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Aircraft Wrench
02-15-2009, 04:50 PM
Backround

I changed the fluid 2 weeks ago, dropped the electrical valve body, drained the converter (I'll post my tech tip on that later) (Redline D4)

I installed 8 quarts of oil, ran the van in Drive up and down the road, measured the voltage, converted to temp and level....and had many problems getting the fluid up high enough....I even poured the old fluid into the bottles to confirm the amount....I then measured my homemade dipstick and found it not to reach the bottom of the pan...ARRRRRRGGH no wonder I had NO RSN because I had about 1 quart too much fluid:bash: I drained the fluid out to the level specified with the charts etc and drove a short trip (180 miles) and the RSN was horrible!!!!!:cry: I monitored the temp on the whole trip and it did not get above 1.61 volts

The day after I got home, I checked the fluid level again with the tranny in Drive, parking brake on and the level appears to be low:idunno: I'm gonna add 1/2 quart (16 oz) and drive around some ...couple of days....

I'll post pics of my dipstick tonight etc...

So...anyone else noted level change issues? how did you deal with it? does installing more oil than the charts call for really show problems with "Foam" (level within the level below the planetary gear area)

poiuytrewq
02-15-2009, 05:25 PM
I have read many posts about this rsn and the level of fluid. In the last year i have changed the fluid 3 times, all in the hopes of eliminating the rsn. Original over priced mopar crap, redline , and now royal purple. Reading the manual, the transmission requires about 8 litres. I have come to the conclusion that this is not the case. When i add an extra litre, the rsn rarely happens. If i fill to the factory spec(regardless of fluid type) i get severe rsn. I did buy this van used so it is possible that there is some wear in this transmission. I know that over filling may have some consequences , but the dam rsn definately has consequences. I believe this is the lesser of the 2 evils. From now on i simply add 1 extra litre and be damned the consequence. I dont haul anything heavy, probably 1000lbs extra weight with tools . My thought is that maybe hauling heavy would cause the trans fluid temp to rise and thus expand, so my overfilling might cause some type of problem(cant imagine what) and maybe that is why the spec calls for less.

abittenbinder
02-15-2009, 05:45 PM
I checked the fluid level again with the tranny in Drive, parking brake on and the level appears to be low

The temp sensor reading is accessible in only D or Rev (while sitting in the cockpit) but the dipstick level should be checked in Park. Don't want to hear of you being run over. Doktor A

Aircraft Wrench
02-16-2009, 01:48 AM
Dr A

Thank you for clarifying that most important point!!!!

I shall check the level tomorrow and report back!!!

Best regards,

rlent
02-16-2009, 04:48 AM
The temp sensor reading is accessible in only D or Rev (while sitting in the cockpit) but the dipstick level should be checked in Park.
Ooops .... and I actually knew this at one point :bash: .... thanks Dok !!!!

abittenbinder
02-19-2009, 11:07 PM
The temp sensor reading is accessible in only D or Rev Doktor A

BTW, accessible only in D or Rev to both you AND the TCM.

If you are curious what that other "false"temp reading is when measured in P or N- this is the engine oil temperature.

This engine oil temp reading comes to the TCM via the CAN bus from the ECU. The TCM uses this value to sub for trans temp when in park or neutral and thus avoid a DTC.

Be careful and don't read the wrong temp value!

Doktor A

Aircraft Wrench
02-20-2009, 12:08 AM
whoa whoa WHOA!!!!!!

Engine oil temp when in "P or "N" ????? (i'm not sure what a DTC is but it sounds painful!)

What values relate to what temps Dr A.?


Do you have a chart?

I'm working on a digital readout conversion display and we can certainly add a value for those positions.....

Best,


Jimmy

jdcaples
02-20-2009, 08:02 AM
DTC == diagnostic trouble code

There are dozens of them; they are generated by an electronic control module that receives sensor input that it's not expecting, or sensor input that indicates big trouble in little Sprinter.

contractor
02-20-2009, 11:04 AM
Backround

I changed the fluid 2 weeks ago, dropped the electrical valve body, drained the converter (I'll post my tech tip on that later) (Redline D4)

I installed 8 quarts of oil, ran the van in Drive up and down the road, measured the voltage, converted to temp and level....and had many problems getting the fluid up high enough....I even poured the old fluid into the bottles to confirm the amount....I then measured my homemade dipstick and found it not to reach the bottom of the pan...ARRRRRRGGH no wonder I had NO RSN because I had about 1 quart too much fluid:bash: I drained the fluid out to the level specified with the charts etc and drove a short trip (180 miles) and the RSN was horrible!!!!!:cry: I monitored the temp on the whole trip and it did not get above 1.61 volts

The day after I got home, I checked the fluid level again with the tranny in Drive, parking brake on and the level appears to be low:idunno: I'm gonna add 1/2 quart (16 oz) and drive around some ...couple of days....

I'll post pics of my dipstick tonight etc...

So...anyone else noted level change issues? how did you deal with it? does installing more oil than the charts call for really show problems with "Foam" (level within the level below the planetary gear area)

It sounds like you have a lot of variability with your measuring technique and you have a homemade dipstick. I suggest you spend the money and buy a real dipstick (this is a tool) so you don't damage your transmission. Please post a pic of this dipstick ...

Aircraft Wrench
02-22-2009, 03:05 AM
Contractor,

Here is a pic....

The unit is made from 1/8" SS cable with heat shrink over the end...flexible yet stiff...the masking tape measures full engagement/depth of the cable

11673

See how it flexes

11674

Checked when tranny temp is around 150F


Tech tip...mark the Harmonic damper and a spot on the engine case with a paint marker when the torque converter is aligned with an access hole...11672

contractor
02-22-2009, 03:23 AM
Contractor,

Here is a pic....

The unit is made from 1/8" SS cable with heat shrink over the end...flexible yet stiff...the masking tape measures full engagement/depth of the cable

11673

See how it flexes

11674

Checked when tranny temp is around 150F


Tech tip...mark the Harmonic damper and a spot on the engine case with a paint marker when the torque converter is aligned with an access hole...11672

Hey AC

The issue that come to mind here is how did you initially calibrate the dipstick? I suspect that you had to presume the initial level was correct (maybe it was not). Also, did you fully level the vehicle?

The dipstick from MB has a shoulder 3-5" from the bottom that allows the stick to solidly bottom and give a more repeatable reading.

I like the tech tip of marking the HB ... very creative.

Aircraft Wrench
02-22-2009, 03:41 AM
I took the measurements from the Maintenance Manual...the chart gives a depth of fluid based on the temp conversion of the voltage from the temp sensor....the reading is in millimeters of fluid

I've attached the PDF previously posted on the forum.11675

Do you think the factory type dipstick DOES NOT touch the bottom of the pan??

BTW...I have more RSN now (with what I believe is the correct level, measured in Park, engine running) than before the fluid change.....:thinking:

Best regards,

Jimmy

Oh the van was leveled in my hangar,,,same place each time I have taken readings....(I put the tip on a paper towel and measure the fluid transfer...much easier than trying to see the fluid on the heat shrink...)

contractor
02-22-2009, 04:27 PM
I took the measurements from the Maintenance Manual...the chart gives a depth of fluid based on the temp conversion of the voltage from the temp sensor....the reading is in millimeters of fluid

I've attached the PDF previously posted on the forum.11675

Do you think the factory type dipstick DOES NOT touch the bottom of the pan??

BTW...I have more RSN now (with what I believe is the correct level, measured in Park, engine running) than before the fluid change.....:thinking:

Best regards,

Jimmy

Oh the van was leveled in my hangar,,,same place each time I have taken readings....(I put the tip on a paper towel and measure the fluid transfer...much easier than trying to see the fluid on the heat shrink...)

Jimmy:

While I don't have any blueprints of the tranny, I am speculating that the dipstick DOES NOT bottom in the pan. It is my belief that the little shoulder where the dipstick transitions from metal to plastic bottoms out where the fillertube meets the housing. This would give a more accurate reading and eliminate the "stack-up" error of the filler tube length and flexing of the metal dipstick. Please be aware this is just my opinion, perhaps someone like Doc who has been inside a tranny can shed more light on this. I have been fortunate and have not encountered any noticeable RSN (32K on the dial). I used the oil that Euro Auto sells for about $14/L.

Ken

talkinghorse43
02-22-2009, 04:53 PM
Jimmy:

While I don't have any blueprints of the tranny, I am speculating that the dipstick DOES NOT bottom in the pan. It is my belief that the little shoulder where the dipstick transitions from metal to plastic bottoms out where the fillertube meets the housing. This would give a more accurate reading and eliminate the "stack-up" error of the filler tube length and flexing of the metal dipstick. Please be aware this is just my opinion, perhaps someone like Doc who has been inside a tranny can shed more light on this. I have been fortunate and have not encountered any noticeable RSN (32K on the dial). I used the oil that Euro Auto sells for about $14/L.

Ken

I once made my own dipstick based on measurements supplied in a post on the yahoo sprintervan forum taken on an '04 by an owner with the screen name tvflorin. To shorten the story, the dipstick tube on my '02 is ~3" longer than that on an '04, so those measurements had me confused until I took everything apart and found that the dipstick tip is indeed touching the bottom of the pan when the measurement is taken. So, you're looking at mm of fluid above the bottom of the pan.

abittenbinder
02-22-2009, 05:28 PM
This has been discussed many times. Yes, the important measurement is- depth of fluid in pan.

A proper dipstick tool (whether home made or factory) will be: 1) long enough to reach the bottom of the pan and not interfere with upper end of tube and 2) It will touch bottom without bending or flexing when it makes contact with the bottom. THIS IS CRITICAL.

Even a factory dip stick tool ,if misused and FORCED, will flex its plastic tip when making contact with bottom, and give variable and false readings.

Another factor is fluid in the tube (above pan level). This can occur when filling and not allowing enough time for drain down OR dragging fluid up the tube with a homemade dipstick tip of excess diameter. Doktor A

kendall69
02-22-2009, 10:01 PM
Bottom line no one can ever determine with accuracy the level of fluid in a tranny if you don't have the dash reading.

All dip sticks flex and if they do flex you will never ever know FOR SURE what the lever is.

It will always be a guess, so it doesn't matter if your tranny is cold, warm or hot you might as well look into a crystal ball and get the level of your fluid.

How difficult is it to have a dip stick that fits in the hole and STOPS at the top of the filler tube like every other dip stick on the planet?

Yes I'm ticked because I wasted my money on the dip stick with the cheap plastic tip that bends when it hits the bottom of the pan, so I am able with three reading get LOW, RIGHT ON, and excessively HIGH, reading on my fluid depending on where I decide to stop pushing it in. GREAT PRODUCT.:yell:

abittenbinder
02-22-2009, 11:41 PM
All dip sticks flex and if they do flex you will never ever know FOR SURE what the lever is.


Sorry to hear of your frustration. The MBenz sourced, original German made, transmission level service dipstick has always served me well and gives consistent and accurate readings. Doktor A

talkinghorse43
02-22-2009, 11:44 PM
Bottom line no one can ever determine with accuracy the level of fluid in a tranny if you don't have the dash reading.

All dip sticks flex and if they do flex you will never ever know FOR SURE what the lever is.

It will always be a guess, so it doesn't matter if your tranny is cold, warm or hot you might as well look into a crystal ball and get the level of your fluid.

How difficult is it to have a dip stick that fits in the hole and STOPS at the top of the filler tube like every other dip stick on the planet?

Yes I'm ticked because I wasted my money on the dip stick with the cheap plastic tip that bends when it hits the bottom of the pan, so I am able with three reading get LOW, RIGHT ON, and excessively HIGH, reading on my fluid depending on where I decide to stop pushing it in. GREAT PRODUCT.:yell:

As I remember, there is a hole in the valve body that the dipstick passes through that is the same diameter as the inside of the dipstick tube. Also, the bottom of the valve body is very close to the bottom of the pan. So, you would have to push very hard indeed to get even the plastic tip of the MB dipstick to bend to a significant degree. If you were to push that hard, that tip would be folded like a pretzel when you pulled it out (if you could get it out in one piece).

Aircraft Wrench
02-23-2009, 01:01 AM
Dr A, I actually wait 6 to 8 hours after adding fluid to check the level....Please let me know when you are coming South...I'd like a check up....

Best

Jimster

abittenbinder
02-23-2009, 03:38 AM
whoa whoa WHOA!!!!!!

Engine oil temp when in "P or "N" ????? (i'm not sure what a DTC is but it sounds painful!)

What values relate to what temps Dr A.?

Do you have a chart?

I'm working on a digital readout conversion display and we can certainly add a value for those positions.....

Best,
Jimmy

The next Sprinter that I have in for system tests I will try to determine the Voltage to temp relationship for the oil temp values as reported by the TCM in P and N. I will update you. Doktor A

Aircraft Wrench
02-23-2009, 01:57 PM
Dr A,

I have looked at my "P" and "N" voltage values and have noted 5.03 VDC before and after driving to a tranny temp of 1.61 VDC..FWIW

Best,

talkinghorse43
02-23-2009, 02:23 PM
Dr A,

I have looked at my "P" and "N" voltage values and have noted 5.03 VDC before and after driving to a tranny temp of 1.61 VDC..FWIW

Best,

The Doktor's original level checking procedure posted on the yahoo sprintervan forum stated that those voltages were the "5 Volt reference voltage".

Aircraft Wrench
02-23-2009, 05:24 PM
Roger Tango Hotel 43!

Dr A mentioned that the Engine oil temp could be checked with the tranny in P or N...perhaps a different wire than the tranny temp wire...I don't know....I wouldn't mind having that extra bit of info displayed...:popcorn:

This forum has the Greatest People!!!:clapping:

talkinghorse43
02-23-2009, 05:36 PM
Me too! The more info the better.

talkinghorse43
02-24-2009, 06:08 PM
Dr A,

I have looked at my "P" and "N" voltage values and have noted 5.03 VDC before and after driving to a tranny temp of 1.61 VDC..FWIW

Best,

Looked at the voltages available on this wire on my '02 this AM too after a short errand trip. Even though I used aux & then booster heat, the fact that the outside temp was 20F meant that the engine temp was only about 160F. In R, the tranny temp read 1.41v and in P it read 4.96v. Both readings were with with my high quality $9 chinese DVM (garbage freight). Seems to me that the 5v reference voltage idea is probably correct, at least for the T1N. Since yours is an '06, maybe oil temp is only available from this wire in P & N on the NCV3? Or, as you suggest, a different wire for both models.

Aircraft Wrench
02-24-2009, 10:53 PM
TH,

I think there is a split between year models for the voltage we are looking at...I ALWAYS have 5.03 VDC cold or hot engine...maybe Dr A has another point to measure Engine oil temp....I should check out the expanded instruments on the scangauge again...I didn't see temp before but then again....I'm blind...or illiterate..

Best,

Jimmy

Doug
02-25-2009, 01:04 AM
Go back and read DR.A post. You have to have the truck in DRIVE or REV. to git a temp reading. And to read the dip stick in PARK so you do not run over yourself.

Doug

Aircraft Wrench
02-27-2009, 03:23 PM
Doug,

I do have correct voltages in Drive or Reverse for tranny temp......Dr A alluded to seeing Engine oil temp voltage in Park or Neutral....TH has differnt indications in his van than I do in my 06 ( I always see the 5.03VDC cold or warm while in "P" or "N"....have you checked your voltage?

Best,

Jimster

abittenbinder
02-27-2009, 04:41 PM
The next Sprinter that I have in for system tests I will try to determine the Voltage to temp relationship for the oil temp values as reported by the TCM in P and N. I will update you. Doktor A

Here's more info that should clarify this issue. I had a '03 in the other day and fully instrumented for system tests and diagnostics. I took the opportunity to follow-up on your TCM temp questions.

The reference voltage of 5V is displayed in P and N. However the DRB display shows a temp in P+N (it's not the ATF temp) that does not even remotely correlate to the very high, off the chart temp that this 5V would represent if it were an actual temp reading.

The TCM uses this 5V signal in P+N , which corresponds to a absurdly high temp which cannot actually exist under any operating conditions, to validate position of the shift lever along with actual shifter position signals.

The DRB TCM sensor display (in P+N) however, shows a temp value which corresponds to the engine oil temp. I compared it to the sensor readings in the ECM's sensor display. This is the temp value the TCM monitors in P+N to prevent a DTC from being set (because of a missing or unacceptably high ATF temp reading). Remember- ATF temp value is not available to either you or to the TCM in P+N.

This P+N engine oil temp reading (at the TCM) most likely comes from the ECM via the CAN Bus and would not be available to your voltmeter at the TCM terminals.

Unlike the ATF temp reading, it is not a simple reference voltage modified by the temp sensor resistor, rather it is part of a packaged block of PWM signals interpreted by the ECM to derive the oil temp reading.

Sorry for the false hope. Doktor A

Aircraft Wrench
02-27-2009, 05:23 PM
Ahhhhh,

Ths code has been cracked. thanks for the report....so we know the temp is combobulated thru the CAN Bus....

Thats all the farther I'm probably gonna take it!

Best regards,

Jimmy

abittenbinder
02-27-2009, 05:38 PM
the temp is combobulated thru the CAN Bus....
Jimmy

An acceptable summary of my rather long winded :snore: post. Doktor A

jdcaples
02-27-2009, 06:11 PM
I've always enjoyed - and learned much from - your long winded posts. I re-read them often.

Aircraft Wrench
02-27-2009, 11:17 PM
It was good doctorial dissertation Andy! Maybe you can smarten me up or dumb it down when you come South!

Best,

Jimster

ohlsonmh
04-02-2009, 09:11 PM
I have yet to see a Dodge Dealer technician who could get the same answer to "2+2+" six times in a row, and this sounds like Einstein wouldn't have been able to figure it out.

One big problem with German cars is that their engineers think they are just so "Cute". Everyone else on the planet just makes things WORK.

-Oly

abittenbinder
04-03-2009, 06:23 AM
One big problem with German cars is that their engineers think they are just so "Cute". Everyone else on the planet just makes things WORK.-Oly

Let's not forget who invented the automobile and the diesel engine and fuel injection and CAN bus communication and....it's a long list.

As for "thinking they are just so cute", you should see me in a thong. Doktor A

Aqua Puttana
04-03-2009, 06:35 AM
[QUOTE=

As for "thinking they are just so cute", you should see me in a thong. Doktor A[/QUOTE]
My eyes.........my eyes........WTMI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! vic

rlent
04-03-2009, 08:20 AM
As for "thinking they are just so cute", you should see me in a thong. Doktor A
Man ....... now that was a mental picture I reeeaaally didn't need .......... :eek:

jdcaples
04-03-2009, 04:19 PM
Salma Hayek, Salma Hayek, Salma Hayek...

Ok, I'm better now.

abittenbinder
04-03-2009, 06:01 PM
My eyes.........my eyes........WTMI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! vic

I'll have you know, the ladies voted me "Cutest Arsch" at the Chippendales annual German Auto Engineers Review, 3 years running. To be fair, the competition did resemble beer barrels. Very large beer barrels. Doktor A

Aqua Puttana
04-04-2009, 02:08 AM
I'll have you know, the ladies voted me "Cutest Arsch" at the Chippendales annual German Auto Engineers Review, 3 years running. To be fair, the competition did resemble beer barrels. Very large beer barrels. Doktor A
Heidi Klum.....Heidi Klum.....Heidi Klum

You're right Jon, it does help. That and Murine Eye Drops. I can almost see her now.

12369

Bajabum
04-08-2009, 08:19 AM
The temp sensor reading is accessible in only D or Rev (while sitting in the cockpit) but the dipstick level should be checked in Park. Don't want to hear of you being run over. Doktor A

So you check the fluid level while the transmission is in PARK? I have been checking mine while the wheels were blocked and the transmission was in D, as was stated in a write-up. With all the talk about transmissions there should be ONE definitive post that contains all the correct information so we don't have to go back and forth trying to figure out what's what.
Does anyone else think there is way to much complication in checking the fluid level in these vehicles. This whole issue of converting voltage to temp to determine where on the dip stick the level should be is way to complicated. Some of you guys like this kind of stuff but I just want to check the level with out all the crap. What's wrong with checking the fluid level with a cold engine? You don't have to guess or compute any temp variations that way. Sorry if I sound like a grump but I'm from the KISS crowd out here.

sikwan
04-08-2009, 08:25 AM
Mine was checked while in Drive. I did check it when it was in Park and the fluid went over and above the max level. :idunno:

Aqua Puttana
04-08-2009, 01:04 PM
//snip//
What's wrong with checking the fluid level with a cold engine? You don't have to guess or compute any temp variations that way. Sorry if I sound like a grump but I'm from the KISS crowd out here.
For what it's worth, I drive my 2004 on errands for 15 minutes or so and then check the fluid level in park. The temperature should then be in a mid-range. That's close enough for the girl's I go with. The KISS crowds are great fans. Rock on. Hope this does some good.

abittenbinder
04-08-2009, 03:30 PM
I have never checked ATF levels with vehicle in DRIVE so I cannot comment on variations compared to checking in PARK but believe me when I say manufacturers do not want technicians standing in front of running vehicles while vehicle is in drive.

I suspect the confusion regarding level check in Drive came about because of the need to measure temperature of fluid in D or R position (due to access to transmission temp sensor circuit), the constant references to application of parking brake during measurement as well as references to shifting through gear selections during warm-up from cold start prior to measurement.

Check the ATF level in PARK. Doktor A

sikwan
04-08-2009, 04:04 PM
Check the ATF level in PARK.

I reread the service manual and Doktor A is correct.

Must not know how to read or got confused with the manual stating to shift the lever to all the drive gears before checking level. Sorry about that! Write-up has been changed to reflect that.

I'll do a short Park/Drive comparison soon.

Aqua Puttana
04-08-2009, 10:51 PM
//snip//
I'll do a short Park/Drive comparison soon.
Sikwan,
Have someone who's not on your insurance policy hold their foot on the brake while you check the level in park. Much the same as a wise union craftsman never lets any less senior guy hold the 40 foot ladder......oh wait, those are ancient history now that there's man lifts. Actually in this economy both 40 foot ladders and union craftsmen are now relics of the past.

Seriously, be careful doing the park test thing. vic

sikwan
04-08-2009, 10:56 PM
Have someone who's not on your insurance policy hold their foot on the brake while you check the level in park.

I think I had my wife hold the brake pedal when I was checking it in drive. We'll see how that goes again. :smirk:

SewerRatz
04-08-2009, 10:58 PM
I recall my 79 Le-mans dipstick said to check the fluid while running and in drive. I can not confirm this since the car is long gone now.

Aqua Puttana
04-08-2009, 11:26 PM
I think I had my wife hold the brake pedal when I was checking it in drive. We'll see how that goes again. :smirk:
They just called. I need to get to the Lost and Found to pick up my mind again. Happens too frequently anymore. Yep. I meant in drive.

Bajabum
04-09-2009, 06:26 AM
Mine was checked while in Drive. I did check it when it was in Park and the fluid went over and above the max level. :idunno:

So you have been driving with an over filled tranny? Hummm..........makes me question just how critical it is to have it just right. What about the idea of checking the fluid when it is cold? I can see how the fluid level will increase as the fluid temp increases but wouldn't the fluid volume be much more stable and accurate before it is heated?

KISS
Keep It Simple Stupid

rlent
04-09-2009, 06:47 AM
So you have been driving with an over filled tranny? Hummm..........makes me question just how critical it is to have it just right.
Possibly far less critical if it is slightly overfilled than say if it is underfilled.

What about the idea of checking the fluid when it is cold?
The factory dipstick tool has two ranges - one for hot (80C or 176F) and another for cold ...... er, well .... warm I suppose .... (25C or 77F)

Aircraft Wrench
04-10-2009, 04:22 AM
Sik

If your tranny has been overfilled, I think you should do the honorable thing and commit to an immediate tranny teardown inspection by Dr A.



and report back what damage you have caused to the rest of the fine Sprinter community....it would be the only right thing to so to restore your honor amongst the Group...

(and let me know how many oz. over it was, and if you had any RSN)


:cheers:


Best,

Jimmy

sikwan
04-10-2009, 04:41 AM
Don't think it's overfilled, Jimmy, because I still have the RSN. Plus, l only had 9 quarts at my disposal and only 8 quarts went in. :tongue: :smilewink: (thank goodness for my own personal write-ups, otherwise I would not have a recollection of how much I filled it with :lol:)


Seriously though, service manual recommends 7.7 liters (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2748) which is equal to 8.14 quarts. I may even be low, but I'll definitely check the two cases.

Aircraft Wrench
04-10-2009, 09:33 PM
Drat Batman!

maybe you are low!

Have a good weekend!

Jimmy

PeteInLongBeach
05-06-2009, 01:05 AM
The factory dipstick tool has two ranges - one for hot (80C or 176F) and another for cold ...... er, well .... warm I suppose .... (25C or 77F)

Does anyone know approximately how much fluid volume is represented between the cold range and hot range? My 2004 with only 5,000 miles on it showed no signs of leakage, but has RSN when cold, so I bought a factory dipstick to verify fluid level. I was surprised to find the reading was barely at the cold range when the fluid was at normal operating temperature. The transmission otherwise performs flawlessly.

Could the factory have underfilled?
Could there be a leak that stopped when the fluid got down to this level?
Is this low enough to have caused damage even at this low mileage?

talkinghorse43
05-06-2009, 03:08 AM
Does anyone know approximately how much fluid volume is represented between the cold range and hot range? My 2004 with only 5,000 miles on it showed no signs of leakage, but has RSN when cold, so I bought a factory dipstick to verify fluid level. I was surprised to find the reading was barely at the cold range when the fluid was at normal operating temperature. The transmission otherwise performs flawlessly.

Could the factory have underfilled?
Could there be a leak that stopped when the fluid got down to this level?
Is this low enough to have caused damage even at this low mileage?

Before adding, I would be absolutely sure of the measurement. Make sure the truck is on level ground, be sure of fluid temp (search on here for how to measure using DVM), and be sure the dipstick is fully inserted with the engine idling and tranny in park.

PeteInLongBeach
05-07-2009, 09:38 AM
Before adding, I would be absolutely sure of the measurement. Make sure the truck is on level ground, be sure of fluid temp (search on here for how to measure using DVM), and be sure the dipstick is fully inserted with the engine idling and tranny in park.

All the proper conditions for checking the fluid were met (I had just driven about 100 miles, so it was definitely warm enough). I'll be adding fluid this week, a little at a time until it is topped up. After reading some other related posts, I estimate it should need a little over a quart. Hope no damage has been done.

Sparkx
12-08-2016, 05:22 PM
The correct dip stick tool has a shoulder stop, it doesn't go to the bottom of the pan.

blisspacket
04-01-2017, 12:37 AM
Hopefully this thread isn't too dead; I note the last two posts are 2009, 2016, and now 2017....
A sharp left hand turn, slow speed accelerating, produced a beep from somewhere in my dash. I added trans fluid and no beeps, but now the RSN is part of my driving music. It hadn't been. This on the T1N. Just reporting.

sikwan
04-01-2017, 12:40 AM
How do you know the beep was for the tranny fluid?

Aqua Puttana
04-01-2017, 12:46 AM
Of course I am egotistical enough to believe that the "Hot Check" information should be added to this old(er) thread.

HOT Check the Transmission Fluid Level without Temperature Readings
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52918

Do with the information what you will.

vic

SneakyAnarchistVanCamper
04-01-2017, 01:24 AM
Blisspacket you need to properly measure it with a proper dipstick, you can't just go adding fluid just cause you hear a beep, you could cause serious damage. If I were you I would call all the local dealers for a dipstick in stock and get a ride there. Or order one from europarts 2 day shipping and stop driving it asap (imo).
You don't have a scanner, do you? Any check engine light lit? JSYK, the check engine light, when lit, does not produce any beep.

The DARF mod fixed my RSN for good. I highly recommend it. Btw, what fluid did you add and how much? You gotta be careful with these things..

blisspacket
04-01-2017, 02:00 AM
Purely I DON'T. I'm totally guessing. And, in my infrequent readings, I've not read of any beeps akin to this coming from Sprinters. I'm just adding to the field experiences looking for some guru who might have some firsthand answers..... The T1N has about 120K miles.... I bought the fluid from the Dodge man, it says Crossfire on it, and I'm pretty sure it fits the MB specs. This was all about 7 months ago. I added about 2/3 of a quart; sinner that I am, I have no dipstick.
I forgot: that dashboard beep in the middle of a hard left turn was also accompanied by a faltering of forward motion. VERY brief, but there. Thus I figured tranny oil was low, and it was sucking air.

Aqua Puttana
04-01-2017, 02:18 AM
Certainly overfilling the transmission is to be avoided.

Topping off with most any name brand ATFIII fluid is completely safe for the T1N NAG1 transmission. Better to have fluid than run it low/dry.

Some owners use the readily available Valvoline MaxLife ATF in the red jug.

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf

I have been using Shell 134 purchased in case lots from industrial lubricant suppliers.

http://hand.net.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140003580805_201006251627.p df

:2cents: vic

P.S. - MB236.14 spec ATF (eg. - Shell 134) is REQUIRED for some newer MB transmissions. It is backward COMPATIBLE with the Sprinter NAG1 transmission, not required.

Shell ATF 134 is mandatory for NAG2V Sport
transmissions with wet starting clutch and the
7G-Tronic (model 722.9/W7A 700/NAG2).
It can also be used in all 5-speed transmissions
with controlled torque converter lockup clutch for
vehicles with rear-wheel drive (model 722.6/
W5A 580/NAG1).