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Dougflas
02-09-2017, 11:58 PM
Changed transmission fluid, fiiter, and plate on the Sprinter today. Drained the torque converter even though I drained it 20K miles ago. The last time, I had a bear of a time getting the aluminum seal off the converter. This time I was prepared for it. I spent almost an hour on that. Then I saw the old seal stayed on the drain plug. So now I have a messed up sealing surface on the converter. I ended up putting a seal washer on it and torqueing it down. I hope it doesn't leak. If it does, I am going to have to address this surface.

Does anyone have a fix for this? Anyone know of a surfacing tool? I sure do not want to have to remove the tranny and converter.

And no one needs to tell me how careless I was. I am full aware of that and feel bad enough. I need new glasses I guess.:bash:

Aqua Puttana
02-10-2017, 12:19 AM
How badly damaged is the aluminum seal face? Little scratches or gouged out?

Off the top of pointy little head...

If the damage isn't severe the seal washer may just conform and seal.

To dress the aluminum surface I would suggest a proper diameter end mill cutter with just hand power. Another possibility would be a hand style DIY surface tool as outlined in the T1N injector thread. Some DIY ideas are buried in here.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16068

Don't panic and continue the personal adversarial relationship that you are concerned with. Maybe it will all just seal and be fine? :idunno: Periodic inspection should be easy by just removing the square plastic plugs for access. If it holds for a time it will be fine.

vic

Bobnoxious
02-10-2017, 12:42 AM
Here's a photo of a counterbore and pilot. You would have to determine the correct size of pilot and counterbore and as Vic suggests rotate with hand.

misterbond10
02-10-2017, 01:11 AM
then after you refurbish it, clean it all with brake parts cleaner and slather some black silicone RTV on the drain bolt to seal it better

Dougflas
02-10-2017, 01:12 AM
Thank you Mr. Bob,
I forgot about counter bores. I have a set that I use for milling cap screw heads. I just measured one and it may work. So far, not leak but time will tell.

be safe

Dougflas
02-11-2017, 11:49 PM
UPDATE

Still not leaking so I will say I am saved. The counter bore is a great idea. I found some from MSC that has various pilot sizes so I would be able to select a pilot and make a shield to fit around it so the threads do not get damaged. BTW the converter plug thread size is 10mm x1

Aqua Puttana
02-12-2017, 02:04 PM
UPDATE

Still not leaking so I will say I am saved. ...
Good news. :thumbup:

Not that you asked...

Resist the temptation to screw around for the next fluid change even if you have the new shiny tool in hand. You may create more problems than you cure.

vic

Dougflas
02-12-2017, 02:07 PM
That is my intention. No more torque converter drainings. I will just change the fluid more often. And BTW, the copper washer seal for the transmission drain pan is on national back order. have to try the Benz parts dept as I used my last one up.

Dougflas
02-20-2017, 04:40 PM
Well it appears the plug is seeping. I ordered a counter bore with a 1/8 in piolt and a 10mm x 1 tap. I will fabricate a bushing for the pilot made of brass or aluminum so I do not damage the threads. I also ordered a 10mm x 1 tap to clean out the threads if needed.

does anyone know the capacity of the converter as I only have 3 quarts of Shell 134 fluid left.

thanks

Aqua Puttana
02-20-2017, 11:14 PM
Well it appears the plug is seeping. I ordered a counter bore with a 1/8 in piolt and a 10mm x 1 tap. I will fabricate a bushing for the pilot made of brass or aluminum so I do not damage the threads. I also ordered a 10mm x 1 tap to clean out the threads if needed.

does anyone know the capacity of the converter as I only have 3 quarts of Shell 134 fluid left.

thanks
As long as the newer drained fluid is kept clean, why not just re-use it?

For my peace of mind I always run it through a paint strainer funnel. That said, logic tells me that any stuff big enough for the paint funnel to catch would be caught by the transmission filter anyway. The fluid is introduced into the sump, so all of it passes through the filter.

:2cents: vic

Bobnoxious
02-20-2017, 11:38 PM
The other day I was thinking about your TC drain plug and the term I was trying to think of popped in my head. Spot facing was the term I was trying to think of. More of a technique than the name of a tool I believe. Sometimes, have heard counterbores called spot facers. I am assuming your intent is to dress the seaing surface common to the drain plug seal? A few suggestions if I may. Go slow and maybe practice on scrap trying to get feel for the tool. Sometimes, brand-new sharp counterbores have a tendency to chatter when using a drill motor freehand. Maybe attach the counterbore to a tap holder or wooden file handle. Doesn't sound like you have to make too many revolutions to dress the surface? Anyway, just brainstorming some ideas.

Dougflas
02-20-2017, 11:49 PM
The other day I was thinking about er your TC drain plug and the term I was trying to think of popped in my head. Spot facing was the term I was trying to think of. I am assuming your intent is to dress the seaing surface common to the drain plug seal? A few suggestions if I may. Go slow and maybe practice on scrap trying to get feel for the tool. Sometimes, brand-new sharp counterbores have a tendency to chatter when using a drill motor freehand. Maybe attach the counterbore to tap holder wooden file handle. Doesn't sound like you have to make too many revolutions to dress the surface? Anyway, just brainstorming some ideas.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will certainly play with the tool first. and you're correct...it should not take much to surface the sealing surface.

Dougflas
02-20-2017, 11:51 PM
As long as the newer drained fluid is kept clean, why not just re-use it?

For my peace of mind I always run it through a paint strainer funnel. That said, logic tells me that any stuff big enough for the paint funnel to catch would be caught by the transmission filter anyway. The fluid is introduced into the sump, so all of it passes through the filter.

:2cents: vic

Thanks for the suggestion. I will see how clean I can keep the fluid. I have 3 1/2 quarts left. I did find a Shell distributor 25 miles away. A case of Shell 134 is $62.56 plus tax naturally.

Mike DZ
02-21-2017, 12:12 AM
Amazon Shell ATF 134 Mercedes Benz Transmission Fluid, MB 236.14 and 236.12 - 6 Count (1 QT./946 ml. each) $45.76 & FREE Shipping

Dougflas
02-22-2017, 05:42 PM
Well, here is how it went. I ended up using a 9/16 counter bore with a pilot sized to fit the threaded plug. I was able to remove the deep grove in the surface however the counter bore wanted to chatter somewhat. I can only hope this does it. From the picture you can see the groove that I was able to remove.

Bobnoxious
02-22-2017, 07:15 PM
Looks like an excellent job if you ask me. May I suggest a thin coat of RTV silicone to the sealing surface. And I mean a very small amount avoiding any "squeez-out" entering the tranny.

Dougflas
02-22-2017, 09:34 PM
I put it back together with just a new sealing washer. I will have to se if it does the trick. I should have taken a photo after the machine work but forgot. Don from Silver Star Transmissions advised me a week ago not to use RTV. Also, Silver Star Transmissions were very helpful.

Dougflas
02-23-2017, 11:20 PM
And my saga continues.... Looked underneath and saw some dripping at the front of the bell housing. I spoke with Permatex and they suggested using high temp thread sealant #59214.

Went and bought some today. Instructions state 72 hours for full cure. Permatex rep said that is for 10000 psi. He said give it 24 hrs if I could which is no problem. I can apply the thread sealant and turn the converter so fluid does not get on the plug. I inspected the drain plug and it was dry. A possibility is fluid is coated inside bell housing. Since I'm there anyway, I pulled the plug. I did not see any fluid on it nor the sealing washer. I read a post here that someone stated that the hole had a chamfer inside. My boring countersink did not leave that. I am considering touching it with a countersink/deburring tool in a drill. The sealing washer did show the imperfections the counter bore left.

I also read a post that DR.A stated that the front facing plugs on the late 2006's had a thread sealant on them.

What are the thoughts to touch the hole with a counter sink?

Aqua Puttana
02-23-2017, 11:50 PM
Since you asked...

Keep additional cutting tools at bay for a bit.

And my saga continues.... Looked underneath and saw some dripping at the front of the bell housing. I spoke with Permatex and they suggested using high temp thread sealant #59214.

...
You stated the refaced/repaired plug was dry.

As you mentioned, there was fluid being flung all around during the previous leak. What is dripping may just be residual from the previous fluid.

Your transmission will not run dry as long as you monitor the leaking properly. Be careful that you don't overreact and end up needing a new TC as a cure.

vic

Bobnoxious
02-24-2017, 12:16 AM
What are the thoughts to touch the hole with a counter sink?

I concure with Vic, it may be residual fluid. Take some engine cleaner flush the area. If the fluid remains it Will accumulate dirt and become a baked-on mess. As far as using a counter-sink to debur and accommodate the shoulder of the drain plug? Ever so slightly. Again, countersinks or "rosebuds" as they are referred to at the tool crib, are prone to chatter when sharp especially on aluminum. I would take a brand-new one and use it a few times on scrap cres steel aka stainless to dull it a bit then it would be good for aluminum (your situation may very). As far as thread sealant is concerned, I would use a very very little. Just my two cents.

Dougflas
02-24-2017, 12:32 AM
I am going to follow Vic's advice and not chamfer the edge. The plug and sealing washer were dry as a bone after a 30 mile trip. I thought I sprayed enough brake cleaner in there to clean the housing. And yes, just a little sealant is what was recommended. The plastic/rubber plugs were wet but not the plug. I have 4 more sealing washers left; GRINS.

Bobnoxious
02-24-2017, 01:12 AM
I'm not too sure about using brake cleaner? Is brake cleaner caustic to torque converter seals or adjacent components? I use Gunk brand or equivalent engine cleaner and carefully flush with water being careful by not going hogwild with the spray nozzle on adjacent electrical components. Standard hose bib pressure should be more than sufficient. Just my two cents to share and help.

Dougflas
03-09-2017, 03:01 AM
Final update Still no leaking so I'm saying problem is cured.

Aqua Puttana
03-09-2017, 03:33 AM
Final update Still no leaking so I'm saying problem is cured.
:thumbup:

Declare victory and move on with your life.

I've recently noticed fuel leaking [passenger front] on my 2004. I'm hoping it it is just the infamous high pressure pump bolts being loose. If that's the cause it only took 314,000 miles for them to loosen enough to leak.

vic

Added:
Not fuel. Transmission fluid. Likely rusted tubing. Nothing specific yet.