PDA

View Full Version : My 2010 is now dead.


flman
03-08-2017, 08:44 PM
The engine is totally seized and I can not turn it either direction with a 3' wrench on the crank shaft. I don't think there is any more life support left for it, and I may have to start looking for another new van. :bash:

smiller
03-08-2017, 08:58 PM
Sucks. What led up to that?

flman
03-08-2017, 09:09 PM
Have no clue, pulled out of the driveway, power started dropping with the accelerator down, let go of the accelerator it died, went to start it and the dash went dead, got the other van jumped it, got it running, got it moving, it died again, towed it back to the shop on a chain, starter will not crank it over? Engine is totally locked in both directions.

Oil and antifreeze are both at normal level, so I doubt it is any sort of hydro lock. But I am not about to dump over $10,000.00 into a van that has been the most unreliable vehicle I ever owned.

Sprinter SS
03-08-2017, 09:16 PM
did it not make any major clack or bang? You would think if it was going to have a major mechanical seizure it would identify itself with a mechanical clue?

Bobnoxious
03-08-2017, 09:32 PM
Sorry to hear the bad news.

sunnyside
03-08-2017, 09:32 PM
Flman, how many miles does your van have on it? Could you also give a quick summary of the repairs you have made during your ownership of the van? Thanks

flman
03-08-2017, 09:48 PM
It sounded a little more rattley when I got it started on the Jump start. It only has 54K on it, just lots of emissions problems, glow plugs, and regular maintenance.

I am kind of puzzled that it even started on the jump start at all, then just totally locked up?

showkey
03-08-2017, 10:05 PM
Just a guess.......rattles and locked up.......cam chain failure ??? Especially it might have jump time to start and that allows piston to lock on the open valves on restart . Again Just a guess from a distance.

flman
03-08-2017, 10:22 PM
Just a guess.......rattles and locked up.......cam chain failure ??? Especially it might have jump time to start and that allows piston to lock on the open valves on restart . Again Just a guess from a distance.

I was thinking it could be a valve in the piston as well, lots of thoughts?

Looks like I am not the only one, but at such low mileage? Not a very good track record, but I guess modern stuff is garbage?

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39550&highlight=seized+engine&page=2

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39344&highlight=seized+engine

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37808&highlight=seized+engine

smiller
03-08-2017, 10:42 PM
While you can find problems with virtually any vehicle if you look for them (the space shuttle failed twice) from what I've read sudden, low-mileage internal engine problems (vs. external issues such as emissions controls) are rather rare on the OM642, or on most any modern engine in fact, so there had to be a reason. Just for curiosity's sake I'm hoping you will be able to find out what it is before the vehicle leaves your life.

.

showkey
03-08-2017, 11:23 PM
I totally get the dilemma.........I would be tempted to walk away and cut my losses.

Sometimes taking a deep breath and walk away for a couple of days helps making the decision easier on the what makes sense to do next.

It's really hard to walk away and junk a relatively expensive vehicle but equally hard to invest another $5000-$10000 in a problem vehicle. If you did decide to do some repair or disassemble investigation would you going the dealer route or DIY ?

I guess I would look into low mileage crashed vehicle for an engine. I am pretty sure rebuilding the existing engine is not reasonable but only can be determined with some disassembly.

Good luck.

Old Crows
03-09-2017, 12:40 AM
Mal chance!!! So sorry to hear this. So weird. Bummer! I'd be interested in the coroner's report if done.

Geriakt
03-09-2017, 01:14 AM
Sorry for your loss. This just sucks for a low mileage van. And when we talk about this MB low viscosity oil everyone says not to worry. MB would not make me put crap oil in my engine just to pass emissions and let my engine die after the warranty ticks to 100,001 miles.
I hope you can provide a post mortem.

Sprinter SS
03-09-2017, 02:00 AM
My other idea on this is timing chain as well. The timing chain tensioner is hydraulic, it is pressurized by oil pressure. There is a check valve that keeps the oil from bleeding back but it takes a sec to build complete pressure anyway. On my wifes GL350 it started getting rattly at startup (excessive clatter) at about 30k, by 54k the timing chain needed replacement and the timing chain tensioner had over stretched its limits due to timing chain stretch which was about 13mm over the whole chain. There has been alot of the 2010-2012 OM642 timing chain failures on the suv/car applications, for some reason not so many on the Sprinters. But after going through the whole deal with the wifes car it is really easy to see how if the chain stretches the drivers side bank of pistons will hit the valves. Here is a link to a guy with just that scenario,

https://mbworld.org/forums/gl-class-x166/649100-gl-350-service-visit-going-down-path-new-motor.html

This one had 77k on it. Timing chain had been replaced, improperly timed and with minimal stretch valves hit pistons. I bet valves are jammed on your pistons, Pulling passenger side valve cover, pulling timing chain tensioner (above alternator) would be the first place to check i think anyway.

Bobnoxious
03-09-2017, 03:58 AM
My condolences Bob. At minimum do a post mortum, I know you have the skills. Time maybe an issue? It may not be as bad as seems. If it's a daily worker may be best to cut your Loss.

lindenengineering
03-09-2017, 04:26 AM
Why bother?
Simply buy an exchange engine from MB @ $10500.
Totally drop in, plug 'n play and back on the road in 12 hours!
Dennis

Bobnoxious
03-09-2017, 04:33 AM
57,000 miles, my gosh!

icarus
03-09-2017, 04:40 AM
Maybe the GDE tuning over stressed the engine?

Icarus

smiller
03-09-2017, 05:12 AM
Maybe the GDE tuning over stressed the engine?
No GDE products are available for a 2010.

CJPJ
03-09-2017, 06:06 AM
Two ^ with heads and necks more or less bare of feathers, feeding on the carrion in anticipation of death. Together very much vested in every GDE post.
I thought they should have known that GDE doesn't have a tune for years 2010 and up.
I'm guessing their only insight capacity was passing on their thoughts and wasn't to gain a accurate understanding of the GDE tune.

:2cents:
ps: of O's above post, O deleted it.

OrioN
03-09-2017, 06:16 AM
Two ^ with heads and necks more or less bare of feathers, feeding on the carrion in anticipation of death. Together very much vested in every GDE post.
I thought they should have known that GDE doesn't have a tune for years 2010 and up.
I'm guessing their only insight capacity was passing on their thoughts and wasn't to gain a accurate understanding of GDE.

:2cents:

Ummmm... a carrion IS already dead, there cannot be any anticipation. :bash:

Nce try & thanks for your valuable input/contribution to the cause there Cheech. :dripsarcasm:








.

flman
03-09-2017, 10:29 AM
My other idea on this is timing chain as well. The timing chain tensioner is hydraulic, it is pressurized by oil pressure. There is a check valve that keeps the oil from bleeding back but it takes a sec to build complete pressure anyway. On my wifes GL350 it started getting rattly at startup (excessive clatter) at about 30k, by 54k the timing chain needed replacement and the timing chain tensioner had over stretched its limits due to timing chain stretch which was about 13mm over the whole chain. There has been alot of the 2010-2012 OM642 timing chain failures on the suv/car applications, for some reason not so many on the Sprinters. But after going through the whole deal with the wifes car it is really easy to see how if the chain stretches the drivers side bank of pistons will hit the valves. Here is a link to a guy with just that scenario,

https://mbworld.org/forums/gl-class-x166/649100-gl-350-service-visit-going-down-path-new-motor.html

This one had 77k on it. Timing chain had been replaced, improperly timed and with minimal stretch valves hit pistons. I bet valves are jammed on your pistons, Pulling passenger side valve cover, pulling timing chain tensioner (above alternator) would be the first place to check i think anyway.

That is definitely a thought I had as well, that the valve could be jammed up against a piston, but would it not allow the engine to turn in either direction? Any ways, it is my van, so I could buy another and decide later weather it is worth an overhaul, it has no trade in value at this point any ways.

Anyways I may have heard more like what Linden described in another dead 3.0 thread, the sound of gremlins hammering lightly in the lower end. This engine is so quiet it even dies quietly.

flman
03-09-2017, 10:40 AM
Why bother?
Simply buy an exchange engine from MB @ $10500.
Totally drop in, plug 'n play and back on the road in 12 hours!
Dennis

It is not like it has been a reliable van, I was not looking forward to all the future cost of ownership that goes with these vans either. I cant see throwing more good money at bad. I will be checking for metal in the pan to determine to what extent the engine has failed?

Aqua Puttana
03-09-2017, 11:22 AM
Sorry to hear.

It is not like it has been a reliable van, I was not looking forward to all the future cost of ownership that goes with these vans either. I cant see throwing more good money at bad. I will be checking for metal in the pan to determine to what extent the engine has failed?
You did have your problems.

There's always another T1N out there somewhere. That said, many NCV3's are giving good service with minimal problems.

Good luck.
vic

timoat
03-09-2017, 12:24 PM
Arent cam chains near impossible to break? Is the cam chain the same as timing chain? (Swede here) Here its known as a "cylinder salad" if the cam belt breaks while the engine is running. Some engines can handle it, others cant. My old Opel Corsa 88 had the timing belt snap, but luckily the engine could take it, and I was out the shop with only 200 dollars worth of damage.

flman
03-09-2017, 12:55 PM
Pulled the front oil pan and this is what I found, copper chunks of bearing material, (near a #2 Phillips for scale size.)

Also lots of other shiny filings, and I don't mean the small the ones that look like hair on a magnet.



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19672761/IMG_20170309_083112.jpg for scale.

Old Crows
03-09-2017, 01:05 PM
That's ooouuggly!

:cry::yell::eek:

Something has gone terribly wrong.....

lindenengineering
03-09-2017, 01:06 PM
I would state that the crank is more likely locked up!
With most other components like a seized piston or even a busted timing chain there would be a few degrees of movement in either direction.

You might be able to see to a limited extend (the engine interior) by dropping the sump section of the pan insitu, but the windage tray obscures most of the guts of the engine!

In most circumstances a seized crank means a wrecked block tunnel.
Few parts are available for a good traditional type engine overhaul, and I always recommend an MB factory re-man unit as the best remedy for this type of failure!

This engine really is a Woolworth's diesel like many in production nowadays. Limited parts and reliable expectations of future re-buildable longevity are suspect due to the lack of U/S & O/S sized service parts in the market place!

These factors alone limit those old fashioned activities like doing the T1N engines! .
All the best
Dennis
Mechanic

K-9 SPRINTER
03-09-2017, 02:29 PM
Maybe the GDE tuning over stressed the engine?

Icarus

No GDE products are available for a 2010.

next he will blame the Russians, they hacked the vans computer :lol::lol:

flman
03-09-2017, 02:37 PM
Maybe the GDE tuning over stressed the engine?

Icarus

Maybe more like a service bulletin that says these engine are known to starve bearing #1 and trash the engine. So yours is a ticking time bomb, unless my none GDE tune can actually starve that bearing and the non tuned ones cant. :lol:

flman
03-09-2017, 02:42 PM
I would state that the crank is more likely locked up!
With most other components like a seized piston or even a busted timing chain there would be a few degrees of movement in either direction.

You might be able to see to a limited extend (the engine interior) by dropping the sump section of the pan insitu, but the windage tray obscures most of the guts of the engine!

In most circumstances a seized crank means a wrecked block tunnel.
Few parts are available for a good traditional type engine overhaul, and I always recommend an MB factory re-man unit as the best remedy for this type of failure!

This engine really is a Woolworth's diesel like many in production nowadays. Limited parts and reliable expectations of future re-buildable longevity are suspect due to the lack of U/S & O/S sized service parts in the market place!

These factors alone limit those old fashioned activities like doing the T1N engines! .
All the best
Dennis
Mechanic

Right, I talked with my MB dealer mechanic, and he says there was a bulletin where #1 bearing would get starved for oil and trash the engine, and they replaced quite a few of these 3.0 engines just because of that. I think I will park it, buy another van, and wait for a donor engine to come out of a wreck that was known to be good, and put it back together later in my spare time.

I was reading one of your posts where you had an entire fleet of 3.0 vans in the bone yard with trashed engines just the same. :popcorn:

Geriakt
03-09-2017, 03:01 PM
Pulled the front oil pan and this is what I found, copper chunks of bearing material, (near a #2 Phillips for scale size.)

Also lots of other shiny filings, and I don't mean the small the ones that look like hair on a magnet.



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19672761/IMG_20170309_083112.jpg for scale.

Can you offer up the brand type and viscosity oil you were using and your oil change interval? Any sludge in oil pan? I still think 10w40 CK-4 is the way to go.

CJPJ
03-09-2017, 03:26 PM
Wreck donor example: damage looks to be from a tree falling on it. Engine $7000, I'm not sure if 2015 fits yours.
https://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/6035594742.html

:2cents: guess: $1000 to ship ..

lindenengineering
03-09-2017, 04:08 PM
Right, I talked with my MB dealer mechanic, and he says there was a bulletin where #1 bearing would get starved for oil and trash the engine, and they replaced quite a few of these 3.0 engines just because of that. I think I will park it, buy another van, and wait for a donor engine to come out of a wreck that was known to be good, and put it back together later in my spare time.

I was reading one of your posts where you had an entire fleet of 3.0 vans in the bone yard with trashed engines just the same. :popcorn:


Yes it bankrupted the company!
They had no problems with the old T1N fleet but these 906's did 'em in!

In fact I have just picked up a nice 3500 906 Box Truck, its been sitting for 5 years in a transport warehouse.
The owner couldn't give it away because it wouldn't start !!
A set of glows and it runs real well!
I am going to fully service it & flog it cheap~!
Anyone want a nice clean 3500 dually box truck for work or toy transport??:lol:
Dennis
The Hoss trader!

Rob S
03-09-2017, 04:41 PM
Any particular year/model of 906 that is most susceptible to this bearing failure?

Bobnoxious
03-09-2017, 05:19 PM
Why bother?
Simply buy an exchange engine from MB @ $10500.
Totally drop in, plug 'n play and back on the road in 12 hours!
Dennis

Curiosity I suppose? 10 + grand is heap of Benjamin's to put in a seven-year-old vehicle with no guarantees there won't be future issues considering the minutia that can go wrong with these complex vehicles.

Everyone's circumstances very. If the van is being used for business on a daily basis it might be better to junk it, etc and buy a new vehicle. I may be wrong but I think there might be a tax benefit to leasing a vehicle versus purchase?. The difference being a purchase is considered an asset and lease, a liability. I don't know, my information may be outdated and obsolete.

If I were confronted with similar circumstances, I would be inclined to purchase a new vehicle only because I don't want the frustration and inconvenience of future, unexpected breakdowns. Especially if the vehicle is loaded with tools and breaks-down in a shady area.

nctrailseeker
03-09-2017, 05:31 PM
[/B]

Yes it bankrupted the company!
They had no problems with the old T1N fleet but these 906's did 'em in!

In fact I have just picked up a nice 3500 906 Box Truck, its been sitting for 5 years in a transport warehouse.
The owner couldn't give it away because it wouldn't start !!
A set of glows and it runs real well!
I am going to fully service it & flog it cheap~!
Anyone want a nice clean 3500 dually box truck for work or toy transport??:lol:
Dennis
The Hoss trader!


So you're saying a couple bad glow plugs could actually cause a no start issue completely? Even if the ambient temp is not that low?

smiller
03-09-2017, 05:48 PM
Any particular year/model of 906 that is most susceptible to this bearing failure?
Yours! Mine! Everyone who has a V6 has a ticking time bomb! :smilewink:

Old Crows
03-09-2017, 05:53 PM
Yours! Mine! Everyone who has a V6 has a ticking time bomb! :smilewink:

Hummm.... so that's that 'tic-tic-tic' you hear when shutting down? :tongue::lol::laughing::clapping::bounce:
:wtf::crazy::bow::bow::bow::popcorn::popcorn:

OrioN
03-09-2017, 06:09 PM
Yours! Mine! Everyone who has a V6 has a ticking time bomb! :smilewink:

83773




:snore:







.

lindenengineering
03-09-2017, 06:38 PM
83773




:snore:



.


Yes blue skies and its all beer and skittles with something that didn't make ME Snooze.:thumbup:
I opened up the back of the box truck busting off the pad lock!
An Aladdin's cave no less !!!
Full of brand new tyres and a big cache of 906 Sprinter parts plus some hand tools and other goodies like cleaners, oils etc !
Better than a barn find!
Dennis

OrioN
03-09-2017, 06:49 PM
Yes blue skies and its all beer and skittles with something that didn't make ME Snooze.:thumbup:
I opened up the back of the box truck busting off the pad lock!
An Aladdin's cave no less !!!
Full of brand new tyres and a big cache of 906 Sprinter parts plus some hand tools and other goodies like cleaners, oils etc !
Better than a barn find!
Dennis

When I read 'fleet', I think ritual abuse, and not by the hands of MB or affiliates but by self-professed 'pro's' with less brains than cash....










.

timoat
03-09-2017, 06:56 PM
Curiosity I suppose? 10 + grand is heap of Benjamin's to put in a seven-year-old vehicle with no guarantees there won't be future issues considering the minutia that can go wrong with these complex vehicles.

Everyone's circumstances very. If the van is being used for business on a daily basis it might be better to junk it, etc and buy a new vehicle. I may be wrong but I think there might be a tax benefit to leasing a vehicle versus purchase?. The difference being a purchase is considered an asset and lease, a liability. I don't know, my information may be outdated and obsolete.

If I were confronted with similar circumstances, I would be inclined to purchase a new vehicle only because I don't want the frustration and inconvenience of future, unexpected breakdowns. Especially if the vehicle is loaded with tools and breaks-down in a shady area.

pretty sure he was being facetious...

flman
03-09-2017, 10:22 PM
[/B]

Yes it bankrupted the company!


Wow, that is what I would call putting all of your eggs in one basket.

Any particular year/model of 906 that is most susceptible to this bearing failure?

In one of Lindens other grenaded 3.0 posts, I thought he said the 2010 was the bad one?

flman
03-09-2017, 10:26 PM
Curiosity I suppose? 10 + grand is heap of Benjamin's to put in a seven-year-old vehicle with no guarantees there won't be future issues considering the minutia that can go wrong with these complex vehicles.

Everyone's circumstances very. If the van is being used for business on a daily basis it might be better to junk it, etc and buy a new vehicle. I may be wrong but I think there might be a tax benefit to leasing a vehicle versus purchase?. The difference being a purchase is considered an asset and lease, a liability. I don't know, my information may be outdated and obsolete.

If I were confronted with similar circumstances, I would be inclined to purchase a new vehicle only because I don't want the frustration and inconvenience of future, unexpected breakdowns. Especially if the vehicle is loaded with tools and breaks-down in a shady area.

Well, I signed the lease for a long tall Transit today, but who knows I might fix the MB after I get over the disgust of the engine failure. It is in really good shape, and minimal rust on it for a salt belt vehicle. Maybe find a 4 banger Cummins for a replacement?

So if it is only Main bearing #1 those parts cant be obtained, and what about the poor lubing of that bearing, any sort of way to circumvent this? :popcorn:

autostaretx
03-09-2017, 10:37 PM
...and what about the poor lubing of that bearing, any sort of way to circumvent this? :popcorn:

83785

(a.k.a. poly-isobutylene...)

--dick :popcorn:

flman
03-09-2017, 10:40 PM
83785

(a.k.a. poly-isobutylene...)

--dick :popcorn:
Stay Together Please! :bow:

sprintguy
03-09-2017, 10:52 PM
So far to date, I have only seen a handful of Sprinters locked up , mostly Fed EX fleets , 2010 and 2011's . Just so its clear, from 2010-2012 and some (small amount) of 2013's the 642 engine was a 642.898 in early to mid production the engine received more changes thus fixing some issues over others, but the engine number and functionality changed from 642.898 to 642.896 and the new controllers went in 2010-2012 had CDI6 (CR6NFZ) then from that line in 2013 to present CDI60 (CR60NFZ) so 2015 engines will not work with 2010 engines.
Now every engine that I pulled apart had coolant in the oil , a very small amount , but coolant none the less. You could see the small droplets beeding up in the oil . 1 engine just decided to puke out all the oil in about a second from the oil cooler. If it was a timing chain issue that caused it , it would have rattled on start up for quite a long time before self destructing.
Just so good ole' Sprinter does not get a bad name... I have many customers that have over 180kmiles up to 550k miles with the same 642.898 in them that they were born with. Still running and working. I personally think the 642 engine line is eons better and far more superior than anything that a Ford, Chevy or Dodge (RAM) has ever thought of building. Well I like the Cummins engines as well ... but that's a real diesel engine ... not a Hemi. :bounce:

FORD found on road dead
found on Russian dump
Fix or repair daily
Flip over read directions

Give that Transit some time and she will break worse than the Sprinter... Just you will be able to have more , poorly paid pissed off technicians working on it at your convenience.
or maybe inconvenience
Just a note: Every vehicle built now a days is designed to fail and be recycled
That's why I can afford to eat and have a family.

Good luck flman . I wish you better luck with your Ford... I hope you got a good one.

Carl

flman
03-09-2017, 10:53 PM
Sorry to hear.


You did have your problems.

There's always another T1N out there somewhere. That said, many NCV3's are giving good service with minimal problems.

Good luck.
vic

Getting another old T1N van and going through all the hassle of fixing all the bugs, replacing all the fluids etc. is not for me, never again, I will just lease new disposable vans.

sprintguy
03-09-2017, 11:03 PM
By the way
The only bulletins I have seen and heard of about bearings in the 642 engines have been in the car line (which is a different 642 all together) and 642's spinning bearings after a oil cooler replacement (takes about 1000 miles to happen) due to poorly paid pissed off technicians not being clean enough and rushing to make or beat the Flat rate time.

In that case you all should right to congress and the president about how the manufactures are screwing you by making the techs rush through repairs while the dealer gets rich off there hard work , then offer you coffee and crumpets while you miss out on jobs, just to save a buck and point fingers.

I say .... DOWN WITH FLAT RATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have watched as this pay system turned honest great techs into crooked techs that don't give a crap about your vehicle. I blame the Dealers for that system still being around. MB still is one of the few that actually will pay for a proper diagnosis... American manufactures will find a way to screw a tech every time.

Carl
Rant concluded

lindenengineering
03-09-2017, 11:05 PM
Well, I signed the lease for a long tall Transit today, but who knows I might fix the MB after I get over the disgust of the engine failure. It is in really good shape, and minimal rust on it for a salt belt vehicle. Maybe find a 4 banger Cummins for a replacement?

So if it is only Main bearing #1 those parts cant be obtained, and what about the poor lubing of that bearing, any sort of way to circumvent this? :popcorn:
No But!

In short #1 chain oiler extension tube (looks like a mini flute) is plugged into a hole in the block oil gallery. Held in place by a round wire snap ring & register in the block it blows out!
Then oil pressure is lost at that bearing location ! Seizure results!
For me its a bit of a whacko idea!
Better to follow the general automobile chain lube practice by take off from the camshaft oiling system.
Works just as well in stuff like Lincolns & Ford cop cars!
Dennis

Bobnoxious
03-09-2017, 11:38 PM
83785

(a.k.a. poly-isobutylene...)

--dick :popcorn:

Used it, great stuff, effective!

Bobnoxious
03-09-2017, 11:43 PM
Well, I signed the lease for a long tall Transit today, but who knows I might fix the MB after I get over the disgust of the engine failure. It is in really good shape, and minimal rust on it for a salt belt vehicle. Maybe find a 4 banger Cummins for a replacement?

So if it is only Main bearing #1 those parts cant be obtained, and what about the poor lubing of that bearing, any sort of way to circumvent this? :popcorn:

Transit, I am not mad at you! I was wondering the same thing about a Cummings engine? What are the NY state and federal regs? I'm not sure if California would allow an engine change to a Cummings? Since it's a visual only inspection and has all its emission components, I don't see why not?

Bobnoxious
03-09-2017, 11:55 PM
So if it is only Main bearing #1 those parts cant be obtained, and what about the poor lubing of that bearing, any sort of way to circumvent this? :popcorn:

Higher volume oil pump, ream passages? :thinking::idunno:

Bobnoxious
03-09-2017, 11:57 PM
By the way
The only bulletins I have seen and heard of about bearings in the 642 engines have been in the car line (which is a different 642 all together) and 642's spinning bearings after a oil cooler replacement (takes about 1000 miles to happen) due to poorly paid pissed off technicians not being clean enough and rushing to make or beat the Flat rate time.

In that case you all should right to congress and the president about how the manufactures are screwing you by making the techs rush through repairs while the dealer gets rich off there hard work , then offer you coffee and crumpets while you miss out on jobs, just to save a buck and point fingers.

I say .... DOWN WITH FLAT RATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have watched as this pay system turned honest great techs into crooked techs that don't give a crap about your vehicle. I blame the Dealers for that system still being around. MB still is one of the few that actually will pay for a proper diagnosis... American manufactures will find a way to screw a tech every time.

Carl
Rant concluded

Gosh, I admire your brand loyalty
Carl!

Aqua Puttana
03-10-2017, 12:23 AM
Getting another old T1N van and going through all the hassle of fixing all the bugs, replacing all the fluids etc. is not for me, never again, I will just lease new disposable vans.
My 2006 is working so far for me, but I'm not using it for business.

Actually my 2004 is fine too, but I don't need two Sprinters!! I'm a hoarder. :bash:

Good luck with whatever you choose.

By the way
The only bulletins I have seen and heard of about bearings in the 642 engines have been in the car line (which is a different 642 all together) and 642's spinning bearings after a oil cooler replacement (takes about 1000 miles to happen) due to poorly paid pissed off technicians not being clean enough and rushing to make or beat the Flat rate time.

In that case you all should right to congress and the president about how the manufactures are screwing you by making the techs rush through repairs while the dealer gets rich off there hard work , then offer you coffee and crumpets while you miss out on jobs, just to save a buck and point fingers.

I say .... DOWN WITH FLAT RATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have watched as this pay system turned honest great techs into crooked techs that don't give a crap about your vehicle. I blame the Dealers for that system still being around. MB still is one of the few that actually will pay for a proper diagnosis... American manufactures will find a way to screw a tech every time.

Carl
Rant concluded
:thumbup:

I worked in a flat rate dealership. It creates some ugly situations.

:2cents: vic

Old Crows
03-10-2017, 12:26 AM
83785

(a.k.a. poly-isobutylene...)

--dick :popcorn:

Ahhhhh yesssssss! STP. Richard Petty. Andy Granetelli. Studebaker-Packard. Novi & STP-Paxton turbine Indy cars.....

OrioN
03-10-2017, 12:32 AM
Ahhhhh yesssssss! STP. Richard Petty. Andy Granetelli. Studebaker-Packard. Novi & STP-Paxton turbine Indy cars.....

And eggs don't stick to one's skillet. :thumbup:







.

Sprinter SS
03-10-2017, 12:34 AM
Gosh, I admire your brand loyalty
Carl!

I have 4 MBenz products and once you learn them and they way to work on them you start to see why they are special. If you buy an new MBenz and have issues they are one of the few manufacturers that see your brand loyalty, repeat buyers and will take that in consideration when you have a post warranty irregular issue. I have had it twice, where they ate the labor and i paid parts well after warranty expired.

One thing is for sure we all have a choice where to spend our cash on a van, if you like a Ford so be it but I enjoy my Sprinter every time i get behind the wheel.

OrioN
03-10-2017, 12:37 AM
I have 4 MBenz products and once you learn them and they way to work on them you start to see why they are special. If you buy an new MBenz and have issues they are one of the few manufacturers that see your brand loyalty, repeat buyers and will take that in consideration when you have a post warranty irregular issue. I have had it twice, where they ate the labor and i paid labor well after warranty expired.

One thing is for sure we all have a choice where to spend our cash on a van, if you like a Ford so be it but I enjoy my Sprinter every time i get behind the wheel.

Next month, 9 years, 160K, $200 total cost for repairs (battery cable), dealer only serviced. :bow:






.

Aqua Puttana
03-10-2017, 01:30 AM
... dealer only serviced. :bow:


What did that cost? Did they do anything over and above the services outlined by the manufacturer?

To me that would pertinent information.

:cheers: vic

sunnyside
03-10-2017, 01:49 AM
Next month, 9 years, 160K, $200 total cost for repairs (battery cable), dealer only serviced. :bow:






.





That would be a pre SCR system, you don't qualify with only 160k to brag and boast about your meticulous over paid dealer service and your small 200.00 pittance for a cable.

I would suggest you start dumping 2 gallons of def fluid on top of the engine every 10k miles and report back after about a 100k more, just for fun. I know you like a challenge. :thumbup:

.[/QUOTE]

icarus
03-10-2017, 01:50 AM
FL, Good luck with your Transit (no snark)!

You might like this:

http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com

Icarus

OrioN
03-10-2017, 02:11 AM
That would be a pre SCR system, you don't qualify with only 160k to brag and boast about your meticulous over paid dealer service and your small 200.00 pittance for a cable.

I would suggest you start dumping 2 gallons of def fluid on top of the engine every 10k miles and report back after about a 100k more, just for fun. I know you like a challenge. :thumbup:

.[/QUOTE]

You sir are a goof, if you perceived me as braggart, and if you think your assumption that a challenge is relevant. :thumbdown:

I just related factual data and of my own experience, and my gratification for my fortunes. Jeez, you don't even know what my dealer fees were, to make any statement of that sort.... :crazy:







.

Bobnoxious
03-10-2017, 02:16 AM
I have 4 MBenz products and once you learn them and they way to work on them you start to see why they are special. If you buy an new MBenz and have issues they are one of the few manufacturers that see your brand loyalty, repeat buyers and will take that in consideration when you have a post warranty irregular issue. I have had it twice, where they ate the labor and i paid parts well after warranty expired.

One thing is for sure we all have a choice where to spend our cash on a van, if you like a Ford so be it but I enjoy my Sprinter every time i get behind the wheel.

I guess I'll see. Only 13,000 miles and continuously pinched hands opening doors.

sunnyside
03-10-2017, 02:16 AM
Stamping out ignorance, and moronic behavior since the dawn of Man. Just having a little fun mr OrioN

Bobnoxious
03-10-2017, 02:23 AM
83785

(a.k.a. poly-isobutylene...)

--dick :popcorn:


This works too! Worked great on a Pinto.

OrioN
03-10-2017, 02:26 AM
What did that cost? Did they do anything over and above the services outlined by the manufacturer?

To me that would pertinent information.

:cheers: vic

Dealer services were scheduled A's and B's, and included all the items of oil, oil filter, fuel filter, brake fluid flush, tranny oil, air filters & a serpentine belt on the last one. Nothing more.

I shop dealer pricing.... so the fee's were/are respectable and on the lower scale of the range that dealers have quoted or I've read posted here. Warner Freightliner SLC has done 2 and they were the lowest by far. Schumacher Phoenix has been mid scale, MB Vancouver & MB Nanaimo are also mid scale. The latter 3 understand that these are 'commercial vans' and not 'prestige', I've had quotes that were just capitalistic to be polite.





.

Aqua Puttana
03-10-2017, 02:41 AM
Dealer services were scheduled A's and B's, and included all the items of oil, oil filter, fuel filter, brake fluid flush, and tranny oil, air filters & a serpentine belt the last one. Nothing more.

I shop dealer pricing.... so the fee's were/are respectable and on the lower scale of the range that dealers have quoted or I've read posted here. Warner Freightliner SLC has done 2 and they were the lowest by far. Schumacher Phoenix has been mid scale, MB Vancouver & MB Nanaimo are also mid scale. The latter 3 understand that these are 'commercial vans' and not 'prestige', I've had quotes that were just capitalistic to be polite.

.
So, for the record, your Sprinter has had the same services that anyone could have done at any competent independent shop or even DIY.

That is good to know. :thumbup:

Thanks.

vic

OrioN
03-10-2017, 02:44 AM
I guess I'll see. Only 13,000 miles and continuously pinched hands opening doors.

Have you considered lowering your sodium intake? :bounce:





.

OrioN
03-10-2017, 02:45 AM
So, for the record, your Sprinter has had the same services that anyone could have done at any competent independent shop or even DIY.

That is good to know. :thumbup:

Thanks.

vic

Correct, with the emphasis on competent.






.

lindenengineering
03-10-2017, 02:58 AM
By the way
The only bulletins I have seen and heard of about bearings in the 642 engines have been in the car line (which is a different 642 all together) and 642's spinning bearings after a oil cooler replacement (takes about 1000 miles to happen) due to poorly paid pissed off technicians not being clean enough and rushing to make or beat the Flat rate time.

In that case you all should right to congress and the president about how the manufactures are screwing you by making the techs rush through repairs while the dealer gets rich off there hard work , then offer you coffee and crumpets while you miss out on jobs, just to save a buck and point fingers.

I say .... DOWN WITH FLAT RATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have watched as this pay system turned honest great techs into crooked techs that don't give a crap about your vehicle. I blame the Dealers for that system still being around. MB still is one of the few that actually will pay for a proper diagnosis... American manufactures will find a way to screw a tech every time.

Carl
Rant concluded

Carl
I do not operate flat rate in my shop for the very reasons you have posted.
I do ask my guys to adhere to the shop times posted on Mitchel Shop Key which for the most part are fair.
I want people to do their best and not rip through a job and have a comeback!
Comebacks are for me are an avoidable cost overhead, which I have costed out at about 1.75 hours MINIMUM of lost production & productivity.
I still make money for the shop/business yet give everyone 15 days paid vacation and that includes Christmas (& Boxing Day!!!) & New Years off with pay.

If any of you guys are interested in the banter of discontent amongst us Professional Techs and Pro master Mechanics then go to www.flatratetech.com.

By the way it was Ford that did the "dirty" on a lot of loyal Ford Techs by studying the Ford's Tech historical repair methods and how each good producer was costing them money! Then they dropped the warranty and repair times by about 50%. That's how the the manufacturers like Ford and their dealer chains limit their cost overheards and make lots of money at everyone's expense and especially the Techs on the floor!
AND If you think Ford is bad take a look at Honda America sometime!

By the way folks good Mechanics and Techs who are creative are hard to find these days!
They are my most valued part of the business where I encourage an Esperite de Corps!
This damn flat rate stuff is a peculiar aspect of American auto repair methods. I have got flack from Management Consultants on this very fact! BUT
I DO NOT operate flat rate in our business.
Dennis
Shop Owner

flman
03-10-2017, 10:01 AM
Can you offer up the brand type and viscosity oil you were using and your oil change interval? Any sludge in oil pan? I still think 10w40 CK-4 is the way to go.

I used Pentosin, the grade and weight recommended per the owners manual. The best oil in the world would not have saved this engine.

So far to date, I have only seen a handful of Sprinters locked up , mostly Fed EX fleets , 2010 and 2011's . Just so its clear, from 2010-2012 and some (small amount) of 2013's the 642 engine was a 642.898 in early to mid production the engine received more changes thus fixing some issues over others, but the engine number and functionality changed from 642.898 to 642.896 and the new controllers went in 2010-2012 had CDI6 (CR6NFZ) then from that line in 2013 to present CDI60 (CR60NFZ) so 2015 engines will not work with 2010 engines.
Now every engine that I pulled apart had coolant in the oil , a very small amount , but coolant none the less. You could see the small droplets beeding up in the oil . 1 engine just decided to puke out all the oil in about a second from the oil cooler. If it was a timing chain issue that caused it , it would have rattled on start up for quite a long time before self destructing.
Just so good ole' Sprinter does not get a bad name... I have many customers that have over 180kmiles up to 550k miles with the same 642.898 in them that they were born with. Still running and working. I personally think the 642 engine line is eons better and far more superior than anything that a Ford, Chevy or Dodge (RAM) has ever thought of building. Well I like the Cummins engines as well ... but that's a real diesel engine ... not a Hemi. :bounce:

FORD found on road dead
found on Russian dump
Fix or repair daily
Flip over read directions

Give that Transit some time and she will break worse than the Sprinter... Just you will be able to have more , poorly paid pissed off technicians working on it at your convenience.
or maybe inconvenience
Just a note: Every vehicle built now a days is designed to fail and be recycled
That's why I can afford to eat and have a family.

Good luck flman . I wish you better luck with your Ford... I hope you got a good one.

Carl

Not saying the Transit is going to be the holy grail of vans, but at least a dealer is less than 10 minutes away, and I got a lease, so if it sucks by the end of the warranty I hand the dealer the keys, and lease another disposable Ford, Dodge, or Mercedes, all the same they all suck equally, I do not discriminate.

flman
03-10-2017, 10:04 AM
Transit, I am not mad at you! I was wondering the same thing about a Cummings engine? What are the NY state and federal regs? I'm not sure if California would allow an engine change to a Cummings? Since it's a visual only inspection and has all its emission components, I don't see why not?

NY is plug it into the computer for passenger vehicles only, trucks are safety inspection only, but if that changes I can sell it out of state to a lucky buyer. Wonder how feasible this is, a Cummins I4 mated to an Alison automatic? :thinking:

flman
03-10-2017, 10:07 AM
I worked in a flat rate dealership. It creates some ugly situations.

:2cents: vic

My best customers just tell me to install a new system or repair this and send a bill, they get the best of the best.

flman
03-10-2017, 10:09 AM
Next month, 9 years, 160K, $200 total cost for repairs (battery cable), dealer only serviced. :bow:






.

I hope you knocked on wood, because I never tell any one how "good" a vehicle is or was until I sell it. Yeah had better pray to Allah that your blessed streak continues.

That would be a pre SCR system, you don't qualify with only 160k to brag and boast about your meticulous over paid dealer service and your small 200.00 pittance for a cable.

I would suggest you start dumping 2 gallons of def fluid on top of the engine every 10k miles and report back after about a 100k more, just for fun. I know you like a challenge. :thumbup:

.

Every one tries to use a vehicle that is no longer in production for reliability comparison. :dripsarcasm:

flman
03-10-2017, 10:13 AM
FL, Good luck with your Transit (no snark)!

You might like this:

http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com

Icarus

So the super moderator is showing me the door? GFYS :laughing:

flman
03-10-2017, 10:15 AM
I guess I'll see. Only 13,000 miles and continuously pinched hands opening doors.

You must have saggy skin or something? :lol:

But at least we know it is not thin. :cheers:

K-9 SPRINTER
03-10-2017, 11:14 AM
FL, Good luck with your Transit (no snark)!

You might like this:

http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com

Icarus

So the super moderator is showing me the door? GFYS :laughing:

you could start a DZ there!!! :lol:

Old Crows
03-10-2017, 01:32 PM
Dennis, you are a good man! Caring for the troops is caring for the customer.

As one of my old Bosses said at a meeting of minions over a project that was continually mired in "mud"....

There is never enough time or money to do something right the first time....... There's ALWAYS time and money to Do Over!

Guys, I'm not happy......

flman
03-10-2017, 03:53 PM
you could start a DZ there!!! :lol:

Yeah, but it would never work out with out icarus, the leader of the DZ.

Bobnoxious
03-10-2017, 04:07 PM
Dennis, you are a good man! Caring for the troops is caring for the customer.

As one of my old Bosses said at a meeting of minions over a project that was continually mired in "mud"....

There is never enough time or money to do something right the first time....... There's ALWAYS time and money to Do Over!

Guys, I'm not happy......

I would tell all my supervisors, "The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after meeting the schedule."

flman
03-17-2017, 11:31 PM
What is the chance of putting in an engine from a 2007 with the 2007 ECU and it working out?

showkey
03-17-2017, 11:55 PM
What is the chance of putting in an engine from a 2007 with the 2007 ECU and it working out?


Just a guess.....but......with the complete engine harness and engine compartment harness , all the exhaust swapped it might work. The wildcard would be the body CAN will be looking for all the DEF stuff which could make it a nightmare. The dash cluster is going to be looking for ECU info that won't be there. Likely leading to error codes like no other ???? Suspect Linden could shed some light on the topic.

Bobnoxious
03-18-2017, 03:31 AM
How about taking CAN and associated componets from the donor? Maybe the instrument cluster could be coded in?

showkey
03-18-2017, 02:06 PM
How about taking CAN and associated componets from the donor? Maybe the instrument cluster could be coded in?

Any thing is possible ...but

Easier said than done...........the rest of the truck systems body modules will also be looking for the dash cluster. Think of the CAN as a circular track around the complete vehicle with 20-40 "stations" around the track. Each station reads all the messages or signals and picks the ones that are related to the particular "station". Any error on the tracks or stations can freak out the the system. Some stations are the exchanges between CAN sytems body vs engine vs safety ( SRS ) . Many times there are two CAN slow and fast on the same tracks or separate tracks.

This is just general conversation....I have not tried Sprinter 2007 to 2010 swap. Now a 2007 Srinter engine witha complete tune might solve many of these issue...but some here do not like tunes. Same with dropping an LS crate engine in a '69 pickup complete stand alone harness and ECU with no emissions is the common solution.

Graphite Dave
03-18-2017, 03:02 PM
I really like the new logic about building vehicles. Work very hard to maximize the MPG to save the environment but if something fails mechanically you throw the vehicle away and buy a new one. So much for saving the environment. What about all the damage to the environment disposing of the dead vehicle and building a new one?

The old way of just replacing the parts with similar or not so similar parts reused the vehicle.

flman
03-18-2017, 03:11 PM
Just a guess.....but......with the complete engine harness and engine compartment harness , all the exhaust swapped it might work. The wildcard would be the body CAN will be looking for all the DEF stuff which could make it a nightmare. The dash cluster is going to be looking for ECU info that won't be there. Likely leading to error codes like no other ???? Suspect Linden could shed some light on the topic.

Well, things could change if I add GDE to the equation, I will have an ECU he can actually access, and Keith is a lot more than a generic tuner, he can do custom tunes. Worse case it, I put the 2010 ECU back in and adapt the injectors to the new engine, and trade it for another Transit. :rad:

Maybe I can buy a 07-08 wreck, and have all I need to make the swap and adaptations? You never know, the 2010 might drive again, it is in mint condition, garaged so minimal on rust for a salt belt vehicle. But to just put it back to stock would be waste of time, because it was always a nightmare van.

lindenengineering
03-18-2017, 03:13 PM
You folks are desk top theorists!
In ancient times if you could put forward this "progressive thinking" the Lord of the Manor would see you as the main county "vocal yokel" and give you a cheap halberd! (wuzzn't made in China in them days )
Then made to lead and demonstrate your theories!

Then forcibly made with sword close to his tail feathers to lead a charge upon some rag bag fearsome marauders with broad axes and tin hats with horns; all coming in their 'undreds to town to rape and pillage !

All this time the professional Yeoman guard would look on from the high ground with their long bows saying Look at them silly buggers dah make I larf--It does! They ain't going to last five minutes yah know !:lol:

The cheapest most effective way is simply get a re-man or good take out (the right engine) for the job.
'Then its fixed!
Running and Making money (if its a commercial vehicle) !
Dennis
Oh and be ever thankful you didn't live in ancient times! Mah dears!

flman
03-18-2017, 03:14 PM
I really like the new logic about building vehicles. Work very hard to maximize the MPG to save the environment but if something fails mechanically you throw the vehicle away and buy a new one. So much for saving the environment. What about all the damage to the environment disposing of the dead vehicle and building a new one?

The old way of just replacing the parts with similar or not so similar parts reused the vehicle.

Right, how much emissions are emitted when you melt it down, and the paint, adhesives and traces of plastic go into the atmosphere, then their is all the fuel and emissions to melt everything down. The EPA is a joke, glad the POTUS is going to reduce them down to size. :cheers:

flman
03-18-2017, 03:16 PM
Right Dennis fixed for a week before it has its next costly hiccup. :dripsarcasm:

lindenengineering
03-18-2017, 03:19 PM
Right Dennis fixed for a week before it has its next costly hiccup. :dripsarcasm:

Well Ol" Mate
I doubt the bloody thing would roll down the block under its own steam with any success , put it that way! :laughing::thumbup:
Cheerz
Dennis

Aqua Puttana
03-18-2017, 03:32 PM
Not that you asked...

... because it was always a nightmare van.
Cut your losses and aggravation. Will you ever really trust that van?

Maybe find someone who has a similar NCV3 with body issues and sell yours to them.

The new Transit should be good for at least the warranty period.

:2cents: vic

Graphite Dave
03-18-2017, 03:36 PM
Not that you asked...


The new Transit should be good for at least the warranty period.



And if it needs a new engine the cost of the engine will not be $15,000.

lindenengineering
03-18-2017, 03:39 PM
I really like the new logic about building vehicles. Work very hard to maximize the MPG to save the environment but if something fails mechanically you throw the vehicle away and buy a new one. So much for saving the environment. What about all the damage to the environment disposing of the dead vehicle and building a new one?

The old way of just replacing the parts with similar or not so similar parts reused the vehicle.

Well you can see that in action!
Visit /work in Cuba like I did in the early 1970's.
Then glimpse of this stuff in the clip and enjoy the music
Dennis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JEdf7XsV5g&list=PL47423FF1E03177A8

smiller
03-18-2017, 03:45 PM
And if it needs a new engine the cost of the engine will not be $15,000.
How much is the cost of a brand new engine installed in a Transit?

Bobnoxious
03-18-2017, 04:51 PM
I really like the new logic about building vehicles. Work very hard to maximize the MPG to save the environment but if something fails mechanically you throw the vehicle away and buy a new one. So much for saving the environment. What about all the damage to the environment disposing of the dead vehicle and building a new one?

The old way of just replacing the parts with similar or not so similar parts reused the vehicle.

I have often pondered about the same issue Dave. I know many limited thinkers here will balk, However, would it be more efficient use of resources to design automobiles to last 20+ years, interchangeable components across make and year vehicles. And, as emissions controls and powerplant technology improves replace only the engine not the entire vehicle? Standardization and uniformity. Right to Repair.

Bob

Bobnoxious
03-18-2017, 05:02 PM
Well you can see that in action!
Visit /work in Cuba like I did in the early 1970's.
Then glimpse of this stuff in the clip and enjoy the music
Dennis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JEdf7XsV5g&list=PL47423FF1E03177A8

Havana will look like Miami in 10 years. Over developed! Watch the Communists
force land owners, many who's families have lived on the property for generations, to make room for humongous beachfront hotels and resorts so herds bleached white gringos and cotton tops can lounge around sipping Puerto Rican Rum or is it Cuban rum?

Graphite Dave
03-18-2017, 05:15 PM
How much is the cost of a brand new engine installed in a Transit?

New: $5,000
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-2016-FORD-3-5L-DOHC-TURBO-ECOBOOST-ENGINE-ASSEMB-DL3Z-6006-F-NEW-/302248256405?hash=item465f666395:g:ZKUAAOSwTM5YwtT a&vxp=mtr

Used: $2500

Sprinter diesel may last twice as long but cost 3 times as much to replace.

lindenengineering
03-18-2017, 05:17 PM
Oh yes I can see it going like Casco Viejo in Panama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3QiUjoyqDQ

OrioN
03-18-2017, 06:04 PM
New: $5,000
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-2016-FORD-3-5L-DOHC-TURBO-ECOBOOST-ENGINE-ASSEMB-DL3Z-6006-F-NEW-/302248256405?hash=item465f666395:g:ZKUAAOSwTM5YwtT a&vxp=mtr

Used: $2500

Sprinter diesel may last twice as long but cost 3 times as much to replace.
Nice try....



Now try quoting a complete engine package and one that will actually work in late model transit.

And.... just for an acurate comparison make it a diesel too.

Lastly, not sure where you priced a Sprinter engine from but I believe it's closer to $11k.





.

Graphite Dave
03-18-2017, 06:40 PM
Nice try....



Now try quoting a complete engine package and one that will actually work in late model transit.

And.... just for an acurate comparison make it a diesel too.

Lastly, not sure where you priced a Sprinter engine from but I believe it's closer to $11k.

.

Why wouldn't you use the existing bolt on parts?

I suspect a Ford diesel engine would also be very expensive. Did not price that since we were talking about a Sprinter diesel compared to a gas Transit. Also suspect the 3.7 non-turbo Ford engine would be less expensive than the Ecoboost turbo.

Did not price the Sprinter engine. Price was from memory of what someone else posted (probably for the V6). Is the $11,000 for the I4 or the V6? What is the source?

showkey
03-18-2017, 07:17 PM
NOT To mention many of us will not being purchasing a diesel for our next van or RV :thumbup::thumbup:

I think the Ford long block mentioned is perfect comparison. Very common to reuse all the bolt on components.

lindenengineering
03-18-2017, 07:21 PM
Rule of thumb MB V6 engines .

Ex MB retail Bluetech engine $15,500. Complete
Non Bluetech $10,500 complete .
Dennis

smiller
03-18-2017, 07:28 PM
Rule of thumb MB V6 engines .

Ex MB retail Bluetech engine $15,500. Complete
Non Bluetech $10,500 complete .
Wow... $5k more for the BlueTec version? As if anyone needed yet another reason to avoid them. :wtf:

flman
03-18-2017, 08:23 PM
Not that you asked...


Cut your losses and aggravation. Will you ever really trust that van?

Maybe find someone who has a similar NCV3 with body issues and sell yours to them.

The new Transit should be good for at least the warranty period.

:2cents: vic

You are right Vic, give me a good kick in the Asss and set me straight. :bash:

I will probably look like professor fate of the Great, great, great race trying to get that jalopy back together.

Bobnoxious
03-18-2017, 08:41 PM
Sprinter diesel may last twice as long but cost 3 times as much to replace.

:thinking: Durable German automobiles are a relic of the past, a culture of German engineering and frugality replaced with a disposable business model, "Make it cheap, make it fast but don't make it last."

BTW Dave, how many miles did your sprinter have when you sold it, 57,000?

Flman, how many miles on your Sprinter when it took a poop, 57,000?:thinking:

flman
03-18-2017, 08:47 PM
:thinking: Durable German automobiles are a relic of the past, a culture of German engineering and frugality replaced with a disposable business model, "Make a cheap, make it fast but don't make it last."

BTW Dave, how many miles did your sprinter have when you sold it, 57,000?

Flman, how many miles on your Sprinter when it took a poop, 57,000?:thinking:

52K and change.

Graphite Dave
03-18-2017, 08:57 PM
:thinking: Durable German automobiles are a relic of the past, a culture of German engineering and frugality replaced with a disposable business model, "Make a cheap, make it fast but don't make it last."

BTW Dave, how many miles did your sprinter have when you sold it, 57,000?

Flman, how many miles on your Sprinter when it took a poop, 57,000?:thinking:

Sold 08 V6 with 56,925 miles. Have been in contact with the buyer recently and he has put on another 30,000 or so more miles with no problems except for a glow plug. (or two?) Glad it is running well for him.

Bobnoxious
03-23-2017, 06:10 PM
Bob, I twitted [sp?] the Big Wig at MBUSAR&D concerning your plight and received a response, check your PM's.