Low power/apparent LHM in 2002 Freightliner

I know there are lots of threads (I've been working my way through this thread in particular) on this, but I guess my problem is getting to the point where it makes sense to post a new one.
So, I have a 2002 Sprinter, OM612 engine. For months, it's had low power. It doesn't rev above 3200 RPMs or so, lags going up hills, and doesn't kick down. I don't have a scanner except for my Scangauge II, which reads no codes (and there is no check engine light). The Scangauge shows limits on boost, never more than 3 or so, usually more like 0 (until today, see below).
Things I've done to troubleshoot:

• Replaced EGR (it was definitely bad). Had no effect.
• Unplugged and cleaned the MAF sensor and also went for a drive without it to see if there was any change (see post 22 here). Had no effect.
• Replaced the intercooler hose and the plastic housing coming off the EGR going down to the intercooler (it seemed like it might have had some cracks, the other hoses on the turbo side show no cracks, I believe). Had no effect. (BTW, I didn't replace the hose from the plastic housing that goes to the intercooler because the one I got was a different size than the one I had).
• Replaced the air temp sensor on the plastic housing between the EGR and intercooler. No effect. (BTW, the ambient air temp is giving accurate readings of outside air, which someone brought up in a thread as a possible cause of the problem.)
  
• This one is different: Today, I replaced the MAP sensor (AKA Boost Pressure sensor, PN mb16244349) with one from a 2002 S430 (PN A0041533228) at the junkyard--my original MAP sensor connector is cracked, and the plug never quite snapped in, but it also doesn't quite snap in on the replacement I got, either. This didn't improve the power, but it DID immediately change the boost readings on my Scangauge II. It now shows 14.x at idle and as much as 17 or so when I drove around the block. Power is still the same (poor), and RPMs are still limited, but the readings are different.

So, here's my question:
Are these MAP sensors interchangeable? Whether they are or not, does this change in boost readings tell me anything about the problem I am having? Is the MAP sensor the problem, but the one I got the wrong solution?

My guess is that the parts aren't interchangeable and the readings reveal nothing about my problem, so, what should I do next? How does one test the original MAP sensor (the manual just says to scan it)? How does one test the other associated sensors without a scanner (most threads I've read about this eventually get solved with a scan). Is there anyone in the Portland area who can help me with a DAD or other advanced diagnostics scan? I contacted one local user about this but haven't gotten a response.
Thanks.
Mike

My two immediate thoughts are that you didn't mention whether or not you checked/replaced the turbo resonator. Often they split due to a faulty 2 piece design, and cause boost leaks with no MIL/CEL's. If I were in your shoes I'd be having one sent to you asap, made by Dorman. Available on Amazon or elsewhere, very easy to replace.

Second thought is to replace your fuel filter. A big factor in troubleshooting low power with no CEL, and a good practice anyway.

But my money is on turbo resonator.

If not that, the intercooler hose that you say is probably fine, or possibly the intercooler itself...

The 2002 OM612 engine doesn't have a turbo resonator. It also doesn't have an O2 sensor in case that gets mentioned.

Changing the fuel filter first when there are power problems is almost a diesel mantra. That is not a bad thing to try.

You might check to see if the numbers on the two sensors in question properly cross reference to each other. Maybe the van you found in the scrap yard ended up there because someone installed the wrong part.

I've had good success using Google search to get lists of compatible sensors.

vic

Whoops, missed the 612 part of the novel, thanks vic!

Thanks for your responses, Vic and Zundfolge.
Yes, no resonator.
I didn't mention it, but I have changed the fuel filter recently and even did some troubleshooting of air in the fuel system, so it seems pretty safe that the fuel system isn't the problem (I also have a WVO conversion, and the low power persists when running on that, too--I hesitate to bring this up because I hope the discussion doesn't get sidetracked with folks blaming the WVO).
The sensor I got from the yard and the sensor I took out of my van are definitely not the same part. The one from the yard actually comes from a Mercedes sedan, not a Sprinter. I went to that because I found a couple of not-necessarily-reliable sources (eBay ads) suggesting that the same part fits both vehicles (and for $2, it was worth a try). Actually, few sites can give me info about the 2002 Sprinter's MAP sensor, but I am always assuming that it's the same as the 2003, so that's a bit troubling but has always worked out with every other part.
Thanks.
Mike

Hey Mike, I'm close to Portland, I have a scanner and tools I can come take a look at your sprinter. Sending you a pm. My first course of action would be to run a scan and inspect and clean the MAP connector. Then inspect and tighten all intercooler hoses and clamps. Then replace any replaced sensors with the OEM sensor from mccoy or a dodge or MB dealer. One common mistake when replacing the upper boost hose that you replaced, is not seating the lower portion fully. There is a rib on the outlet of the intercooler and the hose must be pushed past this, you might need some oil to get it to squeeze past.

This is Great, SneakyAnarchistVanCamper. I will call you.
Mike

Update:
Elliot helped me out and did some scans with me today. There's a long list of codes which i haven't started researching yet. Most of them were stored, only one (backup lamp) came back after deleting. The real issue was that Elliot inspected the turbo actuator and found it rusty and unmoving when the engine was revved. I will do some research and work on freeing that in the next few days (the Pacific Northwest is on fire right now, so I am staying inside).

Here's the long list of codes. No need to comment on them, but they;re here for reference in case they turn out to be meaningful. Maybe I will even edit later to add what each means:

Ecm:
N3fff
P1403-1
P1403-8
P2007-1
P2007-2
P1470-16 current (turbo actuator)
P0703-128
P0100-1
P0100-64
Fuel temp sensor p0180-2 current ml on
P1187-2 ml on current rail pressure monitoring (too low)

Transmission
P2312
P2502
P2404
P2311
P2312

Selector lever
P1817-002
P1876

Heating control
B1002
B1004
B1007

Common rail module ecm
B1470-002
B1040-000
B1041-000
B1042-000
3-032
C1024
C1200
C1022
C1024
Mike

Not that you asked...
This may be one of those times that my chart could help to reveal a trend. It can't hurt to log them in while you're inside avoiding the smoke.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29362

vic

Aqua Puttana said:

Not that you asked...
This may be one of those times that my chart could help to reveal a trend.

vic

Click to expand...

Thanks as always for your prolific help here on the forums. I'm thinking it was just a harness connector or power source/ground got unplugged in the past, otherwise allll of those codes wouldn't go away with just a clearing of codes... Reasonable theory? Or maybe the stored codes have haven't been cleared in years and they all built up.


Also I found it interesting that it said ML light ON for the fuel temp sensor short and rail pressure too low , but the ML light was functioning at startup test yet not lighting up otherwise. An error of interpretation on the part of my Autel?


The 2002-2003's actuate the turbo in park, correct? I did see the vacuum transducer responding to the throttle.



Btw take this, you'll need it:

https://www.docdroid.net/nlS9fL5/t1n-completesprinterfaultcodeguide.pdf

SneakyAnarchistVanCamper said:

...


The 2002-2003's actuate the turbo in park, correct? I did see the vacuum transducer responding to the throttle.



Btw take this, you'll need it:

...

Click to expand...

The turbo should respond while in Park.

I was a bit leery of DocDroid as I am of most unknown sites. I have a hard copy of the Ord book. A file copy will be nice.

This video made me feel much better. Apparently a DocDroid document will auto delete after 60 days of inactivity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng5iZyZVMyA

Thanks. vic

Ah ok thank you for the confirmation. I was giving that code book to Mike, I'm sure you already have every book under the sun Vic


I use docdroid because scribed is obnoxious with their sign up and payments and such.

GREAT NEWS!
First things first, I tested the movement of the actuator with my Mityvac by plugging the hose from the actuator pot into the Mityvac and pumping. As I pumped, the shaft rose nicely. When I released, it dropped nicely.
So, I did what some threads told me to do weeks ago but I guess I never did: I tested vacuum. I found two vac lines completely disconnected. I hooked them up, and I've got boost!
For the record, I get no boost when I use the MAP sensor I got from the junkyard.
My next thing to consider is whether the boost numbers I am getting on my Scangauge II are a reason for concern. If I am reading threads like this one correctly, I should see 14.7 or more at idle and go up to about 32 at full throttle. I am seeing 0 at idle and 17 at full throttle (I do notice, by the way that 32-14.7=17.3, which is about what I am seeing, so... I don't know what that means). Anyway, I guess this thread has two valuable lessons:
1. On your '02-'03 vacuum-controlled turbo, check for vacuum when you have low power. This is not new information. Lots of other people have posted about this.
2. The MAP sensor from a 2002 MB S430 is not interchangeable with a 2002 Sprinter, despite what some eBay listings say.

Thanks, everyone.
Mike

Mike Rancourt said:

GREAT NEWS!

My next thing to consider is whether the boost numbers I am getting on my Scangauge II are a reason for concern. ...I should see 14.7 or more at idle and go up to about 32 at full throttle. I am seeing 0 at idle and 17 at full throttle (I do notice, by the way that 32-14.7=17.3, which is about what I am seeing, so... I don't know what that means).

Click to expand...

You are watching BST (Boost) on your SGII and should be watching MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure). If you scroll through the PID's you should find MAP.

And yes you are correct in that 14.7 (or current local atmospheric pressure) is the difference!

Keith.

I'm in the middle of mostly the same problem [with my 03 with 277k on the clock], however my problem goes away when we restart the engine. We'll loose turbo when pulling away from a stop, but then regain immediately after pulling over and restarting the engine. Until the next time it does it, which is pretty random at this point. It was happening about once a week, yesterday it happened 5 times and also not restarting right away...just cranking.... waited 10 minutes witht he keys out of the ignition, and it started right up. Full power the rest of the way home.
I currently have the pipe and little temp/pressure manifold thing off.
I manually checked EGR and it operates smoothly.
There is allot of oily build up around this maniflold thing (not sure what it is exactly) on both sensors, above and below and around the whole connections.
The piping looks and feels good all around it, very flexible, no apparent tears or cracks
The top pipe going into the EGR also is in good shape with oily residue puddled in the bottom of the metal connector.

After reading this thread, I feel like I'm in a different situation because it comes back after a restart unlike the OP's ALWAYS underpower/revs
Where should I go from here?


TIA
Jonathan

FoxyRoxy said:

We'll loose turbo ......
There is allot of oily build up around this maniflold thing (not sure what it is exactly) on both sensors, above and below and around the whole connections.

Click to expand...

Oil spray buildup = boost leak. As you pull away from a stop, the ecm notices boost values not correlating, and initiates a LHM.

I would remove the whole outlet boost hose. Likely the lowest part of the "Elephant trunk" hose is not fully seated on the outlet of the intercooler; use a flashlight and look for a round rib showing, indicating it is not fully seated. So yeah I would remove, clean and inspect the whole hose.

Next I'd remove/vacuum test vacuum lines leading to the turbo.

Thanks so much!
I removed upper, and middle, re-seated (didn't appear misaligned however). The lower I pulled off and re-seated as well. I also replaced the vac line on the other side (actuator) as that hose was smooshy as all get out! Will test drive it in a bit...its just such a crap-shoot if it happens or not so I don't know if it truly fixed.
I ordered the IAT sensor as well as the MAP sensor. Will have those next week to install. If the re-seating and new sensors don't fix it, I'll replace the entire output piping (relatively inexpensive @~$75)

I have the cheapy OBDII scanner and my Torque app. It gives me boost readings, intake temp, MAF readings, can't see the MAP choice in the options though. Interestingly, the IAT measurement shows -- all the time when it was about 90* out and after a 4 mile drive.

***UPDATE**
MODS: we can move this to a new thread if needed, but it's related to the OP's original post...

Both sensors have been replaced, MAF cleaned, air filter cleaned (in good shape) hoses re-seated....still having the issue though....now with the added bonus of a no-start (hard-start) when hot. Seems to be temperature related...all is strong and normal, shifting all gears at ~3200-3400 RPM with full boost until just above ~180*.

I took a long test drive this afternoon and noticed some consistent details...
At just above 180* all gears shift before 2500RPM and there seems to be no turbo boost. There isn't an action I can do to force it, it just seems to be temp related. Upon restart the problem occurs almost immediately, but not before normal operation happens for the first 3-4 gear shifts. 95% of the time, if the low power situation is occurring, it won't start until it sits for about 10-15 minutes. If the low-power situation isn't occurring, it'll restart with no problems or hesitation.
During the low-power limitations I can switch to manual shift mode and it'll rev to 3500 with no problems in every gear but still (it seems) with little to no turbo boost.

What do you all think?

Replaced the Cam Position Sensor and all is fixed!!

I have an '02 that went into LHM once, very early on. It was the ERG valve. Dealer replaced it, I picked it up, was still in LHM. They had forgotten to reset the computer. So, my point is, if it's the EGR, simply replacing it may not be enough!