Question on Order of Operations-Front End Work

Hey All,

I own a 2006 2500 with 281k miles on it. I've put the thing through the ringer since January putting 13k miles on it. I'm currently out west, where a summer of driving washboard and dirt roads seems to have taken it's toll on the front end.

I wanted to inquire as to the appropriate order of operations in repairs so I don't spend more money than I need to, or fix something before something that takes more priority, (I may have already screwed up here).

Before leaving the east coast for Oregon I did not get an alignment, it's something that slipped through the cracks during the other maintenance I had lined up.

Right before I left Oregon to road trip to Arizona, I got the rear u-bolts replaced. One of the front struts was starting to leak, and I was in a time crunch, so I didn't get those replaced. I didn't get an alignment either since I'd be replacing the struts.

I drove ~1000 miles down to Arizona, and just replaced the front struts (Koni's). The main symptom I have is a rumbling when I am turning the wheels, this mainly happens at a crawl, and not at higher speeds. I think it is coming from the driver side.

The boot on the driver side ball joint doesn't seam to want to stay seated, but looks like it is filled with plenty of grease. There is some lateral play when I jack the vehicle and push and pull on the mounted tire.

On the passenger side the play isn't nearly as noticeable. The boot on the ball joints stays seated much better. When I was inspecting it, some grease oozed out from the bottom.

Now that the front struts are replaced, the front wheels seem even more out of alignment, which I am wondering whether or not contributes to the rumbling when turning.

I am wondering what is the best course of action. I like to do most work on the van myself, and have done all the work on it except the u-bolts. I am thinking that now I need to replace the ball joints, which sounds like quite the job for someone working alone. I also badly need an alignment now, as the angle of the wheels looks so bad I think I'll really hurt the tires.

With the ball joints in their current condition, I'm also wondering how safe it is to be driving the van.

Pictures attached.



Any insight is much appreciated!

Max

Max.
The ball joints usually last the life of the vehicle, changing them usually leads to further problems. The wheels in your photo are like that because you have just jacked it up, move it slightly and they will be normal. Test your alignment by sliding you hand over the tread in the east west direction, if the tread is smooth you are ok, if the tread is saw toothed you may need to adjust the tow, use logic to determine which way, only move the tow about one tenth of a turn max. Eric

There are only 2 possible adjustments on the T1N front end. The first is the toe. In your case just get it set to zero plus or minus 0.16 degrees loaded as it will be most of the time. Do this AFTER installing camber shims if needed.


The second adjustment is camber via aftermarket camber shims, which are available in 1 or 2 degree sizes. Generally you will only need shims if you van is very lightly or heavily loaded, and/or your replacement shocks are not quite square at the flanges (happens on occasion).

http://amzn.to/2kaxgs3

http://amzn.to/2kcGyUw

Once the boot breaks loose on the lower ball joints, it is just a matter of time until the grease washes out, and grit starts wearing the joint seat.

There are aftermarket lower control arms available with fresh ball joints pressed in. I am not sure of the quality. They may place the wheel slightly farther back, which may cause trouble if you have larger than stock tires.


If your camber was correct prior to swapping the struts, they may not have slightly off flanges.



If you tires are wearing okay, then your toe is probably fine. However if you have excessive camber, you will have wear on the edge of your tires, which will shorten their life. A good rotation scheme can mitigate this somewhat.


The rumbling while turning may be low power steering fluid, of wear in the steering rack.

Eric Experience said:

Max.
The ball joints usually last the life of the vehicle, changing them usually leads to further problems. The wheels in your photo are like that because you have just jacked it up, move it slightly and they will be normal. Test your alignment by sliding you hand over the tread in the east west direction, if the tread is smooth you are ok, if the tread is saw toothed you may need to adjust the tow, use logic to determine which way, only move the tow about one tenth of a turn max. Eric

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice on tow, I'll read more into that and what to look for.

There are only 2 possible adjustments on the T1N front end. The first is the toe. In your case just get it set to zero plus or minus 0.16 degrees loaded as it will be most of the time. Do this AFTER installing camber shims if needed.


The second adjustment is camber via aftermarket camber shims, which are available in 1 or 2 degree sizes. Generally you will only need shims if you van is very lightly or heavily loaded, and/or your replacement shocks are not quite square at the flanges (happens on occasion).

http://amzn.to/2kaxgs3

http://amzn.to/2kcGyUw

I think my only issue here is that I don't know what degree shims I would need, I'm guessing I need to use a protractor to measure? Also, I'm wondering if the positive camber on the wheels could be due to the transverse spring being worn out? I need to check that too.

Once the boot breaks loose on the lower ball joints, it is just a matter of time until the grease washes out, and grit starts wearing the joint seat.

There are aftermarket lower control arms available with fresh ball joints pressed in. I am not sure of the quality. They may place the wheel slightly farther back, which may cause trouble if you have larger than stock tires.


If your camber was correct prior to swapping the struts, they may not have slightly off flanges.
Camber was not correct before the struts, still seemed to have a positive camber.


If you tires are wearing okay, then your toe is probably fine. However if you have excessive camber, you will have wear on the edge of your tires, which will shorten their life. A good rotation scheme can mitigate this somewhat.
The tires were worn on the outer edges, due to the positive camber. Just rotated them after installing the struts doing the front tires to their opposing sides in the rear and then moving the rears up to the front on the same side.


The rumbling while turning may be low power steering fluid, of wear in the steering rack.
Thanks for the insight into this, I'll look into how to diagnose those.

With a flat floor, you can use a tall square and a tape measure plus some trigonometry to get the camber angle. You would measure from the top and bottom of the rim. Alternatively you can buy both 1 and 2 degree kits, and return the one you don't use.

Another option is to bring both kits with you to the alignment location, and have them install them for you (assuming they will install parts from you).


A worn out spring would result in a lower ride height, and a lower (or negative) camber. The sprinters front end has a negative camber coefficient. If you can fit your fingers between the bump stop and lower control arm, your spring is fine. I the front spring has been replaced with a stiffer steel aftermarket unit, your van may be sitting too high, and will thus have positive camber.

The only other wear part on the front end is the lower control arm bushings. They could in theory wear enough to cause the camber to change. It should be fairly easy to let the suspension hang, and lever the control arm back forth, and in/out to look for play.

Max.
The Sprinter front suspension is so simple you can not get it wrong, If the camber is a long way out the struts must be the wrong units for your vehicle. Measure the camber with a square on the level ground, it should measure the same top and bottom between the rim and the square. Eric.

Growling when turning could be wheel bearings. If you turn left andvit gets louder it's the right and opposite is the left. These are serviceable and even if they need replaced they are inexpensive. You can check for play but bad wheel bearings don't always have play. On the rack at work I have a saab 93 (A subaru) that is getting both rear bearings, sounds like a key taking off behind you but there is no play.

Midwestdrifter said:

With a flat floor, you can use a tall square and a tape measure plus some trigonometry to get the camber angle. You would measure from the top and bottom of the rim. Alternatively you can buy both 1 and 2 degree kits, and return the one you don't use.

Another option is to bring both kits with you to the alignment location, and have them install them for you (assuming they will install parts from you).


A worn out spring would result in a lower ride height, and a lower (or negative) camber. The sprinters front end has a negative camber coefficient. If you can fit your fingers between the bump stop and lower control arm, your spring is fine. I the front spring has been replaced with a stiffer steel aftermarket unit, your van may be sitting too high, and will thus have positive camber.

The only other wear part on the front end is the lower control arm bushings. They could in theory wear enough to cause the camber to change. It should be fairly easy to let the suspension hang, and lever the control arm back forth, and in/out to look for play.

Click to expand...

Really good info, thanks!

KGB Pilot125 said:

Growling when turning could be wheel bearings. If you turn left andvit gets louder it's the right and opposite is the left. These are serviceable and even if they need replaced they are inexpensive. You can check for play but bad wheel bearings don't always have play. On the rack at work I have a saab 93 (A subaru) that is getting both rear bearings, sounds like a key taking off behind you but there is no play.

Click to expand...

I know that passenger side is a little loose, maybe the driver side is as well at this point. I'll look into it!

Eric Experience said:

Max.
The Sprinter front suspension is so simple you can not get it wrong, If the camber is a long way out the struts must be the wrong units for your vehicle. Measure the camber with a square on the level ground, it should measure the same top and bottom between the rim and the square. Eric.

Click to expand...

I know I got the right struts for the vehicle, and the slight positive camber has been there before they were installed. I think an alignment looking at toe and tie-rods is in order and we'll see.