All 6 Glow Plugs Simultaneous Failure

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Emgo

Member
I have 2010 with about 180,000 miles. I’ve owned it about 2 months and have owned many diesels over last 20 years. I’m in middle TN and over the Christmas/New Year’s Holidays it was very cold here. I was curious about how well the van would start in cold weather. I tried it a couple of times on 12/14 degree mornings, waited for the glow plug to go out, about 5 seconds I think and it fired right up. Then we had a 5 degree morning so I waited for the glow plug light to go off, maybe 8 or 10 seconds, turn the switch and it hit but did not start. In my experience not too unusual for a diesel on a really cold morning so I cycled the ignition tried again with the same result. After a few tries and still no start I realized the check engine light was on and the glow plug light was on I plugged my Icarsoft MBII diagnostic tool in. I didn’t write the codes down but it said all 6 glow plugs had open circuits and that all 6 were shorted to ground which seems extremely unlikely. After I cleared the codes I always came back with all 6 had open circuit with I thought nearly impossible for all 6 to fail at once. I pulled the controller to get a close look at the pins for corrosion and the bottom cover was loose and it appeared to be an aftermarket controller. I should have ohmed out the glow plugs then but I didn’t. I guessed the controller was the problem mostly because moisture could have entered it and it was aftermarket. Order a Beru with Mercedes emblem part number A6429005801. Plugged it in still no start, same codes open circuit. Now I check the resistance on a couple of glow plugs directly on the glow plug eliminating any other possible wiring/connection issue. They are open. Has anyone experienced this? I’ve been calling myself a mechanic for many years and never seen a complete set fail at one time on any diesel. So what did I do wrong? Any ideas why all 6 failed at once? They worked correctly many times until that 5 degree morning.

Thanks,
Ken
 
2

220629

Well-known member
The 2010 glow plugs receive a conditioned lower voltage, not 12 volts.

A couple possibilities.
The aftermarket controller supplied too high of a voltage and burned out the glow plugs for some reason. It could just be the wrong part.

Moisture or water as you mentioned either conducted the full 12 volts, or some other voltage, or otherwise caused the glow plugs to get more voltage than designed.

:2cents: vic
 
CJPJ

CJPJ

2008 3500 170 EXTD 3.0 V6 OM642.993 4.182
It may be the controller you purchased is for the higher voltage ceramic glow plugs, lower voltage steel glow plugs are used in the sprinter.

My MB controll unit: part number A 642 900 58 01

Have been known to be wrongly packaged; check the part number on the controll unit.
 
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Emgo

Member
What should be correct controller part number for 2010? I had read about the steel and ceramic glow plugs. I think 4.4 volts for the steel. Everything I could find said part number A6429005801 was correct for a 2010. It does say 12 volt on the controller but I thought that indicated it was for a 12 volt system. It's not too uncommon for diesels to be 24 volts. So what year range had the steels and when the did the ceramics start being used?
Ken
 
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Emgo

Member
So if the controller I purchased has an output of more than about 5 volts it would be the wrong one? Forget about that last question. Thanks CJPJ, that thread will get me headed the right direction.

Ken
 
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sailquik

sailquik

Well-known member
Emgo,
Did the MB Parts counter where you bought your glow plugs/glow plug controller ask you for your VIM#?
The entire MB Sprinter (I guess all Mercedes Benz vehicles) is completely based on the individual vehicles
VIN# to get the correct parts.
If there are upgraded/improved parts, the parts Database will have that information based on your Sprinter's
VIN #.
If you just bought the GP controller/GP's without the VIN #, or bought them by the part numbers, you could very
easily get the wrong parts or old specification parts without the upgrades.
Roger
 
2

220629

Well-known member
CJPJ said:
[2010] Sprinters don't use the ceramic GP
Click to expand...
lindenengineering said:
...

Yes some of the Bluetech engines have ceramic glows.
Only recently I had a [Sprinter] van in with the same predicament as yours, mismatched parts.
In this case the call was for ceramic glow plugs per spec.
The glow plug module was for steel glows.(recently installed upside down)
Since the correct module is on backorder we simply installed a set of steel "glows" to jive with the module (re-orientated ) and all was good!
All the best
Dennis
Click to expand...
vic
 
E

Emgo

Member
I did all the research I could and purchased from Amazon.

After I read the referenced thread and considering the module was held on with one bolt I'm guessing it was the wrong module. That few extra seconds of glow time on that really cold morning probably fried all 6 plugs. I'll check the output from this new module and purchase the correct glow plugs to work with it. I'll probably have more questions.
Ken
 
CJPJ

CJPJ

2008 3500 170 EXTD 3.0 V6 OM642.993 4.182
Aqua Puttana said:
If it isn't a BlueTec engine it has steel GP's. Refer back to Dennis' post.

vic
Click to expand...
BlueTec sprinters use steel GP's, other bluetec applications ML, S-class, .. use ceramic glow plugs. (as per Dennis's post).

Of course the sprinter can be converted.
 
2

220629

Well-known member
CJPJ said:
Aqua Puttana said:
If it isn't a BlueTec engine it has steel GP's. Refer back to Dennis' post.

vic
Click to expand...
BlueTec sprinters use steel GP's, other bluetec applications ML, S-class, .. use ceramic glow plugs. (as per Dennis's post).

Of course the sprinter can be converted.
Click to expand...
:idunno:

If the information that Dennis posted is correct, my statement is correct. Pre-BlueTec Sprinters will have steel GP's. The "van" [Sprinter] that Dennis mentioned had the wrong controller installed (upside down) for the Ceramic GP's which it had OEM. His temporary solution was to install steel glow plugs (to match the incorrect controller type) until the correct parts were sourced.

Emgo has a Bluetec Sprinter which can have steel OR ceramic so he needs to establish what his Sprinter needs. Sailquik Roger has already pointed out that the dealership can verify the proper parts using VIN number. I would use that method.


Emgo said:
Steel glow plugs need 4.4 volts and ceramic operate off 7 volts, is that correct?
Click to expand...
This post would suggest that.

tfhadlock said:
SPRINTER USES 2 DIFFERENT GLOW PLUG SYSTEMS, DEPENDING ON THE MODEL YEAR.
GLOW PLUG VOLTAGE. SOME MODULES ARE 7 VOLTS...SOME ARE 4.4VOLTS
...
I believe it was mid 2012 when Mercedes Sprinter changed the glow system to a higher voltage system with "ceramic glow plus". This is the 7 volt system. Ceramic glow plugs rated for 7 volts combined with a control module which delivers 7 volts.
...

Tim, Willoughby Lake, in Northern Vermont
Click to expand...
The newer higher voltage controller burns out the lower voltage steel GP's. Likely the lower voltage steel GP controller just doesn't control the ceramic GP's properly (no actual damage), but I'm not certain.

vic
 
S

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
Emgo said:
Steel glow plugs need 4.4 volts and ceramic operate off 7 volts, is that correct?
Click to expand...
Both types of plugs are controlled by a PWM (pulse width modulation) signal that essentially turns power on and off rapidly (think a square wave) with a duty cycle as required to heat the plug to the target temperature. For this reason voltage measurements made at the plug tip don't mean much as a diagnostic tool but if you looked on a scope you'd probably see that the 'on' voltage was different for the two types of controllers. But in any event you must have the correct unit to match the plugs of course. It's not really rocket science to get the correct controller for the V6 unless you have a 2012 (the year the controller changed in mid-year, in which case you need to be careful), but even pro mechanics seem to occasionally screw up.
 
E

Emgo

Member
smiller, thanks for that additional info. I have a Fluke 199C so I can capture the square wave output and measure peak to peak voltage. I'll attempt to use the all the correct parts to prevent confusion for the next person who works on this.

Ken
 
L

lindenengineering

Well-known member
smiller said:
Both types of plugs are controlled by a PWM (pulse width modulation) signal that essentially turns power on and off rapidly (think a square wave) with a duty cycle as required to heat the plug to the target temperature. For this reason voltage measurements made at the plug tip don't mean much as a diagnostic tool but if you looked on a scope you'd probably see that the 'on' voltage was different for the two types of controllers. But in any event you must have the correct unit to match the plugs of course. It's not really rocket science to get the correct controller for the V6 unless you have a 2012 (the year the controller changed in mid-year, in which case you need to be careful), but even pro mechanics seem to occasionally screw up.
Click to expand...
but even pro mechanics seem to occasionally screw up.[/QUOTE]
Yes we have a couple of times where the glow plug controller has been mis-boxed from the MB supplier or Mr No-body (aka the nodding dogs in the shop, & suppliers have mixed up steel and ceramic glows in the same parts boxes.
Pays to check before installing.
Dennis
 
2

220629

Well-known member
As usual Europarts SD provides some good information with their parts description. Worth checking. Europarts SD prices are generally good. They have a good reputation here.



http://europarts-sd.com/glowplugcontrolunit2007-2009.asp

GPcontrolSteel.jpg

As of today.
Europarts SD said:
Glow Plug Control Unit 3.0L V6 2007-Mid 2012
Glow plug control unit for all V6 diesel engine models from 2007 thru June 15, 2012 (up to engine number 41330713). It is to be used only with Beru or Bosch steel glow plugs (4.4 volts). DO NOT USE THIS WITH THE LATER CERAMIC GLOW PLUS (7 volts), MADE BY NGK (2012 and later)

This unit is manufactured by Beru and is the exact same unit sold at a Dodge, Freightliner or Mercedes dealer.

This is the newest and third revision and most current version of this unit. It is considerably smaller than the earliest unit.
Click to expand...
Ceramic

http://europarts-sd.com/item.asp?cID=41&PID=2463

GPcontrolCeramic.jpg

Europarts SD said:
Glow Plug Control Unit 3.0L V6 Mid 2012-2018
Glow plug control unit for all V6 diesel engine models, Mid 2012 and later. (From June 15, 2012, Engine number 41330714 and later). It is to be used ONLY with the NGK ceramic core glow plugs. DO NOT use this unit with any steel core glow plugs (4.4 volts) made by Bosch or Beru.

This unit is manufactured by Beru and is the exact same unit sold at a Dodge, Freightliner or Mercedes dealer.
Click to expand...
vic
 
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