2004 140" high roof conversion project no start no crank no lights.

Powerhauz

New member
Mid conversion just installed aux battery, fans, isolator. Started up normally to test battery isolator then shut off on its own. Thought that was weird so I plugged in an obd2 reader and got p2506. Truck ran for another 10 minutes and just shut off randomly. Went to start up again and it ran enough to run up to the store and back before shutting down for the last time. Now I don't get anything when the key is turned. No dash, clicks, buzzes farts...nothing. The clock will occasionally turn on and beep at me when the door is open but that is all. I've checked battery good and all connections. Replaced/cleaned negative battery cable and engine ground. Disco'd all aux battery functions. Still no lights no start no click. Checked for parasitic load and found nothing. Been all over google and here chasing relays, fuses, grounds, fuse blocks, switches and other assorted electrical bits. I'm extremely frustrated as it looked like it was working and then just died the next day. Help?
 

Powerhauz

New member
I've checked every fuse I can find. Under steering column, under driver seat, even the box on the front of the battery. No fuses blown anywhere. Have I missed some? I've even checked, wiggled and swapped the ECU relay. Nothing has changed yet. Did I brick the ECU? Did my keys, which worked fine before this, go bad? I'm not sure what to throw at it next. I haven't started shotgunning expensive stuff yet. I'm really hoping it's something stupid but for the life of me I can't seem to find it. Doesn't help the thing won't even turn on.
 

Powerhauz

New member
I did! Twice! Still no lights no love. Tested battery myself at 12.7V and at autozone 12.51V 80% capacity. Also tried "jumping" with the isolator hooked up running the Aux battery with the starter. No change. Where I'm at after three days is Key in and turned to ON with no dash EXCEPT clock/mileage display and the last code I grabbed was P2506 - "ECM/PCM Power Input Signal Range/Performance". I'll wiggle the starter control relay under the seat next I guess. I already swapped the ECU relay with the turn signal relay....shocker no change. Not even aircraft stump me this hard. good one merc-Hades.
 

Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
Sometimes the key switch, a Multiple mechanical contact point switch, fails. Try getting your multimeter (or a test light) and see if there is voltage where there should be. Use the wiring diagram or common sense, whichever is required. I haven’t had to do this on a mb sprinter, but I certainly have on other vehicles.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
From your narrative, my hypothesis: you overloaded something when you connected your aux battery system, enough to anger the Sprinter gods, but without actually blowing a fuse. That lead to a slow melt-through somewhere on the loom and now you’re grounded until you locate and correct the fault.

How / where did you tie in? With what devices?

The initial inrush current between parallel batteries can be significant, so may have cooked something if you tried to supply it from an existing feeder circuit under the seat.

-dave

Service manual for 2004-2006 years:
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf
 
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Powerhauz

New member
I tied into the aux A/c unit wiring by replacing the in-line fuse in the PDC and running wire along the same channel. I've switched whole aux battery system to be standalone now. My problem of not getting any response in key positions 1, 2, or 3 continues. I will be taking another look at the PDC, fuse block and key tumbler connections tomorrow. Today was spent swapping, wiggling, inspecting and testing different relays to make sure they still fire off with power applied. All relays checked good. Weeding my way through wire diagrams, I've a few more circuits to chase and ground points to inspect. I may also take the alternator to get it tested as I remember the PDC had gotten hot during the van's last power cycle. Would it be possible that I finished off the alternator/voltage regulator by applying a secondary charging circuit? The final shutdown also brought a metallic grinding noise as everything powered down.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
Okay: normally the PDC _never_ gets hot, so something in your aux battery setup was sucking hard on it. If you used the rear a/c cable that’s fused to what? 150 amps?? So that fuse wouldn’t blow ‘till 165? That would pull down the van’s voltage and the ECU may store a bunch of “X sensor voltage low” faults (p2506 is a low voltage fault), and eventually fail to start at about 10.5vdc. Remember: the key twist is a request. The ECU actually cranks the starter (and has a veto). The IC dash lights are also commanded on by the ECU, so it’s unhappy with voltage.

My mind keeps going back to your initial post: problems with van’s electrical power almost immediately after connecting aux battery, and van died with about 30 minutes of cumulative on time. That really sounds like you overloaded something.

What circuit did you tie into for the Terminal-15 (acc) or D+ signal to close your battery isolator? At an EK1 (“Body Manufacturer”) terminal under the driver’s seat, or somewhere else? I’d trace that back first for signs of overload. Maybe your isolator device is faulty and grounded B+ and ACC to the frame, burning out the contact point in the ignition switch? You may see static voltage at the switch output, but will it conduct current and keep voltage up under load?? The switch has been known to fail... maybe you nudged it past its happy point?

Happy hunting and good luck,

-dave
 
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Powerhauz

New member
The Isolator is a WirthCo 20092 Battery Doctor 125 Amp/150 Amp Battery Isolator. Wiring is: Start batt pos+>150A ami fuse (position 4 PDC)>wire run>Isolator>wire run>150A ami fuse>Aux battery pos+. Both Aux batt and Isolator were grounded.

So the hunt continues. Pulled the ECU, no damage. Rechecked wires underneath vehicle for melting points, nothing. Took drivers seat rails off to get the best view of the rats nest, no damage and relays fire and give appropriate readings. Went back to the heat source in the PDC and found some plastic rippling out from underneath the bar. I pulled the box out of the vehicle and found a burn mark on position #6 100A fuse.

hopefully those pop up.

I've ordered more 100A AMI fuses. They arrive Monday. According to the wiring diagram, this connection touches pretty much everything I've been having problems with. Is this the smoking gun?

Still making jokes so it can't be all bad right?
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
Looks pretty smoky to me! Hope that solves it.

Bill:
PDC = “Power Distribution Centre” (the positive bus bar and fuse holder on the front of the starter battery)

-dave
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
Did I miss it? No mention of the B+ cable (Positive Battery cable) 300 amp fusable link.
 
B

billintomahawk

Guest
OK, not trying to be difficult, I just want to understand.
Powrhauz initially tied his house system into the AC wiring which is actually runs through fuse 4(80 amp) to B+ direct.
This is the same as going directly to/from fuse 4 since there are no relays or switches in between to impede 80 amps of power.
Fuse 4 is not switched in any way. Nor is the AC feed.

So why are we looking at the ignition switch and other components?
How could there be damage there?

The battery is protected by an 80 amp fuse that did not blow.
If he had a fault in his house system he would simply drain the battery or burn the wiring off or both.

bill in tomahawk
 
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autostaretx

Erratic Member
Bob: Powerhauz has a 2004 ... your image of the 2007 PDC only vaguely corresponds. Us T1Ns don't have a fusible link in the alt/starter cables.

Bill: the PDC mounts on the positive battery post of the starter battery (in both T1N and NCV3), it's easily reached in the T1N.

Here's what it looks like, and its fuse assignments:



--dick
p.s. for onlookers: full T1N wiring diagrams are in http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf
The above image came from the pages in the "T1N Service scans" subdirectory of http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/
 
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billintomahawk

Guest
OK, not trying to be difficult, I just want to understand.
Powrhauz initially tied his house system into the AC wiring which is actually runs through fuse 4(80 amp) to B+ direct.
This is the same as going directly to/from fuse 4 since there are no relays or switches in between to impede 80 amps of power.
Fuse 4 is not switched in any way. Nor is the AC feed.

So why are we looking at the ignition switch and other components?
How could there be damage there?

The battery is protected by an 80 amp fuse that did not blow.
If he had a fault in his house system he would simply drain the battery or burn the wiring off or both.

bill in tomahawk
So same question. Where did Powerhauz tie in, what fuse blew and why was the ignition, etc affected?

The description above talks about fuses for the various function off what looks like a common buss but I don't see fuses.
Are they fusible links?
If so did he blow one or more?
And why?

If he blew other fuses which one(s)?
Why?
bill
 
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trc.rhubarb

Well-known member
Hey Bill,
When he said the PDC was melted and likely to be part of the issue, that's all power coming from the positive lug on the battery that has to flow through it.
So if somehow it overloaded the PDC such as starter current pulling from the house battery vs the starter battery due to either a defective isolator or bad choice in trigger wire, I could see that preventing all systems from powering.
Worse though is that it may leave some systems functional and others non-functional assuming (hate to do that) it's not just a bus bar on top but something more worthy of the star logo.



I'm thinking that power got inadvertently backfed from the house battery one way or another since he confirmed that it wasn't hooked up in a way to supply 24v to the system.
 

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