Start Battery question

Before i get yelled at, i did the search and i cant find it. If you have a link that addresses my question, by all means, send it to me.

My 2013 3500 Sprinter (40k miles) sits a lot. My starter battery is dead and wont charge.

Is an AGM highly recommended and if so, what brand? Batteries Plus has a Duracell for $195.00

If AGM is not required or doesnt really matter, they have a Duracell for $135.

Dealer wants $260


Where are you guys getting your batteries??

Oriellys SuperStart Part# 49EXT . We have a fleet of 35 never a problem with this battery. Cost around $145.00

Sams Club has the group 49 "Duracell"

AGM for $169
Conv for $121

AGM seem to tolerate sitting or storage better. ?

In March 2015 I made the mistake of replacing my "still pretty good, but 9+ years old" OEM Varta battery with a Duracell FLA from BatteriesPlus.
Within a year it was (is) holding less charge than that old Varta. (which held 12.4 at removal, 11.7 when starting)
The Duracell is now dropping to 12.2 overnight.
(it drops to 10.5 volts when starting, which kicks my GPS offline)

Time to go play warranty exchange...

--dick (whose Sprinter sometimes sits 3 months)
p.s. i have charged the Duracell a couple of times with a 3 stage charger to see if i could combat sulfation. No apparent help.

You said, "sits a lot".

A good battery will last a lot longer and not discharge, if you pull the Main Battery disconnect, that MB puts right above the throttle (gas) pedal.

The computer/ ECU will "pull it down", in just a couple of weeks.

brianwoodmanchue said:

You said, "sits a lot".

The computer/ ECU will "pull it down", in just a couple of weeks.

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In theory the normal parasitic draw of about 20-60 ma will draw the battery down in a month or so depending on conditions.

Yes......... the battery disconnect is a good idea for any time longer than a few weeks of sitting.

will offer my .02 here:

if the presently installed battery is dropping to 12.2 overnight? (and how many hours would that be)
you might have a bad cel - or some mystery drain - since that level of charge i would associate with a 'tired' battery, or one that isnt being fully recharged
(like back upto 14.2+, for at least 20-30mins) - like with a bad or 'weak' voltage regulator?

if you can find someone with a DC clamp ammeter, its real easy to check for phantom loads
(but DC clamp ammeters arent common in the typical mechanic's tool kit, as they're expensive, like 300bux or so, for the fluke i have)

would suggest disconnect one terminal and try a full recharge with a GOOD battery charger (vs the eng-alt) - a 10 or 15amp unit is plenty, but...

make SURE the voltage comes upto 14.4 to 14.6 and stays there for at least an hour, before shutdown the charger.
then let the battery 'rest' - as in: no amps in or out - for an overnight - or at least 12hours
THEN check the 'rested voltage' - it should be appx 12.6+ - since every 1/10 of a volt below that is roughly 10% of the original capacity.

could also try a load test, or better yet a 'conductance tester' which will determine remaining capacity better than a load tester, without need to be fully charged.

on boats, if the alt-regulator is known good (14+v) esp for the crank batt - and if it drops to 12.2 overnight? with no observed phantom drains?

i'd immediately junk it.

HMR TYM said:

Before i get yelled at, i did the search and i cant find it. If you have a link that addresses my question, by all means, send it to me.

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There is a MB Bulletin about batteries. Unfortunately, I cannot send a link. I do have in PDF and will attempt to send via email.

HMR TYM said:

My 2013 3500 Sprinter (40k miles) sits a lot. My starter battery is dead and wont charge.

Click to expand...

Hum... 3-years old? While in storage do you use a battery maintainer?
I should ask, is it advisable to use a maintainer on an AGM battery because I am not certain? Hopefully, forum members can answer the question?

HMR TYM said:

Is an AGM highly recommended and if so, what brand? Batteries Plus has a Duracell for $195.00

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I would recommend the AGM battery.

HMR TYM said:

If AGM is not required or doesnt really matter, they have a Duracell for $135.

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I have read many sources praising AGM batteries.

HMR TYM said:

Dealer wants $260

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Although, I am a die hard Sears Diehard (pun intended) battery fan. When it comes time to replace the Sprinter's batt, I am going OEM. Not for any particular reason than just because. I want to keep my beauty original. However, everyone's circumstances differ. Shop around, ask for discount.

HMR TYM said:

Where are you guys getting your batteries??

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Almost exclusively from Sears because of their no hassle return policy.

just side note: when storing your Sprinter, do you place it on stands to keep the tires from developing flat spots? Make certain all the fluids, especially, the fuel tank are filled to reduce condensation?

Happy motoring,
Bob

outbound said:

will offer my .02 here:

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Thanks, added to my penny collection...

if the presently installed battery is dropping to 12.2 overnight? (and how many hours would that be)

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12 to 14 hours.

you might have a bad cel - or some mystery drain - since that level of charge i would associate with a 'tired' battery, or one that isnt being fully recharged
(like back upto 14.2+, for at least 20-30mins) - like with a bad or 'weak' voltage regulator?

Click to expand...

I'm just back from a 12 day trip, driving an average of 180 miles per day.
The scangauge shows its "typical" (since new) pattern of 14.2 v immediately after starting, eventually dropping to 13.7 to 13.9 and staying there for the rest of the driving day.

if you can find someone with a DC clamp ammeter, its real easy to check for phantom loads
(but DC clamp ammeters arent common in the typical mechanic's tool kit, as they're expensive, like 300bux or so, for the fluke i have)

Click to expand...

Sears sells a $60 DC clamp-on (which looks amazingly like the $80 Fluke they also sold).
I bought one soon after buying the Sprinter. Very handy for measuring glow plug (etc) performance.

would suggest disconnect one terminal and try a full recharge with a GOOD battery charger (vs the eng-alt) - a 10 or 15amp unit is plenty, but...

make SURE the voltage comes upto 14.4 to 14.6 and stays there for at least an hour, before shutdown the charger.

Click to expand...

I've got the Sears Diehard Platinum charger... it does follow the pattern you suggest (and, when told it's on an AGM, rises to 15.6 v for the final stage).

then let the battery 'rest' - as in: no amps in or out - for an overnight - or at least 12hours
THEN check the 'rested voltage' - it should be appx 12.6+ - since every 1/10 of a volt below that is roughly 10% of the original capacity.

Click to expand...

Agreed... the batt drops to 12.4 v within an hour after shutting down

could also try a load test, or better yet a 'conductance tester' which will determine remaining capacity better than a load tester, without need to be fully charged.

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I also need to dig through the basement to find a hydrometer... i know i've still got one (or two)

on boats, if the alt-regulator is known good (14+v) esp for the crank batt - and if it drops to 12.2 overnight? with no observed phantom drains?

i'd immediately junk it.

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I'm just a bit casual on "immediately"
(I'm also running this as a conscious experiment to see the Sprinter's response to a weak battery)

thanks
--dick

I have had great success with optima Yellowtop batteries.
They are AGM batteries that do well in both deep cycling and normal use

I have one in my mustang that sees both street and track duty.
It sometimes sits for weeks on end.

Bobnoxious said:

....
Hum... 3-years old? While in storage do you use a battery maintainer?
I should ask, is it advisable to use a maintainer on an AGM battery because I am not certain? Hopefully, forum members can answer the question?

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all depends on just how long it will sit with no charge input.
one of the best features of AGM tech is they hold better than 90% of full charge for upwards of a year or more vs FLA (flooded lead acid) will self-discharge at upwards of 2-3%/mo (settin for a year, they'll drop 25% or more)

I would recommend the AGM battery.

I have read many sources praising AGM batteries.

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autostaretx said:

Thanks, added to my penny collection...
12 to 14 hours.

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I'm just back from a 12 day trip, driving an average of 180 miles per day.
The scangauge shows its "typical" (since new) pattern of 14.2 v immediately after starting, eventually dropping to 13.7 to 13.9 and staying there for the rest of the driving day.

Click to expand...

sounds like the charging system is OK then.
but if its dropping to down to 12.4 within an hour and no phantom loads/drains?

i dunno... it all depends upon how quick the engine fires up, meaning as long as she rolls over nice and quick, you dont have to run glow much to get it goin, guess its just a matter of what you feel comfy with.

my basic test for a starting battery is: how long can you crank it before the RPM-drop rate starts to make you nervous - as in: if she cranks at its normal RPM and fires right up, well.. it's likely 'good enough'

but if she starts to sound tired just before she ignites....

dump it.
mind you, my perspective is from the point of view of:

if you're out on the water (the BIG pond), cant see the beach and cant get the engine going (even on a sailboat) ?

you might never make it back

why i mentioned on another thread that airline pilots tend to be my best (boat) customers, since they understand that if you're cruising at 38000feet, goin 5or600 MPH, you cant just pull over and look under the hood.

and if one is 100 miles out in the middle of nowhere - typically in a place with no cel service ?

you might be buzzard bait before anybody comes along...

Sears sells a $60 DC clamp-on (which looks amazingly like the $80 Fluke they also sold).
I bought one soon after buying the Sprinter. Very handy for measuring glow plug (etc) performance.

Click to expand...

wow...
80bux? for a DC clampmeter seems like a pretty good deal - for the occasional user anyway...

altho it has been quite awhile since i bought my fluke374 (2005 or 6?) but do note that the latest vers of it is still priced in the $300 range (at that vendor anyway)

in any case, 'being a pro' have learned the hard way that it ends up being 'cheaper' to just buy the best tools the first time, since the low priced item will invariably fail at the moment you need it most
and.. well... hows that one go?
'buy cheap, pay twice'

I've got the Sears Diehard Platinum charger... it does follow the pattern you suggest (and, when told it's on an AGM, rises to 15.6 v for the final stage).

Agreed... the batt drops to 12.4 v within an hour after shutting down

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1 hour, with NO load? (meaning not connected to anything on the van, 1 terminal disco'd)

like i said above, all depends on how comfy you are with its crank speed/duration.

the other thing to check would be what volts pull down to while cranking - if it wont HOLD above 11.7 while loaded up on the starter?

no way i'd leave the dock with it...

unless of course, you can jump your house bank to the crank ckt?
(like i can with my 1-2-both switch)

but as always, YMMV

outbound said:

like i said above, all depends on how comfy you are with its crank speed/duration.

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and, like i said, it's a conscious choice of an experiment...
(crank speed is difficult to assess, since it starts within a couple of seconds)

the other thing to check would be what volts pull down to while cranking - if it wont HOLD above 11.7 while loaded up on the starter?

Click to expand...

The took-out-of-service Varta held 12.4 overnight, and kept at or above 11.7 during plugs-and-cranking
The Duracell is dropping below 10.5 during cranking

no way i'd leave the dock with it...

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I do not intend to take the Sprinter out as a yacht. (it's not a VW Schwimmwagen )

unless of course, you can jump your house bank to the crank ckt?

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Bingo... (plus other back-ups) ...the house batt is in a portable battery box

--dick

A little battery info here...a flooded lead acid battery will self discharge over time. The same battery Left in a state of partial discharge (less than 90% SoC) will rapidly degrade and shorten its life. For vehicles that sit, disconnect the fully charged battery, and ideally at a small (~5watt) solar panel which will keep the battery full charged, and prevent sulphation of the plates.

I just bought a NAPA battery for my Sprinter a couple of months ago. I have had a "dead battery issue" with it, but I think it was because I parked for 10 days with my cell phone amp "on". The NAPA battery was ~$125 iirc.

Icarus

Interstate is the only battery for me. In Wisconsin where it can go below zero for a week straight and below 32 for a month or more every year.

Original is an AGM. To use flooded, you need a vent tube routed since the battery is in the passenger compartment. Personally, I'd put in an AGM. I've dealt with Batteries Plus, if you order on-line, and then pick up, save 10%. That's the way I'd go. You really either need to trickle charge the battery or disconnect if left for more than 3 weeks without running the coach.

Sparkx said:

Interstate is the only battery for me. In Wisconsin where it can go below zero for a week straight and below 32 for a month or more every year.

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will 2nd that, altho a lot of people seem 'bipolar' on them (either like em or hate em, not much 'middle ground')
i've had genly good experience with them, having sold/installed hundreds of them - both FLA and AGM types.

IMHO tho, the best thing to put in a sprinter (small diesel), would be a deep-cycle battery, of either type

why?

because a good deep-cycle batt will always have more than enough cranking amps, but more importantly will stand up to punishment (like long sloooow discharge, like if you leave your headlights on or something plugged in) much better than a 'cranking' battery will, since they are much more ruggedly built (thicker plates, better withstand vibration, discharging em til dead etc)

just my .02

Just because the battery is a deep cycle type doesn't necessarily mean it will be able to produce a high level of cranking amps compared to a starting battery of the same form factor. In fact many deep cycle batteries have very little cranking amp ratings due to their reduced surface area. An exception is AGM deep cycle batteries which may have substantial surface area improvements over flooded types and often will supply more than adequate cranking amps.

Deep cycle batteries obviously endure deep discharge much better than starting batteries which have spongy plates to maximize surface area.

Personally the added cost of an AGM battery and this application is far outweighed by the many benefits provided by this battery type.

Self discharge rates of lead acid batteries are determined by battery type and age and dramatically affected by ambient temperatures. An easy way to reduce the self-discharge rates of battery is to reduce its temperature. For example just tossing the battery in the fridge will cut the self discharge rate by two thirds compared to a high ambient temperature environment.

The best solution is simply to have your battery maintained by float charger at the recommended float voltage.

autostaretx said:

and, like i said, it's a conscious choice of an experiment...
(crank speed is difficult to assess, since it starts within a couple of seconds)

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yep, guess it would - i have a natural tendency to revert to boatguy mode on stuff like this.
(where on most larger vessels - that i've worked on - use separate buttons for crank and start, so you can hold the stop button - or pull on the kill-lever on the injection pump - while cranking and watch a voltmeter and amp-clampmeter - to determine whether its a bad battery or something else - like a loose or corroded connection somewhere)

The took-out-of-service Varta held 12.4 overnight, and kept at or above 11.7 during plugs-and-cranking
The Duracell is dropping below 10.5 during cranking

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same group/size/rating as the varta?
likely too 'tired' (or defective, or just junk vs the varta or not actually same rating = deceptively labeled)

dunno about their big batts, but every piece of batt-pwrd test eqpt that i EVER put 'duracells' in?
the buggahs all leaked, destroyed some very pricey stuff on me - maybe it was 'the heat' - couldnt tell ya, but i will NEVER put duracells in anything that cost more than a few bucks EVER again! - i mostly use rechargables now in most everything anyway, so its a mute point - but NEVER again.

I do not intend to take the Sprinter out as a yacht. (it's not a VW Schwimmwagen )

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YEEE > HAAAA!!!

just imagine how much fun we could have with that type of chassis with a sprinter van body on top!
guess thats why the new 4x4's are so popular these days, eh?

Bingo... (plus other back-ups) ...the house batt is in a portable battery box

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thot you'd appreciate that!

yep - no argument on any of this, Mwd = agree 100%
(as much as i'd like to go mode=verbose on what i put up here, i cant type or compose fast enough to keep the brain focused sufficiently to actually get it all up 'on screen' before time limits force me to press the post button

Midwestdrifter said:

Just because the battery is a deep cycle type doesn't necessarily mean it will be able to produce a high level of cranking amps compared to a starting battery of the same form factor. In fact many deep cycle batteries have very little cranking amp ratings due to their reduced surface area. An exception is AGM deep cycle batteries which may have substantial surface area improvements over flooded types and often will supply more than adequate cranking amps.

Deep cycle batteries obviously endure deep discharge much better than starting batteries which have spongy plates to maximize surface area.

Personally the added cost of an AGM battery and this application is far outweighed by the many benefits provided by this battery type.

Self discharge rates of lead acid batteries are determined by battery type and age and dramatically affected by ambient temperatures. An easy way to reduce the self-destructs Rendville acid battery is to reduce its temperature. For example just tossing the battery in the fridge will cut the self discharge rate by two thirds compared to a high ambient temperature environment.

The best solution is simply to have your battery maintained by float charger at the recommended float voltage.

Click to expand...

2 quick comments. Most major brands of batteries are made by a very few manufacturers, they carry different labels. Many are made by Johnson Controls. Branding is not really of too much value except in super premium batteries like Trojan, Rolls Surrete, or Crown. Warantee and CCA is the measure of value.

Second, I noticed that someone mentioned the Sears clampon ammeter in an above post. A very good meter for the price, ( I own several). Beware however that you make sure you buy the meter that does both AC and DC amps. They sell one that looks identical for a few bucks less than only measures AC current.

Icarus