any redesign of problematic emissions system?
- Thread starter zmatt00
- Start date
sailquik
Well-known member
zmatt00,
OK, properly maintained, with the specified (or better) maintenance fluids, how is the current Selective
Catalytic Reduction (SCR) system applied to USA/NA specification Sprinter vans "unreliable"?
I've had 4 SCR/DEF equipped Sprinters (2010 144" wb 3.0 liter V6/2011 170"wb 3.0 liter V6/
2012 170" wb 3.0 liter V6/2014 170" wb 2.143 liter OM-651 4 cylinder 2 stage turbo-7 speed trans),
and I've never had any sort of emissions systems issue/problem beyond the purely mechanical
DPF bracket breakage common on the OM-651 (fully covered by the Emissions Warranty).
Properly maintained, using TerraCair Ultra Pure DEF Fluid 80% of the time, in over 600,000 miles
there have been no problems.
How is this "unreliable".
You take care of the emissions systems, and they take care of limiting your emissions.
Drive your Sprinter in a manner that limits high % engine load driving to the extent
possible, and Sprinters become 100% reliable.
At least mine sure have.
I've only ever opened the hood on my SCR equipped Sprinters to add DEF fluid (TerraCair
Ultra Pure whenever I could find it) and to check the oil a few times.
Only other thing I do is keep the fuel tank full of non-biomass diesel fuel.
On a few occasions I've been forced to refuel with <20% biomass diesel, but I've also
driven out of many fuel stops because they had no fuel < 5% biomass.
Roger
OK, properly maintained, with the specified (or better) maintenance fluids, how is the current Selective
Catalytic Reduction (SCR) system applied to USA/NA specification Sprinter vans "unreliable"?
I've had 4 SCR/DEF equipped Sprinters (2010 144" wb 3.0 liter V6/2011 170"wb 3.0 liter V6/
2012 170" wb 3.0 liter V6/2014 170" wb 2.143 liter OM-651 4 cylinder 2 stage turbo-7 speed trans),
and I've never had any sort of emissions systems issue/problem beyond the purely mechanical
DPF bracket breakage common on the OM-651 (fully covered by the Emissions Warranty).
Properly maintained, using TerraCair Ultra Pure DEF Fluid 80% of the time, in over 600,000 miles
there have been no problems.
How is this "unreliable".
You take care of the emissions systems, and they take care of limiting your emissions.
Drive your Sprinter in a manner that limits high % engine load driving to the extent
possible, and Sprinters become 100% reliable.
At least mine sure have.
I've only ever opened the hood on my SCR equipped Sprinters to add DEF fluid (TerraCair
Ultra Pure whenever I could find it) and to check the oil a few times.
Only other thing I do is keep the fuel tank full of non-biomass diesel fuel.
On a few occasions I've been forced to refuel with <20% biomass diesel, but I've also
driven out of many fuel stops because they had no fuel < 5% biomass.
Roger
D
Deleted member 50714
Guest
I agree with Roger.
How is it? TPEBSW. the "Problem Exists Behide Ssteering Wheel." IMHO most issues can be attributed to owner's lack of knowledge and understanding related to the complexities of modern vehicles exhaust after treatment systems. Failure to read the owner's manual, harmful driving habits, failure pay attention to unusual sounds, using wrong fluids, particularly oil. fluids in wrong reservoirs, etc, etc, etc.
Problems compounded by incompetent service departments. I am not saying all service departments are bad, just most. I have some data and experience.
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avanti
2022 Ford Transit 3500
I usually agree with Roger on almost all points, BUT:
My Sprinter has been maintained totally by the book, by a reliable dealer, and with great care. The van has had a very easy life--almost entirely highway miles. Nonetheless, I have had multiple emissions failures, in the same vein as many others have reported.
Of course, neither Roger's experience nor mine prove anything. It is quite possible that I am just unlucky. It is also possible that he has just been lucky. But, I simply do not believe that the many, many emissions failures reported here and elsewhere are predominantly caused by user error. I just don't. I DO give some credence to the eye-rolls I get when I have asked multiple seemingly-trustworthy service writers from multiple geographic regions when I asked them if they are seeing any improvement in emissions reliability.
Sprinter engines are wonderful machines. BlueTec emissions systems are an embarrassment. I don't think it does any good to deny this.
My Sprinter has been maintained totally by the book, by a reliable dealer, and with great care. The van has had a very easy life--almost entirely highway miles. Nonetheless, I have had multiple emissions failures, in the same vein as many others have reported.
Of course, neither Roger's experience nor mine prove anything. It is quite possible that I am just unlucky. It is also possible that he has just been lucky. But, I simply do not believe that the many, many emissions failures reported here and elsewhere are predominantly caused by user error. I just don't. I DO give some credence to the eye-rolls I get when I have asked multiple seemingly-trustworthy service writers from multiple geographic regions when I asked them if they are seeing any improvement in emissions reliability.
Sprinter engines are wonderful machines. BlueTec emissions systems are an embarrassment. I don't think it does any good to deny this.
OrioN
2008 2500 170" EXT
Earlier version, yes. Issues have been 'ironed out' with each passing model year, and the current versions have been performing well.
Carry on...
avanti
2022 Ford Transit 3500
I don't necessarily disagree with this. I certainly hope it is true. It is hard to tell just by eyeballing, though. I think this is basically what OP is asking about. Actual data would be great.
OrioN
2008 2500 170" EXT
I'll leave you graph the stats from the user experiences on this forum for starts...
D
Deleted member 50714
Guest
As a "trained" observer, it is my opinion and conclusion, based on decades of personal observation, that most peoples driving habits are just plain detrimental to motor vehicle operation and long service life. At the risk of sounding misogynistic, most females fall in this category. Bless their little hearts.
Take for example my lovely wife. To her, that's not a traffic signal but a dragstrip Christmas tree and for some reason she's compelled to be a leader of the pack, racing to be the first to wait at the next red-light. Upon final approach, she applies her signature G-lock 3G stop. And then there's highway driving and her constantly oscillating leadfoot making a subtle thousand RPM changes, and for whatever reason cannot maintain a constant distance with the vehicle in front of her. This style of driving is not only a waste of fuel but also puts unnecessary load on the vehicle.
Me, I am Mr. Kick Back Jack, the old fart you'll see cruising the sloooooow lane, where all good senior-citizens should be! I take a gander up ahead, check things out and adjust my speed accordingly, applying brakes rarely and in most cases only the last few feet of a long coast. If you're behind me, you will surely be hating life. Please pass when safe!
While entering the freeway, I'll put the hammer down, as one should, to get up speed and safely merge with traffic. I am a perfect driver.
Maybe some of the early issues have been remedied by firmware revisions and hardware supercedures.
Take for example my lovely wife. To her, that's not a traffic signal but a dragstrip Christmas tree and for some reason she's compelled to be a leader of the pack, racing to be the first to wait at the next red-light. Upon final approach, she applies her signature G-lock 3G stop. And then there's highway driving and her constantly oscillating leadfoot making a subtle thousand RPM changes, and for whatever reason cannot maintain a constant distance with the vehicle in front of her. This style of driving is not only a waste of fuel but also puts unnecessary load on the vehicle.
Me, I am Mr. Kick Back Jack, the old fart you'll see cruising the sloooooow lane, where all good senior-citizens should be! I take a gander up ahead, check things out and adjust my speed accordingly, applying brakes rarely and in most cases only the last few feet of a long coast. If you're behind me, you will surely be hating life. Please pass when safe!
While entering the freeway, I'll put the hammer down, as one should, to get up speed and safely merge with traffic. I am a perfect driver.
Maybe some of the early issues have been remedied by firmware revisions and hardware supercedures.
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Graphite Dave
Dave Orton
See above.
D
Deleted member 50714
Guest
Well, that brought a smile to me ugly mug.
Yah know, i'm thinking vehicle issues are all about just bad mojo, always giving off negative waves or energy and Sprinter picks up on this negative energy. It also seems like some people are just natural kryptonite to vehicles regardless of how well-maintained.
The Sprinter Diesel emissions system is an over-engineered, complex, and temperamental solution to the EPA regulations. The Diesel engine is great, it's the emissions system that completely makes the offering unappealing to me. I have had nothing but issues, albeit most covered under warranty. Still, I don't like going to the dealer every 5-10k miles for check engine lights, and outside of warranty the expenses to maintain will become _outrageous_. Unless there have been a major improvement in the emissions system design, I am extremely cautious to buy into another MB Diesel. I hoped and wished that the gas version would be offered in 4x4. Without this, the advantages of Sprinter are fewer. On the other hand, I had also hoped they redesigned the 4x4 system as well given all the problems I have read people have with it (clunking, or just plain not doing its job effectively). Its either 2WD gas, or get a 4x4 Diesel and plan to sell before warranty expires again for me!
Bob
your wife must be the long lost twin sister to my wife, mine only understand two speeds, full acceleration, or slam on the brakes.
and she always accuses me of driving like an old fart,and mostly she is right, [from her point of view],i also drive to the traffic ahead of me and hardly need to use the brakes, indeed my brakes seem to last forever,cant remember the last time i had to get new brakes on any previous vehicle i have owned .
Rick
metrisprinter
Member
I was reading MB descriptions of 2019 Sprinter that mentioned Diesel engine emissions system is 3rd Generation. Is the 3rd Generation emissions start in 2019 or earlier year(s)?
Where did you see that the emissions system on the current Sprinter is "third generation?" I can't find any changes in the emissions system for 2019. The 2019 Sprinter is the 3rd generation of Sprinter, so perhaps you are confusing "generation of Sprinter" with "generation of emissions system."
D
Deleted member 50714
Guest
It takes a awhile to work out the bugs. Question is how soon will diesel technology be replaced with a cleaner alternative.
The following emission components have been improved on the Bluetec.
NOx sensors four (4) revisions
Pressure differential sensor. Two (2) revisions.
Exhaust back pressure sensor. One (1).
DEF tank heater. One (1) revision.
DEF pressure delivery line. One (1) revision. (Improved materials).
ECU and SCR module firmware revisions.
DPF mounting brackets. (Reported, to cause transmission bell housing and or DPF to crack).
Graphite Dave
Dave Orton
Graphite Dave
Dave Orton
Gas
D
Deleted member 50714
Guest
Damn, like that.
D
Deleted member 50714
Guest
Electric vehicles reign SUPREME. I enjoy my Nissan Leaf. No pesky fuel stops, perfect for in-town errands. Awesome acceleration, ease of maintenance, 6-years and only replaced chassis battery and put air in tires.Gas
For longer journeys, use Prius or Corolla. For longer-longer journeys, Sprinter and enjoy MAX leg room.