Yet more emissions trouble

My 2011 Sprinter 2500 is at the dealership yet again for emission trouble, this time it's the knock sensors, there are two of them. the dealership wants $1400.00 to fix it. I had the same exact problem last August. Mercedes warranty's their parts for one year, so the dealership and I are trying to get some assistance from Mercedes. To say that I am over it already is a huge under statement. I love Mercedes products I currently own 12 of them but this truck is really testing my faith. I only have 65k on the truck and I must have a 8 CEL that I had to go to the dealership, I didn't mind when it was warranty but know that I have to pay out of pocket it's a whole new ball game. I have never missed a service, I can't treat a vehicle any better. I would like to know is this normal or did I get a bad one. And is there anything I can do to avoid this happening in the future. thank you in advance.

Kid347 said:

My 2011 Sprinter 2500 is at the dealership yet again for emission trouble, this time it's the knock sensors, there are two of them. the dealership wants $1400.00 to fix it. I had the same exact problem last August. Mercedes warranty's their parts for one year, so the dealership and I are trying to get some assistance from Mercedes. To say that I am over it already is a huge under statement. I love Mercedes products I currently own 12 of them but this truck is really testing my faith. I only have 65k on the truck and I must have a 8 CEL that I had to go to the dealership, I didn't mind when it was warranty but know that I have to pay out of pocket it's a whole new ball game. I have never missed a service, I can't treat a vehicle any better. I would like to know is this normal or did I get a bad one. And is there anything I can do to avoid this happening in the future. thank you in advance.

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I believe that if you own 12 of them you will get more assistance from your dealer and Mercedes than most.
Don't be shy, make this fact know to them.

PS: I would assume that these are NOx sensors rather than knock sensors since all diesels knock.

Kid347,
Do you have them all serviced by an authorized MB/FL Sprinter dealer's Sprinter specific commercial shop?
If so, which oil specs are they using?
4 2003 Sprinter 2500 140" MB Bevo 229.5
1 2006 Sprinter 2500 158" MB Bevo 229.5
1 2008 Sprinter 2500 144" MB Bevo 229.51
1 2011 Sprinter 2500 144" MB Bevo 229.51
1 2015 Sprinter 2500 144" MB Bevo 229.52
Actually all of the OM-642 3.0 liter V6's can use the 229.52 oil spec.
Roger

Kid347 said:

My 2011 Sprinter 2500 is at the dealership yet again for emission trouble, this time it's the knock sensors, there are two of them. the dealership wants $1400.00 to fix it. I had the same exact problem last August. Mercedes warranty's their parts for one year, so the dealership and I are trying to get some assistance from Mercedes. To say that I am over it already is a huge under statement. I love Mercedes products I currently own 12 of them but this truck is really testing my faith. I only have 65k on the truck and I must have a 8 CEL that I had to go to the dealership, I didn't mind when it was warranty but know that I have to pay out of pocket it's a whole new ball game. I have never missed a service, I can't treat a vehicle any better. I would like to know is this normal or did I get a bad one. And is there anything I can do to avoid this happening in the future. thank you in advance.

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You can't do much !
Not only do the new NOx sensors control the operation of the system by reporting gas resultants but they are activated by the thermo couples in the system which have also been updated! Not to mention a re- prog to correct condensation forming inside the reactor causing cracking of the Nox ceramic bodies!
Then we have the dosing pump itself which must deliver the correct amount of DEF fluid @ 5000 Hpa and not be crystallined at the nozzle or restricted within the pump system.

MB and others have been at this stuff for more than 6 years and still don'y have it right!--but to be fair they are getting there at everyone's expense but theirs!
All the best
Dennis

Thump_rrr said:

I believe that if you own 12 of them you will get more assistance from your dealer and Mercedes than most.
Don't be shy, make this fact know to them.

PS: I would assume that these are NOx sensors rather than knock sensors since all diesels knock.

Click to expand...

If this is a fleet operation and not an enthusiasts collection, then I would be trying out some alternatives and daring to compare!
As will all business activities cost per mile and residual value at disposal point are the keys to being profitable.
Dennis

To answer Sailquik I can't afford to get my service done at a MB dealership. After getting ripped off so many times I decided to start doing preventative maintenance in house. I only use Mobil 1 oil, and try to use only Genuine MB parts. Only in the case of when I have no choice because no one else has the diag to work on them do I go to the dealership. I have a DRBIII for our T1N's but I am very limited on the NCV3's. I am the owner of a small service business, and we cover the majority of the state of FL, we have a tech in the Orlando area that puts close to 30k miles a year on the 2015. But we cover so many miles that I really need a diesel. We do have two local techs in Miami that only do 10k miles a year, so we put then in Ford transit connects. I have now been without my truck for a week, waiting to see if MB will step up and help. I have lost all faith in this system, it's unreliable and very expensive to fix when something breaks. I thought I was buying the best truck made.

How far south are you in Florida?
I'm in Miami-Dade.
Have a Mechanic in area used to be a dealer tech.
Left and went on his own .
Did my oil cooler a few months ago and just did my Steering rack.

Kid347 said:

To answer Sailquik I can't afford to get my service done at a MB dealership. After getting ripped off so many times I decided to start doing preventative maintenance in house. I only use Mobil 1 oil, and try to use only Genuine MB parts. Only in the case of when I have no choice because no one else has the diag to work on them do I go to the dealership. I have a DRBIII for our T1N's but I am very limited on the NCV3's. I am the owner of a small service business, and we cover the majority of the state of FL, we have a tech in the Orlando area that puts close to 30k miles a year on the 2015. But we cover so many miles that I really need a diesel. We do have two local techs in Miami that only do 10k miles a year, so we put then in Ford transit connects. I have now been without my truck for a week, waiting to see if MB will step up and help. I have lost all faith in this system, it's unreliable and very expensive to fix when something breaks. I thought I was buying the best truck made.

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Interesting read!
First a small fleet operator who is brand loyal is what I read into this !
The type of customer that was prevalent in the last century in the trucking world!
You as a profile were my target for trying a competitor vehicle, the vehicles we made!

My first pertinent question was good today as it was 30 years ago!
What is your core business?
OR
Is it fixing vehicles in your fleet and sometimes fixing it for other operators.
Can you concentrate on building your core business?
Why are you brand loyal to this manufacturer?

Are they cutting you any special purchase deals?.Leasing contracts and advantageous buy backs?

Often I used to get initially a lot of push back to honestly answer these two salient but important questions.

So
How are the Ford Connects working out for you?
Have you had any real issues with them?
In my mind I am thinking! Being Ford Focused based and somewhat renown or transmission issues I can glean an idea of your operational problems!

As a side bar I have a customer who is Russian--savvy people Russians!
He has a fleet of mixed vans.
Sprinters Pro-Masters and Ford Transits.
He has a bigger patch than you Kid 37
All of the northern tier, Colorado and Arizona.
He is a firm believer in Hosses for Cosses.
Sprinters do not go into the Northern Tier --simply no dealer servicing network!
In his words its Promaster country!
Sprinters are for Colorado only .
Ford can do all !
He has spread sheets showing the financial expediency of a mixed fleet!
Can you do that as fleet operator ?
AND I do understand no van no business += No income!
Dennis

Kid347 said:

To answer Sailquik I can't afford to get my service done at a MB dealership. After getting ripped off so many times I decided to start doing preventative maintenance in house. I only use Mobil 1 oil, and try to use only Genuine MB parts. Only in the case of when I have no choice because no one else has the diag to work on them do I go to the dealership. I have a DRBIII for our T1N's but I am very limited on the NCV3's. I am the owner of a small service business, and we cover the majority of the state of FL, we have a tech in the Orlando area that puts close to 30k miles a year on the 2015. But we cover so many miles that I really need a diesel. We do have two local techs in Miami that only do 10k miles a year, so we put then in Ford transit connects. I have now been without my truck for a week, waiting to see if MB will step up and help. I have lost all faith in this system, it's unreliable and very expensive to fix when something breaks. I thought I was buying the best truck made.

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You say you are using Mobil 1, but are you using the correct Mobil 1 for each type of vehicle?
Here is the quick reference oil specification sheet for all Mercedes vehicles currently in production.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf
The owners manual for each model year may be a better place to look if you have concerns.
Take note that there are 2 sections for Diesel. One with DPF and one without.
Once you know the specification you can then search for the list of approved oils within that specification from the drop down menu of this page.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/228.51_en.html

Thump rrrr European formula 0 w40 for the T1N. And 0w30 ESP formula M on the NCV3. Every fluid we use mere the MB spec.

I would consider selling around 5 year 100 k until they improve the reliability of the entire Def system, if ever.

Some people seem to do OK, but many have very expensive problems with this system eventually.

Rob S said:

I would consider selling around 5 year 100 k until they improve the reliability of the entire Def system, if ever.

Some people seem to do OK, but many have very expensive problems with this system eventually.

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I leased mine with that plan in mind.
i got my first one in December 2013 and it now has 75,000 km on it now.
The problem is that ours are sitting in traffic a lot. This is what worries me.
Our average speed is only 30 km/h (18 mph).
At least they are not idling while parked.
The one I drive is only 1 month old so I have another 59 months to decide.

well MB stepped up, did they really? they are going to pay for parts. I still have a bill for labor around $500.00 This sucks, I am one month from being under parts warranty, I only have 65k on the truck, I have never missed a service. This just isn't right. How specific does the repair have to be for a lemon law? I know this is at least the second time for NOx sensors, but eight or so on the DEF emissions. I could sure use some help, I can't stay in business for long with repair bill like this, especially when I service the vehicle the way I do.

As a person from the other side, the dealer is also caught in the middle with warranty. They did what they could with their Goodwill policy. It's a very common settlement and it sounds like you accepted. The lemon law is clear: 3 repair attempts and in workshop for 15 days (30 days for buy back) cumulative. Law covers the first 24mo of ownership for manufacture to be held responsible, not the dealer. The dealer and MBUSA is behind the 8 ball from mother Germany. It seems to be less common for failure of the new NOx sensors, hoping for light at the end of this tunnel. I would ask the dealer about Q value of the NOx sensors, Long term adaptation (spec: 0.6-1.4%). How are they so sure it is the Sensors? What is the condition of the SCR cat? I would request a long Quality check before pick up.


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