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kitesurfer
11-21-2018, 08:11 AM
Hi All.
Thought i'd share this success story in case anyone else has a similar issue.
I have a MK1 412d sprinter. Last 3 years or so its been suffering intermittent power loss during acceleration or under load.
Classic turbo boost pressure loss or fuel starvation issues i hear you say. Not so. None of the other usual internet search suspects either.
It was a faulty MAP sensor. No fault codes registering. The issue got steadily worse over the 3 years (more frequent) until it was unbearable. I'm guessing the MAP sensor was just throwing out false voltage readings and fooling the ecu into thinking the pressure in the manifold was different to what it actually was and then telling the IP to fuel for an incorrect pressure.
New sensor and the vans driving better than ever :bounce:
It took so long by the way to find the issue as it was initially very intermittent and i just put up with it and also there was an issue with my IP housing that was creating other issues.

KS

outbound
11-21-2018, 05:05 PM
we always like to read about successful fixes! (and why they worked)

DesertAdventures
11-21-2018, 05:21 PM
Congrats and thanks for sharing in hopes it helps others! :thumbup: Glad to see you successfully got your lines untangled! *fellow kiter that hopes to have van converted and running "better than ever" someday also.

Aqua Puttana
11-21-2018, 05:41 PM
...
I have a MK1 412d sprinter. Last 3 years or so its been suffering intermittent power loss during acceleration or under load.
...
New sensor and the vans driving better than ever :bounce:
It took so long by the way to find the issue as it was initially very intermittent and i just put up with it and also there was an issue with my IP housing that was creating other issues.

KS
Thanks for the info. :thumbup:

People often expect to see DTC's. That isn't always the case.

Do you recall any specifics with the symptoms? Engine hot? Engine cold? Ambient temps hot/cold?

I'm blank on what a IP housing is. :thinking:

:cheers: vic

Nautamaran
11-21-2018, 06:03 PM
IP = “injector pump”

Thanks for the report!
I’m also curious of the accompanying symptoms?

-dave

kitesurfer
11-22-2018, 07:48 AM
Symptoms.

Only happened once engine was up to temperature.
Most of the time it would manifest itself going up a long incline. A drop off in power that felt like fuel starvation. I would always lift on the throttle during these times as i was expecting it to go into limp mode, which it didn't.
Other times it would occur after sitting stationary at lights or a roundabout (not sure you have these stateside ;)) when i would go to pull away. In these scenarios the loss of power felt like limp mode as it would stay for a pro longed period of time but then after a period of time (sometimes 10 mins) it would clear by itself without me turning off the engine.
At times i thought it was going into limp mode, so i would turn the engine off and back on. Sometimes full power returned and other times it did not.
It all seemed very random to be honest.

IP housing, see attached photo, my naming of it maybe off it might be known as something else.

KS

Aqua Puttana
11-22-2018, 02:41 PM
Thanks for the details. :thumbup:

For clarity.
The MAP sensor replaced was the one mounted in the black plastic hose joiner housing, not a sensor mounted in the air box?

Injector Fuel Pump Housing

104166
Part # A 602 070 03 17

:cheers: vic

lindenengineering
11-22-2018, 03:25 PM
IP = “injector pump”

Thanks for the report!
I’m also curious of the accompanying symptoms?

-dave

Well Dave /Guys
This derivative is a rare beast to find in N/A and only found a mid 90's Benz cars.
Even then the injector pump would have been a inline jerk style pump for NA specs as opposed the "electronic influenced" Bosch VP distributor style pump which you will find glimpses of in the following video. So its a Eurocentric engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHWZzViQk60



Repair events to the FIE and drive ability represent challenges for anyone who has one of these engines in grey market vehicles. In 20 years I have only seen two with rotary VP style electronic pumps both installed in G wagon .
Both had drive ability issues similar as the OP's post.

For pump repairs there is /or was only one Bosch FIE shop that would touch it in NA. That being in Oregon.
Even then they didn't have the test plan and Bosch wouldn't release that test plan to non Euro pump shops. To overcome that small issue I got my brother who has a shop in Gloucester to purloin a plan from a Bristol based FIE pump shop. Getting that plan over the the US was the simplest part of the repair exercise.

The second incidence I simply shipped the pump over to the UK and had it repaired there.

In any case although the engine management electronics are simple compared with the NA Sprinter range diagnostics presents a chore because of lack of product info again being Eurocentric.

Digressing a bit I did have a 1982 307D in the shop for engine issues, having what would be the old 240 4 cylinder engine in it, now known as the 616 series. I delivered it back to the customer only last week !
Although a grey market import MB USA did have parts in New Jersey available and things like a radiator rebuild I got done at Serck Services. The job was a 90 day turn around & not like spare parts ready NA Sprinters that you can make roadworthy within a week tops .
I suppose the most comical reaction is to my young guys trying to grasp the method & reasoning of olde worlde spill timing the in line injector pump.
Black magic, & its total funk was mentioned and in any case the repair methods and procedures were for me a trip back down memory lane of the 1970's.

In short you have to have plenty of grey hair & special pump tools lurking about in my fine English leather brass bound buggery box to fix it.
I even have a genuine MB service manual in paper and a binder about 4" thick that covers all the MB car repair techniques/specs etc (including gasoline engines.) which I stopped my daughter throwing out after a shop cleaning secretary's organization fit ! As I opened it all the moths flew out even the binder creaked, it had been on the shop shelf for so long without being touched.! :laughing:
Moral of this story --Don't throw anything away--you never know who will roll in the shop forecourt with something rare that needs fixing!
Dennis

Midwestdrifter
11-22-2018, 10:16 PM
Sensor failures like this are a very good reason to use live data viewing for diagnostic purposes. A trained/experienced person could watch the live data compared to turbo noise, and would have noticed the lack of turbo spool vs the high MAP reading.

kitesurfer
11-23-2018, 07:37 AM
Sensor failures like this are a very good reason to use live data viewing for diagnostic purposes. A trained/experienced person could watch the live data compared to turbo noise, and would have noticed the lack of turbo spool vs the high MAP reading.

Agreed. This could have picked this up.
Yes the MAP sensor replaced is the one that sits on the inlet manifold. Not the air box. Its a square box with a vacuum hose attachment and an electrical connector.

KS

kitesurfer
11-23-2018, 07:46 AM
Hi Dennis. That is exactly the engine i have in the video. Same pump and everything.

KS