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spotco2
03-11-2017, 06:27 AM
I am looking at purchasing either a gently used 2500 crew or new and have been reading this forum trying to learn what to look out for.

I own a locksmith company. We run Ford E350's and generally they crank up in the mornings and don't shut down until the end of the day since we are using the invertors for power to run machines all day along with charging tool batteries and other things.

As I have been reading about the EGR issues and how to "properly drive a Sprinter" I'm slowly starting to rethink the purchase.

Is idling for an hour or more in between trips to customers really that bad on these diesels because anything else is really not an option in my industry?

I know a lot of other people in my industry that have these vans and either they love them and never have issues or they hate them because they are money pits and live in the shop.

sailquik
03-11-2017, 08:04 AM
Hi spotco2,
The answer may depend a lot on which engine you choose.
One of the members here is in the pet/small animal delivery business and he chose the
OM-651 4 cylinder after having both the OM-647 5 cylinder and the OM-642 V6.
He has to run the heat and AC for the animals he transports so his Sprinter spends
quite a bit of time idling, but he's also put on over 400,000 miles in around 3.5 years so
his Sprinter may spend some time idling, but there are long periods of interstate speed
> 65 mph running in the mix.
The OM-651 2.143 liter I4 cylinder has a much better tolerance for idling than the
OM-641 3.0 liter V6.
If your drivers/locksmiths can idle for a while, then travel at speed to the next job the
Sprinter 4 cylinder might be a good choice and you may get up to 23 mpg if not loaded
too heavily.
You could always add a RV or big truck type gen-set to take care of you stationary
power needs as an alternative.
How much power does it take to keep your machines and chargers going when your
vans are stationary?
Do you add heavy duty alternators, large batteries, huge inverters to the Ford Vans
you are using?
Perhaps a large battery bank, charged by the engine alternator (or a secondary
larger alternator) would give you all the stationary electrical power you need and
would avoid some of the long periods of idling.
You could even set it up so that when there is no electrical demand the engine
shuts off, and restarts, automatically when the battery levels drop to a certain
level. This would avoid idling when it's not necessary.
Borrow some techniques from the RV and boating industries for much better electrical
power management.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Eric Experience
03-11-2017, 08:46 AM
Spotco.
In Australia we run thousands of Sprinter Ambulances. In the warmer states they idle all day to keep the air con running. The secret to success is to make absolutely shore that only the correct oil is used. Eric.

smiller
03-11-2017, 08:57 AM
The OM-651 2.143 liter I4 cylinder has a much better tolerance for idling than the OM-641 3.0 liter V6.
Is that a factual statement or speculation? MB has never made any official pronouncement about the effects of long idling, much less about specific models (?)

Aqua Puttana
03-11-2017, 11:58 AM
I have no data.

Extended idling of any engine isn't ideal. The addition of emissions components doesn't improve the situation.

In my opinion there is a big difference between idling an already warmed small displacement diesel engine followed with subsequent driving, as opposed to starting a cold engine for extended idle and no driving.

There's been a bunch of discussion here about the negatives of idling Sprinters. I believe that there are only a small number of posts with actual problems blamed upon idling.

Not everyone reads this forum. My belief is that there are many Sprinters out there which are idled for various businesses. There is an adjustable high idle option available for the NCV3 models.

I once worried about extended idle of my T1N's. It doesn't concern me much anymore.

:2cents: vic

mikeme
03-11-2017, 02:07 PM
will either the 6 cyl or 4 cyl perform an active DPF regeneration at idle?

will it do so at fast idle?

has anyone looked at this?

if not, the increased load/rpm from driving would be required to let the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) maintenance cycle complete to prevent soot overload.

spotco2
03-11-2017, 03:16 PM
Hi spotco2,

You could always add a RV or big truck type gen-set to take care of you stationary
power needs as an alternative.
How much power does it take to keep your machines and chargers going when your
vans are stationary?
Do you add heavy duty alternators, large batteries, huge inverters to the Ford Vans
you are using?
Perhaps a large battery bank, charged by the engine alternator (or a secondary
larger alternator) would give you all the stationary electrical power you need and
would avoid some of the long periods of idling.
You could even set it up so that when there is no electrical demand the engine
shuts off, and restarts, automatically when the battery levels drop to a certain
level. This would avoid idling when it's not necessary.
Borrow some techniques from the RV and boating industries for much better electrical
power management.
Hope this helps,
Roger

We also use the engine idle for climate control here in Ga. Summers are hot and winters are cold. Even this time of the year we run heat in the morning and AC in the afternoon since these are complete work shops that we live in.

Current set up is factory alternator with a second AGM battery with an isolator and 2500 watt pure sine invertor and everything is run with #0 cable.

I have installed the same system in at least 8 vans and never had an issue, but they have all been gas burners. The Sprinter was going to be my first try with a diesel but Inknownothers with Ford, GM and Dodge diesels that do the same thing and never had emissions issues.

Might have to give a Transit a second look.

avanti
03-11-2017, 03:31 PM
If there are actual data on the question of whether idling a Sprinter is good or bad, I have not seen it.

--MB literature is silent on the topic
--Folks have reported hearsay: "My service advisor says...", "A senior Mercedes representative said in a presentation...."
--Lots of baseless opinions of the form "Common sense says..." or "All diesels [are/are not] damaged by extensive idling."
--People draw plausible but unsupported inferences "DEF regeneration can't happen at idle therefore..."
--Plenty of single-sample experiments. "I idle all the time and...", "My friend used to idle and his engine blew up."...
--People say "If it weren't ok, why would Mercedes offer high-idle options?"
--and then there are the "just so" declarations: "You would be crazy to idle your Sprinter".

IMO, none of this constitutes evidence one way or the other.

smiller
03-11-2017, 03:47 PM
Until a manufacturer (or someone else with similar resources) actually tests an engine line under extended idle conditions there never will be a hard evidence-backed answer, and there's not much incentive for anyone to do this. And even if done the things that are even quoted as potential issues (inadequate oiling, deposit build up, etc.) are going to vary dramatically by engine design and configuration, so even if such a test was performed it probably wouldn't be widely valid, any more than a long-term test at load of one engine is necessarily valid for another. Oil change intervals and such are the same in that if any damage is done it will be cumulative and not likely to be detected until higher miles, and many do not keep vehicles that long. If I knew I wasn't going to have a vehicle past 100k miles I wouldn't think about any of this stuff, any problems (to the extent that they exist) will be borne by the next owner anyway.

We can have pedantic debates about idling and oil and whatever until the cows come home but bottom line is that there will never be a 'right' answer (as long as absurd extremes are avoided) for everyone, every time, under all operating environments. Extended idling and long oil change intervals are widely not recommended throughout automotive circles but is this based on rock solid scientific evidence? No, and for all the foregoing reasons it will never be. Do as you please, life is a classroom.

spotco2
03-11-2017, 06:07 PM
My experiences lie heavily with GM 4.3, 5.3 and Ford 5.4 and 6.8.

Regular preventive maintenance and routine scheduled services could typically get us 250k-300k without much issue other than an occasional bolt on or tranny rebuild around 150k. All of these worked the same schedule of starting in the morning and not being turned off until the end of the day. Some would run 300+ miles a day while others run less than 50 a day and spend a majority of their life at idle.

This is what I am used to and why I suddenly have a severe pucker factor of a $45k+ vehicle (before modifications and build out) costing more than it's worth in maintenance and repairs, not to mention lost revenue during down times.

OrioN
03-11-2017, 07:00 PM
If there are actual data on the question of whether idling a Sprinter is good or bad, I have not seen it.

--MB literature is silent on the topic
--Folks have reported hearsay: "My service advisor says...", "A senior Mercedes representative said in a presentation...."
--Lots of baseless opinions of the form "Common sense says..." or "All diesels [are/are not] damaged by extensive idling."
--People draw plausible but unsupported inferences "DEF regeneration can't happen at idle therefore..."
--Plenty of single-sample experiments. "I idle all the time and...", "My friend used to idle and his engine blew up."...
--People say "If it weren't ok, why would Mercedes offer high-idle options?"
--and then there are the "just so" declarations: "You would be crazy to idle your Sprinter".

IMO, none of this constitutes evidence one way or the other.

For what it is worth, which around here appears to be nothing to to some... and particular those who speak from hear-say, conjecture, ulterior motives, boredom, etc....

I idled my 2008 V6 during year one a few time per week during the colder season, mostly cold engine scenario just after short jaunts (couple of km's). I fouled my EGR and sensors (cooler survived). Fortunately, the replacement sensors (two times) and egr were under warranty. The second time I was advised by the dealer to limit or not idling to avoid further issues. I no longer do, and at temperatures below 5C I use my engine Aux. heater to warm the motor up quickly, and 8 years later I have not experienced issues.



.


.

Uncle Dave
03-11-2017, 07:42 PM
Always an interesting topic.

When a vehicle is outfitted with Mercedes OEM high idle kit - it shuts off after 2 hours.

One could conclude that could be the limit supported by MB themselves.

I understand the newer sprinter also track OLM by time as well as mileage which would some the problem of what happens to the OCI when you idle extensively.

UD

smiller
03-11-2017, 07:58 PM
Always an interesting topic.

When a vehicle is outfitted with Mercedes OEM high idle kit - it shuts off after 2 hours.

One could conclude that could be the limit supported by MB themselves.
And if two hours is the limit even at high idle, is one hour such a good idea? I have no data, but still a thought worth considering.

avanti
03-11-2017, 08:11 PM
When a vehicle is outfitted with Mercedes OEM high idle kit - it shuts off after 2 hours.

Are you sure about this? I have never heard it before.

Some of the upfitters that offer auto-start features along with second engine alternators implement such a limit, but as far as I know it has nothing to do with the Mercedes high idle options. Do you have a reference?

autostaretx
03-11-2017, 09:23 PM
If there are actual data on the question of whether idling a Sprinter is good or bad, I have not seen it.

--MB literature is silent on the topic

Weellll..... the 2006 service manual says (page 7-1, first part of Cooling section):
--quote--------
ENGINE COOLING SYSTEM OVERHEATING
Establish what driving conditions caused the complaint.
Abnormal loads on the cooling system such as the following may be the cause:
* PROLONGED IDLE
* VERY HIGH AMBIENT TEMPERATURE
* SLIGHT TAIL WIND AT IDLE
* SLOW TRAFFIC
* TRAFFIC JAMS
* HIGH SPEED OR STEEP GRADES
-end quote----

... but that's not an NCV3.


--dick

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 02:56 PM
Are you sure about this? I have never heard it before.

Some of the upfitters that offer auto-start features along with second engine alternators implement such a limit, but as far as I know it has nothing to do with the Mercedes high idle options. Do you have a reference?

Yes.

Reference was here by a user with a rear AC unit that didnt cool well idling so they had a high idle installed, and confirmed it shut off after 2 hours.

I believe Advanced RV said something about this as well.

Ill try to dig it up.


UD

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 03:15 PM
And if two hours is the limit even at high idle, is one hour such a good idea? I have no data, but still a thought worth considering.

Thats a good question.

At some point you have to track hours as well as miles to make a service interval determination.

I run commercial operations off my vans (pet grooming) and have decided not to pursue idling, or fast idling + batteries as a mainstay power source but use gensets.

I'll keep the hours and reciprocating component wear off the big engine and transfer it to the little engine. Pre DPF/ EGR diesels- no problem post - too expensive to risk.

I get mixed reports at various dealers as to what they will and wont support and warranty wise in the case of a fouled EGR.


UD

avanti
03-15-2017, 04:16 PM
Yes.

Reference was here by a user with a rear AC unit that didnt cool well idling so they had a high idle installed, and confirmed it shut off after 2 hours.

I believe Advanced RV said something about this as well.


Yes, those systems do shut off. But, as I said, my understanding is that it is NOT the Mercedes high idle system that is doing it, but rather the electronics that the upfitter installed and programmed. In ARV's case, I believe it is the Silverleaf control system that is doing so.

Again, if I am wrong, I would appreciate a reference--your message was the first suggestion I have seen that the MB system was time-limited.

avanti
03-15-2017, 04:19 PM
I get mixed reports at various dealers as to what they will and wont support and warranty wise in the case of a fouled EGR.


What matters for warranty purposes is what is written in your warranty book--it is part of your sales contract. My 2014 warranty has no mention at all of idle.

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 05:13 PM
Ill dig back and see what I can find for you.

My warranty books dont mention idling either.

My NCV3 warranty book DOES say my vehicle is covered only if it is operated in a manner described in the operators manual or maintenance booklet and I cant find anything that mentions extended or high idling either.

I read this as any issues involving extended idling would not be covered as it isn't described in the manual.

UD

ptheland
03-15-2017, 05:15 PM
I would look at it this way. That big motor up in front of the van is designed to get the rig moving down the road. It's not really designed to idle for extended periods. Any electric generation or cooling that it runs as well is a side benefit of its main purpose.

On the other hand, a genset is designed from the outset to run for long periods at a constant speed. It's not going to be grossly overpowered for that job, but sized appropriately.

If I needed electric generation while the rig is sitting still, I'd look at solar or a genset. If I needed cooling, that genset could be used to power a separate cooling system.

I can't imagine that a separate generator would cost more to run than the vehicle motor. My educated guess is that it would be cheaper to put the wear and tear on a generator than on the vehicle's motor. If that generator fails, it can be completely replaced for far less than the cost of many repairs to the vehicle motor.

It boils down to using the right tool for the job. For occasional use as a generator or air conditioner, the vehicle's motor might be an acceptable choice, saving the cost of dedicated equipment. But for constant use, a separate generator is likely cheaper than anything else. You move the wear and tear off of the expensive vehicle components and on to relatively cheaper equipment.

Aqua Puttana
03-15-2017, 05:52 PM
Small generators often are not ideal when it comes to noise. For some applications that alone can knock them out of the running. (PUN intended.)

:2cents: vic

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 05:58 PM
In a casual camping environment I could get by with an alternator based system.

In a commercial environment a hybrid inverter/ genset combo we put about 1K hours on the genset.
In a genset only environment we run about 2K hours a year.

An extra 1 or 2 thousand hours a year on the main engine will have dramatic effect on the reciprocating assemblies lifespan and the EGR/DPF's life over the course of 5 years time. Not to mention you cant just go by mileage anymore when you operate like that you need to adopt an hourly maintenance based program - like a genset.

After 4 years working my rig has 34K miles on it and 3900 hrs on the genset.
Genset life is good for 15-40K hours with thousands of them running worldwide daily (kubota d722/ Onan RVQD8000) there are a plethora of dealers, rebuild kits and parts and low hour used units available, Its much easier to swap a genset out than lose the van due to engine trouble form expended operational time.

This leaves me with years upon years of life left in both major components to operate my business economically and reliably.


UD

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 06:43 PM
I have found no evidence to suggest operating a vehicle stationary for extended periods, such as ambulances, within manufacture's recommended rpm range detrimental. My only suggestion and recommendation is open the hood when practical. Doing so is reasonable and simple as it will allow waste heat to escape and may assistant engine cooling and minimize heat convection into van? Heat is kryptonite to sensitive electronic components, such as, ECUs and sensors.

Also note, that extended stationary vehicle operation places your vehicle in the "severe" operating category and, as a result, service intervals should be adjusted accordingly.

smiller
03-15-2017, 06:52 PM
My driveway goes immediately up a steep hill that requires near full throttle in my Sprinter RV. I do not climb that hill with a stone-cold engine. There is nothing in the owner's manual that specifically states not to. There is no warranty prohibition against it. There are no white papers I've found conclusively proving that such a practice would be detrimental to engine life. Go figure.

.

OrioN
03-15-2017, 07:08 PM
83986


.

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 07:12 PM
I have found no evidence to suggest operating a vehicle stationary for extended periods, such as ambulances, within manufacture's recommended rpm range detrimental. My only suggestion and recommendation is open the hood when practical. Doing so is reasonable and simple as it will allow waste heat to escape and may assistant engine cooling and minimize heat convection into van? Heat is kryptonite to sensitive electronic components, such as, ECUs and sensors.

Also note, that extended stationary vehicle operation places your vehicle in the "severe" operating category and, as a result, service intervals should be adjusted accordingly.

Do the people on this forum that claim to have had problems associated with extended idling constitute any evidence at all?

I could see the position of "proof" being questionable, but I find lots of "evidence" that it can cause issues.

Even if no problem arises there is certainly wear occurring to the rotational assemblies.

Agree on heat, agree on severe interval or even better.

UD

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 07:31 PM
Do the people on this forum that claim to have had problems associated with extended idling constitute any evidence at all?

I could see the position of "proof" being questionable, but I find lots of "evidence" that it can cause issues.j

Even if no problem arises there is certainly wear occurring to the rotational assemblies.

Agree on heat, agree on severe interval or even better.

UD

It's my understanding the majority engine wear boccurs during start up? Wear is going to occur on rotational assemblies regardless if the vehicle is stationary or traveling down the highway.

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 07:41 PM
If the vehicle isn't running and a generator is then the vehicle has zero wear for these hours. The wear goes to the genset.

If the vehicle engine is the genset every hour it runs wears your rotational parts.

Do you see claims here as evidence of an issue or no?

UD

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 07:45 PM
My driveway goes immediately up a steep hill that requires near full throttle in my Sprinter RV. I do not climb that hill with a stone-cold engine. There is nothing in the owner's manual that specifically states not to. There is no warranty prohibition against it. There are no white papers I've found conclusively proving that such a practice would be detrimental to engine life. Go figure.
.

You funny "King of the Hill" with the Pikes Peak driveway. Stop signs say stop, not stop and then go. I think I did read something in my owner's manual about avoiding abrupt acceleration during engine warm up. In fact, on page 2 of my handy-dandy officially issued Mercedes-Benz "Maintenance Booklet" recommends, among others, avoiding abrupt acceleration. However, it doesn't mention anything about extended stationary vehicle operation a.k.a. high idling. You don't gun the hell out of a cold engine because you have knowledge about such things. Millions of drivers don't have a clue what's going on under the hood.

Bob

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 07:48 PM
If the vehicle isn't running and a generator is then the vehicle has zero wear for these hours. The wear goes to the genset.

If the vehicle engine is the genset every hour it runs wears your rotational parts.

Do you see claims here as evidence of an issue or no?

UD

I have no argument with the above statement. As I understand the question of the OP was concerning extended stationary vehicle operation A.k.a. high idling.

Technically, IMHO, The terms "High and Low idling" the are not accurate to describe a vehicle operating stationary for extended periods as it may be confused with normal idling (approximately 900 RPM)?

My understanding there are two-idling options available, fixed or selectable low(1400 rpm) high(1900). The recommended rpm operating range on my sprinter is 1400 to 2800 RPM. Considering High and Low idling fall within the manufacture's recommended operational rpm range it would reasonably follow the high and low idle option/feature can be utilized without detriment.

Bear in mind, The Sprinter is equipped with newly developed and yet to be perfected complex exhaust after-treatment systems and technologies. In addition to generating copious amounts of heat, exhaust after treatment systems require special crank case lubricants, fluids and diligent/ competent attention to service/maintenance intervals in accordance with operating conditions.

Bob

avanti
03-15-2017, 07:49 PM
Two separate issues are being conflated here:

1) Does idling a Sprinter engine cause harm beyond normal wear and tear?

2) Is it better to run your Sprinter engine or a separate genset?

--There are few to no objective data available WRT #1. "Common sense" doesn't count.
--#2 is largely a matter of taste and/or economics.

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 07:52 PM
I have no argument with the above statement.

You didnt answer the question though.

UD

OrioN
03-15-2017, 08:01 PM
Two separate issues are being conflated here:

1) Does idling a Sprinter engine cause harm beyond normal wear and tear?

2) Is it better to run your Sprinter engine or a separate genset?

--There are few to no objective data available WRT #1. "Common sense" doesn't count.
--#2 is largely a matter of taste and/or economics.

Incomplete....

Number #1 needs to account for the use of the High-Idle option or not.






.

smiller
03-15-2017, 08:34 PM
"Common sense" doesn't count.
Apparently not ;)

Seriously, I understand what you are saying but you are insisting on hard evidence in an area where it simply doesn't exist and in the absence of same one does need to rely on experience or even, dare I say it, mechanical intuition. If yours says that it is OK to idle your engine for hours then do it I guess, at least as long as you have a warranty.

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 08:45 PM
You didnt answer the question though.

UD

That's because you answered your own question.

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 08:50 PM
There are plenty of posts on the forum talking about extended idling and EGR problems. Orions in this very thread is only one.

It seem like if a posted experience is counter to ones personal position it somehow its excluded from being considered "evidence."

If posts about issues that one experiences aren't considered evidence than whats the point of a forum?

I grant you calling evidence a fact is a leap, but there is simply lots of evidence to the potential issues here on display.



UD

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 08:50 PM
Incomplete....

Number #1 needs to account for the use of the High-Idle option or not.






.

An excellent and astute observation! That's why I object using the term idle as it may cause confusion.

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 08:52 PM
That's because you answered your own question.

Thats a dodge.


UD

Aqua Puttana
03-15-2017, 08:56 PM
That's a dodge.


UD
Nope.

A Mercedes.

:lol:

:cheers: vic

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 08:59 PM
thats funny!

UD

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 08:59 PM
There are plenty of posts on the forum talking about extended idling and EGR problems. Orions in this very thread is only one.

It seem like if a posted experience is counter to ones personal position it somehow its excluded from being considered "evidence."

If posts about issues that one experiences aren't considered evidence than whats the point of a forum?

I grant you calling evidence a fact is a leap, but there is simply lots of evidence to the potential issues here on display.



UD

EGR issues may or may not be related to extended stationary vehicle operation i.e. High idling. I was only making a claim concerning the high idle option based on manufacturers recommendations.

Formulate your own conclusions based on your own research. Operating my vehicle stationary for extended periods is actually a non-issue for me as I have no need to do it.

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 09:07 PM
Got it thanks.

I've never seen any manufacturers recommendations regarding this at all.

Love to see anything you can share.

UD

OrioN
03-15-2017, 09:12 PM
Nope.

A Mercedes.

:lol:

:cheers: vic

From King of to Benny....

Hill that is.



:smilewink:





.

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 09:42 PM
Got it thanks.

I've never seen any manufacturers recommendations regarding this at all.

Love to see anything you can share
UD

It would be reasonable and logical to conclude OEM options, such as, high idle, can be operated without detriment.

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 09:45 PM
It would be reasonable and logical to conclude OEM options, such as, high idle, can be operated without detriment.

I would say likely agree as well - as long as any preset durations involved would be respected.

Idling per say with no added RPM would seem to be at least controversial as to detriment.

UD

smiller
03-15-2017, 09:48 PM
It would be reasonable and logical to conclude OEM options, such as, high idle, can be operated without detriment.
Another reasonable and logical possibility would be that high idle reduces harmful effects of extended idling while not necessarily eliminating them. I don't understand the conclusion that the mere existence of a high idle function is somehow carte blanche to idle the engine all day.

And if normal idling hasn't been proven to be detrimental and/or MB doesn't prohibit it, why is there a high idle function at all?

.

OrioN
03-15-2017, 09:52 PM
I would say likely agree as well - as long as any preset durations involved would be respected.

Idling per say with no added RPM would seem to be at least controversial as to detriment.

UD

And the Winning Post award goes to?

Envelope please...........



.... Shane Goodwin for Rapture Denied. :idunno:

<<Low Audience Drone>>





Wait, the correct envelope has just been handed to me....


Uncle Dave for Succinct and Sober in LA.



<<Loud Audience Applause>>



.

Uncle Dave
03-15-2017, 09:56 PM
funny!

UD

avanti
03-15-2017, 10:03 PM
Another reasonable and logical possibility would be that high idle reduces harmful effects of extended idling while not necessarily eliminating them. I don't understand the conclusion that the mere existence of a high idle function is somehow carte blanche to idle the engine all day.

And if idling hasn't been proven to be detrimental, why is there a high idle function at all?

.

The Sprinter Equipment Handbook MY2014 says the following:

Benefits & Arguments
Constant rpm
--Necessary if a virtually constant rpm must be maintained in order to operate an auxiliary unit such as a pump.

Remarks
NOT suitable for operating 220V generators!

Recommended for:
- Ambulances
- Shuttle services
- Applications with longer idle times

So, the documented "Benefit" has to do with maintaining RPM required by take-off equipment. However, it is also recommends its use under long idle conditions. :idunno:

smiller
03-15-2017, 10:14 PM
I wonder why '220V generators' are prohibited? How would the engine know what kind of device is creating the load?

mikeme
03-15-2017, 10:32 PM
my guess is that they would be worried about something like this

http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm

the issue, I might think, is variation in load.

with a second alternator and a battery in the system, the shock of load/no load would not be as great.


an AC generator would not have this, and would go load to no load in the snap of a switch.

it also looks like this would not have a clutched pulley, so that there would be added rotational inertia to mess up the loads as the engine slows down.

avanti
03-15-2017, 10:42 PM
Another possibility is that they are talking about an old-school AC generator in which frequency is dependent on RPM. Perhaps they are saying that the RPM isn't held tightly enough for such an application. The "220V" part may just be Euro-think.

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 10:44 PM
Another reasonable and logical pos would be that high idle reduces harmful effects of extended (normal)idling while not necessarily eliminating them. I don't understand the conclusion that the mere existence of a high idle function is somehow carte blanche to (normal)idle the engine all day.vt

And if normal idling hasn't been proven to be detrimental and/or MB doesn't prohibit it, why is there a high idle function at all?

.
Tx

I'm not trying to be snarky Smiller but I can be pjniersnickety about the use of terms differentiating normal low and high idle. It maybe possible that high idle may be a beneficial countermeasure to detriments related to normal idling like bumper-to-bumper traffic? In addition to a high idle option m,I'd like to have a real-time, onboard LED graphical display of the Exhaust Gas After Treatment System Temperature Profile.

Aqua Puttana
03-15-2017, 10:53 PM
I wonder why '220V generators' are prohibited? How would the engine know what kind of device is creating the load?
:idunno:

I guess that my only real input would be that it is Euro speak so the same would apply to 120 volt AC generators.

That might not apply to a DC generator with an inverter used to supply the AC.

vic

Added:
I missed this previous comment.
... The "220V" part may just be Euro-think.

Bobnoxious
03-15-2017, 10:53 PM
I wonder why '220V generators' are prohibited? How would the engine know what kind of device is creating the load?

Maybe too much load to operate 220?

smiller
03-16-2017, 12:31 AM
Typical of many statements in an owner's manual in that you get to guess what it really means... if anything.

Aqua Puttana
03-16-2017, 02:34 AM
Mercedes suggests limiting idling intervals as relates to bio diesel.




Warranty Guidelines for Biodiesel Usage


Diesel fuel with up to B5 biodiesel content according to ULSD specification ASTM D975 meets Mercedes-Benz approved fuel standards and will not void coverage under the Mercedes-Benz New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

Diesel fuels between B6 and B20 or higher pose risks of engine and fuel system damage, and are not approved by Mercedes-Benz. Please refer to the following recommendations to help avoid engine and fuel system damage if you do not have the chance to refuel your vehicle continuously with ULSD, maximum B5:

• Fill up with ULSD (B5 or less) whenever possible, from a name brand fuel station.
• Regularly monitor your engine oil level if you have no choice but to use B20 fuel.
• Strictly follow the oil change intervals quoted in the instrument cluster and within your maintenance booklet, and use ONLY engine oils and filters approved by Mercedes-Benz for use in the vehicle.
• If you do not plan to drive your vehicle for several weeks, fill your vehicle’s fuel tank completely in
advance with ULSD fuel.
• Limit engine idling time to five minutes or as mandated by local ordinance.

Fuel with biodiesel content greater than 20%, including B100, is not approved by Mercedes-Benz due to the risk of severe engine damage. Any damage caused by the use of such non-approved fuels will not be covered by the Mercedes-Benz New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

Please refer to your vehicle’s Maintenance Booklet for maintenance schedules and requirements.

Note the reference to limiting idling.

https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf

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