PDA

View Full Version : Adhesive on Turbo seal?


hoosierrun
10-07-2018, 02:34 PM
I'm working on changing the fuel filter on a 2016 Sprinter V6, 3.0 Diesel on my LTV motorhome. I've read the cautions on changing the turbo seal and I started to do this. I am having a tough time working the seal out of the air tube and after further examination, I see why. The seal has an adhesive on it holding it in to the air tube. Nothing I have read so far indicates that there should be adhesive there. Is this something new? Did a dealer who previously worked on this vehicle put that on (trying to solve for limp mode with no useful codes)? I can probably use pliers and pull that seal out and try cleaning the air tube but I could use some suggestions if anyone knows about this. Thanks in advance.

Jbernielh
10-08-2018, 12:17 AM
my wifes 2010 navion has the orange silicone seal on hers.. there was no way I could get the tube to stay on the turbo.. tried all manner of things and within a 100 miles it would have just slipped right off.. I used an aircraft grade 2 part sealant adhesive and glued the seal into the black plastic tube and haven't looked back.. tube stays on the turbo and and will remove easily enough.. she's put 25K miles on it since and tube hasn't slipped off once..

Bernie

Philip53
10-08-2018, 12:20 AM
I will be changing the fuel filter on my '17 Navion ('16 Sprinter chassis) soon, and I would like to know this as well.

When I was at the Winnebago Grand Rally a few months back, I talked to one of the MB factory service reps that had a display at the show. I specifically asked him about the difficulty in changing the fuel filter and he said it was no problem--that it was easy to get to and I should easily be able to change it myself. Since then I have read cautions about always replacing the turbo inlet hose seal each time it is replaced. And somewhere I also read, or was told that it wasn't necessary to remove the inlet hose from the turbo--that you could simply push/swing it out of the way to get access to the fuel filter.

Anyone out there that has done this on this year model, or has information that could be of assistance? I have done some searching for a reliable video, but have not found one that I thought was knowledgeable enough or one that was specific for the '16 Sprinter V-6.

Mike DZ
10-08-2018, 12:48 AM
Not a '16, but with my '15 V-6, I had to remove the clean air line to get the filter to lift out. Replacing the seal was easy, no adhesive, just push the seal into the clean air line first. The seal profile fits into a groove inside of the clean air line. After the seal is inside of the line, then the assembly is pushed onto the turbo inlet. I had to do a slight rotation c/w cc/w to ease it one, but limited it to a few degrees as I pushed. No problems 10K miles after.

hoosierrun
10-08-2018, 01:04 AM
I will be changing the fuel filter on my '17 Navion ('16 Sprinter chassis) soon, and I would like to know this as well.

When I was at the Winnebago Grand Rally a few months back, I talked to one of the MB factory service reps that had a display at the show. I specifically asked him about the difficulty in changing the fuel filter and he said it was no problem--that it was easy to get to and I should easily be able to change it myself. Since then I have read cautions about always replacing the turbo inlet hose seal each time it is replaced. And somewhere I also read, or was told that it wasn't necessary to remove the inlet hose from the turbo--that you could simply push/swing it out of the way to get access to the fuel filter.

Anyone out there that has done this on this year model, or has information that could be of assistance? I have done some searching for a reliable video, but have not found one that I thought was knowledgeable enough or one that was specific for the '16 Sprinter V-6.



Since I'm already pretty far into it, I can tell you what to do. First, there is no way you can get to the fuel filter without removing the turbo inlet tube on the 2016 3.0 diesel. I read the same as you did and was hoping it would be possible. You will need to purchase the C-clip fuel clamp pliers. I got my pliers from Amazon, but you can do better on E-Bay... Here is the link for Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Astro-9406F-Clic-R-Collar-Pliers/dp/B00MA0KBXE
The pliers turned 1 way release the clip when squeezed and when turned the other way allow you to re-nstall. I felt comfortable re-using the same clips but may change them the next time. Next, you need a t-10 torx socket. 1/4 inch drive would be preferred if you have one.

So, you undo a few connectors on the airbox, remove the incoming air tube (like you were replacing the oil filter), undo the clamp to the turbo inlet, pry up on the airbox grommets, and pull the air box and turbo tube off (you can also undo the turbo tube clamp from the airbox). There is another connector on the turbo tube and you can remove the turbo tube from the breather hose with some effort (barbed plastic, similar to a PCV hose). With that off you can replace the seal in the turbo tube.

There are 3 torx bolts to hold the filter canister in. Don't drop those bolts. Those bolts also cover a couple of clamps on a steel line (see picture). I actually lifted the canister a little before removing the fuel line clamps so I could see how the C-clip pliers work. Remove the 5 pin connector from the top of the filter. You have to remove the vent line from the filter too. There is a small plastic clip that you push a leg (with tiny screwdriver) from behind and just pull on the top to get it out. The new filter should have a new clip for the vent line. Now you have to transfer the clamp that surrounds the fuel filter canister from the old to the new. This requires a allen type bit (I can't remember the size but I use these on my bicycle in a lot of places, like seat adjustment). Pay attention to the orientation of the clamp. You want it on the new filter in the same place as the old filter. Installing the new filter is the reverse. Getting the correct filter number was a challenge because there are a number of types. I guessed wrong initially and had to take mine out, get the part#, and order it. Mine is a Mann WK 820/14. Online is your best bet, either E-Bay or a site called dieselfiltersonline.com. Lowest cost I could find was in the $75 range with shipping and tax. The Turbo seal (black) is currently available at the best price ($31) from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Mercedes-Benz-Sprinter-Compensating-000-094-00-51/dp/B07F3CMN92/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1538960501&sr=1-1&keywords=Genuine+Mercedes+Benz+Sprinter+Turbo+Comp ensating+Ring+000-094-00-51

If you have any questions, just ask. The picture below has the filter removed and is looking into the turbo.

Additional EDIT: I just found out that the steps in my 3rd paragraph above are not necessary. Just use a 5 mm allen key to loosen the clamp that surrounds the filter housing and lift it up. Read further in this thread... and thanks to poster Mikeme for pointing this out.

smiller
10-08-2018, 01:12 AM
I guess they must have moved a lot of stuff around over the years because on the early V6 (maybe pre-SCR?) the fuel filter is easily accessible without removing the turbo inlet pipe. I suppose that's what causes the confusion when some say 'it's easy' and others 'not possible'.

hoosierrun
10-08-2018, 12:05 PM
I guess they must have moved a lot of stuff around over the years because on the early V6 (maybe pre-SCR?) the fuel filter is easily accessible without removing the turbo inlet pipe. I suppose that's what causes the confusion when some say 'it's easy' and others 'not possible'.

It's not terribly difficult other than you have the extra step of removing the turbo inlet hose and replacing that seal. Unfortunately, the new heated filter is expensive and now you add the cost of the seal. Parts exceed $100 but my local dealer charges $250 to replace a fuel filter and they should be done every 30 to 40 thousand miles, depending on type of driving (idling is worst) and quality of fuel (we have little control over that).

I could do it on the road, now that I have done it for the first time.

hoosierrun
10-08-2018, 02:34 PM
I took a picture of the new filter installed but without the turbo inlet hose on. I got the seal out of the tube, but it left a raised portion of adhesive that I can't get off. This may be lead to a potential leak. I never got a response as to whether or not that adhesive is supposed to be on there or not, so I ordered a new air tube with a seal already installed (OEM MB). There is a seller on E-Bay that has the MB product for under $120 shipped. I know this is crazy but I'm not taking any chances... and I will be using my 1/4 inch torque wrench to tighten the clamp.

So my first time changing the filter will cost as much as having it done at the dealership, but I learned a lot and I am confident that I can do as good or possibly a better job than a rushed dealer tech. Next time should go quick and smooth :).

lindenengineering
10-08-2018, 04:18 PM
For the record there is NO adhesive usually used on that adapter sleeve.
Dennis

hoosierrun
10-08-2018, 04:37 PM
For the record there is NO adhesive usually used on that adapter sleeve.
Dennis Thanks Dennis. That helps me justify the purchase of the new air tube. The only place that worked on my vehicle was the Mercedes dealer in Missoula, Montana.... and they were desperate to figure out why my fairly new vehicle was cutting out and going into limp mode. I guarantee they had this hose off since they replaced the complete fuel rail, injectors, plus a lot more. I suspect they put that adhesive on there.

mikeme
10-08-2018, 05:31 PM
I will be changing the fuel filter on my '17 Navion ('16 Sprinter chassis) soon, and I would like to know this as well.

When I was at the Winnebago Grand Rally a few months back, I talked to one of the MB factory service reps that had a display at the show. I specifically asked him about the difficulty in changing the fuel filter and he said it was no problem--that it was easy to get to and I should easily be able to change it myself. Since then I have read cautions about always replacing the turbo inlet hose seal each time it is replaced. And somewhere I also read, or was told that it wasn't necessary to remove the inlet hose from the turbo--that you could simply push/swing it out of the way to get access to the fuel filter.

Anyone out there that has done this on this year model, or has information that could be of assistance? I have done some searching for a reliable video, but have not found one that I thought was knowledgeable enough or one that was specific for the '16 Sprinter V-6.

The last thing you want to do is rotate the intake tube. it needs to come off.

the good advice is to follow the service bulletins, and replace that seal.

the seal needs to go in the tube first, then be placed on the turbo inlet. (and torqued to spec)

I think it is a great idea to replace the tube if there is any doubt. the turbo is pretty expensive, like $6,000 list.


as for added notes, I found it possible to get the fuel filter out by use of a 5mm hex (aka allen) bit to loosen the bracket which holds the filter in place without touching the three external torx nuts

hoosierrun
10-08-2018, 05:51 PM
The last thing you want to do is rotate the intake tube. it needs to come off.

the good advice is to follow the service bulletins, and replace that seal.

the seal needs to go in the tube first, then be placed on the turbo inlet. (and torqued to spec)

I think it is a great idea to replace the tube if there is any doubt. the turbo is pretty expensive, like $6,000 list.


as for added notes, I found it possible to get the fuel filter out by use of a 5mm hex (aka allen) bit to loosen the bracket which holds the filter in place without touching the three external torx nuts

Good idea on just loosening the allen screw. I am going to find a 5 mm allen key and try that the next time. I just looked at it (snapped a picture). I don't think my bit on a ratchet wrench would work, but a 90 degree key would.

Also, I read all your write ups on the terrible fiasco. I want personally thank you for sharing this with the board. Who would have thought that these dangers exist for such a simple thing as a fuel filter change?

EDIT in: Yes indeed the 5 mm allen key fits and works fine. That is a big time saver. Thanks again!

Hooligan2
10-08-2018, 06:14 PM
The last thing you want to do is rotate the intake tube. it needs to come off. the good advice is to follow the service bulletins, and replace that seal.
the seal needs to go in the tube first, then be placed on the turbo inlet. (and torqued to spec)
I think it is a great idea to replace the tube if there is any doubt. the turbo is pretty expensive, like $6,000 list.


Service bulletin video here on forum ...) about damage to seal from twisting Airbox out of the way...
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69906

mikeme
10-08-2018, 06:53 PM
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/417LpWAwjbL._SL1000_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/RED-4S12L-Combination-Stick-Silver/dp/B00DSR50BQ

I used this, with a short 1/4 inch hex drive bit, for the 5mm screw.

I purchased it after a similar recommendation from Dennis regarding the transmission torque converter drain valve.

4wheeldog
10-09-2018, 03:43 PM
I took a picture of the new filter installed but without the turbo inlet hose on. I got the seal out of the tube, but it left a raised portion of adhesive that I can't get off. This may be lead to a potential leak. I never got a response as to whether or not that adhesive is supposed to be on there or not, so I ordered a new air tube with a seal already installed (OEM MB). There is a seller on E-Bay that has the MB product for under $120 shipped. I know this is crazy but I'm not taking any chances... and I will be using my 1/4 inch torque wrench to tighten the clamp.

So my first time changing the filter will cost as much as having it done at the dealership, but I learned a lot and I am confident that I can do as good or possibly a better job than a rushed dealer tech. Next time should go quick and smooth :).

The dealer would have charged you for a new air tube (At list price) if they did it correctly.
So you still saved yourself quite a fair amount of cost.

hoosierrun
10-09-2018, 04:35 PM
The dealer would have charged you for a new air tube (At list price) if they did it correctly.
So you still saved yourself quite a fair amount of cost.

Here is picture of the tube after the seal was removed. I could not come up with a solvent that would soften this residue without also attacking the plastic tube. I may have been able to use a Dremmel tool with the sanding cylinder to cut off the high edges, but I feel like it needs to be done right with a new tube.

manwithgun
10-09-2018, 04:54 PM
I see it as merely an intake tube, where the majority of the sealing is done against the inner seal and the turbo flange. The section in question with adhesive residue is more of a contact area to transfer pressure from the outer mechanical band. It’s not wrong to change the entire inlet tube, but based on pictures alone, I would have probably just reused it.

I recently installed a new tube and seal on my 07 which had always used the orange, softer, more pliable seal. The tube plastic beneath the clamp had started to split, possibly from over tightening. The new, updated tube uses the black seal which is a much harder durometer “rubber”, actually more like plastic. It also has reliefs cut into the tube to allow for compression without deforming. For the first time, I actually used a torque wrench for this installation. I didn’t check whether it was glued in, but remember that it was securely in place.

Bobnoxious
10-09-2018, 05:23 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wYz92CZP7so

hoosierrun
10-09-2018, 05:29 PM
Yikes! the guy in that video really twisted the heck out of the air tube. In addition to destroying the seal, I'm surprised he didn't kink the inlet tube. LOL Thanks for the (almost) comedy video. Got to love the accent too.

My understanding is that you don't need to move it much to create potential damage or splitting of the seal.

Bobnoxious
10-09-2018, 05:52 PM
Yikes! the guy in that video really twisted the heck out of the air tube. In addition to destroying the seal, I'm surprised he didn't kink the inlet tube. LOL Thanks for the (almost) comedy video. Got to love the accent too.

My understanding is that you don't need to move it much to create potential damage or splitting of the seal.

A genuine MB training video I believe b

smiller
10-09-2018, 06:28 PM
Videos like that remind me of why I never let anyone else work on my vehicles.

hoosierrun
10-15-2018, 11:32 PM
For the record there is NO adhesive usually used on that adapter sleeve.
Dennis

I just wanted to mention that there was no adhesive on the seal in the new air tube. I took the seal out and put it back in just to check . Fuel filter job went well and I'm confident the next time will be much easier. Thanks to all who participated in this thread.