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View Full Version : Silver star trans replacement - 500 miles and failing


Carminooch615
05-16-2018, 04:15 PM
Well, the saga continues... less than 600 miles on my remanufactured silverstar transmission and it’s doing three things-
1.) Rumble strip sound when coasting in third or fourth. Louder than my failed transmission. Noticed it when I pulled away and drove home from the shop that replaced my trans.
2.) When coasting in first gear or coming to a stop, loud whining sound that sounds almost like when you drive in reverse really fast. Loud enough to bounce off buildings and be audible inside the van with the windows open. Also very pronounced when the windows are closed.
3.) And finally, newly developed intermittent flaring between 2nd and 3rd gear. Almost as if the trans shifts 2nd gear, neutral, then into 3rd gear.

I called every dodge dealership around me and they wanted $130 and an appointment to check my trans fluid levels, NOT happening. Incredibly frustrated about that, so far still looking for a way to check trans fluid levels.

I had it replaced in February and only put 530 miles on it with the simptoms happening right as I left the shop and getting worse.

Called Silverstar and spoke to a gentleman who requested I bring it back to the shop to have them look at it. Which will, of course, cost money. Will probably require the trans to be replaced again, which of course, costs money. To the tune of approx 500$.

When I inquired about why I should have to pay exorbitantly to correct their mistakes, I was asked “well, did you read the warranty?”

Yes, I read the warranty. I’m incredibly frustrated. They said they would wave shipping though. I definitely didn’t pay for shipping in the first place though.

Has anyone else had an experience like this from silverstar? I’m really p’d off that I’ll have to drop another $500 or so to likely pull and replace the trans, again.

Carminooch615
05-16-2018, 04:28 PM
Would anyone recommend this dipstick?

Europarts Trans Dipstick (http://europarts-sd.com/2002-2009transmissionservicedipstick.asp)

sailquik
05-16-2018, 04:31 PM
Go to an authorized Mercedes Benz or Freightliner Sprinter dealer for a full scan of the
TCM (Transmission Control Module).
Did you use the correct transmission fluid?
Either the Sprinter Specific Fluid from a Dodge Dealer or per MB BEVO for a T1N with the 5G-
Tronic/NAG-1 transmission!
Are you sure the “rumbling” isn’t drive shaft/
steady bearing related?
Roger


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Aqua Puttana
05-16-2018, 04:35 PM
Would anyone recommend this dipstick?


Yep. Check it when the engine and tranny is hot (approx. 180F).

vic

Carminooch615
05-16-2018, 04:43 PM
The rumbling is only is only in 3rd or 4th gear, can’t remember which one. It doesn’t seem related to rpm so I felt like I could rule out the shaft...but then again who knows!

I can’t remember if the trans came prefilled but I would hope silverstar used the correct trans fluid.

I’m going to bring the van to get the TCM scanned, good call. Would the symptoms I describe be enough to NOT throw a check engine light but still have the TCM pick up on these issues?

sailquik
05-16-2018, 06:27 PM
You need to check with the shop that installed your transmission!
Very unlikely that Silverstar filled it with fluid as assemblies full of fluid are very hard
to ship due to HAZMAT regulations on motor carriers.
You need MB BEVO 236.14 approved fluid.
Most likely Silverstar ships the correct synthetic fluid with the trans and torque converter, but
the fluid is in DOT approved plastic bottles in a quart size.
You can get the approved fluid at any MB Sprinter
Dealer.
You can have a trans fluid change kit shipped to you from EuroParts SD with the approved fluid/ filter/gaskets.
The MOPAR Crossfire/Sprinter NAG-1 specific trans fluid is MOPAR Part # 05127382AB.
Check with whomever did the install to determine what fluid was used to fill your transmission + get the correct NAG-1 dipstick so you can check the level when at full operating temp as suggested.
Roger


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

smiller
05-16-2018, 06:53 PM
Called Silverstar and spoke to a gentleman who requested I bring it back to the shop to have them look at it. Which will, of course, cost money. Will probably require the trans to be replaced again, which of course, costs money. To the tune of approx 500$.

I'm not understanding... if the transmission is acting up so shortly after installation won't the shop that installed it at least verify what fluid was used for the fill and check the level for you?


.

Carminooch615
05-16-2018, 06:53 PM
Big help on the part number, I’m going to order the kit and I’ve already got the dipstick on it’s way. Thanks again

Edit: upon further looking, the silverstar trans website says t includes a torque converter and synthetic fluids. Considering they are in the industry of sprinter transmissions, I’d like to assume they used the correct fluids

Carminooch615
05-16-2018, 06:56 PM
I'm not understanding... if the transmission is acting up so shortly after installation won't the shop that installed it at least verify what fluid was used for the fill and check the level for you?


.

They probably would, they’re a good shop, however they’re pretty far from me. I was hoping to find someone closer to me

Dougflas
05-16-2018, 11:14 PM
Did the installing shop flush the transmission lines and cooler? It may be possible the center drive shaft bearing was damaged.

lindenengineering
05-17-2018, 03:23 AM
First as this transmission programmed (shift adapted) after installation?
Dennis

owner
05-17-2018, 09:10 AM
2.) When coasting in first gear or coming to a stop, loud whining sound that sounds almost like when you drive in reverse really fast. Loud enough to bounce off buildings and be audible inside the van with the windows open. Also very pronounced when the windows are closed.

This problem you describe made my ears prick up. I had the exact same noise on a 722.6 in another vehicle, only it was in 2nd gear on mine. Only on overrun, and only in 2nd gear. Horrible noise. It gradually went away after about 50k km. But it turns out the noise went away because it had worn away hard parts in the trans.

Eventually this happened...
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48249

AdrianD
05-17-2018, 10:16 AM
3.) And finally, newly developed intermittent flaring between 2nd and 3rd gear. Almost as if the trans shifts 2nd gear, neutral, then into 3rd gear.


That sounds like an F2 sprag failure :frown:

bubbasprinter
05-28-2018, 11:55 PM
Is it safe to say than no one knows how to check the trans fluid? Why is this a secret? This is the first vehicle I have encountered without a trans dip stick. I want to understand.

pdxh2o
05-29-2018, 12:42 AM
Sounds like things are getting ahead of themselves here...I bought my Silverstar trans with credit for the exchange for my core and had a reputable local shop do the R&R. Is that what you did ?

If the local shop was reputable, they'd know to flush the cooler lines, fill it with the proper fluid, and check the hot level after install & road test to protect themselves...if any of the above are missing, it wasn't a reputable shop.

Silverstar rebuilds and upgrades Sprinter transmissions by the thousands. They know what they're doing, but it isn't impossible something could fail (bad luck). I've found them to be 100% responsive to legitimate warranty issues and prompt to respond in those rare cases.

I'll agree that the failure to provide an easy way for the owner-operator to check the trans fluid is unfortunate...but the Amazon or ESD after-market sticks work fine. Don't forget to change the trans cable plastic female end on the trans side when replacing the fluid & filter, leaks of the o-ring there, and subsequent loss of fluid in intermittent burps have led to many a blown trans...

Carminooch615
05-29-2018, 10:48 PM
I stopped by the shop that did the replacement and had them check the fluid, right on the money. FWIW, the trans includes the fluid.

I bought a dipstick online from euro parts, not really happy that it sticks out 3” but that appeared to be spot on.

The shop had other sprinters there and have been in business for some time so I want to say they are reputable but this was my first time going to them.

It slips sometimes, other times it drives perfect. What’s constant is a very loud mechanical wining only in 1st gear when coasting to a stop, and the rumble strip sound when I lift my foot off the gas. Are there other things that could cause RSN?

On another note, I had them pull codes from the van and got P2311 and P2312. I’m wondering if they can be related to the odd behavior of the trans

Carminooch615
05-29-2018, 10:50 PM
Is it safe to say than no one knows how to check the trans fluid? Why is this a secret? This is the first vehicle I have encountered without a trans dip stick. I want to understand.

I contacted initially the local dodge dealership and they wanted $130 to check the trans fluid and an appointment 4 days out. Got fed up and bought the red dipstick did europarts.sd and it sticks 3” out of the tube which they say is normal -___-

JCMiller23
05-30-2018, 02:45 AM
Don't forget to change the trans cable plastic female end on the trans side when replacing the fluid & filter, leaks of the o-ring there, and subsequent loss of fluid in intermittent burps have led to many a blown trans...

I am in the process of swapping on my transmission, noob looking for all info I can get. What is the 'trans cable plastic female end'? Are you talking about the wiring harness? The bracket that holds the shifter onto the trans?

trc.rhubarb
05-30-2018, 02:56 AM
I contacted initially the local dodge dealership and they wanted $130 to check the trans fluid and an appointment 4 days out. Got fed up and bought the red dipstick did europarts.sd and it sticks 3” out of the tube which they say is normal -___-

Normal. It bottoms out, so no need to be concerned since it wasn't ever designed to live in the tube. Sealed transmissions that aren't sealed are better than ones that don't even come with a fill tube attached.

No help on your tranny woes though.

trc.rhubarb
05-30-2018, 02:58 AM
I am in the process of swapping on my transmission, noob looking for all info I can get. What is the 'trans cable plastic female end'? Are you talking about the wiring harness? The bracket that holds the shifter onto the trans?

This thing is what is meant...
http://europarts-sd.com/transmissionadapterplughousing2002-2008.asp

SILVERSTARTRANS
05-30-2018, 04:28 PM
This is Susan, Office Manager at Silver Star Transmission. I will clarify several issues. You purchased a 2006 Sprinter transmission on 2.1.18, and had it shipped to a shop of your choice in NJ. Our warranty is a parts-only warranty. On Thursday, Feb 1, at 11:53 am, you accepted our warranty by e-mailing me with the statement, “I agree to the terms of the warranty”. And yes, you did pay for shipping on your transmission shipped to NJ at a cost of $210.
Our transmissions have ATF in the transmission from being tested on our dyno, but the torque converter is not filled. Our transmissions are shipped with 2 gal. ATF, which is a fully synthetic ATF made to our specifications. A Mercedes dip stick is required to correctly fill the transmission and torque convertor with fluid. You said that the shop in NJ had a dip stick to use while servicing your vehicle.
You did speak to our shop foreman several weeks ago, who recommended that you take your vehicle back to the shop that installed the transmission. Your post suggests that you were instructed to bring the vehicle to SST, which is incorrect; SST doesn’t work on vehicles but only remanufactures transmissions. Our shop foreman said that he would be happy to talk to a shop employee at the NJ shop after your vehicle was examined. As of today, he has had no further communication from you or from the installing shop in NJ.

calbiker
05-31-2018, 12:34 AM
Hi Susan,

Do you do autopsies on the torque converter? On many 5-cylinder Sprinters the torque converter fails. What fails? Impellers or clutch or?

Carminooch615
05-31-2018, 12:39 AM
Hello Susan, thank you for clarifying the date and even the time I agreed to the terms on the phone (Although no clarification was needed at all). Doesn't matter what I agreed to, I'm entitled to be unhappy I'm potentially going to be shelling out more money to fix my van again. I'm still disappointed that I'm having these issues, which is why I'm here on this forum and in communication with the shop that assisted in the installation. As far as I'm concerned, the transmission isn't behaving as it should and I'm looking to find a solution. Following along in the above posts, you see I've since purchased the correct dipstick so I can ensure the trans was at it's proper level. For safe measure, I also returned to the shop where they checked with their dipstick used on the sprinter- filled to correct level and the fluid looked clean.

While I was at the shop, I had them check if there were any codes or errors they saw on the TCM. I listed above that the TCM came back with two code errors: P2311 and P2312. I made mention above also and inquired, could these two codes be causing these issues to happen?

In my post I was instructed by a member to go back to the shop to have them check the fluid, which is reasonable- I didn't make any mention of driving out to Oklahoma to have you guys check the trans fluid level. The shop I visited is not local and I'm a busy person so I haven't been able to go back.

The whining while coasting to a stop in first gear has remained and hasn't gotten worse. The rumble strip sound may be getting worse or I may be picking up on it more now that I'm really aware to the issues. And the flaring between 2nd and 3rd gear has increased only slightly and seems to be after the trans is at operating temperature.

Midwestdrifter
05-31-2018, 05:20 AM
Assuming the CAN related codes are current, I would check those out first. Lack of proper CAN communication with the ECM is a problem, as the TCM will command engine changes in engine output during shift events, and it uses some of the sensor values from the ECM. The fine control of the Lock-up clutch in the TC is critical to smooth operation.

P2311 CAN-Bus network event: Engine control unit

Signal offline or no signal

a. Inspect CAN-Bus wiring for fault.
b. Engine control unit may have fault codes present
c. If engine control unit has fault codes, correct problems there first.

P2312 CAN signal: Coolant temperature

Engine coolant temperature value is missing or implausible

a. Inspect CAN-Bus Wiring for fault.
b. Engine control unit may have fault codes present.
c. If engine control unit has fault codes, correct problems there first.

Carminooch615
05-31-2018, 02:50 PM
Thank you for breaking that down for me, thats extremely helpful. I did some digging and am going to check the TCM is not wet with trans fluid as I hear it wicks up through the wiring.

Ive seen references to the CAN bus, but after a search I still don't really fully understand where it is or what it looks like. Is it a wiring harness? Are there places, referencing the code, that I should be looking?

Could an issue with the CAN bus be causing loud whining, flaring in between gears, and rumble strip noise? Once I eliminate these codes, is it sufficient to say that I can eliminate my van from being the root of the poor performance regarding the transmission? Silver Star does thousands of transmissions and its baffling to me that I'm having all these issues after replacement...but with the luck I've had since buying the sprinter, nothing would surprise me anymore!

Midwestdrifter
06-01-2018, 01:50 AM
The rsn possibly. The whining? Not likely. I am not sure about the flare. There is a difference between a flare during a shift, and excessive TC slip before or after the shift.

MikeP
06-01-2018, 03:34 AM
First, I know nothing about transmissions. Well be honest I really don't know anything. Even when I thought I knew something I was most likely wrong!

Personally I'd locate a different transmission shop, if nothing else to check what's wrong. More than likely it's the shop done something wrong.

We had a 96 Dodge that Dealership had in under warranty 4 times. It was a 60 mile trip one way to Dealership. Worst everytime got it back. Once they delivered to our home to only go out next morning to find puddle of transmission fluid past side of van. They collected it on flatbed wrecker to take back that time. That time they said their Tech had cracked the transmission case.
Fed up I went to a local AAMCO and told them I was tried of taking back/forth could they check it and tell me what was wrong.
They called and said either rebuild or replace. But, they said they could handle the paperwork it would take for it to be done. I don't know how/remember how they worked with Dealership. Dealership ended up paying them to replace transmission.

SILVERSTARTRANS
06-06-2018, 04:13 PM
All of our torque converters are rebuilt by a local shop in OKC. If you specifically request an autopsy, we can certainly give you a report of their findings.

SILVERSTARTRANS
06-06-2018, 05:07 PM
Bob our shop foreman says: The codes you listed (2311 and 2312) can cause problems in the transmission operation since this is a semi CAN system. It uses information from the engine and ABS system along with the shifter (TRRS) to tell the transmission on when and how to shift.
The two codes are described in our Sprinter Code book as:
2311-CAN-Bus network event: Engine control unit detail cause or remedy. Signal offline or no signal. A. Inspect CAN-bus wiring for fault. B. Engine control unit may have fault codes present. C. If engine control unit has fault codes, correct problems there first.
2312-CAN signal: coolant temperature. Engine coolant temperature value is missing or implausible. To correct this code, use steps A, B, and C as listed for 2311.
If you have questions, feel free to call SST and ask for Bob.

calbiker
06-07-2018, 02:46 PM
Thanks for the time to clarify things. I had requested an autopsy, but the only report I received was that the torque converter failed and that the transmission was in good shape. I would really like to know why the torque converters are failing at an alarming rate on heavy T1N motor homes. The newer NCV3 (6-cylinder) Sprinter motor homes (despite carrying yet more weight) do not appear to have this failure mode.

All of our torque converters are rebuilt by a local shop in OKC. If you specifically request an autopsy, we can certainly give you a report of their findings.

lindenengineering
06-07-2018, 03:10 PM
Most times its solely the lock up clutch solenoid .
Dennis

smiller
06-07-2018, 03:27 PM
Most times its solely the lock up clutch solenoid .


If the T1N failure rate is high just because of the lock-up solenoid, seems like that would be a good candidate for an upgrade if such a thing is possible.

lindenengineering
06-07-2018, 04:17 PM
It was!
Now superseded to a new number a found on the 906 transmissions versions.
Dennis

smiller
06-07-2018, 04:34 PM
It was!
Now superseded to a new number a found on the 906 transmissions versions.


Lol, that's great, but can that part be retrofitted to the T1N?

lindenengineering
06-07-2018, 06:36 PM
Lol, that's great, but can that part be retrofitted to the T1N?

Yes!
Its a normal replacement part when we service the unit.
Dennis

smiller
06-07-2018, 06:40 PM
Yes!
Its a normal replacement part when we service the unit.
Dennis

Great. Presumably anyone doing rebuilds would do the same so perhaps any early-failure syndrome regarding this issue on the T1N will be a one-time affair.

lindenengineering
06-07-2018, 07:09 PM
Yes !
Dennis

calbiker
06-07-2018, 07:13 PM
Susan:

Is SilverStar acknowledging the TC clutch solenoid is a problem in the T1N transmissions?

Are you installing the improved solenoid?

az7000'
06-07-2018, 07:35 PM
Sooooo, if my converter is the 8mm drain plug, the "newer" version might it be the newer TC? Or just a different bolt hole...

calbiker
06-07-2018, 09:35 PM
It's probably just the newer drain plug and nothing else. My T1N has the newer plug and the TC failed.