Interesting info re OBD being confused by Espar removal.

Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
I have 4 working gps and a good decoy gp, so my OBD does not throw gp codes.
At some point in December I pulled the Espar for servicing, put a piece of pipe across the in and out hoses and kept driving. That was when I started getting OBD codes telling me the gp module was recording faults (sorry can't remember the codes). I cleared it, and it popped up again and did not self clear as the gp code does if I drive and do enough warm starts. I suspected a bad gp module, but as the van was generally starting well(except at (-20C) I figured I would work it out.
After I reinstalled the Espar, the CEL disappeared.
I have a pretty basic scanner, Autel 619.
Nothing really changed other than Espar out, Espar back in.
So I guess my scanner wrongly interpreted a line of code and called it GP module error(or something like that) and that a missing Espar throws a code?
I had thought the Espar was not actively communicating with the ecm.
 

220629

Well-known member
...
So I guess my scanner wrongly interpreted a line of code and called it GP module error(or something like that) and that a missing Espar throws a code?
I had thought the Espar was not actively communicating with the ecm.
Not in my experience.

I ran for a year with my Espar out of the 2004 van. Never any spurious codes or anomalies.

I sealed the electrical connector well to protect it. It was not just hanging out in the air.

The Espar connections do include K-line access. If the connector wasn't properly sealed a bit of water might bridge connections and cause spurious codes. That problem would be magnified if it was winter or otherwise salty water.

:cheers: vic
 

Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
Well the Espar removal was a coincidence, same set of codes got thrown again today. Not trouble starting so who knows. Here they are.

P0671 $12
Cylinder number 1 glow plug circuit/ open
P0380. $12
Glow plug /heater circuit A
P9672. $12
Cylinder number 2 glow plug circuit/ open

If memory serves this got thrown last time, all new gps. The first and third would probably clear by themselves after the required number of good starts, the 2nd one P0380 is what made me think maybe the module was losing it, module is 18 months old, 12 months of which it was not used.
 
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Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
The glow plug controller is right down besides the eSpar heater so you probably disturbed the wiring.
 

Goofy foot

sliding left...
While you're down there, there are 2 ground locations between the GP module and Espar that always need a check.
 

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VinceP

2005 158" High Roof Pass.
Salut Patrick,

Interesting that I have the EXACT same codes on my 2005 T1N, but only when attempted to start the van by cold weather like last week in Montréal. If the temp is warmer (like today), or the van is connected to the block heater, the codes are not coming back (I am clearing the codes at each drive with by Bluetooth BlueDriver scanner with my IPhone). The codes are only appearing when the GP heat duration is longer, like 20 secondes. If the GP light comes on for 5-10 sec, no code is thrown...
I know for a fact that GP's are 3-4 years old, but no clue about the module.

Just weird that we have the same codes with same weather here... I have the Espar with 7-day timer, but it is not working. Just got the van 2 weeks ago, did not work around the Espar yet.

Any ideas, guys?
 

FelixTheDodge

New member
Huh, well this is a funny coincidence. I have a 2006 T1N 3500, also throwing glow plug codes (P0380, P067x) intermittently.

Previous owner changed #1,3,4 glow plugs in March of last year. His records note that the MIL went off after doing so.
I bought the van in April, at which time the van had MIL on - DTCs P0674 (cyl#4), P0671 (cyl#1), and P0380. I had plugs #1,4 as well as the controller replaced (at Linden Engineering). MIL went off.
I did not drive the van much over the summer, but by autumn I was seeing my MIL on again intermittently - now DTCs P0672 (cyl#2), P0671 (cyl#1), and P0380.

I have noticed that colder weather tends to trigger the MIL/DTCs. Strangely, fueling up seems to help clear the MIL! (This has happened 3 or 4 times, if my memory is correct -- first start-up after fueling up and the MIL is gone).

Intermittent glow-plug related DTCs seem to be common in the T1Ns. Some helpful threads:

CEL related to Glow Plugs
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37388

Much depends on your Glow Plug controller. the later ones are self resetting. The original ones blew internal fuses (and there is a mod to make these changable).
[...]
You may have an open / flaky glow plug or a bad wire connection to one of the glow plugs. Since you can plug thr glow plug wires in an any order you want on a T1N, knowing which one failed only lets you know that one of them is bad (but not really which one).
[...]

In my experience the glow plug DTC will come and go related to ambient temperatures. When the glow plugs aren't needed the ECM doesn't know that they are bad. If the ambient temps remain above about 40F through enough start/run cycles the MIL aka CEL will go out. If the ambient temp again goes low the fault will return and the MIL will light.

What you are seeing was typical for my 2004 when I had bad glow plugs.
[...]Do not replace the glow plug controller until the glow plug fault(s) are corrected.
[...]
Glow Plug #1 Open Circuit but still showing battery voltage
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60714
(in NCV3 section, but has some good info on testing for glow plug open circuit, also see Dr.A's method below)

Glow plug replacement questions
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=743
(a 29 page beast of a thread)

[...]
See my old original post for making a simple fused glow plug test wire. https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5232&postcount=17

Connect to each glow plug pin socket in the engine harness connector at the glow module, one at a time. Simply brush the clip you would normally clamp to the battery + post, across the + post, for each glow plug pin test.

Pins are numbered on back side of plug with an accurate glow plug location.

A strong, harsh spark (if you're quick) or a blown fuse (if you're slow) indicates a failed shorted plug.

A gentle brush of sparks ,and no blow 20A fuse in 10 second, indicates a operating glow plug.

NO sparking indicates a open circuit glow plug.

Easy to see in strong daylight.

Doktor A

From Aqua Puttana's Cheap Tricks - [AP's] Experience Changing Glow Plugs

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=117395#post117395

2006 GlowPlug Relay: how to test?

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50667

Glow Plug Codes
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44216

[...]
An "open circuit" could mean that the plugs have broken elements which separate (pull apart) when chilled.
Or that the wires/clips in their connectors are doing that... or that the module's connectors are loose.
[...]
Codes PO380 & PO671
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23906

[...]
You might also have a suspect harness so its worth Ohming it out and look for shorting/ damage etc.
[...]
I hope you are using a genuine MB glow--NO Chinese stuff--unless you want to invite trouble!
Dennis
-----

I am currently focusing a getting my Espar working and converted from a "Booster Heater" to an "Aux Heater" (for pre-heating the engine on really cold days), but have a new GP controller and GPs waiting to be installed sometime soon too. I will follow up here if I learn anything new.
 

Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
P9672 is the heater circuit A code, and that one doesn't seem to self erase after multiple warm starts like the gp codes do(will). When I had one gp disconnected for a long while(as I was working on getting one out at a time). The CEL would go out after a few warmer starts durin the day. The P9672 stays light once it has been triggered until I use a scanner to,clear it.
 

FelixTheDodge

New member
Oh! I misread that DTC as P0672 (Cylinder number 2 glow plug circuit/ open). My MIL is intermittent, so I assume that all of my codes are self-clearing.

I did learn today that 12 hours at 14*F (with presumably non-winterized fuel) will result in a no-start condition. It looks like gelling was the culprit (D911 fixed it), but I don't think my two bad GPs helped the situation. I also learned today that "winterized fuel" is something that one should know about, as an operator of a diesel vehicle :hmmm:
 

SneakyAnarchistVanCamper

Reading till my eyesbleed
I would clean the ground goofy mentioned, then remove, open and inspect glow plug module (see thread here on modification to add fuses). Disconnect negative batt terminal and clean connections in PDC (power distribution center, black box on battery).
 

FelixTheDodge

New member
For what it is worth, I replaced all 5 of my glowplugs (Borg Warner 001 159 49 01) and glowplug controller (648 900 00 00), and no DTCs have returned after a half-dozen cold (10 to 30°F) starts. I have removed and replaced my Espar during this time as well (though I don't think I ran the van with the Espar unplugged, for what that's worth). The grounds goofy mentioned looked okay on my van, and I had recently cleaned my PDC already.

I had my Espar diagnosed at LinDen (thanks Den and team!) and it was showing blower motor faults (short, short, open, short, open), so I think I will be replacing the heater assembly.

~

Kind of off-topic (apologies), but might be of interest: I did have another no-start incident after replacing my GPs and controller (this time it was 24+ hrs at ~0°F). This time I replaced my fuel filter and filled the new filter half-way with Diesel 911 before installing. When I drained the old filter, there were some blobs floating in the diesel. This was the same filter that was installed in my van when I had the prior gelling/no-start incident. (Maybe I should have replaced it after the prior gelling incident anyway? At the time, the person helping me just put the Diesel 911 in to the fuel tank and did not touch the fuel filter.)
 

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