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PaulDavis
03-30-2017, 03:07 PM
I've generally tried not to listen too much to the "Sprinters suck because they cost so much to keep running" crowd on Sprinter-Forum, at least since I bought mine 3+ years ago. Yeah, there was the US$2000 for the Nox sensors last summer. And the stuff that was fixed under warranty but would have cost a fortune a bit later. And the US$3000 for something or other.

But this one tips me over the edge. We're currently stuck in Grenoble, France (hey, no complaints there! 75F, clear skies, snow covered Alps all around and spring thoroughly underway) waiting for the repairs to our 2010 2500 which will only cost us ...

EIGHT THOUSAND EURO

Not only did we suffer two catastrophic failures with the exhaust pathway (completely broken exhaust pipe right after the catalytic converter, and some other gasket-related nonsense near the exhaust outflow from the engine), but it also turns out that the turbocharger needs replacing (broken fan/turbine blade, scary).

And because they didn't order the new exhaust system (which is US specific) from Germany last Friday, when I authorized them to do so, we are now stuck here until Tuesday. The first few days were actually pretty lovely, and the expected repair cost was on the order of 2000 EU.

But now, include me in the crowd of Sprinter maintainance whiners and grumpy old bastards, because this is freakin' ridiculous. Five thousand (dollars/euros ... it's all about the same now anyway) for the parts alone for the exhaust system and the turbo?

That said, Dauphin Poids Lourds do have a friendly english speaking service guy, and have at least been reasonably good at communicating what is going on and managing expectations.

morre
03-30-2017, 03:40 PM
it looks like you just being taken for a ride by local repair shop thats all.
any exhaust damage can be fixed/welded for much less then $2000, at least get temporary repair till you get home. you can always try to get used turbo, if not possible then new turbo in usa cost about $2100.
in europe it should be less, european parts in europe always cheaper then in usa.

PaulDavis
03-30-2017, 03:56 PM
No, I've checked all the parts prices. There's no ripoff, in fact most of the parts are cheaper. But the particular place where the break happened (photos posted in another thread last week) makes welding really hard, and Mercedes does not sell anything except a much longer upstream section.The net turbo cost is just around 2000 EU. The exhaust system part is another 2000 EU. I've voraciously read threads here on turbo failures and concluded that installed a reconditioned/rebuilt one is a bad idea, based on those threads.

They are also replacing 2 glow plugs (with parts I supplied), and fixing some other dubious work done on the engine by prior mechanics (nothing major, but loose odds and ends). Oh, and finally, because nobody is sure where the broken part of the turbo fan blade ended up, the intercooler is getting swapped too. The price for that is a little high.

PaulDavis
03-30-2017, 04:05 PM
I also just noted that 1328 EU of the cost is french VAT. Alas, this is not subject to a refund when we leave the EU.

smiller
03-30-2017, 05:36 PM
More than a few people (myself included) have discovered broken exhaust hangers, and once these fail all the weight of the exhaust system is supported by the cat converter or DPF (depending on how the vehicle is equipped) and you can guess the inevitable result. Also outright failure of a turbo blade out of the blue is very uncommon, most likely it was due to something like ingestion of some foreign object, perhaps an improperly installed turbo inlet gasket as a result of your prior 'dubious work.'

Not that any of that helps right now of course, sucks and I hope you are back on the road soon.

PaulDavis
03-30-2017, 05:43 PM
thanks for that. ironically ... last summer, my local MB tech warned me about the exhaust system but guessed it might last another 10k miles of our proposed usage. It wasn't a bad guess - it lasted about 6k. BUT ... when things went wrong on the road, I got under the vehicle and one of the things that immediately caught my eye (wierd - the broken exhaust pipe did not! :) was a bolt missing from a hanger that is part of the catalytic converter. Given where the breakage occured, I think that your guess/analysis/observation is correct, and I now find myself wondering if the bolt was missing last summer or not ... well, water under the bridge anyway.

GeorgeRa
03-30-2017, 05:50 PM
Sorry about your problems, I am glad that USD is high, but 8K Euro is not good. Have fun in Grenoble.

George.

Bobnoxious
03-30-2017, 07:10 PM
I maintain all my vehicles, especially the Sprinter, same as an airplane, frequent visual inspections using multiple checklists, always vigilant for abnormal sounds. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Don't succumb to exaggerated industry claims of extended service intervals. Complete hooey!

Sprinter SS
03-30-2017, 07:57 PM
So I guess labor is about 2000 Euro?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

GeorgeRa
03-30-2017, 08:06 PM
.....................An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..............................

Indeed!

George.

Brokecanadian
03-30-2017, 08:12 PM
I maintain all my vehicles, especially the Sprinter, same as an airplane, frequent visual inspections using multiple checklists, always vigilant for abnormal sounds. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Don't succumb to exaggerated industry claims of extended service intervals. Complete hooey!

You know how that sounds to the general public right?

Nothing I've seen lately has made me want to replace my 2005. Or not buy a Ford next time. I fear MB is scaring their customers away permanently and not caring

Bobnoxious
03-30-2017, 09:32 PM
Yes, by "General public" aka Sheeple, I guess you mean the Ass&Gas crowd? Those who only put their ass and gas in their car?

Brokecanadian
03-30-2017, 09:38 PM
Yes, by "General public" aka Sheeple, I guess you mean the Ass&Gas crowd? Those who only put their ass and gas in their car?

I'm just cranky. Or getting old. Almost time to pay somebody else to fix stuff

Probably cars aren't getting less reliable on the whole but I miss my Ford E350...1,600,000 miles with no engine or trans work whatsoever, 50k mile oil changes and 3 fluid exchanges for the tranny...21 mpg too

International should make a delivery van (they designed the 7.3)

Turning the key on the Sprinter is always good for suspense...and I've got the reliable one

Cvollmar
03-30-2017, 10:08 PM
The Exhaust breaking at the flex pipe is very common. I have replaced six of them since the first of the year. Whats even worse is that if it happens to go into a regen while its broken it ends up melting all kinds of wiring under there which then blows the fuse and the truck then stops dead and will not restart. I have had a couple of them that did this on the highway. MB charges eight hours labor to replace the DPF. Dennis has said that he has been able to repair them by welding a new flexpipe on the end and there are aftermarket kits out there that claim they can be clamped. I have not tried them and they probably wouldn't allow it any way.

Geriakt
03-30-2017, 11:30 PM
Are you an American traveling with your NAFTA Sprinter in France? How did you get it over there? Your info says you are from Philly?

Hooligan
03-31-2017, 04:26 AM
Are you an American traveling with your NAFTA Sprinter in France? How did you get it over there? Your info says you are from Philly?

I was wondering the same thing, seems like shipping a van overseas can't be cheap.

PaulDavis
03-31-2017, 07:42 AM
Are you an American traveling with your NAFTA Sprinter in France? How did you get it over there? Your info says you are from Philly?

All explained here: https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51713

Geriakt
03-31-2017, 02:13 PM
I was making the assumption you shipped your Sprinter to Europe but know it is clear you did so. Of course the one thing you did not consider in your plan was a major mechanical failure. I hope it does or have worked out for you to get back on the road.

PaulDavis
03-31-2017, 02:30 PM
Actually, I did consider it. Really, things are not much better or worse in the EU than they would be in the USA. Here, our chances of being closer to an MB Sprinter repair shop were higher; at home, the repair shop would all speak English and would be in the same timezone as most sprinter-source forum folks :) Thanks for the kind thoughts.

SprinterHelp
03-31-2017, 09:29 PM
Don't know if you got DPF prob too but you can buy from OEM suoolier the cat and dpf for under 500 bucks. probably under 6 with shipping. That's the EURO DPF

PaulDavis
04-06-2017, 01:22 PM
So, that part of the story is over. 7850 EU later, I have a new core exhaust system, new turbocharger, new NoX sensor, new intercooler, and as a side effect 2 new glow plugs.

Drove 350 miles the afternoon after collecting (and paying for the repairs). Van is much quieter (though still far from "new")). Not worth 7850 EU, but still nice to (not) hear.

Woke up the next day. What do you know, new check engine light. P042D ... catalytic temperature sensor failure. Van drives OK but oddly the scanguage ODBII reports dramatically reduced average and current gas mileage. This doesn't appear to match the experience of the day: 352 miles at 68-69 mph with 2 bars left ... this is normal behaviour for this vehicle, so I am confused.

Visiting a new dealer/repair place now back in the UK, so at least I can talk extensive english to the next set of wallet-liners.

flman
04-06-2017, 02:56 PM
Loved my NCV3 for the first 3 years too.

sprint2freedom
04-06-2017, 04:51 PM
Woke up the next day. What do you know, new check engine light. P042D ... catalytic temperature sensor failure. Van drives OK but oddly the scanguage ODBII reports dramatically reduced average and current gas mileage.

This thing?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Exhaust-Temperature-Sensor-A0081534128-Freightliner-Dodge-amp-Mercedes-Benz-/172184772275

I wonder if a visual inspection of the wiring from this sensor would reveal anything.

Bobnoxious
04-06-2017, 10:14 PM
So, that part of the story is over. 7850 EU later, I have a new core exhaust system, new turbocharger, new NoX sensor, new intercooler, and as a side effect 2 new glow plugs.

Drove 350 miles the afternoon after collecting (and paying for the repairs). Van is much quieter (though still far from "new")). Not worth 7850 EU, but still nice to (not) hear.

Woke up the next day. What do you know, new check engine light. P042D ... catalytic temperature sensor failure. Van drives OK but oddly the scanguage ODBII reports dramatically reduced average and current gas mileage. This doesn't appear to match the experience of the day: 352 miles at 68-69 mph with 2 bars left ... this is normal behaviour for this vehicle, so I am confused.

Visiting a new dealer/repair place now back in the UK, so at least I can talk extensive english to the next set of wallet-liners.

Sometimes, check light will clear after some miles. Check sensor connector.