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Laser
07-05-2017, 02:02 AM
2006 dodge sprinter 2500 180,000 miles

I talked to a diesel guy and he swears by this stuff.

I upgraded to synthetic oil and put the recommended amount of the stiction eliminator additive in my van. Instantly turned the oil black and smokes like crazy when I accelerate. I called the number on the bottle and they said it should smoke for about 2 to 3 days, but it has been doing it for over a week. Does anyone have any experience with this product? I changed all my filters, fluids, EGR valve, turbo intercooler hose, turbo resonator, map sensor, fuel filter, and some sensors. Could the engine and turbo finally have the power to blast out all this stuff with the help of the additive or are there bigger problems. It drives great; no limp mode, but has code p0069.


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Brokecanadian
07-05-2017, 02:06 AM
Grabbing my popcorn[emoji6]

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icarus
07-05-2017, 03:14 AM
Sounds like snake oil in a bottle, the cure is worse than the problem! I would do a proper scan and find out what the code is, and fix the underlying issue!

Icarus

Laser
07-05-2017, 03:25 AM
Tomorrow, I'm hopefully going to get a IAT sensor. That may clear the code. After extensive research on this product I've read really good reviews. I've read the p0069 code could produce black smoke. I recently had 2 pro diagnostics and now only have code p0069. So, I am not sure if it is the additive or the code. The product is supposed to clean the injection system and the build up in the engine. I've used sea foam in the past and that has worked really good.


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Brokecanadian
07-05-2017, 04:42 AM
If it was really possible for an oil additive to do what it says, whoever put it in oil as part of the formula would dominate the market.

Mobil 1 0w40 is what the engine was designed for.

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Laser
07-05-2017, 06:12 AM
If it was really possible for an oil additive to do what it says, whoever put it in oil as part of the formula would dominate the market.

Mobil 1 0w40 is what the engine was designed for.

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Thanks. I just upgraded to that from standard diesel oil. I used the stiction eliminator because I was an idiot and realized I bought a van from someone who did not service it. So, I wanted to blast out the buildup. It's crazy that the standard diesel oil would stay clear after several hundred miles. But, either the additive, the Mobil 1, or both turned the oil black right away. And, it looks like coal smoke is coming out the exhaust.


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Brokecanadian
07-05-2017, 06:25 AM
My Mobil 1 is black the day after a change. Better detergent package? I dunno. But holding the crap in suspension keeps it from building deposits and allows it to be drained in a change.

I don't think you did any damage, most "snake oil" type formulations have additives compatible with oils (to avoid liability? Again, I dunno)

Diesel additives may have more of an effect. I doubted gasoline additives until I tore down an engine and saw that the injector cleaner had worn a shiny path thru the black.

Power Service in the gray bottle is the only stuff I've found to produce noticeable results, at least in mpg - worth 1 or 2 mpg in my Ford 7.3...but it's too costly for the return.

To truly control deposits in a diesel, disable the EGR. Nothing can counteract all that soot going thru.


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icarus
07-05-2017, 06:59 AM
Diesels turn oil black almost immediately, 'tis the nature of the beast! Oh, and by the way what is "stiction" and why does it need illuminating?

Icarus

Tooth Fairy
07-05-2017, 09:45 AM
and by the way what is "stiction"

Its that thing that reaches into your wallet and extracts cash for no particular reason.....

Hey Laser.
I have some magic beans if you are interested, be quick as I have them on special at the moment, the offer wont last long as they are selling really fast. :thumbup:

Laser
07-05-2017, 01:25 PM
I'm trying to figure out how to fix my van. Nothing more. Cheers.


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Aqua Puttana
07-05-2017, 02:27 PM
Not all additives are bad. Not all additives are snake oil. Every tank of fuel and container of oil that you buy contains additives.

I would drop the engine oil and refill with unadulterated MB spec oil. Change the oil filter at that time.

That should get rid of the additive to return you to a more normal baseline.

:cheers: vic

Added:
Hot Shot works on some engines.


Question: How does adding this to the oil make the difference in the injectors? I though you need a fuel additive. I have a VW Jetta TDI, Can it help me?

Answer: A power stroke 6.0 users oil pressure to operate the fuel injectors. Oil deposits get stuck and causes the injector to fail. If your systems works the same then use it. If it doesn't don't buy it.
By Kyle P. on April 15, 2016

Sprinter injectors don't use oil.

I added the BG 244 when my fuel gauge was a bit above 1/2 tank. I figure that to be roughly 13 - 15 gallons of fuel.

After 150 miles of running with the BG 244 it seems like my 2004 is now idling and running a bit smoother. That could be a placebo effect. What is not a placebo effect is that my latest cold weather starts no longer have the initial rough running and smoking. The engine starts normally.





So far it seems that the BG 244 diesel fuel additive has not destroyed my engine and may have actually helped some.

FWIW.

vic

Added: Reading some of the DPF discussions that mentioned high(er) RPM operation reminded me.

After adding the BG 244 to my 2004 I have been doing a bit of higher RPM driving by using lower gears. My thought was to keep the BG 244 conditioned (contaminated?) fuel flow through the injectors at a higher rate. Did it help? Would just driving and giving it the "thrash out" without the BG 244 have produced similar results? :idunno:
At this point I believe that the BG244 BG 244 Diesel Fuel System Injector Cleaner has cured my issues.

I have no specific data.

Added 20170315:
The ambient temperature was down to 15F this morning. (We had 60's in February. :bash:) Prior to the BG244 treatment, at that low temperature the 2004 would have stumbled on startup. No stumble today.

vic

Well I suppose I have to confess I am sceptical of "snake oil" fixes!
But in this case the BG line of "fix in a can remedies", seems to work and add up to their claims.

So far as the 244 product is concerned I first used it as an experiement on my Missus' car a 2001 VW Jetta diesel. Now these beast are notorious for plugging up the EGR valve and inlet manifold.

A few 10,000 mile doses of it have kept the inlet tract clear and @ 200,000 Mls recorded of usual urban suburban driving the thing runs very clean and the E test center mentioned it had run very clean when it was last tested.

I was convinced to recommend it which I don't usually do that preferring to take Sailquick's position.

Cheers Dennis

...

Also once you are done add a can of BG's ATC plus transmission additive. Any abnormal burnishing of the lock up internal clutch will be smoothed out by this stuff.
All the best
Dennis
https://smile.amazon.com/BG-ATC-Plus/dp/B00D7FSFTS

surlyoldbill
07-05-2017, 05:55 PM
It's completely possible and plausible that the additive is cleaning gunk residue from the dinosaur oil that has built up over the years. As with flushing a coolant system, perhaps a few more oil changes to get rid of the gunk that has been washed of the interior (probably just the pan where it all settled) is in order. Maybe leave the filter in place for the next oil change to save $8, and change it out again in another 2000 miles with a new filter and Mobil-1.

I think I would remove the oil pan and clean it out before adding the next oil. Gravity makes stuff go to the bottom.

Aqua Puttana
07-05-2017, 07:36 PM
I agree that junk has probably been flushed loose.

... Maybe leave the filter in place for the next oil change to save $8, and change it out again in another 2000 miles with a new filter and Mobil-1.

...
I disagree with not changing the oil filter which has cleaned that gunk from the oil and may be soaked with additive. There is no practical method to determine whether the flushed gunk has loaded up the oil filter media. It's probably ok, but the Sprinter doesn't have any oil pressure indicator or monitor to give an indication. I wouldn't risk leaving the filter in service.

My guess is that the additive cleaning chemicals (solvents) have thinned the oil. That may be allowing some blow-by past the rings which might contribute to the black smoke. Getting back to normal oil should be a step in the right direction.

I have no data.

:2cents: vic

Laser
07-05-2017, 09:19 PM
Thanks all for the help. I called Hot Shot's customer help and talked to them about the black smoke. They said that is pretty normal. If the engine is pretty dirty it should smoke for about about 500 miles and then between 500 and 1,000 miles it should start to clear up. I think I've put about 500 miles on the van, but 400 were troubleshooting limp mode. So, I was probably causing more build up. (I did not know that the limp mode would take so long to fix). The specialist recommended that I really give the van lots of gas during acceleration to blast out all the soot. And, not to worry it is just cleaning out the system and will not harm the van. Secondly, he recommended that I use a gasoline additive. I went to 3 different auto stores looking for the BG 244 gas additive you guys recommended and found I would have to order it from Amazon. It might be hard to find in America since it is an Irish company. Plus, it's $45! I decided to stick with the Hot Shot brand Extreme Diesel gas additive. There is enough in the bottle to use for 80 gallons of gas. Apparently, both products should be used in conjunction with one another, because the Stiction Eliminator will clean one side of the injector through the oil and the Extreme Diesel will clean the other side of the injector through the gas. Otherwise, the Stiction Eliminator will put gunk all over the other side of the injector. So, you have to use both together! The reason I bought this stuff is that is has 146 reviews on Amazon and received 4 out of 5 stars. I talked with a diesel guy and his brother and they swore by it. The specialist said that it was originally designed for Ford injectors, but it has been modified since to work with all diesel vehicles including Sprinters. I've never used a diesel additive, but decided to give it a try. Why not! It was $50 for 2 treatments plus $15 for the gas additive. It's cheaper than spending $350 per injector and I'll save a little with the improved gas milage. Who knows, maybe this stuff is paint thiner or something with a fancy label. Maybe, some of you are right about the snake oil. Who knows? Will it do more damage? We will see.



Thanks for the advice about cleaning the oil pan (Bill). I will clean that out. The one thing that I was worried about with these treatments is the seals that were actually created though gunk. Sometimes the gunk buildup can create a seal where otherwise there would be a leak. BrokeCanadian, my brother uses power service in his dodge diesel, but I think it is designed specifically for the Cummins diesel.



Vic, thanks for the advice about going back to just oil for the baseline. If I go over 1,000 miles and it is still smoking, I'm going to drain the oil and replace it. After my talk with the rep I thought about it and I decided to give this product a chance to live up to all the hype.



Note: In no way am I claiming to be an expert or a mechanic. I am not endorsing this product. Just trying to bring this old van back to life.

Seber
07-05-2017, 11:20 PM
I once put a pint of liquid wrench in the crankcase of a Corvair with 60,000 miles on it. Smoked like crazy for 100 miles before I drained the oil. You would not believe the garbage that came out. I think any solvent would do the same.

icarus
07-06-2017, 12:45 AM
^ And promptly dislodged all the sludge to circulate around amongst the bearing. I knew of a slant six valiant with 500k on the clock, running great, unsung virtually no oil. The guy decided to de sludge it with something and got all the sludge you describe, and with in about 100 miles it blew up from collective main and rod bearing failure.

If you want to de sludge your engine, take the pan off and clean the pan, and anything you can get to, but don't run solvent through it!

Icarus

icarus
07-06-2017, 01:13 AM
Remember, modern detergent oils, especially synthetics are not your father's oil!

Icarus

owner
07-06-2017, 04:01 AM
Stiction is static-friction. You can't eliminate it, its a fact of life. The ECU already compensates for stiction in injectors, even for changes in stiction over time. Best case the black smoke on engine oil driven injectors is probably because the stiction has changed and the ecu takes a while to re-learn the step change. Of course this goop doesnt apply to Bosch CDI like the sprinter, since they are electronically fired.

HighPockets
07-06-2017, 04:34 AM
"Stiction" is a term in the motorcycle world. It refers to the moment of inertia it takes to move the front wheel up when hitting a bump. Sharp bumps no problem. Gentle bumps or long waves on the roadbed may just be passed through like a rigid frame. Never heard the term applied to an ICE.

lindenengineering
07-06-2017, 04:13 PM
Thanks all for the help. I called Hot Shot's customer help and talked to them about the black smoke. They said that is pretty normal. If the engine is pretty dirty it should smoke for about about 500 miles and then between 500 and 1,000 miles it should start to clear up. I think I've put about 500 miles on the van, but 400 were troubleshooting limp mode. So, I was probably causing more build up. (I did not know that the limp mode would take so long to fix). The specialist recommended that I really give the van lots of gas during acceleration to blast out all the soot. And, not to worry it is just cleaning out the system and will not harm the van. Secondly, he recommended that I use a gasoline additive. I went to 3 different auto stores looking for the BG 244 gas additive you guys recommended and found I would have to order it from Amazon. It might be hard to find in America since it is an Irish company. Plus, it's $45! I decided to stick with the Hot Shot brand Extreme Diesel gas additive. There is enough in the bottle to use for 80 gallons of gas. Apparently, both products should be used in conjunction with one another, because the Stiction Eliminator will clean one side of the injector through the oil and the Extreme Diesel will clean the other side of the injector through the gas. Otherwise, the Stiction Eliminator will put gunk all over the other side of the injector. So, you have to use both together! The reason I bought this stuff is that is has 146 reviews on Amazon and received 4 out of 5 stars. I talked with a diesel guy and his brother and they swore by it. The specialist said that it was originally designed for Ford injectors, but it has been modified since to work with all diesel vehicles including Sprinters. I've never used a diesel additive, but decided to give it a try. Why not! It was $50 for 2 treatments plus $15 for the gas additive. It's cheaper than spending $350 per injector and I'll save a little with the improved gas milage. Who knows, maybe this stuff is paint thiner or something with a fancy label. Maybe, some of you are right about the snake oil. Who knows? Will it do more damage? We will see.



Thanks for the advice about cleaning the oil pan (Bill). I will clean that out. The one thing that I was worried about with these treatments is the seals that were actually created though gunk. Sometimes the gunk buildup can create a seal where otherwise there would be a leak. BrokeCanadian, my brother uses power service in his dodge diesel, but I think it is designed specifically for the Cummins diesel.



Vic, thanks for the advice about going back to just oil for the baseline. If I go over 1,000 miles and it is still smoking, I'm going to drain the oil and replace it. After my talk with the rep I thought about it and I decided to give this product a chance to live up to all the hype.



Note: In no way am I claiming to be an expert or a mechanic. I am not endorsing this product. Just trying to bring this old van back to life.

For info
BG244 is for diesel engine as is its successor BG245.

BG 44K is for gasoline engines.

Now this magic yum yum Stiction eliiminator!!!
Yes i suppose it might have some benefit cleaning out HUEI injectors and to understand that you need to understand how these injectors work!
But that stated these injectors are old,hat and NOT found on Sprinters. Rather in big truck diesel engines! Older 7-3 Ford /International 444 truck engines!

The injectors in TIN engines are ball and seat style injectors notorious for poor control caused in the main by poor fuel filtration and water ingress. No engine oil flows through them!
Likewise the injector on the later sprinter are Piezo style and work much differently than the HEUI injector. or ball and seat config!,

Now you have to be careful using additives!
You can wash out harmful contaminents/carbon into the oil causing filter overload!

In any case from your post testimony you have an electronic control problem and you are throwing parts at it! This additive is a clutching at straws remedy, the outcome will not be what you are hoping for

Rather the van needs live data interrogation by someone who has a scanner and ability to read the data,

These are not difficult vans to fix in fact from where i sit they are very easy to repair!

My suggestion is to get a professional to do a live date print out and all will be revealed.
Remember treat the case not the symptom !
Dennis
No magic pills or snake oil in my leather bound brass buggery box.
Just honest fixes1