Front Struts and Alignment

I can be dense at times so please bear with me.

Both of my T1N's have lower A arms or wishbones with a mounted ball joint.

There is a transverse spring that bears against the suspension frames (A arm).

The front "struts" have no integrated spring. They don't contain a pivot bearing. They appear to be a shock absorber to me. There are no suspension springs which need to be disturbed during a T1N front strut change.

I think that I understand how a front strut change can affect camber.

I don't understand how changing the front "shock absorbers" can affect toe and caster. The lower A arm position and ball joint doesn't get disturbed at all.

vic

Aqua Puttana said:

I can be dense at times so please bear with me.

Both of my T1N's have lower A arms or wishbones with a mounted ball joint.

There is a transverse spring that bears against the suspension frames (A arm).

The front "struts" have no integrated spring. They don't contain a pivot bearing. They appear to be a shock absorber to me. There are no suspension springs which need to be disturbed during a T1N front strut change.

I think that I understand how a front strut change can affect camber.

I don't understand how changing the front "shock absorbers" can affect toe and caster. The lower A arm position and ball joint doesn't get disturbed at all.

vic

Click to expand...

If the resting length of the replacement/new strut is different, it will affect the caster. If the caster changes, it affects the toe as one of its axis is changing.

Aqua Puttana said:

I can be dense at times so please bear with me.

Both of my T1N's have lower A arms or wishbones with a mounted ball joint.

There is a transverse spring that bears against the suspension frames (A arm).

The front "struts" have no integrated spring. They don't contain a pivot bearing. They appear to be a shock absorber to me. There are no suspension springs which need to be disturbed during a T1N front strut change.

I think that I understand how a front strut change can affect camber.

I don't understand how changing the front "shock absorbers" can affect toe and caster. The lower A arm position and ball joint doesn't get disturbed at all.

vic

Click to expand...

the struts fulcrum/pivot point is above the the tie rod; so moving the wheel camber in or out ..will at the same time move the wheels toe out or in.
If the pivot was the same height location as the tie rod connection, there wouldn't be a change in the toe

Capeesh

Vic
Two things.
If you retain the top mounts the upper & lower can take a "set" overtime and distort . Disturbing them during shock absorber or shall I state "strut" replacement can affect camber & possibly toe.

Again the fixed eye twin plate mounting flanges welded to the strut body & engage with the knuckle will have a tolerance or fixed inclination upon mass production & therefore might be a degrees or so different from what was on the rig previously. More importantly perhaps what the steering was set to before a major component was replaced.
On TIN's the steering geometry is changed / achieved by shims up to 1,5 degrees or 1,5 to 3,00 degrees respectively . Napa sells them.
(The 3 degrees of course are shims not Motown black girl singers of the 1960's !!)
Dennis

Typing while other replies were posted...

OrioN said:

If the resting length of the replacement/new strut is different, it will affect the caster. If the caster changes, it affects the toe as one of its axis is changing.

Click to expand...

I basically get that.

The front strut is a single point at the top which can "settle" in the mount. The lower mount is a fixed structure. It all needs to achieve a straight alignment.

But isn't it the front spring that sets the "resting" position? Shocks aren't intended to have working bump stops/travel limits are they?

That said, if the T1N front struts have a stop of some sort, maybe that is why they are called struts and not shocks.

Thanks for the reply.

vic

Aqua Puttana said:

Typing while other replies were posted...


I basically get that.

The front strut is a single point at the top which can "settle" in the mount. The lower mount is a fixed structure. It all needs to achieve a straight alignment.

But isn't it the front spring that sets the "resting" position? Shocks aren't intended to have working bump stops/travel limits are they?

That said, if the T1N front struts have a stop of some sort, maybe that is why they are called struts and not shocks.

Thanks for the reply.

vic

Click to expand...

If they were straight up shocks, it would be moot. But they are struts and load bearing, working in tandem with the transverse spring.

Thanks for all of the information. I think that I get it now.

For any DIY types stumbling upon this thread...

A possible DIY alternative to proper alignment. Thanks goes to Cvollmar.

Cvollmar said:

We use a very hi tech method when we change front shocks. We spray paint the the end of the shock where it bolts to the hub. When we put the new one on you line it up with the paint marks. Pretty primitive and not the correct way by any means but it gets them close enough for fleet service. We get no wear to speak of from the front tires anyway so it doesn't really matter. We also change lots of the "lifetime" ball joints. In fleet service they are definitely not life time!

Click to expand...

I have used a grease needle on both my 2004 and 2006 ball joints. So far so good.

vic

Movement of the bolts have very little affect on alignment on T1Ns. There is a fair bit of variance between struts, and various brands. So up to 1 degree of camber change is possible. Changing camber will change your toe slightly. A google for camber checking tools will show some simple to make home jigs. Just check camber before/after replacement. A change of 1/2 degree total (left+right) would suggest an alignment. Remember to include the sign (+ or -) in the addition, as adding 1/4 degree to one side, and subtracting it from the other would not change total toe.

I guess this may be a slightly different view but, compared to the cost of front struts, the cost of alignment --at a competent, independent dealer--is chump change. I've tried to synch front struts with tires (tires 30-40, struts 60-80) and alignment always follows.

edfrompa said:

I guess this may be a slightly different view but, compared to the cost of front struts, the cost of alignment --at a competent, independent dealer--is chump change. I've tried to synch front struts with tires (tires 30-40, struts 60-80) and alignment always follows.

Click to expand...

If only it were so straightforward. I've read too many stories about "qualified" shops, including dealerships, that have botched Sprinter alignments. That is even when they possessed the proper equipment/special tools. Tools. Depending upon who is wielding it, a hammer can be a tool... or just another weapon.

If my truck handles well, and the tires are wearing evenly, I'll take my chances on not having an alignment vs someone screwing up my ride. We do have required annual safety inspections in New York State. I believe in annual safety inspections by the way. There have been some suspension components which I have replaced.

The Sprinters that I own have yet to be presented to the general staff of any dealership for service. I plan to keep it that way as long as possible. (I did at one time have a talented trusted friend who worked for Dodge, now retired.)

Everyone here has their own ideas and budget as to maintaining their vehicles.

vic

OrioN said:

But they are struts and load bearing, working in tandem with the transverse spring.

Click to expand...

I just received Bilsteins for my 2006. they are not sprung in any way. You can push/pull them by hand. I do not perceive any upward lift at all, only damping. Rear shocks were much more stubborn to compress for installation.

lindenengineering said:

(The 3 degrees of course are shims not Motown black girl singers of the 1960's !!)
Dennis

Click to expand...

Am I the only other person who got that? (Just watched 'The French Connection')

mountainhick said:

I just received Bilsteins for my 2006. they are not sprung in any way. You can push/pull them by hand. I do not perceive any upward lift at all, only damping. Rear shocks were much more stubborn to compress for installation.

Click to expand...

Right, I was thinking the same thing. Damping only from what I can see. I put KYB's on the front of my '05 2500 and I noticed no alignment "change" to speak of. It was a bit darty over 65-70 mph on crowned blacktop, and still is now. MuchlLess noticeable on concrete. But the bouncy front end is gone, and I'm happy with the kdb's.

When I did the rear shocks I threaded the top bolts, then put the bolts through the shock lowers, cut the plastic band from the manufacturer, and while the shock was rebounding you can thread the bolt in the lower mounts easy enough.

There is no upper ‘A’ arm, the strut does dual duty of damper and location.

I prefer the ‘damper’ term over ‘shock’.

REPLACE the strut mount bushing when you do new struts they arent that much

Still loving my $80 strut and shock set i got on ebay, sensen brand, cant go wrong, rides way better but i did have one blown stock mercedes branded strut at 180k miles

they really should all be $80 as said in above posts they really are just shocks.

My kdb's were $86 each. Parts geek. All 4 corners got them. I think they were all original stockers all the way around. Little to no damping left in them at 195K.

3yrs later my senson brand generic struts are still good as new. Dont be fooled by these $250 each struts, they are really just shocks on these anyway.