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View Full Version : BOOOOOOOOOST! or lack there of. p1470-16


underdogauto@aol.com
02-01-2017, 11:08 PM
ok, so my 03 Freightliner sprinter drives great then loses boost going up the 1st hill or freeway onramp. It sets a fault code p1470-16 charge pressure control is too low. I can't find any boost leaks. I have verified that the turbo actuator is pulling down all the way. It has a new air filter. I pulled the exhaust off. before it sets the fault it will boost to about 2170 MBA. Does anyone know the correct stock max boost I should see? is it possible to loose boost through say the EGR without setting an EGR fault? any other ideas? please help!

autostaretx
02-01-2017, 11:44 PM
2170 MBA is pretty close to what i get (i get up to 32 psi absolute, and 2170 mba is 31.47 psi)

Look for a tarry oil deposit sprayed onto an adjacent surface (or plumbing) in the area of your hose connections and any where along the line

--dick

underdogauto@aol.com
02-02-2017, 01:04 PM
I'll be doing another boost leak check today. I think I am going to try and make a smoke tester. It seems odd to me that when searching this fault I am not seeing millions of posts about torn hoses or resonators. am I miss interpreting this fault?

underdogauto@aol.com
02-02-2017, 07:11 PM
found a boost leak using a homemade smoke machine. boost is leaking past the shaft of the EGR valve. I have another valve that doest leak but that one sets a potentiometer fault and I can find a way to swap the stepper motor

Aqua Puttana
02-02-2017, 11:05 PM
found a boost leak using a homemade smoke machine. boost is leaking past the shaft of the EGR valve. I have another valve that doest leak but that one sets a potentiometer fault and I can find a way to swap the stepper motor
That is good input.

Charge air leaks/sensors/EGR issues.

There apparently are many times when the above problems set LHM without any DTC's.

Often replacing an EGR does cure the problem. Unfortunately a Sprinter EGR is not a 50 dollar part so shotgun parts swapping is not a good method.

If the leaking EGR does trace down to being the problem, you have revealed a possible test.

The charge air monitoring can be pretty sensitive to almost any deviation from expected. There are many sensors and calculations monitoring what should be happening. It doesn't take much of leak to make the ECM unhappy.

There are some posts/threads with successful EGR dis-assembly/reassembly operations. There may be some tips to help your parts swap.

vic

underdogauto@aol.com
02-03-2017, 01:46 PM
If you can't find your boost leak, pull the little plastic cover off your EGR valve. mine was full of oil that had made its way past the shaft. I'll look for disassembly instructions but It kind of looks like it is assembled then welding.

Lastly, and I could be wrong but I really doubt that these cars ever go into a true limp mode without setting any faults. I think It is more likely that ppl are using the wrong scanners or there is some sort of mechanical fault. these things are SO sensitive like you said they set faults for about everything. just not always a CEL.

Lastly Lastly, MB really messed up on a few things here. there is no reason that EGR faults should trigger LHM it should just set a CEL like on Every other Benz or VW or Audi or BMW.

kayakkingoz
02-03-2017, 06:42 PM
Check vacuum hose above battery. heater related thingo gets real hot & rubber hose cracks. renewed mine yesterday. Had same symptoms. I thought it was in limp but no warning lights. Got it humming along nice again now.

Aqua Puttana
02-03-2017, 11:40 PM
...

Lastly, and I could be wrong but I really doubt that these cars ever go into a true limp mode without setting any faults. I think It is more likely that ppl are using the wrong scanners or there is some sort of mechanical fault. these things are SO sensitive like you said they set faults for about everything. just not always a CEL.
I completely disagree.

First.
There are levels of LHM.
I hope that my posts/input on this forum has convinced other members that I'm correct about "levels" for LHM existing.

Second.
There have been many, posts here where LHM was set and no DTC's were triggered. Eg. - Small charge air (boost) leaks. OM612 engine vacuum system problems. Rusted/stuck/binding OM647 actuator linkages. Wonky temperature sensors.

Lastly Lastly, MB really messed up on a few things here. there is no reason that EGR faults should trigger LHM it should just set a CEL like on Every other Benz or VW or Audi or BMW.
Maybe it is part of the USA emissions compliance legal requirements?

:2cents: vic

sebtown
02-04-2017, 01:19 AM
Speaking from personal experience I have had three lack of boost experiences which led to LHM and not once did I get a CEL or a code, stored or not.

Rickpcmp3
02-04-2017, 01:43 AM
Speaking from personal experience I have had three lack of boost experiences which led to LHM and not once did I get a CEL or a code, stored or not.

What kind of scanner were you using to "not once...get a CEL or a code"?

underdogauto@aol.com
02-04-2017, 02:04 PM
yes, I would also like to know what scanner you are using and what the cause of the lack of boost was. Anything that would cause a true LHM is required by law to set a fault. I am not saying you are wrong just that I would like more info. I have worked on german cars professionally for over 9 years now and have never seen that, but my experience with sprinters is somewhat scarce until now.

I have used a PC based scanner running obd protocols that failed to retrieve sprinter codes my new scanner picked up.

underdogauto@aol.com
02-04-2017, 02:06 PM
I couldn't find anyone who has managed to take apart a om613 egr valve if anyone has seen this please send me a link

sebtown
02-04-2017, 04:26 PM
My first LHM was when the lower hose blew off the resonator. I had my Scangauge II which did indicate low boost but no code. Second time was a split turbo charge hose again no code on Scangauge. I was travelling away from home and took it to a local dealer who plugged in their factory scanner, no code showed. They found the split on the bottom of the charge hose but needed to order the hose. I repared it with duct tape and zip ties and drove 400 miles home. The last event was the famous leaking seam on the turbo resonator again no code on the Scangauge and no stored codes when I followed up with the dealer. I might add that not once did I get a CEL on the dash either.

autostaretx
02-04-2017, 08:06 PM
Mine (during the 1000 miles i drove with it leaking when pushed) would only occasionally throw a code (one loss-of-turbo out of 3?).

--dick

Aqua Puttana
02-04-2017, 10:17 PM
First. A Sprinter friendly/specific scan tool will access more modules and give more information.

There is absolutely no correlation of the type of scan tool and the MIL aka CEL being triggered. That is a function of the ECM aka ECU (or other modules) monitoring and programming.

Perhaps there is confusion as to what constitutes an LHM event.

My personal method of determining whether there is a computer set LHM.

Sometimes the computer isn't involved with low power situations. There are many levels of LHM. The test I feel applies is this:

Lower forms of LHM or Emergency Running Mode.
After having not made any repairs or alterations, if your normal operation and power returns after a simple shutdown and restart then whether you have an MIL (aka CEL) lit or not, the computer was involved in limiting the power. In most cases the symptoms will eventually return.
...

There are many posts/threads on this board in which a computer power limit is applied (my definition of LHM) with the MIL aka CEL dash indicator not lit AND there are no DTC's stored to memory.

The CAB and TCM have the capability of setting reduced power mode. That is not emissions related. There will be no MIL aka CEL lit. There should be DTC's stored... but maybe not.

Some information is here.

LHM Limp Home Mode Experiment
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17702

There are other posts/threads which can be found using the search.

:2cents: vic

underdogauto@aol.com
02-05-2017, 09:58 PM
Interesting info I'll read through when i have more time.

In other news. I ordered the GDE tune so I can use my non leaking egr. But my fault code has still returned. It comes back after going up nearly amy long hill. Anyone have any other ideas. I'm as sure as I can be there are no boost leaks.

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

blfmtriv
02-18-2017, 11:59 PM
just got my sprinter back 2006 model T1N om 612 engine , with similar problems like intermittent boost, dealer says no codes, but to check the control unit under the air filter,
one minute van is powering along then next set of traffic lights is like a limp fish , no power, changes up gears really really fast and blows massive amounts of black smoke, ten minutes later, take of from another set of lights and bingo powers there again,

anyone know what drives the vacuum plunger? what is it under the airbox?, could i have a wiring fault? any diagrams available please the van has been plagued with some wiring issue,s in the past , thanks in advance Andrew

autostaretx
02-19-2017, 12:06 AM
You can download a full 2006 service manual from http://aie-services-2.net/Sprinter/
Wiring diagrams are chapter 8W

US/Canada (NAFTA) 2006's use an electric turbo actuator, not vacuum

There are lots of threads on chasing the actuator (a DAD or similar diagnostic device can cycle it through its range)

--dick

Aqua Puttana
02-19-2017, 09:36 AM
just got my sprinter back 2006 model T1N om 612 engine , ... Andrew

Fixed it in blue.

...

NAS aka NAFTA 2006's use an electric turbo actuator, not vacuum

...

--dick
I believe that in other parts of the world the 2006 could have an OM612 engine with vacuum turbo vane positioner, or a non NAS aka NAFTA 2006 can even be an NCV3 model.

:2cents: vic

blfmtriv
03-01-2017, 08:16 AM
my 2006 is the last of the T1N, models before going to NCV3, its definitely a vacuum system, i,m going to pull out the air box and have a look , will advise of what i find

andrew

underdogauto@aol.com
04-20-2017, 12:51 AM
Just so everyone knows. I ended up putting a turbo in it. Fixed it. It still made full boost but one of the vains in the wold vg turbo must have failed caused it to ne slow to build boost or somthing. Idk. Anyway. 80k and the turbo failed.

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