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outwestbound
11-01-2017, 01:21 AM
Hi. May I have you all's opinion on a good reference book to help me learn how to do basic service and repairs on a Dodge, T1N, 2.7L, 5 cylinder, DRW, 3500 Sprinter manufactured in 2005, and sold as a 2006 Itasca Navion 23J class c motorhome? I would not attempt major mechanical work, but I'd like to do everything that I can.

I found a few reference books, but have no idea which one would be best for a non-mechanic. I've recently semi-retired, and am going on a 12 month trip to South America, so I'm learning all I can about working on my vehicle. Should I get a book plus download the service manuals from MB? Could I please get a URL to the MB manuals? The Sprinter's in South America aren't quite the same, so I'd like to have the information to help mechanics down there figure things out, should I have unfortunate more serious mechanical issues that are beyond my ability. Thanks for any advice on building a library for this trip.

This is what I found: (I like pictures!).

Dodge Sprinter 2006 Workshop Repair & Service Manual (COMPLETE & INFORMATIVE for DIY Repair), from emanualonline
https://www.emanualonline.com/Cars/Dodge/Sprinter/Dodge-Sprinter-2006-Workshop-Repair-%252526-Service-Manual-(COMPLETE-%252526-INFORMATIVE-for-DIY-Repair)-%252526%2525239734%3B-%252526%2525239734%3B-%252526%2525239734%3B-%252526%2525239734%3B-%252526%2525239.html?currency=USD&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvuDPBRDnARIsAGhuAmaYqOaz-k1vSVtbG2fi3v8pDhfJWAq6-RdzJhF7hQK0C5VBeLbdf4AaArX-EALw_wcB

2000 - 2006 Mercedes-Benz & Dodge Sprinter with 2.2L CDI & 2.7L CDI Diesel Engines, Russek Repair Manual, Peter Russek
http://www.auto-repair-manuals.com/Mercedes-Benz-Dodge-2000-2006-Sprinter-2-2L-2-7L-CDI-Diesel-Engines-Russek-Repair-Manual.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvuDPBRDnARIsAGhuAmZYJKZq HXUv7CxdRjSQNw7zR9aPIh1BhQzQm7J0863UWJRWiILAb8caAu FSEALw_wcB

Mercedes Benz & Dodge Sprinter CDI 2000-2006 Owners Workshop Manual
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=kY3WDQAAQBAJ&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvuDPBRDnARIsAGhuAmac6BueXIqdtpj49kX8 Lpti_4aOUnwfVxyMOp3C5pkmUjBIwGqBRf4aAhoeEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CMunu9OKnNcCFUbqZAodYIQLOw

autostaretx
11-01-2017, 01:47 AM
Free download of the 2006 service manual: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf
That directory has the set of 2006 "diagnostic tree" manuals (powertrain, transmission, etc): http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/
... plus many other short (and long) service notes and descriptions... all free.

--dick

McMalakai
11-10-2017, 02:48 AM
I have the third one listed and find it next to useless. :thumbdown:

MillionMileSprinter
11-10-2017, 04:02 AM
Honestly, for all the maintenance, minor repairs and even diagnosing major repairs, THIS FORUM is head and shoulders above everything else.
Most everything is written in easy to understand language. There are photos and even videos to follow. There's "live tech support" available 24/7.
And it's all available on your phone.
Best part? It's FREE.

autostaretx
11-10-2017, 07:10 PM
I found a few reference books, but have no idea which one would be best for a non-mechanic. I've recently semi-retired, and am going on a 12 month trip to South America, so I'm learning all I can about working on my vehicle. Should I get a book plus download the service manuals from MB? Could I please get a URL to the MB manuals? The Sprinter's in South America aren't quite the same, so I'd like to have the information to help mechanics down there figure things out, should I have unfortunate more serious mechanical issues that are beyond my ability. Thanks for any advice on building a library for this trip.


I have friends who are currently doing this in their 2006 Sprinter.
Here's their blog (including a detailed "how to pass customs in Buenos Aires"): http://ramblinglarder.com/

They *did* have problems in southern Argentina (a number of emails happened between them, Andy and me), and found better service in Chile (but, as you noted, hiccups with lack of US-style parts). Some parts were brought down to them via visitors. (cam and/or crankshaft sensor).

Throughout most of the rest of the less-well-supplied world, the mechanics you find will be very good, and quite inventive in finding work-arounds for lack of parts. Kind'a like Dennis.

--dick
p.s. my answer for "what introductory book?" would be to go to bookstores, auto parts stores, thrift and HalfPriceBooks and/or libraries with a few theoretical questions/repairs in mind (change brakes? bad wheel bearing? bad shocks?) and flip/read through some of the books on the shelves ... see which ones (if any) "speak" to you. If there are any targeted at MB diesels, so much the better.
((i had the benefit of going through this stage when there seemed to be a lot more "fix your XXX" books available ... ))

Patrick of M
11-10-2017, 09:21 PM
The MB training literature for the T1N is the most helpful lit I have found but I've only seen the little bits listed in the diysprinter link posted above. For me the service manual also listed is less helpful but invaluable.

outwestbound
11-10-2017, 10:03 PM
Guys, thanks so much for your help.

autostaretx, thanks for the blog link. Most of the mechanics down there are good, but they may not have the diagnostic equipment and/or the parts. I agree that this forum is excellent, but it assumes one has internet access, which is a stretch sometimes in South America.

I'm learning all I can, buying a scanner for say $250 (or whatever makes sense), and have downloaded all the service manuals. I also have hard copies of many threaded discussions in the group and have built a library of most common issues and diagnostic procedures.

I'm not leaving until June 2018, so I got time. I just spoke directly to a "sprinter certified" tech at a MB dealer, who swore that my T1N 722.6 manufactured in Feb 2005 does NOT have a drain plug in the torque converter. He said that it is totally sealed. I'm clearly, not expert, but this flies in the face of everything I've learned so far. I know they changed the plug bolt size in 2006 maybe, but I believe there is a plug. Point is, few know the T1N that well, beyond the folks on this forum who are kind enough to share.

I think I'll be taking my vehicle up to have Andy work on it, if he is available. I've lived in Clemson before, so I know right where he is, assuming he's still there.

autostaretx
11-11-2017, 01:07 AM
The Doktor A Sprinter Hotline is Andy (Dr. A) Bittenbinder 864-623-9110 Clemson SC (just W of Greenville)
abittenbinder@yahoo.com

--dick

glasseye
11-11-2017, 01:17 AM
Honestly, for all the maintenance, minor repairs and even diagnosing major repairs, THIS FORUM is head and shoulders above everything else.
Best part? It's FREE.

TODALLY. :bow::clapping::cheers::rad::professor:

Patrick of M
11-11-2017, 01:22 AM
. I just spoke directly to a "sprinter certified" tech at a MB dealer, who swore that my T1N 722.6 manufactured in Feb 2005 does NOT have a drain plug in the torque converter. He said that it is totally sealed. I'm clearly, not expert, but this flies in the face of everything I've learned so far. I know they changed the plug bolt size in 2006 maybe, but I believe there is a plug
I don't know exactly when my sprinter was built but is was delivered 05/2005. It has a plug in the torque converter, I know because I removed it to drain the TC.

turbodave
11-11-2017, 05:39 PM
My 2006 has a very small drain plug on the TC, easy to miss.
Dave

autostaretx
11-11-2017, 07:13 PM
I'm not leaving until June 2018, so I got time. I just spoke directly to a "sprinter certified" tech at a MB dealer, who swore that my T1N 722.6 manufactured in Feb 2005 does NOT have a drain plug in the torque converter. He said that it is totally sealed.
Given your VIN, MB's EPC (electronic parts catalog) might tell us if it thinks you have one.
(it goes by your sub-assembly numbers)

--dick

outwestbound
11-11-2017, 08:00 PM
Given your VIN, MB's EPC (electronic parts catalog) might tell us if it thinks you have one.
(it goes by your sub-assembly numbers)

--dick

Thanks Dick. Here's the VIN WDXPD944365880667

btw...I subscribed to your friend's blog so I can follow their South American adventure. I'm sure I'll be communicating, so thanks. There is another younger couple down there in a truck camper. I was surprised how many folks have done the Latin American tour over 4-12 months in driven vehicles.

I just bought this 2006 Itasca Navion 23J on a T1N manufactured in 2005 for this trip. It has a MB reman installed 13,000 miles ago, but they did NOT replace the torque converter. The TC has 72,000 miles on it. The owner had done so many other repairs and preventative items that I would have had to do, that I took the chance and bought it.

I had MB do a pre-purchase inspection/ road test for me, plus it's the dealership that had been maintaining it for 5 years, including the transmission replacement. Their tech told me specifically, and I asked twice, that the TC is sealed and that the fluid in the TC does not intermingle with the fluid in the transmission.

Based exclusively on what I've read and researched (and my feeble brain), there is a drain plug and the fluid does mix with the transmission. In fact, if the TC goes bad, the fluid (along with the metal debris and associated particulate) goes into the transmission, causing the transmission to fail in a cascade effect. I am still learning, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Some of the folks with these overloaded Winnebago vehicles even install an auxiliary filter just to catch the particulate and debris from a TC failure in an effort to save the transmission. Maybe I'm wrong, but this techs statements seemed wrong. The use of the Sprinter 3500 for a basis as a class c recreational vehicle is inappropriate, in my opinion, based on "fitness of purpose", regarding the Winnebago/Itasca. Winnebago delivers these to customers at 1,150# under the vehicle's GVWR - most overload them, and then pull a vehicle behind. The thousands of Winnebago and Itasca units represent a subset of Sprinter vans that this tech, and many rightfully so, know little about. The transmission/ TC failure rate in this class c group is significantly higher, based on my research, and a regular topic in those forums. Many have coolers, filters, deeper pans, have added gauges, etc., so I'm considering those options.

autostaretx
11-11-2017, 11:37 PM
Oh, what a zoo...

Does it have a drain plug? Maybe... maybe not.

The EPC shows that you may have an A 903 250 00 02 torque converter, which DID have a plug.
(the plug's MB part number is N 000000 00648, the seal is N 007603 010100)
((before i forget to add it: you tighten that to 14 Nm (130 in-lbs) ))

Dodge part numbers:
05104567AA -- torque converter
05080398AA -- drain plug, MB# N 000908 010002 which was replaced/updated to:
05080398AB -- which has the MB # given above ( N 000000 00648 )
05080014AA -- O-ring ... which has the above MB# N 007603 010100

But, if you were to buy a replacement torque converter, you'd get an A 210 250 06 02 ... which does NOT have a plug.

Here are four documents/files:
(a) your datacard: 91526
(b) the print-out of the EPC parts list: 91527
(c) the print-out of the EPC diagram (note item 10): 91528
(d) my screen grab, showing the "00 02 replaced by 06 02" notification:

91529

The EPC is not tailored to show what you *have*, it's tailored to show what you should *install* if you need a new one.

I got the Dodge part numbers from the 2006 parts catalog available at http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference
..and the torque value from the 2006 service manual at the same site.

good luck
--dick
p.s. although they talked about the TC plug in the Tranny chapter, the following (many pages later) is the only diagram that showed it... (item 8 in fig 153)

91531

outwestbound
11-12-2017, 01:27 AM
autostaretx, I can't thank you enough man. Really, this is incredible. Before my rant about the tech, I found that exhibit and saw the plug also. There were two owners before the guy I just bought it from, so who knows, it could have a replacement TC with no plug. When I get it, I'll get my fat a.. under there and figure it out visually. Thanks again.

autostaretx
11-12-2017, 01:52 AM
Two things:
(a) turbodave's comment makes me wonder if the "other" item 10 (listed as a screw) is viewed as a drain plug?
From the EPC it sounds like an M8x1.0mm bolt, with an integral seal ring.

(b) you asked if the converter had a "private" oil supply... i'm pretty sure the answer is "no".
From page 21 dash 4 in the service manual:
The oil supply to the hydraulic elements, such as the hydrodynamic torque converter, the shift elements and the hydraulic transmission control, is provided by way of an oil pump connected with the torque converter
but the killer is:
page 21 dash 134/135 has you drain the tranny *and* converter, but only put the entire refill of 7.0 liters into the *tranny*. If they didn't share the oil, things would get nasty... (or noisy)

--dick

MillionMileSprinter
11-12-2017, 03:32 AM
I work almost exclusively on T1Ns and I have NEVER (not one time) done a transmission service and NOT found a drain plug in the TC. I would be shocked if I opened one up and didn't find a drain plug... And they do share the same same transmission fluid. It gets sucked out of the pan through the filter and makes its way into the TC.
(See what I mean about 24/7 tech support?)

outwestbound
11-12-2017, 05:44 AM
I work almost exclusively on T1Ns and I have NEVER (not one time) done a transmission service and NOT found a drain plug in the TC. I would be shocked if I opened one up and didn't find a drain plug... And they do share the same same transmission fluid. It gets sucked out of the pan through the filter and makes its way into the TC.
(See what I mean about 24/7 tech support?)

Thanks. This is what I've heard from every source so far on the mater. I even watched some youtube videos on the T1N (the year I have) getting serviced and they showed how to access the drain plug in the TC. Several discussions have been about the fluid in the TC contaminating the transmission if it goes bad and that the TC holds about 2 quarts, so it should be drained. Given the high failure rate in the Winnebago class c RV use of the Sprinter 3500, some have even put in a filter to catch the TC debris in an effort to save the transmission, because the TC is the known culprit that over heats.

This is what's shocking to me, as a newbie, to talk to a tech at a MB dealer, that I paid hundreds of dollars to do a pre-purchase inspection. I wasn't just a random call, and this dealership had worked on this vehicle for 5 years. And the questions were in the context of the $4,700 the seller had paid in 2015 for a new MB reman transmission. This tech wasn't at the dealer in 2015, fortunately, but he said not changing out TC out in 2015 was not a problem. Accordingly, that dealer towed the vehicle in, then put a MB reman transmission in for nearly $5,000, then did not replace or even drain the TC. The vehicle did not drive, so I assume they couldn't test the TC, but may be wrong about this. Surely, the TC was just as likely to have been bad or the cause of the transmission failure. So they just hooked it up and flushed the bad, particulate filled TC fluid into a newly installed transmission, collected their money, and sent the owner on down the road.

Am I missing something? This seems beyond incompetence. It seems like negligence. This stuff is hard enough to learn, without running into a "certified sprinter tech" that is wrong about material aspects of the drivetrain. It's disgusting.

Oh well, life goes on :-)

Aqua Puttana
11-12-2017, 02:37 PM
... then did not replace or even drain the TC.
...
I suppose that it depends upon what failed to trigger the transmission replacement. If the failure didn't include debris and parts floating around then maybe a TC replacement wasn't needed.

I'm not saying that I would be comfortable with that solution, but we really don't have the full story.


... I just spoke directly to a "sprinter certified" tech at a MB dealer, who swore that my T1N 722.6 manufactured in Feb 2005 does NOT have a drain plug in the torque converter. He said that it is totally sealed...
Has he worked on your Sprinter? If yes, perhaps he was referring to your specific Sprinter. Maybe the TC was replaced. Replacement TC's don't ALWAYS have a Allen screw drain plug. I believe that most factory units do though.

Maybe the TC was replaced with the transmission, but the service records don't include that information.

vic

outwestbound
11-12-2017, 04:27 PM
Has he worked on your Sprinter? If yes, perhaps he was referring to your specific Sprinter. Maybe the TC was replaced. Replacement TC's don't ALWAYS have a Allen screw drain plug. I believe that most factory units do though.
vic

Good and valid points. I tried to write my posts as hypothetical, because 1) I don't have the knowledge or the experience and 2) I've gone off what I've learned in forums, talking to mechanics and I downloaded the service manuals and parts catalogs.

This tech wasn't the person listed on the invoice from 9/15 as having replaced the transmission, but this is the same dealership that replaced the transmission. And, this MB dealer serviced it over the last 5 years of this owner/ seller's ownership. I'm the 4th owner, so it's been passed around. If a replacement TC exists without a plug, yes, it could be on this unit.

I bought it having never seen it. I'm disappointed that after $650 in due diligence inspections (RV inspector guy, MB dealer, Carfax), I don't know the integrity of the vehicle's drivetrain :-) The seller is a super, stand up guy, who put Michelin LTX M/S2 tires on, a serpentine belt and aligned the vehicle as a consequence of my inspections. I'm happy with my purchase.

My use for 12 month South American trip is why I'm so anal, in addition to obvious reasons. A transmission break down in Latin America is basically like having to "camp" in the unit at a garage parking lot for 45 days; it's gruesome. Everything is shipped and it's expensive.

I'm flying from Tampa, FL to Detroit, MI to get it in a few weeks and dive back to Tampa. I think I'll try to go by Doktor A's shop, get everything serviced so I have a baseline, plus get information and advice.

Thanks all for your input.

I've never seen the unit, which contributes to my frustration.

autostaretx
11-14-2017, 10:14 PM
Back to the original question (what manual?), two responses in this thread: https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61012
are *gold* ... the chance to be "walked through" by either Andy (platinum) or veganxxx would be a priceless apprenticeship

--dick