Help! My 06 T1N is dead :(

So here's the story. I bought an '06 Sprinter 2500 140WB High Top in 2012 for my growing family. We're now at 7 kids, and my wife and me, 9 total, for now
We bought the van with 154k on it and it now has ~265k on it. Unfortunately the van died on Wednesday, 1/30, due to the cam gear breaking.
The question now is, what to do with the dead '06 and what is the best next Sprinter for us. We really love Sprinters as we travel from Philly to central Florida at least 2x a year. I know the T1N is the best engine, despite my cam gear break, but I'd like to upgrade to a newer version. I want to stay away from the DPF and Blue Tec systems, and have heard that the 2007 was the worst due to it being the first generation of the new design.
Looking for thought from the Forum
Thanks all!!
I'm happy to answer questions

xyenon said:

So here's the story. I bought an '06 Sprinter 2500 140WB High Top in 2012 for my growing family. We're now at 7 kids, and my wife and me, 9 total, for now
We bought the van with 154k on it and it now has ~265k on it. Unfortunately the van died on Wednesday, 1/30, due to the cam gear breaking.
The question now is, what to do with the dead '06 and what is the best next Sprinter for us. We really love Sprinters as we travel from Philly to central Florida at least 2x a year. I know the T1N is the best engine, despite my cam gear break, but I'd like to upgrade to a newer version. I want to stay away from the DPF and Blue Tec systems, and have heard that the 2007 was the worst due to it being the first generation of the new design.
Looking for thought from the Forum
Thanks all!!
I'm happy to answer questions

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Sorry for the heart attack..

in my process of looking for my Van, i saw at least two flip vans (snow Minnesota) that obviously they where running at the time of the crash, around a $1000 for the whole van, i have to confess I almost purchase a passenger one with all the windows in good shape and like 170.000 miles.

Like with everything I'm sure somebody has a business of selling parts and engines.. No YDM I presume)

The way I see it at least you know the van you have now (for good or bad) instead of buying a complete other one that you have no clue about..

Sorry to hear you have this major problem.

xyenon said:

... I want to stay away from the DPF and Blue Tec systems, and have ...

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Transit with petrol engine?

What condition is the T1N in overall? It may be worth paying for a remanufactured engine to be installed by a competent shop.

It will be cheaper than a new vehicle and should extend the years of reliable service.

Good luck.

vic

If looking for used it is more about finding a good one of most any model year, than looking for a particular year.

If you can find a 2007 or 2008 with manifold replacement completed (read about swirl valve), or with GDE tune installed, these can be totally trouble free and run for a long time.

The DPF provides a soot-free exhaust, is very reliable up to 200 k miles as long as you use the correct oil and put on a few highway miles, and is relatively inexpensive to replace if it fails, son don't necessarily eliminate those models from your search.

2009 still had no DEF, but GDE does not provide a tune for those for some reason

2010 and up have the DEF tank and Nox sensors and 10 start limit if any of this isn't working, all of which were very troublesome and expensive to repair in the earlier models. If you find a good used in the 2010 to 2014 range, make sure nox sensors have been recently replaced, and that there are no codes applicable to the DEF system. Some owners will tell you they have had good reliability once that is done.

More recent models might still have warranty coverage on the emissions systems, so less risky that way

No simple easy answers, I am afraid...

MillionMileSprinter is in your neck of the woods. Perhaps he has a good take-out for installation?

If u like the van, just get a quality rebuilt engine dropped in. For later model Sprinters I believe the 4 cyl Sprinters with the 7 speed box 2014-2017? are the best packages out there, but they are still very pricey. I kind of want a LWB high top van, so I’ll be keeping my eyes open for one of those, but really, a good T1N is a hard wearing rig, and a quality rebuilt engine is a comforting thing.

xyenon said:

Unfortunately the van died on Wednesday, 1/30, due to the cam gear breaking.

The question now is, what to do with the dead '06 and what is the best next Sprinter for us.

I'm happy to answer questions

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Why would you think that there needs to be a "next" Sprinter?

A lot of people in your situation go from the frying pan into the fire, by not repairing their current vehicle.

If the current Sprinter is the right size and shape for you, just put a remanufactured engine in it and move on.

Look at it this way- the moment before your cam gear broke, your Sprinter was worth thousands of dollars. With a broken engine, it's worthless. So on top of any other expenses, you'd be walking away from thousands of dollars if you don't fix your current van.

In addition to that, your current van has already depreciated about as much as it's ever going to- in running condition, it's never going to be worth much less than it would be today. So it's not costing you anything in depreciation.

It's also not costing you any interest on a car loan.

Plus, if you buy another van with 2-1/2 spins on the odometer, you could very well be paying good money to put yourself back in the exact position you were in the moment before your cam gear broke.

I want to try to stay with a Diesel engine due to amount of traveling we do. I have test driven a Ford Transit XLT High Top; I wasn't impressed.

I have considered replacing the engine, but it looks like the cost will run between $5k - $10k+. With that cost it seems best to put that $$ into another van, something newer. I'd also like to get one with heat to the passenger cabin, not just A/C.

xyenon said:

I have considered replacing the engine, but it looks like the cost will run between $5k - $10k+.

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Yes. A remanufactured engine will cost as much as a used 250,000 mile engine (wrapped in a van just like yours) with an unknown history.

With that cost it seems best to put that $$ into another van,

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Why? So you can lose more money?

something newer.

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I can assure you, that the engine in any used van you buy isn't going to be "newer" than a remanufactured engine installed in your current van.

Do the math, buddy- don't shoot yourself in the foot on this.

xyenon said:

... I'd also like to get one with heat to the passenger cabin, not just A/C.

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That's a minor stumbling block.
There are many aux heater units. A couple Tee's, some hose, power from the interior light circuit (change to LED interior lamps), and Bob's your uncle.

I like the looks of this unit. It's fairly compact and seems to have decent vent direction options.

DC Auxiliary Heater,12V,10A,30W,9-7/8inH MARADYNE 4000-12V
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Auxiliary-Heater-12V-10A-30W-9-7-8inH-MARADYNE-4000-12V-/382203966846

vic

I agree, certainly not looking to lose $ in all of this. However, there are other nagging issues with our '06 and though it's been holding it's own, we have also been putting more $ into it recently. We just replaced all the glow plugs and the control module in early 2018, and it looks like we might need to do it again as the code is back on.
We have considered moving out of this one before and now it seems that the opportunity has come.

xyenon said:

I agree, certainly not looking to lose $ in all of this. However, there are other nagging issues with our '06 and though it's been holding it's own, we have also been putting more $ into it recently. We just replaced all the glow plugs and the control module in early 2018, and it looks like we might need to do it again as the code is back on.
We have considered moving out of this one before and now it seems that the opportunity has come.

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EVERY used vehicle that is being offered for sale, is being offered for sale for reasons like what you just listed. You're not going to dodge the maintenance/repair bullet by jumping from this used van to another used van. You're simply going to spend as much as a new engine would have cost you, for the privilege of purchasing someone else's past-due maintenance and repair bills. Why do that? You already have your own maintenance and repair bills, and you got them for free.

The reason that other vehicles are being offered for sale, is not because the previous owner somehow just "sensed" that at this particular point in time, that you were going to want to purchase a well cared-for used Sprinter at a fair price. They're doing the same exact thing you are- they've neglected it to the point that they don't trust it, and are afraid to continue owning it, so they're trying to make it someone else's problem.

I fix a few of these sprocket failures.
Essentially the spokes of the exhaust cam wheel sheer and the valves get whacked. The engine stops !

Fixing it is a tear out and engine dismantle.
The head is usually recoverable maybe with some new valve guides.
Replace valves as required.
All timing components and cams get tossed in the trash.
Pistons checked for any crown damage and the rods checked for bend.

Depending upon severity of wear and damage to the job comes out at about $5000 to $6000 turn key and ready for at least another 500,000 miles.
Dennis

The Grand Tour said:

EVERY used vehicle that is being offered for sale, is being offered for sale for reasons like what you just listed. You're not going to dodge the maintenance/repair bullet by jumping from this used van to another used van. You're simply going to spend as much as a new engine would have cost you, for the privilege of purchasing someone else's past-due maintenance and repair bills. Why do that? You already have your own maintenance and repair bills, and you got them for free.

The reason that other vehicles are being offered for sale, is not because the previous owner somehow just "sensed" that at this particular point in time, that you were going to want to purchase a well cared-for used Sprinter at a fair price. They're doing the same exact thing you are- they've neglected it to the point that they don't trust it, and are afraid to continue owning it, so they're trying to make it someone else's problem.

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This is a grossly pessimistic generalization, and simply not true at all. If this is what you think about buying "EVERY used vehicle" you just don't know what you're talking about.

Matt Foley said:

This is a grossly pessimistic generalization, and simply not true at all. If this is what you think about buying "EVERY used vehicle" you just don't know what you're talking about.

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Wow, when you're wrong, you sure go big!

I was born into the car business.

Regarding vehicle repair in general, I have decades of very successful experience. I have been factory-trained by more manufacturers than I could count off the top of my head, and have been certified in multiple areas. My customer satisfaction scores have easily placed me in the top 1% in the nation, and have resulted in me being appointed to a major manufacturer's National Advisory Board.

Regarding vehicles changing hands specifically, I have anecdotal experience beyond description. PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspections) on countless vehicles brought to me from elsewhere, as well as UVI (Used Vehicle Inspections) and recon (reconditioning) on every used car taken in on trade. There is ALWAYS a reason, and I have a VERY sharp eye when it comes to finding these reasons.

xyenon, I will argue with Dennis all day long over political ideologies, but if he thinks this is the way to go for your Sprinter, he is one of the VERY few people that I would trust to do it:

lindenengineering said:

I fix a few of these sprocket failures.
Essentially the spokes of the exhaust cam wheel sheer and the valves get whacked. The engine stops !

Fixing it is a tear out and engine dismantle.
The head is usually recoverable maybe with some new valve guides.
Replace valves as required.
All timing components and cams get tossed in the trash.
Pistons checked for any crown damage and the rods checked for bend.

Depending upon severity of wear and damage to the job comes out at about $5000 to $6000 turn key and ready for at least another 500,000 miles.
Dennis

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The Grand Tour said:

EVERY used vehicle that is being offered for sale, is being offered for sale for reasons like what you just listed. You're not going to dodge the maintenance/repair bullet by jumping from this used van to another used van. You're simply going to spend as much as a new engine would have cost you, for the privilege of purchasing someone else's past-due maintenance and repair bills. Why do that? You already have your own maintenance and repair bills, and you got them for free.

The reason that other vehicles are being offered for sale, is not because the previous owner somehow just "sensed" that at this particular point in time, that you were going to want to purchase a well cared-for used Sprinter at a fair price. They're doing the same exact thing you are- they've neglected it to the point that they don't trust it, and are afraid to continue owning it, so they're trying to make it someone else's problem.

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I basically agree with this summation. There are a few exceptions of course, estate sales, bankruptcy liquidation sales, companies selling off vehicles they can’t right off anymore etc...
Still a used vehicle engine is always a crap shoot ( other than the na Volvo B21-B23 engines,those are ridiculously robust and hard wearing), one just doesn’t know previous maintenance and use /abuse. That is why I like rebuilding or having a quality rebuilt engine in my rides.

Patrick of M said:

I basically agree with this summation. There are a few exceptions of course, estate sales, bankruptcy liquidation sales, companies selling off vehicles they can’t right off anymore etc...

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Maybe. It is good to remember, that just because someone died, does not mean that they took good care of their vehicle. And if someone went bankrupt, it's just about guaranteed that they didn't take care of their vehicle. And companies are usually more preoccupied with bringing money in, than spending it on bringing the maintenance current on a vehicle that they're about to dump anyways.

I once purchased a used '95 Ford pickup with over 100,000 miles, from a large fleet. I bought it for next to nothing, because they thought it had a six-cylinder engine, but it actually had a V8. They swore it had been maintained regularly at a particular Ford dealership (that I used to work at). I went to the Ford dealer, and found that it had never been there- ever. I went home and dropped the transmission pan to service the transmission, and it still had the original "cherry" laying in the bottom of the pan- it had never been serviced in over 100,000 miles.

Still a used vehicle engine is always a crap shoot, one just doesn’t know previous maintenance and use /abuse. That is why I like rebuilding or having a quality rebuilt engine in my rides.

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Yup.

I believe there are a lot of car owners who sell or trade simply because they would like to have the latest newest, or a bit bigger or some other reason unrelated to the condition of or problems with their trade. In this respect, if you can find used at the MB dealer, it means somebody traded for another one, so they probably were reasonably happy with the previous one.

This may be a bit less prevalent with commercial vehicles where owners are bit more pragmatic, and sell when it starts costing money. Even they may not actually be any good at predicting whether additional repairs are actually required soon or not.

Furthermore, even buying new can be a bit of a crapshoot if you happen to get a lemon or similar species. True, the dealer pays for most repairs but the hassle and downtime can be a huge pain in the butt.

Lowest cost option in the long run is usually to buy used, after getting a thorough inspection, negotiate on that basis, fix what it needs, and look after it.

I bought my first Sprinter T1N (Vista RV) from someone who just got too old to drive it anymore - a 2004 with only 70k miles and I would recommend that you follow the advice from Dennis and others to fix/replace the engine you have unless you have the $$$ to go big! As mentioned, another used "newer" sprinter is a crapshoot! So unless you go over the vehicle carefully and can do most of the routine work yourself, I would go the repair route.