2016 Sprinter 2500 Cargo Vans DEF Nightmare

hksnlper

New member
Hi Guys,

I have a fleet of 7 sprinters bought all Brand new in 2016. They spend more time in shops rather than on the road making money.

Constant DEF Problems

only 2 codes on all of them

P20E8 & P2BA7

I have heard all kind of excuses from MB dealership about NOX sensor to fill tube to metered valve and all kinds of crap. Luckily I bought the extended 150K miles warranty so except a few small little charges I didn't have to pay any big repair bills. My main concern is the reliability of these vans.

1 year time frame 4 to 5 breakdowns each van and always DEF
Down time & Rentals which of course MB does not cover

I have read about the Bypass Module for AD Blue and I am seriously considering it. Just want to know if any one from the forum ever tried this on the sprinter vans.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCR-AdBlue...-Mercedes-BlueTec-cars-and-vans-/232283922022
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
How are the vans being used? If your breaking down 4-5 times a year for each van..... I don't even know where to begin. That's way beyond the norm.
 

hksnlper

New member
How are the vans being used? If your breaking down 4-5 times a year for each van..... I don't even know where to begin. That's way beyond the norm.
Vans are being used for package delivery business no heavy loads of any kind. Its only breaking down due to def. Driver put def in and reset does not work. Starts become limited and a trip to dealer is necessary
 

sailquik

Well-known member
hksniper,
Your drivers are adding approved DEF Fluid?
Which brand and what size container?
When do they add the DEF fluid (within a few miles of the Low DEF Fluid warning......or longer)?
Are all your Sprinters OM-642 V6 engines with 5G-Tronic 5 speed transmissions or are some of them OM-651 I4 engines with the 7G-Tronic 7 speeds transmissions?
With that many Sprinters, have you considered purchasing the DEF fluid in a bulk container and making a DEF level check part of the pre-trip/pre-delivery route morning safety check?
I totally agree.....way outside the normal, if the DEF is being replenished as soon as the warning shows up and if the DEF Fluid used is high purity and meets all the specifications.
Roger
 
Last edited:

hksnlper

New member
hksniper,
Your drivers are adding approved DEF Fluid?
Which brand and what size container?
When do they add the DEF fluid (within a few miles of the Low DEF Fluid warning......or longer)?
Are all your Sprinters OM-642 V6 engines with 5G-Tronic 5 speed transmissions or are some of them OM-651 I4 engines with the 7G-Tronic 7 speeds transmissions?
With that many Sprinters, have you considered purchasing the DEF fluid in a bulk container and making a DEF level check part of the pre-trip/pre-delivery route morning safety check?
I totally agree.....way outside the normal, if the DEF is being replenished as soon as the warning shows up and if the DEF Fluid used is high purity and meets all the specifications.
Roger

Let me just make it simple for every one.

DEF is being added by drivers out on the route when the light comes on.
DEF is approved Brand PEAK Blue DEF Bottles
All Sprinters are 2016 4 Cylinder Turbo 2500 170 WB 3DR Full-Size 4X2 A7
We don't buy DEF in Bulk Due to Shelve Life. That is why We buy Fresh Stock Every Month

Regardless of all precautions I am having the same issues over and over again and Frankly I am just tired.

I also have a Fleet of 14 Freightliners which have the Cummins 5.9 6BT 12 Valve Engines and They are hands down the best Trucks Reliability wise.

The only reason I got sprinters was due to the Rural Route Travel distance and speed.
 

Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
Vans are being used for package delivery business no heavy loads of any kind. Its only breaking down due to def. Driver put def in and reset does not work. Starts become limited and a trip to dealer is necessary
Dismayed to hear of your problems. A couple of thoughts....

Contrary to what the Boyz at the Benz store have recommended in the past (and I have no data support my position - except it seems to be working for me with an RV), you need to periodically fill the DEF tank and NOT WAIT until the service light comes on. My rationale is that DEF dries out and creates those white crystals you see around the top of a badly maintained tank. Keeping the tank full-ish reduces the possibility of this 'crud' from forming in the tank. And as Roger has suggested checking and 'topping up' should be a mandatory practice when performing Preventive Checks, Maintainence & Services BEFORE hitting the street.

There have been some software updates on our '14. Free. I understand they may have improved the DEF/SCR system's performance. Also, I believe some of the sensors have been updated/redesigned/improved.

Last.... the DEF cap, the tank's neck and area, the funnel (suggested to use), AND the bottle of DEF have to be surgically clean. My rationale is that any small bit of debris, dirt, dust, etc., etc., that happens to fall into that tank will cause problems.

I hope this helps.

Meanwhile, I'd be contacting Mother Benz and have a conversation about your 7 Sprinters; their failure rate, and your expectation that Mother will continue to repair them. Extended emissions warranty or not. They need to find a solution.
 

avanti

2022 Ford Transit 3500
Dismayed to hear of your problems. A couple of thoughts....

Contrary to what the Boyz at the Benz store have recommended in the past (and I have no data support my position - except it seems to be working for me with an RV), you need to periodically fill the DEF tank and NOT WAIT until the service light comes on. My rationale is that DEF dries out and creates those white crystals you see around the top of a badly maintained tank. Keeping the tank full-ish reduces the possibility of this 'crud' from forming in the tank. And as Roger has suggested checking and 'topping up' should be a mandatory practice when performing Preventive Checks, Maintainence & Services BEFORE hitting the street.

There have been some software updates on our '14. Free. I understand they may have improved the DEF/SCR system's performance. Also, I believe some of the sensors have been updated/redesigned/improved.

Last.... the DEF cap, the tank's neck and area, the funnel (suggested to use), AND the bottle of DEF have to be surgically clean. My rationale is that any small bit of debris, dirt, dust, etc., etc., that happens to fall into that tank will cause problems.
I tend to agree with all three points. I have converted from the "wait for the first message" school of thought to "keep it topped up". I am not sure about the "white crystal" theory, but Dennis has offered the alternative explanation that waiting for the warning tickles bugs in the system that cascade to failures. Not sure we will ever know for sure, but I see no harm in topping up, and we have two different reasons to suspect that it might help.

The sensors have definitely been updated repeatedly, so we can only hope that they are actually getting better.

The "keep it clean" advice is just good hygiene.
 

hksnlper

New member
What are your thoughts on eliminating DEF with the AD BLUE Bypass Module?

Has anyone ever tried something like that before and does it work?
 

avanti

2022 Ford Transit 3500
What are your thoughts on eliminating DEF with the AD BLUE Bypass Module?

Has anyone ever tried something like that before and does it work?
Even if you believe that this would be ethically acceptable, I would think that as a fleet operator, you would consider the substantial legal exposure to be unwise.
 

pfflyer

Well-known member
Agree with Crow as to the solution. To help others out, how many miles per day average? How many stops and distance between stops average? It took 4 visits to fix mine because MB would only approve under warranty what seems like the most cost effective part replacement before a complete system replacement. About 100 to 200 miles between visits and van was out of service 8 work days total. I top mine off about once a month with a hand siphon pump which helps control spillage and over filling.
 
I have the same model Sprinter. Like Roger said I typically top off DEF 1500 miles just for thought and Yes Check List


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

cvo

Active member
I top off the DEF every 2500 miles, never wait for the light. I have 70K now and I've never had any DEF problems on my 2014.
 

Ldfeat

Member
I've read where Walmart DEF bottles are being returned with water in them for a refund. I always remove the cap to check the seal. I have found many with a lose seal or a couple with no seal. Just saying...
 
might have been asked, are the problems occurring at same mileage on the various van s ??

emission issues so far for me on my 2015 sprinter, has been nox sensor, and the particulate trap replaced due to cracked flex connector.

my 2012 s350 with same engine set up basically has only had a computer blip on reading def levels. only little scary part, I have only 27xxx miles on it and it s outta warranty completely now I think.

all in the 60xxx mile range
 

JFM

Member
The only problem I got on my 2015 2500 LR 4x4 is the $@&?% NOx sensor at 80K km, even if I have always top off DEF with quality fluid. M-B replaced the "upstream" 4th generation sensor by the improved 5th generation sensor (better mechanical response to large temperature variation seen by these devices), which is the latest available. I guess you have this version in your 2016. If not, you can fight with M-B to have these upgraded under warranty as I did. I hope they have finally found "the" solution with this fifth iteration... This said, my opinion is that the DPF/SCR is a simple system with very extreme operating conditions; it is almost impossible to avoid breakage in these conditions, specifically the temperature variation experienced by the system (like -40 °C to +360 °C in matter of minutes!). Statistically speaking, IMO, a large number of owners will have one of these high TCE subject parts eventually fail (i.e. both NOx, bracket, dosing valve, temp sensor); we just have to hope that it will happen inside the warranty period or that we have paid our trucks and have put money aside to cover the repairs...

I do not count on M-B to issue a recall or provide an extended warranty period on these...
 

avanti

2022 Ford Transit 3500
I've read where Walmart DEF bottles are being returned with water in them for a refund. I always remove the cap to check the seal. I have found many with a lose seal or a couple with no seal. Just saying...
Only Walmart and not other retailers?
Only DEF bottles and not other fluids?
No offense, but this has all the trappings of an urban myth.
How about citing a source?
 

4wheeldog

2018 144" Tall Revel
Only Walmart and not other retailers?
Only DEF bottles and not other fluids?
No offense, but this has all the trappings of an urban myth.
How about citing a source?
Walmart seems to attract the best of the best. I have witnessed used oil filters in new boxes.....And they had a spate of people returning oil jugs, with used oil in them.
I always check the filter box seals, and the seals on oil jugs.
First time I have heard of DEF being swapped out. Hardly seems worth the effort, given the price.
 

avanti

2022 Ford Transit 3500
...improved 5th generation sensor (better mechanical response to large temperature variation seen by these devices), which is the latest available.
...
specifically the temperature variation experienced by the system (like -40 °C to +360 °C in matter of minutes!).
Interesting. So, you are saying that the gen-5 sensors specifically are intended to have improved thermal robustness?

As I have reported before, my sole nox sensor failure happened during a hard drive on a very hot Texas day almost immediately after filling my DEF tank from a truck stop pump station with underground storage. I always wondered if the thermal shock from the cold DEF fluid might have been causative. Some folks find this implausible, and I fully understand that coincidences happen, but still... I guess this could be yet another unproven reason for topping up rather than waiting for the warning. :idunno:
 
Last edited:

Top Bottom