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View Full Version : Brake, Traction Control, EPS, and ABS lights on Dash


ncos
04-22-2019, 12:40 PM
So yesterday, about 2 hours into a drive, the four above lights lit on my dash. I searched around and found lots of references to Traction/EPS/ABS lights, but nothing about the Brake light also being lit. Based on what I did find, I parked with the truck running and attempted to use an 802 (still learning). I wasn't able to find any codes. I did find the following in "event memory":
P1926 Stored&Current "CAN communication is faulty"
P1925 Stored&Current "CAN Fault - The brake torque is implausible"
513A Stored&Current "Valve Relay"

Depressed brake pedal and verified brake lights came on when depressed and off when released.

Turned it off, restarted, those lights still lit
Repeated 2x to see if cleared, which they did

Drove about 3 min, all for lights came back on

I was able to connect to the EPS (while driving) via the 802 which gave proper readings on all wheel speed sensors.

After another 4 min of driving, all lights went off and stayed off for the remainder of the trip.

Anything I should be looking for or worried about?

Nate

autostaretx
04-22-2019, 06:53 PM
From the "complete fault code" book: ( http://www.diysprinter.co.uk/reference/T1N_CompleteSprinterFaultCodeGuide.pdf )
513A Inspect fuse F7, wiring, or ESP [CAB) control unit {A2) fault

(ESP: electronic stability package, CAB: controller anti-lock brakes)

and:
1925 000 CAN signal: Brake torque value
Brake torque value is implausible
a. Inspect CAN-Bus wiring for fault.
b. Brake/Traction control unit may have fault codes present.
c. If ABS/ASR or ESP [CAB) control unit has fault codes, correct problems there first

... so i'd say that the 1925 is a consequence of the 513A (it's the ECU echoing what the brakes are saying)

And, as they both hint: check the wiring harnesses for damage

--dick

outbound
04-22-2019, 10:07 PM
check the engine main harness where it dives below the fuel filter.
cut off the tiewraps that hold it to the mounting pad
and lift it up off the mount pad, look under the loom in that area.
(thats where mine was chafed-thru, causing all sorts of codes, turbo issues, etc)


:2cents:
:cheers:

ncos
04-23-2019, 12:52 AM
Ok...a few stupid questions (since I don't have access to the van tonight and can only obsess over this):

1. When I tried to access the ABS system with the autel, it said it couldn't communicate. I chalked that up to the fact that my sprinter has ESP (which I could communicate with). So just to make sure, if I have ESP, it would be normal that I couldn't communicate with an ABS module right? Just want to verify that is not a symptom related to this issue.

2. Where is fuse F7? Is there a decoder that would map F7 to a specific fuse on a specific fuse block (which is what I'm used to seeing in the manuals)?

3. Is there a document that points out were the various control modules are physically in the Van? I know where the TCM, ECM, Shift are...but not the ABS/ESP.

4. I will note that I did check the wiring harness behind the fuel filter recently, but I didn't go as far was clipping the ties and looking under it...I saw that it couldn't touch the filter bracket sharpies and assumed I was ok. Off.

5. The following post also looks very relevant. It has all the same indications and three of the same codes (it took me a minute to figure out that EBV means the "BRAKE" light on the cluster). https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43649

Nautamaran
04-23-2019, 01:45 AM
1. Yes. You’ll have ABS or ESP, but not both.
2. Don’t know where F7 is...
3. There is a map of connectors and grounds at the end of section 8W of the service manual:
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf
4.5. (no comment)

The ESP is integrated into the ABS hydroelectric controller, which is physically attached to the ABS unit below the start battery.
It is grounded to the chassis, and the front chassis grounds are known to cause headlight and other issues, so I would start by disassembling, cleaning, greasing, and reassembling the ground lugs.

-dave

autostaretx
04-23-2019, 03:17 AM
F7 is one of those three horizontal fuses on the lower left of this photo:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=770&pictureid=4852

(i'm going to guess it's the red-colored 7.5 amp one in the middle) <-- edited (see next line)

All three of the fuses labeled "anti-lock brakes" in that photo are tied in with the ABS/ESP.

Specifically, F7 is a (by the book) 25 amp fuse, so it is the clear-colored one.
F6 is 7.5 amps, F9 is 40 amps (the vertical one).

Per page 8W-35-5 in the 2006 service manual (http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf) Dave pointed at.

--dick

ncos
04-24-2019, 02:08 AM
Ok...so I spent some time with the vehicle this evening:

1. Wiring harness behind fuel filter fully inspected, SAT. Re-secured with zip ties.
2. Fuse F7 checked with Multimeter (per code book), SAT (even when wiggled). All other ABS fuses SAT.
3. Unplugged ABS/ESP harness, looked clean and dry with bright copper terminals on the ABS/ESP module.

From here I (generally) followed the Body Diagnostic Manual for "No Response From Controller Antilock Brake":
1. Continuity from two ground connections in ABS/ESP harness to battery ground SAT, even when wiggling G100/302.
2. Continuity from Power to two B+ sources in ABS/ESP harness SAT.
3. CAN H to CAN L resistance 60 ohms (SAT) - I don't know were the two CAN termination 120 ohm resistors are (like which modules provide the termination), but this suggest decent CAN connectivity to those modules. (in hindsight I should have checked CAN to ground perhaps)
4. K-ABS/SHIFTER to Ground 67K ohms (SAT) (diagnostic calls for more than 5 ohms)
5. Test light (12V LED) from K-ABS/SHIFTER to Batt Ground lit with Ignition ON (MAYBE SAT). Diagnostic says it must be lit brightly, and says compare to B+ to ground brightness. It was not as bright. But it is an LED so its voltage/illumination curve is not the same as an incandescent. I measured voltage from K-ABS/SHIFTER to Batt Ground and got 10.8v. Not sure what to make of these findings. Any help from the K-line crackers?
6. Measured K-ABS/SHIFTER to DLC (OBDII port) and got zero ohms (SAT).

Diagnostic Manual would say replace ABS Controller. Oof.

Just to cover all bases:
Removed nuts from ground G100 and 302...sanded chassis terminal, nuts, and ring terminals shiny, retorqued, and applied a healthy coat of grease over them.

Started Vehicle:
Had same four lights and MIL lit
Stored Codes:
ESP 51F3 “Cable Lateral Acceleration Sensor”
ESP 513A “Valve Relay” (not sure I ever cleared codes from this weekend)
ECM 2043-1 code for Camshaft is from recent injector leakoff test
ECM 2209-1 code from ABS is probably from fact that ABS was unplugged during testing while key on (and why MIL lit)

All lights went out. Drove it for a few minutes...gave it some hard braking that maybe would have activated ABS...don't know how to tell.

Stopped, messed with Autel 802...and noticed same four lights back on. Then I noticed a "click" and all four lights when out.

Ultimately figured out that as soon as I access ESP with the 802, those four lights turn on. As soon as I escape the ESP menu, the lights turn off...and there is an audible click from maybe the instrument cluster. IS THIS NORMAL?

The Autel thing explains why they likely came on while driving the second time this weekend because I was looking at wheel speed data while driving to see if normal. I just didn't put it together then.

I also noticed that when I go to start the vehicle, all the dash lights come on as part of the "light test", but the ABS/ESP/Traction and MIL remain on and extinguish only after the vehicle has started running..Is that normal?

Any help on the K-line voltage, the Autel causing the lights to come on, or any other things I should be looking at would greatly appreciated! I don't know what else to do and don't know if I should be worried. We got stranded over thanksgiving due to an allegedly bad shifter that also included these lights on. It was very EXPENSIVE dollar-wise and emotion-wise. This weekend was the first time I'd seen them come on since.

BGerker
04-24-2019, 02:40 AM
Be sure you have proper bulbs in the tail lights. My 04 had those 4 lights coming on a few times every week until I replaced all tail light, brake and reverse light bulbs. The lights have come on maybe 5 times since (7 months). It is probably not necessary to replace ALL bulbs, but after reading many posts I was trying to prove without question "My lights all work perfectly. This won't help!". I was wrong, apparently.

Nautamaran
04-24-2019, 03:54 AM
The K-Line bus uses a 510 ohm pull-up resistor, so a higher wattage test lamp would be a bit dimmer than if connected to B+. An LED may not show significantly less brightness?
I’m surprised the CAB provides this pull-up as all the doc’s I’ve read imply that the tester node should provide it, though that’s not explicitly stated.

-dave

vanski
04-24-2019, 04:36 AM
:thinking: isn't this the common 'pull the brake light switch and you're back in business' issue?

ncos
04-24-2019, 12:21 PM
:thinking: isn't this the common 'pull the brake light switch and you're back in business' issue?

I'm not smart enough to know. When I looked at all of those cases on the forum I never found any that had the "BRAKE" light illuminated on the instrument cluster. So that appears to be one difference.

By 'pull' do you mean reset the switch or remove and replace?

vanski
04-24-2019, 02:00 PM
Perhaps it’s a combination of things. It’s been a little while since I’ve come across this, but I think I remember the brake lights doing something weird when this happens. Does your cruise control work? I know when this happens the cc stops working. Here’s (https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6379) a write up by AP walking you through how to adjust it. Only takes a minute so perhaps it’s worth a shot??

autostaretx
04-24-2019, 09:28 PM
Ultimately figured out that as soon as I access ESP with the 802, those four lights turn on. As soon as I escape the ESP menu, the lights turn off...and there is an audible click from maybe the instrument cluster. IS THIS NORMAL?
Plugging in a DAD also lights up bunches of the tally lights.
I haven't bothered to see which ones fire up for which tests/readouts, but they do come on during scanning.

So i'll vote for "Yes, it's normal"

--dick

rvnw
04-29-2019, 04:09 PM
Yes, it totally normal for the lights to light up. Sounds simple but have you cleaned the fuses and fuse holders for all the brake power lines? I used some high grit sand paper I had 220 grit. There are 3 power lines to the ABS module on my van, a 7.5A fuse, a 25A fuse and a 40A fuse I cleaned all of them. It might help. Let us know how things go.