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Alwin
05-14-2018, 04:10 AM
Hi guys,

I've got a lead on a 1991 T1/TN van that has been converted from RWD to 4x4, it's an old firetruck. I hope this is the right section on this forum for this type of vehicle.. since I'm new to Mercedes and kinda confused with the model indications.

It is the 310 model with the 2.3L 105HP petrol engine, 5 speed manual transmission. Most likely converted by Oberaigner.

It's very hard to find any information on these vehicle with these conversions, so I'm after any information you would have and you're willing to to share. Specifically the 4x4 system, and particularly the front left drive axle.

Cheers!

Midwestdrifter
05-14-2018, 06:09 AM
That is a rare beast. The UK/English guys may know more.

I noticed this thread over on expedition Portal. He has a 91 T1 with 4x4. Maybe you could contact him?

https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/1991-mercedes-t1-210d-4x4-project.184847/

AdrianD
05-14-2018, 09:55 AM
I imagine the people who converted it used readily available parts from a Sprinter which came as 4x4 from the factory. If that's the case, then ebay.de and Google Translate will be your best tools when searching for parts.

Eric Experience
05-14-2018, 10:01 AM
Alwin.
If you can post pictures of the transfer case and front diff then we will be able to answer all your questions. Eric.

Alwin
05-14-2018, 04:59 PM
@Midwestdrifter: It's a rare beast for sure, that's how I'm so excited!
Who do you mean with te UK/English guys? Specifically people from there or another another forum?

I've seen that project on the expeditionportal.com, I'll shoot him a message!



@AdrianD: These were converted by companies cooperating with Mercedes, "officially" so to say, with warranty and everything. Done before the first Sprinter 4x4 came as an 4wd out of the factory, they used G-wagon parts.



@Eric_Experience: I don't have these pictures (yet), but might be able to get them. The story is rather comprehensive, I don't own the vehicle (yet) and I don't have access to it, but I might be able to get some pictures of the guy selling.

Midwestdrifter
05-14-2018, 07:21 PM
There are some European members on here, they may be able to help.

Alwin
05-14-2018, 07:45 PM
Alwin.
If you can post pictures of the transfer case and front diff then we will be able to answer all your questions. Eric.

Would these be any helpful?

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97173&d=1526327103

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97174&d=1526327103

Eric Experience
05-15-2018, 04:13 AM
Alwin.
That is conversion that I have not seen before, the drive to the front diff is on the opposite side to normal sprinters but the same as a Gwagon. Eric.

Alwin
05-15-2018, 04:25 AM
Alwin.
That is conversion that I have not seen before, the drive to the front diff is on the opposite side to normal sprinters but the same as a Gwagon. Eric.

Eric, this makes sense. It technically isn't a Sprinter, it's a 1991 model when it was called the T1.

These weren't made 4x4 from Mercedes directly, but a few companies have done "official" conversions in cooperation with Mercedes. Iglhaut in Germany being the most famous one, but also Oberaigner in Austria and Larag in Switzerland. These companies used G-Wagon parts from the 460 (and partly adjusted them to make things fit) to make these vehicles 4x4. All together only a few hundred have been converted, mainly used as fire trucks and ambulances.

Information on these conversions is scarce, hence my post here.

AdrianD
05-15-2018, 06:46 AM
Well, if they use W460 parts, then....W460 parts are what you want :D

Alwin, there's a guy on a local Romanian 4x4 forum which owned a 310 4x4 firetruck (same G axles drivetrain and engine), I can ask him for more details or even put you in contact with him by email. He owned it for 2 years.

https://forum.club4x4.ro/showthread.php?74089-Mercedes-Benz-310-33-4x4-pompier-pensionat

Alwin
05-15-2018, 03:56 PM
Well, if they use W460 parts, then....W460 parts are what you want :D

Alwin, there's a guy on a local Romanian 4x4 forum which owned a 310 4x4 firetruck (same G axles drivetrain and engine), I can ask him for more details or even put you in contact with him by email. He owned it for 2 years.

https://forum.club4x4.ro/showthread.php?74089-Mercedes-Benz-310-33-4x4-pompier-pensionat

Haha if it was that easy.. just get any 460 parts.. unfortunately they've made if a little more complicated.. an not very well documented. Mostly 460 parts are used, not all are from the 460 though..

I'm gonna have a look at his site a little later when I've got more time! Thanks!
If he's mechanically knowledgeable I'd like to ask him some questions yes! :bounce:

AdrianD
05-16-2018, 06:49 AM
I shall ask him for an email address :) AFAIK, he has restored at least one 40-series Landcruiser, so there's a chance he has some mechanical knowledge.

Regarding your direct problems, you mentioned the left front drive axle. What happened to it?

Alwin
05-16-2018, 08:07 PM
I shall ask him for an email address :) AFAIK, he has restored at least one 40-series Landcruiser, so there's a chance he has some mechanical knowledge.

Regarding your direct problems, you mentioned the left front drive axle. What happened to it?

Thanks AdrianD!

Regarding the axle, the previous owners had an accident where they rolled from ice into a ditch (drivers side). Nothing too bad, mainly cosmetic damage, had it repaired.. drove a few miles and the axle (drivers side) broke.. Had this one replaced and repaired, apparently everything worked fine, drove again a few miles and it broke again..

Now there are two possibilities to me here.. either the crash damaged the alignment of the vehicle causing the axle to break.. (But from my experience with vehicles it needs to be pretty bad before that happens.. and if it is that bad you would see / feel this with assembly..)

Second possibility is that the workshop subconsciously "activated" a diff lock (without them realizing) for which there's no switch inside.. hence why I'm interested in the different transfer cases etc. Therefore, at this stage, I'd like to find somebody who can tell me for sure which transfer case the van actually has (and which specifications / options it has).. I've got pictures and a number..

Midwestdrifter
05-16-2018, 08:35 PM
Post a photo of the front axle setup, we might be able to provide some feedback.

It is possible the diff is seized. However, if part of the front rotation components is bent or out of true, the resulting bending on the axle could cause it break in short order. Having all the rotating assemblies checked with a dial indicator for runout and axial alignment.

Alwin
05-16-2018, 09:35 PM
Post a photo of the front axle setup, we might be able to provide some feedback.

It is possible the diff is seized. However, if part of the front rotation components is bent or out of true, the resulting bending on the axle could cause it break in short order. Having all the rotating assemblies checked with a dial indicator for runout and axial alignment.

These are the only pictures I currently have from the front axle setup, as I'm interested in buying this vehicle and it isn't mine (yet) I can't make more pictures right away. Although I'm in good contact with the seller and he might be able to provide more, but this is all I have right now. (Taken after it broke for the 2nd time.)

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97246&stc=1&d=1526506418

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97247&stc=1&d=1526506418

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97248&stc=1&d=1526506418

AdrianD
05-17-2018, 05:18 AM
Thanks AdrianD!

Regarding the axle, the previous owners had an accident where they rolled from ice into a ditch (drivers side). Nothing too bad, mainly cosmetic damage, had it repaired.. drove a few miles and the axle (drivers side) broke.. Had this one replaced and repaired, apparently everything worked fine, drove again a few miles and it broke again..



Is 4x4 disengaged? Is it breaking on hard surfaces?

What part breaks? The inner shaft? Outer shaft? The CV-joint?

Even if it's not yours (yet?) every bit of information you can get is helpful :)

If 4x4 is disengaged, the axle housing might be bent if it keeps breaking axle shafts after the accident. With the speed it breaks you don't get to see any seals leaking because of the bend.

I bought my Jeep not knowing it has a bent axle housing, the short tube was dislodged from the pumpkin (stupid me, the previous owner even posted about it on the forum but I failed to make the connection) and I could drive it for quite some time before a seal went and it started leaking. Driver's side camber was off but that was it.

Regarding the locker, the OEM setup on the G is hydraulically actuated and it uses an external slave cylinder on the axle. It looks like in the attached picture.
As for aftermarket selectable lockers, if you won't have a wire or hose going in the diff, the differential is either open or has an automatic locker, the likes of a Detroit or even a lunchbox locker.

Midwestdrifter
05-17-2018, 05:29 AM
Sounds like a bent housing. Too much wheel angle when turning will break cvs, if it's stuck in 4x4 it will break stuff on hard surfaces.

Alwin
05-17-2018, 08:02 PM
Is 4x4 disengaged? Is it breaking on hard surfaces?

What part breaks? The inner shaft? Outer shaft? The CV-joint?

Even if it's not yours (yet?) every bit of information you can get is helpful :)


Just the inner shaft broke (twice) and according to the information I have it broke on a regular road in 2wd mode.


If 4x4 is disengaged, the axle housing might be bent if it keeps breaking axle shafts after the accident. With the speed it breaks you don't get to see any seals leaking because of the bend.

I bought my Jeep not knowing it has a bent axle housing, the short tube was dislodged from the pumpkin (stupid me, the previous owner even posted about it on the forum but I failed to make the connection) and I could drive it for quite some time before a seal went and it started leaking. Driver's side camber was off but that was it.


I never thought about the housing, I'll check this! Thanks!


Regarding the locker, the OEM setup on the G is hydraulically actuated and it uses an external slave cylinder on the axle. It looks like in the attached picture.
As for aftermarket selectable lockers, if you won't have a wire or hose going in the diff, the differential is either open or has an automatic locker, the likes of a Detroit or even a lunchbox locker.

Which picture do you mean with this exactly? The first picture from the transfer case I posted a few days ago right?

Eric Experience
05-18-2018, 11:33 AM
Alwin.
Do we know which front axle it is? The G wagon track is too narrow to fit under a sprinter so if it is an ex Gwagon axle it must lengthened some how, can you get a picture of the broken part? Eric.

Alwin
05-19-2018, 09:22 AM
Alwin.
Do we know which front axle it is? The G wagon track is too narrow to fit under a sprinter so if it is an ex Gwagon axle it must lengthened some how, can you get a picture of the broken part? Eric.

No I donít know which front axle they used, nor how they adjusted it..
I was hoping to find out more about the standard setup (if thereís one) from Oberaigner with this post. Iíve also emailed Oberaigner directly, but no luck so far.

No picture yet, Iíll forward it if I get one!

AdrianD
05-21-2018, 08:34 AM
Which picture do you mean with this exactly? The first picture from the transfer case I posted a few days ago right?

The picture I attached, with the drain plug torque.

Alwin
05-21-2018, 11:01 AM
The picture I attached, with the drain plug torque.

Sorry, of course!

AdrianD
05-21-2018, 02:12 PM
Alwin.
Do we know which front axle it is? The G wagon track is too narrow to fit under a sprinter so if it is an ex Gwagon axle it must lengthened some how, can you get a picture of the broken part? Eric.

Is the difference so big that it cannot be compensated with different offset wheels?

Sorry, of course!

No worries!

Alwin
05-22-2018, 07:11 AM
Iglhaut released information about their conversions and they stated that they made their own adjustments to the front axle. I don’t have access to my laptop right now so I can’t tell you what exactly they stated, will look this up!

Never heard about a solution wir different wheels, I think of even possible it would shift the problem to the other side?

Unfortunately this particular vehicle was converted by Oberaigner and not by Iglhaut. It seems logical that the whole front axle setup and transfer case come front the same vehicle.

AdrianD
05-23-2018, 05:19 AM
Never heard about a solution wir different wheels, I think of even possible it would shift the problem to the other side?



I was mentioning different offset wheels to make up the difference in axle width from the G-wagen to the Sprinter.

Alwin
09-02-2018, 04:13 AM
Alwin.
Do we know which front axle it is? The G wagon track is too narrow to fit under a sprinter so if it is an ex Gwagon axle it must lengthened some how, can you get a picture of the broken part? Eric.


Sorry picking up the old thread, but here two pictures from the broken part.

Anyone an idea how an drive shaft could break like this, other then a bend axle housing, if the diff isn't seized and there's no diff lock?