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View Full Version : Is this the right oil? Then DEF info.


Giver123
10-04-2018, 10:24 PM
Is this the right oil for sprinter oil change now? Please see picture.

Also how many quarts do I use in my four-cylinder?

Thank you!

http://101715101715

mikeme
10-04-2018, 11:00 PM
that looks right to me.

the owners manual says about 3 gallons, (12 quarts if you do the math)

if you will DIY, put in 11 or 11 and a half and check the dipstick. (warm)


these do not like too much in the crankcase.

Bobnoxious
10-04-2018, 11:06 PM
adjusted photo. Yes, that is the correct oil.

CJPJ
10-04-2018, 11:14 PM
That Con. net. 1L / 1.056 US Qts.

Aqua Puttana
10-05-2018, 12:24 AM
Personally I'd choose an oil that doesn't show a picture of pistons flying off to nowhere.

101726

:cheers: vic

P.S. - The oil is fine. The real purpose of the post was to add a picture that was loaded on Sprinter-source.

Bobnoxious
10-05-2018, 12:27 AM
Personally I'd choose an oil that doesn't show a picture of pistons flying off to nowhere.

101726

:cheers: vic

P.S. - The oil is fine. The real purpose of the post was to add a picture that was loaded on Sprinter-source.

:lol:Just illustrating the eventual results of 20,000 mile OCI's.

Jbernielh
10-05-2018, 12:48 AM
you trying to tweek somebody's tail there Bob? you old sh_t disturber...

Bernie

JFM
10-05-2018, 01:25 AM
229.52.. Yes, that is correct!

sailquik
10-05-2018, 01:29 AM
Bob,
Been using that oil since MB USA moved away from pushing the Mobil One products and decided to
distribute their own brand.
That was probably ~ 150,000 miles ago.......15k OCI per the Owner's Manual and Maintenance Supplement.
I will change my stance on keeping the DEF tank a bit more full (like check it every 1,000 miles or every 15 days).
This is due to the recent replacement of my 2014's DEF tank because the DEF level sensor stopped working and
according to Sun Motor Cars, the DEF level sensor is an integral part of the DEF tank.
~$ 2,150 for the tank and installation.
Sprinter brand manager changed (due to their experience I would guess) his tune from run it until the Low DEF
message appears, then add at least 2 gallons....I use 2.5 gallon kits of Terra Cair Ultra Pure DEF that I'm now
getting from Do It Best hardware.
They ship to the store for free, in nice cardboard cartons the have 2 ea. 2.5 gallon kits.
I also purchased the special MB spec'd DEF bottles that allow me to fill the DEF all the way to very
near the top of the DEF filler.
The fancy bottle screws onto the filler in place of the cap, you press down on the bottle, and it fills until
it gets to the top of the fill pipe.
No spill, no mess.
I refill the MB bottles with the Terra Cair Ultra Pure DEF.
I got the low DEF message, put in my usual 2.5 gallon kit that always took care of resetting
the low DEF message the previous 177,000 miles but it didn't register/reset.
Couple of days later I got the 16 starts countdown.
Topped the DEF tank up with about another 1.5 Gallon of the Genuine MB DEF in the neat
bottles, just to make sure that wasn't the problem.
Got down to 2 starts left when I dropped it an Sun Motor Cars.
Took them one day to change the DEF tank including having the tank shipped in overnight
as they did not have one in stock.
Oh, and I got a sample of the DEF in the tank which I hope to get analyzed, and I have the
removed DEF tank for an autopsy to see what made the level sensor stick or fail.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Bobnoxious
10-05-2018, 01:45 AM
Thank you Rodger, and yes it helps a lot and going transition to MB oil. Did you save the defective tank?

Sprinter SS
10-05-2018, 01:58 AM
I saved the defective tank off my GL 350, took it apart to examine the interior. At 92k it was super clean but the def heater had failed so I replaced whole assembly with oem unit. I see where some eBay sellers are selling the heaters but for me my time is worth just replacing tank with all the guts. (pump, heater, level sensor).

sailquik
10-05-2018, 01:16 PM
Bob,
Yes, I have the tank with the failed level sensor in the back of the van in the box the
new DEF tank came in.
Roger

Aqua Puttana
10-05-2018, 01:17 PM
...
I will change my stance on keeping the DEF tank a bit more full (like check it every 1,000 miles or every 15 days).
...
Topped the DEF tank up with about another 1.5 Gallon of the Genuine MB DEF in the neat
bottles, just to make sure that wasn't the problem.
...
Roger
So the MB genuine labeled DEF didn't make a difference? The problem was the level monitor?

You feel that keeping the tank full caused the level monitor to fail so you are no longer keeping the DEF topped off?

If yes, did someone offer that as opinion? Is there data that supports keeping the tank full affects the level monitor service life? (Parts in the caustic DEF environment an fail.)

You are still using Terra Cair Ultra Pure DEF to refill the MB style bottles?

:cheers: vic

Giver123
10-05-2018, 08:41 PM
Thank you so very much group for certifying the proper oil according to my picture and the proper amount. I love this group:cheers:

sailquik
10-05-2018, 11:44 PM
Vic,
No, I used to "trust" the onboard systems to tell me when DEF needed to be added.
For 175,000 miles, when the Low DEF notification would show up in my speedo cluster
message box, I would add a 2.5 gallon kit of DEF within ~<60 miles. Never the next day,
almost never after additional restarts.
I would stop at the next WalMart and buy a kit and replenish the DEF.
That worked, perfectly, until it didn't.
The last time I used that protocol, the DEF level never reset and the message did not
go out.
Filling the DEF tank from a 2.5 gallon container/kit, even with a flex spout is a recipe
for a big spill if you want to replenish the DEF to full (where it can be seen in the vertical
DEF fill pipe).
I went and purchased the Genuine MB DEF Fluid because others here on the forum had really
liked the way the DEF bottle screwed onto the fill pipe and it fills up right to near the top without
any overflow or splashes.
My theory was that filling the DEF tank all the way up might jog the DEF level sensor to get it back
working, or possibly the level was so low that 2.5 gallons wasn't quite enough.
So now I have 2 of the super easy to use screw on MB DEF bottles and can refill my new DEF tank
to the top without worrying about spills and splashes.
Plus, the new DEF tank gets me a 2 year warranty on that DEF problem.
Hey, when I cut open the failed DEF tank, maybe I can figure out some sort of
"DEF Dipstick" so those with the small DEF tank just outboard RH of the radiator stack
can stick a dipstick or tube to measure the DEF level.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Bobnoxious
10-06-2018, 01:33 AM
From my readings, there may be two "countdown" conditions set, hard and soft.

1. A "soft"'countdown, the result of low DEF may clear after DEF replenishment. However, this may require drive, trip and keys cycles.

2. A "hard" countdown, the result of SCR (AdBlue) component failure, can only be cleared by scanner requiring SCN and teach-in.

Further study required.

Bobnoxious
10-06-2018, 01:38 AM
Roger, you never saw this?

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=626495&postcount=9

sailquik
10-06-2018, 03:39 PM
Bob,
Yes, I saw it, and filed it away in my memory.
Since the " replenish with a 2.5 gallon kit at the low DEF message" was working so well
I didn't need to fill the tank more than the 2.5 gallons.
When that didn't work, and the low DEF message stayed on for about a week, I tired the
"fill the tank to the top" protocol to see if it would jog the DEF level sensor loose.
No glory on that attempt.
2 days later it started the "16 starts remaining" countdown.
When I dropped it off at the shop 4 days later it had 2 starts remaining.
Going to/from work and normal grocery shopping, without using up the remaining
"starts" was a much more arduous feat than you might imagine as I'm 180 miles
from the dealer, 16 miles from one office/job site and 6 miles from the other office
job site and shopping is in between them and I visit each office every day.
Needless to say my Sprinter sat idling few times to keep from using up more
"starts". Way more idling that normal!
Roger

Bobnoxious
10-06-2018, 04:40 PM
The countdown feature is certainly frustrating and sure I'll be victimized sooner or later. Hopefully later. Gee, 180 miles to dealer is quite a haul but they sound, per your posts, competent and well equipped.

I enjoy studying and learning about the SCR system and hopefully can help others.

Happy Sprintering. :hugs:

Bob.

Giver123
10-07-2018, 10:41 AM
Quick question concerning my original Post. Yesterday (10-6-18) I installed the 229.52 for the new oil change. Now if I ever need to add oil to stay within the 11-1/2 quart range can I add some of my old Mobile 1 ESP 229.51?

Thank you!

Aqua Puttana
10-07-2018, 12:40 PM
My personal opinions.

Quick question concerning my original Post. Yesterday (10-6-18) I installed the 229.52 for the new oil change. Now if I ever need to add oil to stay within the 11-1/2 quart range can I add some of my old Mobile 1 ESP 229.51?

Thank you!
I would top off with MB229.51 without a doubt. It may even be on your official approved list.

Because the MB229.5 I get is only available in gallon jugs, for my T1N I have been using 8 quarts of 5w-40 MB229.5 with 1 quart of 15w-40 MB228.3 spec to get to 9 quarts. Within reason, good engine oil is good engine oil. I always top off with 15w-40 when/if needed.

If you don't use the 20,000 mile OCI, top off may never be necessary. (For me, the 20,000 mile OCI risk vs benefit doesn't seem worthwhile for all with the exception of an expediter or other owner who drives most all highway miles.)

:2cents: vic

Ciprian
10-09-2018, 08:59 AM
Vic,
No, I used to "trust" the onboard systems to tell me when DEF needed to be added.
For 175,000 miles, when the Low DEF notification would show up in my speedo cluster
message box, I would add a 2.5 gallon kit of DEF within ~<60 miles. Never the next day,
almost never after additional restarts.
I would stop at the next WalMart and buy a kit and replenish the DEF.
That worked, perfectly, until it didn't.
The last time I used that protocol, the DEF level never reset and the message did not
go out.
Filling the DEF tank from a 2.5 gallon container/kit, even with a flex spout is a recipe
for a big spill if you want to replenish the DEF to full (where it can be seen in the vertical
DEF fill pipe).
I went and purchased the Genuine MB DEF Fluid because others here on the forum had really
liked the way the DEF bottle screwed onto the fill pipe and it fills up right to near the top without
any overflow or splashes.
My theory was that filling the DEF tank all the way up might jog the DEF level sensor to get it back
working, or possibly the level was so low that 2.5 gallons wasn't quite enough.
So now I have 2 of the super easy to use screw on MB DEF bottles and can refill my new DEF tank
to the top without worrying about spills and splashes.
Plus, the new DEF tank gets me a 2 year warranty on that DEF problem.
Hey, when I cut open the failed DEF tank, maybe I can figure out some sort of
"DEF Dipstick" so those with the small DEF tank just outboard RH of the radiator stack
can stick a dipstick or tube to measure the DEF level.
Hope this helps,
RogerRoger,

It might be that the DEF level sensor just decided to croak and it wouldn't have made any difference if you would habe kept the tank full all the time.

So far I have been filling the DEF tank like you used to do. Wait till the message and then add 2.5 gal of DEF. I diaslike having around half empty DEF jugs. I might try filling it at the pump periodically and keeping it full that way if it is not that much of a hassle.

Have you ever filled it at the pump? Does the pump automatically shut off without spills like a fuel pump does?

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Bobnoxious
10-09-2018, 10:27 AM
...Have you ever filled it at the pump? Does the pump automatically shut off without spills like a fuel pump does?

I am not Roger...but...wish to contribute.

Buying at the pump raised concerns about purity and contamination as it appears it doesn't require much to throw DEF out of spec. I read somewhere the Sprinter is happy within a certain range of DEF (urea) concentration.

I have noticed many filling-stations place rubber floor mats over the underground fuel tank filling receptacles, I assume to prevent water intrusion.

Not sure if DEF is stored in underground tanks?

Avanti raised legitimate concerns about the cooler temperature of pump DEF possibly aversely affecting system components during times of high ambient temps. Certainly possible and easily avoided.

I'll stick to packaged DEF and try to source Terra Clair Ultra Pure as Roger, and doesn't appear more expensive than competing brands.

TC Ultra pure may be formulated under more stringent criteria as I understand API/ISO compliance is voluntary and not all batches tested.

And, I find the words "Ultra Pure"
comforting.

You Brought up an excellent point about the sensors croaking and curious if they could be temporarily tricked into fooling the N141 SCR or ECU modules to believe the tank is always full?
Not with the intent of permanently defeating the system, only to use in emergencies.

Roger, are you aware if the DEF tank sensors have been superseded?

Bob.

Giver123
10-09-2018, 09:48 PM
My personal opinions.


I would top off with MB229.51 without a doubt. It may even be on your official approved list.

Because the MB229.5 I get is only available in gallon jugs, for my T1N I have been using 8 quarts of 5w-40 MB229.5 with 1 quart of 15w-40 MB228.3 spec to get to 9 quarts. Within reason, good engine oil is good engine oil. I always top off with 15w-40 when/if needed.

If you don't use the 20,000 mile OCI, top off may never be necessary. (For me, the 20,000 mile OCI risk vs benefit doesn't seem worthwhile for all with the exception of an expediter or other owner who drives most all highway miles.)

:2cents: vic thank you Aqua Puttana

Bobnoxious
10-09-2018, 10:21 PM
Label on plastic engine cover. NCV DPF only. Non-DPF, disregard.

Aqua Puttana
10-09-2018, 10:35 PM
thank you Aqua Puttana
Thanks. To be clear.

... I always top off with 15w-40 when/if needed.

...


:2cents: vic
My example of mixing MB229.5 5w-40 with MB228.3 15w-40 works for my Sprinter because the T1N = No DPF.

For your DPF equipped engine you shouldn't top off with anything but the commonly available in N. America MB229.51 or MB229.52 low ash SAP (there are other acceptable less common low ash oils too).

I hope this helps.

:cheers: vic

Added:
For further confusion...
Topping off with 1 quart of high(er) ash oil (eg. - MB229.5) at one time was listed by MB as acceptable for emergency only. That said, I don't consider being just 1 quart low an emergency. I'd just hold off until proper low ash SAP oil was available.

Bobnoxious
10-10-2018, 02:59 AM
One has to wonder how many DPF issues are related to using the incorrect spec oil?

Aqua Puttana
10-10-2018, 02:28 PM
One has to wonder how many DPF issues are related to using the incorrect spec oil?
Good question.

Being a T1N owner, I don't study it, but it appears that the DPF's have fairly good service longevity. There aren't a ton of operating problems then replaced DPF threads for the older NCV3's. NAS aka NAFTA 2007's are now 11 years old with many miles.

Low ash SAP diesel oil at one time was a rare commodity. Low SAP oil is now very common. Maybe not as common as the 0.8 MB spec that is said to be needed (1.0 vs 0.8), but low overall. There have been a few posts/threads where MB229.5 or other oil (higher than 1.0) has shortened DPF service life. There have been other posts/threads here where owners are running 1.0 oil in the DPF Sprinters. Some claim many miles without problems. It would be logical that there are many more running 1.0 oil who haven't discovered Sprinter-source or pay attention to the MB more strict SAP requirements.

Some discussion was here.

Is Rotella T6 "Good enough" for DPF equipped Sprinters?
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61997

:cheers: vic

SprinterWisc
10-21-2018, 09:10 PM
Thanks for the post about filling up with DEF at the pump. There is a station about 10min from my house, right off the interstate. I've been filling up there for the last several months. It works well enough ... but you have to lift the pump up a bit if you want to fill to the very top. Perhaps I'll stop doing that and go back to ordering the box and getting one of those fancy-dancy bottles. The Ram ecodiesels have a nice gauge that lets the driver know exactly where their DEF levels are ... far better IMO.

When aircraft started going metric, fuel personnel were having struggles calculating the load. The aircraft's fuel level was automatically calculated by the computer based upon whatever you told it you put in. That resulted once in an emergency landing with almost 100 ppl on board. The pilot said ... "Give me a dipstick or gauge any day. " Well said. Fancier is not always better.