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View Full Version : EsparD5WS vs EsparD5WZ


JHGould5607
10-31-2016, 08:46 PM
I'm looking to replace the diesel coolant heater. I currently have the EsparD5WS installed (with 7 day timer). I believe the ECU is bad.

Does anyone know if I can replace with EsparD5WZ? (unable to find the D5WS) The first thing I notice is EsparD5WS has (2) electrical connectors coming out of the unit. I only see one on the D5WZ. Is this an issue? Whats the other one for?

Thanks a lot in advance!

vanski
10-31-2016, 09:10 PM
yes and no.. the D5WS has two wiring harnesses compared to one harness on the D5WZ. The second smaller harness turns on the water pump when the engine is off. This is a different configuration to those of us who have the D5WZ heater which won't allow us to turn on the heater with the engine off. I don't know this for certain, but there's a chance you could swap the D5WZ for a D5WS and everything should work within the heater, but you wouldn't have the engine off capabilities. Which by the way is a very neat piece of functionality. You could put in the D5WZ and do the engine off modification found in the T1N write up section, but it's a bit of work.. Or at least it was for me :)

you could also try to find a working D5WS unit from a sprinter wrecking yard. This is how I got a working D5WZ. It took time and patience to get a working one.

JHGould5607
10-31-2016, 10:50 PM
Thanks for the info! Makes sense now. I'll keep looking for the D5WS. So far unable to find one. I did get a new D5WZ for $200. Do you know if it's as easy as wiring the circ pump to a switch and using the 7 day timer?

JHGould5607
10-31-2016, 11:37 PM
Also looking around..Did espar replace (D5WS) with a new model that would could be dropped in easily?

vanski
10-31-2016, 11:44 PM
Yes and No. Mostly No.

Here's how I would do it. You would need three relays which would get flipped on by the 'on' button on the 7 day timer.

1. - The heater itself
2. - The coolant pump
3. - The heater itself again.

Regarding #3 there is a wire called Terminal 15 on the D5WZ which needs to get activated. Basically this circuit tells the heater that the engine is running.

Some folks have had luck by simply feeding 12v into all the wires. I hate suggesting just putting 12v to it, but other folks haven't burnt their rigs down YET. :))

Not sure what they did with the D5WS..... I just no they're in the classy passenger vans like yours.

Aqua Puttana
11-01-2016, 12:18 AM
I'm looking to replace the diesel coolant heater. I currently have the EsparD5WS installed (with 7 day timer). I believe the ECU is bad.

Does anyone know if I can replace with EsparD5WZ? (unable to find the D5WS) The first thing I notice is EsparD5WS has (2) electrical connectors coming out of the unit. I only see one on the D5WZ. Is this an issue? Whats the other one for?

Thanks a lot in advance!
Let's slow down here.


Is the Espar an OEM unit, or an aftermarket install?

To my knowledge Sprinter OEM Espar heaters only have one connector on the heater whether they have a timer control or not. (Going by my 2006.)

I recommend verifying whether you have an OEM or aftermarket install.

Either way the easy answer is to repair the existing unit or replace it with the same type.

:2cents: vic

vanski
11-01-2016, 12:38 AM
There's a D5WS on Ebay right now - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hydronic-D5WS-/291919259594?hash=item43f7be67ca:g:smcAAOSwn7JYC1p l&vxp=mtr

vanski
11-01-2016, 12:54 AM
Hey Vic. Between 2004 and 2006 they sold passenger vans that had these D5WS heaters in them. This is all OEM. My buddy has one of these. He can run the heater with the engine off to preheat the engine and heat up the inside of the vehicle. His coolant circuit even gets routed all the way back to a rear heat exchanger and blower to heat of the rear (his is a 158). My friend also has the 7 day timer. And yes, his heater has two wiring harnesses; one primary for the heater, and the other to send 12v out to I believe the coolant pump. But now that I think about it, perhaps that harness is sending 12v to both the Automatic Temperature Control and the water pump.. Hmmmmmmm.

My friends wasn't working because his coolant circuit was messed up, but once we figured that out it worked like a champ. And with the engine off. Cool stuff.

Aqua Puttana
11-01-2016, 01:16 AM
Hey Vic. Between 2004 and 2006 they sold passenger vans that had these D5WS heaters in them. This is all OEM. My buddy has one of these. He can run the heater with the engine off to preheat the engine and heat up the inside of the vehicle. His coolant circuit even gets routed all the way back to a rear heat exchanger and blower to heat of the rear (his is a 158). My friend also has the 7 day timer. And yes, his heater has two wiring harnesses; one primary for the heater, and the other to send 12v out to I believe the coolant pump. But now that I think about it, perhaps that harness is sending 12v to both the Automatic Temperature Control and the water pump.. Hmmmmmmm.

My friends wasn't working because his coolant circuit was messed up, but once we figured that out it worked like a champ. And with the engine off. Cool stuff.
Thanks. Interesting. It is common for aftermarket Espars to have a built in coolant circulation pump. I wonder if that WS model is more compatible to replacement by a more conventional style Espar as opposed to the other MB bastardized models? (My guess is that anything which is MB OEM Espar is somewhat tainted.)

My 2006 has the Espar programmable control and a rear heater. I'll need to specifically try my rear heater with engine off. Out of curiosity I did trace the coolant circuit which appears to circulate the diesel heater coolant through the rear unit. So far I haven't noticed the rear heat fan running during engine off operation.

I recall a thread where someone had a heater that would run like an aux heater unit, but only had an enable switch, no programmable control. These different Espar options continue to unfold for me.

vic

JHGould5607
11-01-2016, 01:21 AM
I purchased the van at auction but it is listed on the sticker.

http://imgur.com/a/cdU1m
http://imgur.com/a/Q0uBn

As your discussing it does have this option. The coolant lines coming out of the espar 'T off' and go to the rear of the vehicle. The fan blower for the rear does blow on both Hi/Low. Don't think this makes any difference in operation of espar.

maybe I can use the parts from the new D5WZ to fix the one I have. I am getting a F30 error message from the espar. (I ran the diag wire based on the instructions here)
Is the COMBUSTION AIR FAN the same?

Vanski- Thanks I did see that one but it has 24v listed?

Aqua Puttana
11-01-2016, 01:30 AM
...
Is the COMBUSTION AIR FAN the same?
...
My guess is yes which should apply to the other parts too. I say that because the basic heater model number carries through with most of the units. Espar uses a similar basic unit for many applications including boat heaters. A visual inspection may be all that is needed.

vic

JHGould5607
11-01-2016, 01:35 AM
OK thanks! Will do a close visual inspection. If I can get it out without breaking it further...

vanski
11-01-2016, 01:40 AM
I'm still learning as I go, and here's yet another example. I was under the impression that you couldn't wire the diagnostic wire to the 7 day timers to get diagnostic capability because there are specific diagnostic capable 7 day timers... Seems that JH figured that's not the case. Good on you. I'll let my friend know.

I didn't see that was 24V. My bad.....

So F30 is a tough one. In my experience with several of these F30 can indicate that the ECU is no good.

But it should indicate the blower motor is either stuck or bad.

Believe it or not these things are pretty easy to take apart.

Take it apart much like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14SUSxfPHPY and pay special attention to whether or not the blower is actually stuck. This video does a good job of illustrating this process.

While you're in there, I personally would test the blower motor with a 9v battery like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K369wzkgTE

You're going to have to look at the wiring diagram to determine which wires. I forget off the top of my head which they are. I know brown is negative, and I remember being able to trace the other wire as the power wire to the blower.

If you clean it out, including making sure the blower motor isn't stuck, and the blower motor spins up via the 9v test, then my experience tells me the ECU in the heater is bad. At that point you need to either find a new d5ws or use the d5wz but do some electrical work to get the OEM functionality.

Once again, thanks for confirming you can hook up the diagnostic wire to OEM installed 7day timers and read the codes...

JHGould5607
11-01-2016, 01:44 AM
I did (I think) manage to reset the ECU with the 7 day timer. It did try once. Fan never came on. I heard ticking and a little white smoke. Now it just displays F30. (doesn't seem to try)

Maybe this means the ECU is OK? Thanks for the videos!

vanski
11-01-2016, 01:52 AM
yes! that is very good news. you probably just need to take the thing apart and clean it like in that video. buy the gasket replacement set from esparparts.com

JHGould5607
11-01-2016, 05:10 AM
I believe the fan is stuck. When I spin it by hand it sounds 'crusty'. Just like the video below. What is he doing here at 3:50 when the fan is removed?

Haven't tried the 9v battery yet.

thanks again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY2sFCzriQQ

vanski
11-01-2016, 06:11 AM
At 3:50 he looks to be pushing out the wires from the internal harness.

If it's crusty and isn't spinning properly, that's most likely your problem and the f30 code also points to the blower motor not spinning freely.

I've taken a thin butter knife or putty knife and slipped it beneath the black fan wheel (it has a different actual name, sorry) and fixed that issue. Be careful not to pop it off the pin or raise it to where it hits the cap when you put it all back together.

Not sure you need to do the 9v test if you can get it to spin freely.

Aqua Puttana
11-03-2016, 12:13 PM
...

Live and learn. :thumbup:

vic
Yesterday I accessed my passenger 2006 Glow Plug Module for some repairs.

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51543

My 2006 has the Aux Espar programmable dash unit and rear heater.

It must have the Espar D5WS heater because it has the second connector.

My casual observation. The main Espar connector *appears* to be the same as my cargo model 2004 D5WZ. The second connector is a pigtail out of the Espar.

I know from research that the "regular" Espar heaters have different pin-outs vs the Mercedes FrankenEspar heaters. The heaters use a common combustion computer/module.

It appears that with using the connector(s) from a D5WS and (maybe) some internal wiring changes a basic D5WZ could be swapped in to replace the Espar. This is based upon a common combustion control module having different wiring. It is a guess, but worth exploring.

As an aside, The piping off the Espar is a bit more complex with the rear heat option.

:2cents: vic