PDA

View Full Version : 2006 2500 stumbling\cutting out


Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-15-2017, 03:28 AM
I have a problem with my sprinter. Sometimes I feel the engine going off when i am driving it. This problem lasts 2 or 4 seconds and the engine turn on and turns itself on again. When this happens no signal appears on the dashboard, I just feel that there is no power on the accelerator. With the same impulse that the engine brings, it turns itself on without using the gear to turn it on. Now also when turning the key to the position of ignition, I hear a clap and the lights of the board turn on and go off. There are no fault codes on the dashboard. The next attempt starts without this fail for a little time.

This fault has not left me in the way, but I feel distrust in the vehicle.

greenyooper
06-15-2017, 04:05 AM
I have the strangest problem with our people mover. Starts fine, but running down the road it will cut out for an instant and then pick right back up as if nothing happened. It feels like the key was turned off and on quickly. At first it was an occasional annoyance, but it has gotten so bad that I'm afraid to drive it in heavy traffic.

Scanguage shows a P0336, P0674, and P0672

Checked the break switch and replaced the crank position sensor. Any thoughts or similar experiences out there?

Thanks a bunch!
- Carl

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-15-2017, 06:31 AM
I have the same problem. Today i write in this forum. I can not explain the problem like you because i do not know english. In some hours i will go with a mechanic. If the mechanic can repair the problem i write here the answer.

Goog luck.

SneakyAnarchistVanCamper
06-15-2017, 08:44 AM
P0336 is pretty clear you have a problem with the crank wires, I would start there. Using the manual, locate the ECM pins for the crank wires, unplug the ecm connector to access the crank sensor pins, unplug the crank sensor, turn engine and key off. With an accurate multimeter, in ohms mode, place a lead on either end of the crank wire (One at crank sensor connector spade, one at ecm female pin) and measure resistance of the wire. Or, replace the wires. Inspect cam wires too, sometimes the codes get them mixed up. What part number did you replace the crank sensor with? Oem is important here.

Does the engine actually shut off, or does the rpm just drop? If I let my foot on the brake slightly sometimes the ecm will cut out the throttle, that's not what you're experiencing?

2004VannaWhite
06-15-2017, 12:23 PM
Engine wiring harness perhaps? These are somewhat notorious for developing intermittent open/short in the main engine harness where it lays over the intake manifold and runs down the block.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

lindenengineering
06-15-2017, 01:35 PM
I have the same problem. Today i write in this forum. I can not explain the problem like you because i do not know english. In some hours i will go with a mechanic. If the mechanic can repair the problem i write here the answer.

Goog luck.

Snr Roberto
Moi buenas dias y saludos .
En respecto de esa problema, por favor es moi importante y inicialemente de veficar el condicion de "harness" principal de motor.
Paga atencion especialmente en las areas de siguente, y significante es:-
.
Uno) A donde el harness electrica se toma una curva redondo el filtro de gasoil. En effecto quando es flojo, se raspa contra el base y se danas las cables internales. La manera de inspeccion es corta las clips plasticas (les zipo ties) y fisicamente llevantar por mano el harness y verificar condiciones visualmentes ! En effecto doblar el harness un poquito sobre sus manos y checkear visualmente por extencion.

Dos)
De checkiar los mismos condiciones de danos circana de columna de direccion . Hay propensidad de raspar contra las areas de mechanismos de direccion, tal columna y conjunto universal . Especialmente si es floto o flotando en ese area por faltas de securidades ( como tie wrap./zip tie ).
Amistades
Dennis
Snr Tuercas Viejas.:smilewink:

lindenengineering
06-15-2017, 01:47 PM
Snr Roberto.
A primero puedes tu analisar el motor por scanner buscando por fajas ?

Hay debes ser codigos de fajas en almacen o memoria de computador de control del motor.
Con extraccion de es recordiario en ese foro es possible de en puntan a las areas de problemas.
Saludo Dennis

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-15-2017, 02:18 PM
P0336 is pretty clear you have a problem with the crank wires, I would start there. Using the manual, locate the ECM pins for the crank wires, unplug the ecm connector to access the crank sensor pins, unplug the crank sensor, turn engine and key off. With an accurate multimeter, in ohms mode, place a lead on either end of the crank wire (One at crank sensor connector spade, one at ecm female pin) and measure resistance of the wire. Or, replace the wires. Inspect cam wires too, sometimes the codes get them mixed up. What part number did you replace the crank sensor with? Oem is important here.

Does the engine actually shut off, or does the rpm just drop? If I let my foot on the brake slightly sometimes the ecm will cut out the throttle, that's not what you're experiencing?


The problem occurs at several rotations per minute. So that in idle it turns to turn off the engine. Sometimes the problem happens when pressing the brake sometimes without pressing it.

2004VannaWhite
06-15-2017, 04:30 PM
Snr Roberto.
A primero puedes tu analisar el motor por scanner buscando por fajas ?

Hay debes ser codigos de fajas en almacen o memoria de computador de control del motor.
Con extraccion de es recordiario en ese foro es possible de en puntan a las areas de problemas.
Saludo Dennis

While this suggestion certainly has merit, if it were a system wide power disconnect would it not be possible for NO codes to be stored as the "event" is total power loss (unable to store codes with no extant power to modules)?

MillionMileSprinter
06-15-2017, 04:40 PM
Y tambien no falles de chequear la caja de fuses debajo del steering wheel. A veces los conecciones de solder se secan y fallan. Tambien hay un relay del ECU que se puede empezar a fallar.

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-15-2017, 05:47 PM
Snr Roberto
Moi buenas dias y saludos .
En respecto de esa problema, por favor es moi importante y inicialemente de veficar el condicion de "harness" principal de motor.
Paga atencion especialmente en las areas de siguente, y significante es:-
.
Uno) A donde el harness electrica se toma una curva redondo el filtro de gasoil. En effecto quando es flojo, se raspa contra el base y se danas las cables internales. La manera de inspeccion es corta las clips plasticas (les zipo ties) y fisicamente llevantar por mano el harness y verificar condiciones visualmentes ! En effecto doblar el harness un poquito sobre sus manos y checkear visualmente por extencion.

Dos)
De checkiar los mismos condiciones de danos circana de columna de direccion . Hay propensidad de raspar contra las areas de mechanismos de direccion, tal columna y conjunto universal . Especialmente si es floto o flotando en ese area por faltas de securidades ( como tie wrap./zip tie ).
Amistades
Dennis
Snr Tuercas Viejas.:smilewink:

This morning I turned on the truck very well, I turned it on several times looking for the fault and did not find it. With the engine on i move the harness with a hand and did not turn off or showed error. I think the error only comes with it hot. I see the harness in good condition.

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-15-2017, 05:57 PM
Y tambien no falles de chequear la caja de fuses debajo del steering wheel. A veces los conecciones de solder se secan y fallan. Tambien hay un relay del ECU que se puede empezar a fallar.


I checked the fuses under the steering wheel and they looked good and the fuses under the seat and looked good.

Where is the ECU relay?

Muchas gracias por escribir en español, el mecánico no me ayudó porque en todo Colima hay cuando mucho 5 sprinters.

MillionMileSprinter
06-15-2017, 07:22 PM
Uno de estos. No recuerdo cual es. Uno es para los turn signals y El otro es para El ECU.

Cheyenne
06-15-2017, 08:21 PM
Shown here with descriptions...
86985

Keith.

autostaretx
06-15-2017, 08:47 PM
Since i've had a couple of drop-offs with no codes stored (that a DAD can find), i agree that a momentary interruption of power may not leave a trace.

For me, they seem to happen (a) very very rarely (b) only when rolling at low speeds (c) while making a 90 degree right turn.
A few feet more roll-(re)starts the engine

Intermittents are sooo much fun... :thumbdown:

--dick ("very very rarely" = about 2 years apart (on average))

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-16-2017, 12:36 AM
I find the ECU relay in a very good condition, it was firmly connected without dust or rust.

i went to five different mechanical workshop and the scan tools can NOT read the sprinter codeas because they noy have special key or another unknown cause.

tomorrow i will go to other mechanical workshop to get the fail codes.

this fail is intermitent, the engine lost the power of the diesel injection for seconds.

i think this fail can be caused for a sensor at the end of his life who allow the diesel injection.

I am not happy but i feel i am learning a lot with the help of the people of this forum, thank you.

Midwestdrifter
06-16-2017, 04:06 AM
The problem is usually not the relay itself. The socket in the fuse block grips the relay pins. It can become bent. This makes the relays contact intermittent. Wiggling the relay slightly with the engine running may reproduce your problem.

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-16-2017, 04:27 AM
Yes, i think we are trying to fix the problem with the eyes closed. Here is difficult find a scan tool that can read the codes in a sprinter. I will look more mechanical workshops to find one with a proper scan tool. Thankyou

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-16-2017, 04:31 AM
The problem is usually not the relay itself. The socket in the fuse block grips the relay pins. It can become bent. This makes the relays contact intermittent. Wiggling the relay slightly with the engine running may reproduce your problem.

I move a little the relay with the engine running and the problem did not reproduce.

lindenengineering
06-16-2017, 05:38 AM
Yes, i think we are trying to fix the problem with the eyes closed. Here is difficult find a scan tool that can read the codes in a sprinter. I will look more mechanical workshops to find one with a proper scan tool. Thankyou

Roberto
Hola y pregunta
Cual es sockete de enchufa diagnóstico?
Tal como
Rectangular come carros Gringos con 16 passadores o es redondo como formas europeos y además ese incluyendo las formas antiguas de MB con 40 pasadores.
Tal como:
http://pinoutguide.com/CarElectronics/car_obd2_pinout.shtml

O similar asi
https://www.google.com/search?q=views+around+diagnostic+connector&sa=X&rlz=1C1AVNC_enUS737US737&tbm=isch&imgil=FzJ-MOAA7b1lvM%253A%253Bl5cBLpMmRh9CgM%253Bhttp%25253A %25252F%25252Fwww.tuningfiles.com%25252Fcase-new-holland-and-john-deere-9-pin-diagnostic-connector-cable-for-bosch-ecu-ms6-4.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=FzJ-MOAA7b1lvM%253A%252Cl5cBLpMmRh9CgM%252C_&usg=__q5JCfKhme0g3GFd1Frup0s-nMpI%3D&biw=1899&bih=1062&ved=0ahUKEwixt5iCxcHUAhWW8oMKHU-EBPoQyjcILw&ei=C2BDWfGFGZbljwTPiJLQDw#imgrc=FzJ-MOAA7b1lvM:

O posiblemente ese???

https://www.google.com/search?q=round+mercedes+diagnostic+plug+40+pin&rlz=1C1AVNC_enUS737US737&tbm=isch&imgil=QO4pA-GGlqcfzM%253A%253Bbz8DjqlNlORQGM%253Bhttp%25253A%2 5252F%25252Fwww.hfmscan.com%25252Fen%25252Fmercede s_diagnose_kkl_soft.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=QO4pA-GGlqcfzM%253A%252Cbz8DjqlNlORQGM%252C_&usg=__f3cZkwjmQ81G7BQ6lTyJWGqMUm8%3D&biw=1899&bih=1062&ved=0ahUKEwi7rrmtxcHUAhUX5mMKHfWGDEoQyjcINg&ei=ZmBDWbvjB5fMjwP1jbLQBA#imgrc=QO4pA-GGlqcfzM:

Dennis

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-16-2017, 06:35 AM
is this:
http://pinoutguide.com/CarElectronics/car_obd2_pinout.shtml

The output of my sprinter is the 16-pin obdII. The scanners here have the same output. Scanners can be connected but can not read. They only read nissan honda ford dodge and chevrolet. The place with the best scanner had a SNAP ON. The snap on scanner needed an electronic key as a 1990s video game cartridge that the owner did not have.


The sprinter here was sold very little in the mercedes benz car agencies, it is not considered a truck freightliner or dodge, because of that, almost nobody here has the tool to service.

SneakyAnarchistVanCamper
06-16-2017, 10:02 AM
Have you checked the EGR? It can cause stumbling afaik by sticking open and diluting the engines air supply with too little oxygen. Compare set rail pressure to actual rail pressure during fault. When my sprinter started randomly shutting off, it was the fuel rail solenoid failing to maintain pressure. It would shut off instantly. It wouldn't always turn on the check engine light or log a code, and it would start right back up after cycling the key. Does this sound like your symptoms?

lindenengineering
06-16-2017, 12:46 PM
is this:
http://pinoutguide.com/CarElectronics/car_obd2_pinout.shtml

The output of my sprinter is the 16-pin obdII. The scanners here have the same output. Scanners can be connected but can not read. They only read nissan honda ford dodge and chevrolet. The place with the best scanner had a SNAP ON. The snap on scanner needed an electronic key as a 1990s video game cartridge that the owner did not have.


The sprinter here was sold very little in the mercedes benz car agencies, it is not considered a truck freightliner or dodge, because of that, almost nobody here has the tool to service.

OK
Roberto
Which identity key do they need?
S44?
Dennis

lindenengineering
06-16-2017, 12:56 PM
Roberto
While they are looking for which key is needed (I have a variety of keys available ) you might like to ask them if their Snap On tool has GLOBAL OBD2 in the menu ?

In that menu you can start to scan any car with OBD2 programming immediately for faults without the right identity key
By the way what Snap On tool do they have?
Solus--Solus Pro?

In that way you can interrogate the van without having the exact key.
Amistades
Dennis

Aqua Puttana
06-16-2017, 01:12 PM
... Scanners can be connected but can not read.
...
Has anyone tried a generic OBDII scan tool? If a generic scan tool will not communicate with at least the engine module you may have a CAN bus communication issue, or an OBDII socket problem.

Pins can be bent/displaced in the socket. Incorrectly wired aftermarket electronic devices have some history of interfering with CAN communication.

vic

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-16-2017, 08:30 PM
Roberto
While they are looking for which key is needed (I have a variety of keys available ) you might like to ask them if their Snap On tool has GLOBAL OBD2 in the menu ?

In that menu you can start to scan any car with OBD2 programming immediately for faults without the right identity key
By the way what Snap On tool do they have?
Solus--Solus Pro?

In that way you can interrogate the van without having the exact key.
Amistades
Dennis

I don´t see what key need the scan tool, but i see in the display of the scan tool a request to use a Communication cable number "14" and the owner of the worckshop dont have them. The scaner was a SOLUS model.

This morning I went to a workshop specializing in European cars and difficult problems.
The mechanic detected that there is no communication in the data port of the truck.

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-16-2017, 08:32 PM
Have you checked the EGR? It can cause stumbling afaik by sticking open and diluting the engines air supply with too little oxygen. Compare set rail pressure to actual rail pressure during fault. When my sprinter started randomly shutting off, it was the fuel rail solenoid failing to maintain pressure. It would shut off instantly. It wouldn't always turn on the check engine light or log a code, and it would start right back up after cycling the key. Does this sound like your symptoms?

My sprinter has different symptoms. When i am driving The engine turns of and then The engine turns on with the inertia of the vehicle without using the starter motor. The engine feels just as powerful as new. I have a "clean" EGR valve, and i dont move this part of the van in one year. I use them 4000 miles in this last year.

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-16-2017, 08:39 PM
Has anyone tried a generic OBDII scan tool? If a generic scan tool will not communicate with at least the engine module you may have a CAN bus communication issue, or an OBDII socket problem.

Pins can be bent/displaced in the socket. Incorrectly wired aftermarket electronic devices have some history of interfering with CAN communication.

vic

We try to use 5 or 6 different scanners OBDII, some simple some others very sophisticated and good. I think you have the reason. I have another additional problem. The data port is out of communication.

I don´t understand what is a CAN bus communication issue, if i have a socket problem can i do a diagnostic with a multimeter?

Anyone know a special socket cleaning technique?

autostaretx
06-17-2017, 02:43 AM
"CAN bus communication issue," ... the Sprinter uses a computer network (think "ethernet", but simpler) to talk between the various computers (ECM, TCM, ABS, SRS ...) that are located in various places in the Sprinter (some in the dashboard, some under the driver's seat).
So the "issue" could be damage to those wires, or a loose or contaminated (such as transmission oil following the wires from the transmission to the TCM (transmission control module) under the driver's seat.

Unfortunately ... the CAN bus can not be easily tested with a voltmeter.
--dick

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-17-2017, 03:50 AM
"CAN bus communication issue," ... the Sprinter uses a computer network (think "ethernet", but simpler) to talk between the various computers (ECM, TCM, ABS, SRS ...) that are located in various places in the Sprinter (some in the dashboard, some under the driver's seat).
So the "issue" could be damage to those wires, or a loose or contaminated (such as transmission oil following the wires from the transmission to the TCM (transmission control module) under the driver's seat.

Unfortunately ... the CAN bus can not be easily tested with a voltmeter.
--dick

Now with your explanation I understand what the CAN intercom system is, I am going to design a plan of action with different things to check. I think I'll clean the obdII port. I will look for easy things and continue reading here. They gave me an appointment for a month and a half in a specialized mechanic workshop. I hope to beat them and cancel the appointment about seven days before.

Thank You.

Roberto Valdez Chacon
06-17-2017, 10:58 PM
In the OBDII place:

Is it normal for holes marked with a NO to be without copper connector inside?

autostaretx
06-18-2017, 04:50 AM
That's not good, but it should not affect a "normal" OBD scanner from working.
Pins sometimes get pushed into the socket if a plug with a bent pin is pushed on too hard.

Here is your photo, with pin numbers added plus a red circle on the missing pin:

87040

Here is what Mercedes runs to the socket ("-" means no wire, no pin)

87041

Here is how that connector appears in the service manual wiring:

87042

For a "normal" OBD scanner, pin 12 is "manufacturer optional" ... so Ford may not have one, GM does.

CTM is the Central Timer Module, SSM is the System Security Module

--dick
MB diagrams from section 8W of this manual: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf

Aqua Puttana
06-19-2017, 02:27 PM
Any pins being damaged would make me suspect that other pins could be questionable. Is one, or more, of the pushed out pins shorting to some other pin? That could affect the CAN bus operation.

I would put a high priority on resolving the OBDII connector issues. Even if it doesn't resolve your operation problems the information presented after OBDII communication is re-established may help overall troubleshooting efforts.

vic

Roberto Valdez Chacon
07-11-2017, 05:19 PM
Yesterday i can fix the connectors of the OBD2 port. Today a friend scanned the sprinter and threw the following codes:

P1630-Immobilizer_
P2045-Crankshaft Position Sensor Circuit Lost Signal_
P2137-Glow Plug Failure-Cylinder #5_ (the scann tool shows "throttle pedal")
P2356-Ecm Internal Error_ (the scann tool shows "Erratic throttle pedal circuit")
04 SRS (the scann tool shows "r 12/3 air bag")


When the fault occurs, the engine does not go out, it is idle. Find that detail by moving the drive lever to neutral. By moving the accelerator the engine wakes up again.

treehouselab
07-11-2017, 11:01 PM
A few years ago, I had problem with similar symptoms. Turned out to be a loose cable on the throttle module. Dealer charged me $250 for the scan codes, wanted $5k to fix it, including a new throttle and ECU. I fixed it by resetting the cable.

Roberto Valdez Chacon
07-12-2017, 09:43 PM
I'm in a similar situation. I am less afraid of the fault because its recurrence has not increased. It does every 5 km and it does not turn off, I just need to move the accelerator.

For security I want to correct the fault and for knowledge I want to do it myself. In my state there are at most 5 sprinters t1n and there is no mechanic in 300 km round.

I will move and clean the connectors to the throttle body and pedal to see if that is.

Roberto Valdez Chacon
07-18-2017, 06:32 PM
The answer:


I had the brake pedal sensor wrong.
First adjust it as Aqua says in the copies of a maintenance book that went up to the forum.

Then I decided to leave it connected but out of position. The brake lights are on but I have no faults. I will change the sensor or see if cleaning it works.

Thank you very much, I learned a lot looking for the fault.

Greetings.