Oil Loss/Engine Seizure, no warning

Hey all,

First post, hopefully I don't screw it up....

2012 3500 170. My third oil change 30k miles. I change the oil (mistake). Apparently I pinched the seal on the oil filter cap which resulted in loss of oil and subsequent engine seizure about 5 miles from the site of the oil change. Engine just quit, no warning lights, no smoke/smell nothing, just quit. Pulled over, opened the hood and holy crap oil everywhere, can't be good! Dealer says it's seized, can't turn the crank. Apparently the low oil quantity/pressure sensors don't work while the engine is running.

So now I'm looking for a new engine. MB dealer is quoting $15k for the repair (including parts and labor) which is a MB remanufactured motor....long block with the turbo and everything off of my engine. Reman comes with 3-yr 36,000 mile warranty.

Anyone heard of Metric Motors in CA? They quoted me $13,800 for a brand new engine with turbo, wiring, everything. There's also that place outside of Houston. Their quote is $7k for a reman. Any help/advise is appreciated. Don't need to restate that you should have the dealer do the oil change on a $15k engine...lesson learned the hard way.

I have little to add but to hope the engine replacement goes well.

I hate that Mother Mercedes didn't see fit to at least give Sprinters a low oil pressure warning dash indication, or even better a pressure gauge. You might consider adding a pressure tap to the replacement engine before installation, even though for you the horse is out of the barn.

vic

Thanks vic, I do get a nice warning when one of my headlights go out and supposedly the van will go into limp mode if you run out of DEF!

I had an oil cooler gasket cracked on my 2010 at 32K. Rapid oil loss, low oil message and audible warning. $75 later runs like new.

dragnf15 said:

Hey all,

First post, hopefully I don't screw it up....

2012 3500 170. My third oil change 30k miles. I change the oil (mistake). Apparently I pinched the seal on the oil filter cap which resulted in loss of oil and subsequent engine seizure about 5 miles from the site of the oil change. Engine just quit, no warning lights, no smoke/smell nothing, just quit. Pulled over, opened the hood and holy crap oil everywhere, can't be good! Dealer says it's seized, can't turn the crank. Apparently the low oil quantity/pressure sensors don't work while the engine is running.

So now I'm looking for a new engine. MB dealer is quoting $15k for the repair (including parts and labor) which is a MB remanufactured motor....long block with the turbo and everything off of my engine. Reman comes with 3-yr 36,000 mile warranty.

Anyone heard of Metric Motors in CA? They quoted me $13,800 for a brand new engine with turbo, wiring, everything. There's also that place outside of Houston. Their quote is $7k for a reman. Any help/advise is appreciated. Don't need to restate that you should have the dealer do the oil change on a $15k engine...lesson learned the hard way.

Click to expand...

Sorry I am going to be blunt.
Your dilemma was caused by carelessness.
The words of a Master when I was a staring out Apprentice in 1964!
No matter what you do test it, before you run it up the road!

I have done three engine replacements this year caused by leaking oil filter seals and lost drain plugs after a DIY oil changes.
Every vehicle,that gets even an oil change in my shop is tested before hand over! Simply because people are careless even mechanics. Its checks and balance thing!
This is not rocket science and changing oils is grunts work in shops even dealers! Those that can't cut it, get sent to the Lube tech bays!.
Even dealers screw up and I can relate to a Cummins engine in local dealer that went out in much the same condition as yours ended up!

Your best course of action is frankly an exchange engine from MB.
Just a plug and play install!
I have used Sprinter Warehouse but by the time you have finished dressing the engine and doing changeover like swirl valve manifold etc you come out just shy of about $2000 of saving PROVIDED all the stuff you can change over is good to use again!
Start having to replace ancillary things and that savings gets whittled down considerably!
All the best
Dennis
Mechanic

Yep, a ten second check for leaks could have saved you 15k. I second that you should go with the dealer, the savings at the other places don't seem like enough. And you need to consider resale value - it will look better with a MB receipt.

dragnf15 said:

Thanks vic, I do get a nice warning when one of my headlights go out and supposedly the van will go into limp mode if you run out of DEF!

Click to expand...

Well not as catastrophic losing an engine!

As with most DEF running low problems it often highlights hidden issues like short downs in level sensor systems and other bloody awful MB communication issues that keep the quaint sea breeze symbol up on the screen! A bit like those antique seafaring charts you see on Spanish galleons and Corsairs when Spain ruled the waves!--Of sorts!
At least with a suitable scanner and a bit of perseverance you can get the light out and any re-rest---simply re-set!

At least when it won't start its a temporary lock out but a seized engine is a permanent lock up!
Dennis

There be dragons me hardy!

Icarus

icarus said:

There be dragons me hardy!

Icarus

Click to expand...

Yeh make me contemplate as I wrestle with SCR adaptations & initializing DEF components and so on, who came up with this symbol in the first place?
Had he been to the Naval Museum in Greenwich?
Cheers Dennis

I would think an aftermarket low oil pressure warning flasher & buzzer could be assembled in a kit for less than $100.

I wonder why we haven't heard of this yet. In the OM601 OM602 OM603 days there was an oil pressure sensor on the oil filter housing midway down on the side. This was connected to an oil pressure gauge in the instrument cluster. In the OM606 application that the United States got in the w210 E-class chassis this engine lost it's oil pressure sensor and gauge. The hole that was formerly used by the sensor simply had a plug screwed in at the factory. Many people used that plug to install their own sensor or by-pass filtration oil supply source.

Does anyone know the best place for an oil supply tap for oil pressure on the CDI engine variants?

OM642?
OM651?
others?

owner said:

Yep, a ten second check for leaks could have saved you 15k. I second that you should go with the dealer, the savings at the other places don't seem like enough. And you need to consider resale value - it will look better with a MB receipt.

Click to expand...

Nope, not in this case....

So I used a WIX filter, not because I'm cheap but b/c the nearest MB dealer is a long way from where I live and I wanted to get the oil change done, but I would rather have used the MB filter. When I lubed and put the new O-ring on the filter cap, I was concerned b/c it seemed to go on a little too easy. I took it back off and compared it to the old one and they appeared to be the same size, so I thought it was probably just me being paranoid. I finished the oil change and ran the engine up to operating temp and checked everywhere for leaks....nothing. Added a bit more oil to bring it up to the proper level and ran it for another 10 min checking for leaks, focusing on the oil filter cap b/c I was concerned about the o-ring....no leaks. I guess it's ok I thought. So I'll drive it around some and recheck for leaks which I do on all my vehicles after an oil change. After all, how fast can the oil leak out (13qts!!)....it's not like I left the drain plug off and surely I would get some type of indication of oil loss before catastrophe right??...

I later asked the MB mechanic how so much oil could have leaked out of the cap which was torqued down so quickly. He said he's had his techs pinch that o-ring and by the time they drive it out of the bay, there is oil all over the ground. So when I went back home I checked the ground. No oil on the ground where I did the oil change. My driveway is about 150 yards of gravel....no oil on the gravel. About another 300+ yards of lightly traveled cul-de-sac....no oil on the ground anywhere. I believe the oil leak did not develop until I got on the highway approx 2-3 miles later and at least 10 qts leaked out within another 2-3 miles on the highway.

johnshmit said:

I had an oil cooler gasket cracked on my 2010 at 32K. Rapid oil loss, low oil message and audible warning. $75 later runs like new.

Click to expand...

Ok, so any idea why I did not get a low oil message and audible warning?

lindenengineering said:

Sorry I am going to be blunt.
Your dilemma was caused by carelessness.
The words of a Master when I was a staring out Apprentice in 1964!
No matter what you do test it, before you run it up the road!

I have done three engine replacements this year caused by leaking oil filter seals and lost drain plugs after a DIY oil changes.
Every vehicle,that gets even an oil change in my shop is tested before hand over! Simply because people are careless even mechanics. Its checks and balance thing!
This is not rocket science and changing oils is grunts work in shops even dealers! Those that can't cut it, get sent to the Lube tech bays!.
Even dealers screw up and I can relate to a Cummins engine in local dealer that went out in much the same condition as yours ended up!

Your best course of action is frankly an exchange engine from MB.
Just a plug and play install!
I have used Sprinter Warehouse but by the time you have finished dressing the engine and doing changeover like swirl valve manifold etc you come out just shy of about $2000 of saving PROVIDED all the stuff you can change over is good to use again!
Start having to replace ancillary things and that savings gets whittled down considerably!
All the best
Dennis
Mechanic

Click to expand...

Thanks Dennis. You have used Sprinter Warehouse, have you heard of, have opinions of or ever used metric motors (http://www.mercedesengines.net/default.asp)? I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest option here but they are advertising a brand new motor (complete assembly...turbo, manifold, fuel injection, wiring harness etc.) for almost the same price as the MB reman.

"....PROVIDED all the stuff you can change over is good to use again!
Start having to replace ancillary things and that savings gets whittled down considerably!" The $15k quote from MB is their reman longblock switching over the ancillary things that you speak of from my old motor. What if my turbo was damaged, now the price goes up like you say. I'm reasoning that maybe it's better to get the whole new engine assembly, then don't have to worry about my ancillary things.

MB says that a new engine is not available, only the reman. How does metric motors get new engines if the dealer can't even get them? How do I know if they are selling me a truly new engine versus a reman? I've seen pics (looks new to me) and I would travel to their shop to check it out first if I chose to take that direction, but is there a way to check the legitimacy of their "new" MB engines. Thanks again.

Mike

metric motors say their motors are reman

dragnf15 said:

Ok, so any idea why I did not get a low oil message and audible warning?

Click to expand...

I've heard of this several times before, usually from people leaving the oil filler cap off... and the oil slinging off the timing chain will empty the engine in short order.

It is common for engine controllers to "filter" their input signals to prevent short duration signals from lighting the dash lights.

For instance, if the vehicle is parked at an extreme angle, and the oil is not covering the pickup tube, you don't want to light the "low oil" warning light because it's just a situational problem... the situation will soon change and the oil pressure and/or level will return to normal.

Or, in the very,very cold after a cold start, you don't want to immediately light the low oil pressure warning... because the oil pressure will build slowly over the first few minutes.

In my opinion, the "pump the engine empty with no warning light" is a side effect of decisions made while tuning the engine controls. It is definitely possible to develop software that can detect a quick loss of engine oil pressure and light the appropriate light. Instead, MB chose to heavily filter the signal in order to reduce the occurrence of false faults. (setting the oil pressure fault code while there is sufficient oil volume in the engine)

What a Bummer Dragnf15 !... But if your 'new' engine should ever need future help when you're not close to home (Alaska for instance) ...ie warning lights? ...I doubt that even a GPS could find you a 'Metric Motors' phone number, let alone the nearest 'Metric' Warranty ? Dealer. Whereas MB would at least answer you phone call and cover your Warranty and NOx Emissions for another 60,000 miles?

I respectfully suggest that you stick with the devil that's already listed in your iPhone ! Rob

MB does provide a good ('same as new') warranty on their reman engines, but you pay for it. If a vendor such as Metric Motors or Jasper or whatever produces a high-quality product but a somewhat lesser warranty for a lower price then that's a reasonable option to consider. Basically with MB you are paying for warranty repairs up front (in the original purchase price) whether you ever need them or not. If a reman engine is of good quality and from a reputable vendor then the likelihood of failure within the warranty period is probably pretty small, so it's not necessarily bad economy to not pay for the deluxe warranty, just an individual decision.