T1N 118 BW High Roof w/ 300K - Engine Repl. or Scrap..? (Tampa, FL)

tater_hesher

New member
I recently acquired a running 2004 T1N 118WB high roof, with 300K miles, for $1800.00 USD. Van is running, but has some issues. These include CEL on, low compression in cylinder 1, mis-fire cyl 1 (DTC P0301) and Boost pressure issues (DTC P2359).

Physical inspection of the truck shows no 'black death' injector issues, glow plugs are NOT seized, no indications of major oil leaks, no indications of head gasket failure. Overall physical appearance is good. No body issues.

Driving inspection shows rough idle (obviously), increased emissions output, no trans issues, no cooling issues.

With unknown service history, I am beginning to investigate the best solution for getting it running reliably.

Used engine replacement..?
Quote from a respected, local shop: $3,500.00 engine (150K, 6-month warranty) + $3,000.00 in labor.

Engine rebuild..?
I have yet to find a shop that would recommend this route. With an unknown service history, most shops don't want to take the chance.

I have wanted a 118" WB high-roof T1N for some time. The ceiling of my budget for purchase/repairs/upgrades is $10K.

Does anyone have recommendations for how I might proceed..?

Thanks in advance.
 

ECU

2006 T1n 118 Sprinter
When it runs with the top cover off, do you see any blow by of the #1 injector? It sounds like the big issue is the #1 piston.
 

tater_hesher

New member
No blow by that I can see. Thinking of testing this more critically. Is it possible to use a fluid/liquid at the injector to better test this..?

Initial running was done with what we discovered was a worn/broken oil filler cap/seal. Lost just a bit of oil and caused some oil spray on the passenger side of the engine. Cap and seal were replaced and engine cleaned. No oil leaks now.

I am beginning to suspect #1 piston/rings or cylinder bore issues...
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Was the compression test done with a physical gauge inserted into the glow plug or injector port? The "electronic" test using the ECM is not very accurate.

Depending on the reason for the compression loss, it may be possible to do a partial refurb of the engine. Head off with new seals, replace the worn or damage piston/rings. A valve job. etc.
 

tater_hesher

New member
Initial comp. test was electronic. Physical test is happening now. I am suspecting a fuel washed cylinder or worn rings... We'll see. I am inclined to look at a partial rebuild, just not sure if it makes sense on an unknown history, 300K mileage engine.
 

220629

Well-known member
Overfueling is a possibility.

Another guess.

A significant pressure leak in the oil filter area could cause problems. There are oil jets which are directed at the bottom of the pistons for cooling and lubrication. If that volume was reduced it could cause piston issues.

There are methods to look down inside the piston/cylinder.

vic
 

ECU

2006 T1n 118 Sprinter
A comparison... a local fleet rebuilt a sprinter engine. Rebuilt one cylinder like yours. The rig had over 500k miles on it.
 

tater_hesher

New member
Well... physical compression test shows the following:

Cyl 1 - 0 psi
Cyl 2 - ? (stuck glow plug)
Cyl 3 - 225 psi
Cyl 4 - 210 psi
Cyl 5 - 240 psi

Doing a leak-down test on cylinder 1 to confirm.

Any thoughts/recommendations on rebuild in the Tampa, FL area..?
 

owner

Oz '03 316CDI LWB ex-Ambo Patient Transport
Make sure you don't ever reuse that injector from #1 because it is probably what caused the failure.
 

220629

Well-known member
...

Any thoughts/recommendations on rebuild in the Tampa, FL area..?
Thoughts??

Rebuild?

Unless there is a local engine re-builder who specializes in Sprinter or at least MB diesels I would avoid getting the engine completely rebuilt. From the information that I've gleaned from here there are just too many possible pitfalls.

To get a single piston replaced may be within the realm of a good shop.

I agree with Owner that you don't want to re-use the #1 injector. Best would be to have all the injectors tested for performance. There is an injector test shop in Florida which Doktor A has mentioned as being good. I don't recall the business name. An advanced search should get the information.

Good luck.

vic
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Well... physical compression test shows the following:

Cyl 1 - 0 psi
Cyl 2 - ? (stuck glow plug)
Cyl 3 - 225 psi
Cyl 4 - 210 psi
Cyl 5 - 240 psi

Doing a leak-down test on cylinder 1 to confirm.

Any thoughts/recommendations on rebuild in the Tampa, FL area..?
Those figures shows the engine is worn out!
You need to see 360 psi minimum for starters.
I rebuild lots of these engines and there are pitfalls you "can" encounter during a re-work.

In many cases re-boring a hole might take it past 0.020"! So that means a sleeve insert.
If you have to do more than two holes the cost starts to go sideways.
Then if the engine has really seized before it stopped the block might be distorted and the crank won't fit exactly and the lower end will seize shortly after it is out back into service.

A line bore check of the crank tunnel is almost de -riguer" if you want to make a success of the repair.

Usually I do a tunnel alignment test first, then a cooling pressure tests for block integrity, see if it can economically accept a re-bore with or without a sleeve or two!

Getting just to that stage with new pistons under-cooling spray jet there is about $2500 to be spent plus a further $500 in gaskets and shell bearings etc, etc! Then add labor and the cost starts to climb just to get to a short block!
A head rework is likely to set you back another $500 minimum.
So you get to something like $3000 add some labor and you have spent $3500/$4000 in a heart beat. You are then at long block stage.

No wonder many shops won't touch them these days its not worth the risk of come backs!

In many cases its better to look at a commercial re-build if time is of the essence and a Jasper rebuild will set you back $7500 with about $500 for dressing the unit, then add $1200 for for install.

You will still need a some new injectors at $350 pop because as "Owner" has mentioned I wouldn't trust them.

Ask yourself why did the engine fail in the first place?
I bet you the cooling system has been neglected so accessories , radiator and fan adds up to about $12500 all working as it did when it left the factory to be wrecked a few years later!:laughing:

These types of re-habs need careful budgetary planning, a good used take out might be the answer but they rarely come in great condition.
Caveat emptor
Dennis
Mechanic
 

Carlinojoevideo

New member
Why not just replace the engine? You will be under your $10k budget and the value of your can will rise to that number as well. I know I'd buy a 118 for $10k with a new engine all day.

I guess it all comes down to the condition of the rest of the vehicle.
 

tater_hesher

New member
Thanks for the input. I have not intention of re-using injectors without thorough testing. I have a source, thanks to Doktor A, for testing the injectors. Regardless of what happens with this engine, I will be sending all of the injectors off for testing.

Partial rebuild seems less and less like the right solution. I have little confidence in the local shops here. Even installing a rebuilt long-block has me concerned, as not many shops seem to be familiar or comfortable with the T1N sprinters.

Looking at Jasper and Sprinter Warehouse for long-block rebuilds... Surprising difference in price between the two.

I am leaning towards a rebuilt long-block + diesel injection pump rebuild + air intake system replacement... From my research and input from Doktor A, my cylinder 1 issues are likely to have been caused by air intake contamination and over-fueling. The last thing I want to do is hang the original, contaminated air intake components on a new long block.

The truck is otherwise in decent shape. Body is intact and no crashed. Only rust issues are two small areas under the windshield seal. Transmission is in good shape. It seems like a good candidate for a repl. engine.
 
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tater_hesher

New member
I am on the hunt for another 118" WB high-roof sprinter. I have zero faith in my local shops being able to accomplish an engine removal & replacement.

Is a complete engine removal and replacement something that could be accomplished in a home shop..? I have found a local, running, complete OM647 engine with 180K miles for $1500.00. I am would consider taking a chance on this if I could do the install myself. I am just not sure how miserable of a process this can become.

(FYI, I am mechanically inclined, have experience replacing engines in VW eurovans, and accomplished several Toyota 2F 6cycl rebuilds). I am new to sprinters.
 
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tater_hesher

New member
This project is being revived! I have purchased a donor vehicle with 55K miles and a perfect service history. It was hit while parked under ownership by a local county organization. Totaled due to lower B-pillar, door and rear corner damage. Engine, trans, drivetrain and interior are unaffected. All previous service was performed by county fleet management and local Dodge dealer. At present this vehicle drives great, no CEL or trouble codes, super clean injectors and valve cover, and tests well for compression and fuel injection.

My local shop is in the process of pulling the complete engine/trans/accessories and the installing them into my 118" high-roof chassis.

I am hoping to pick over the donor vehicle for all usable/better condition parts.

Oh, and I am having the injectors removed from the roached engine before they pull it out. These will go out for testing and hopefully become spare parts inventory.
 

tater_hesher

New member
The engine/trans/accessory/turbo/intake/exhaust swap from the donor is complete and I have approx 40 miles on the truck! I now have a 2004 118" WB High-roof van with 55K miles. All is well, just trying to shake down little issues as the original tub and interior had been sitting for a few months prior to me buying it. My list of issues with the truck so far looks like this:

• dead turn signals
(swapped relay, fuses and checked multi-switch connection at fuse box 1... still no change)
• minor coolant leak
(small, slow drip after engine is hot. appears to be coming from the rad hose on drivers side. haven't looked too closely)
• stripped/spinning recessed nuts for rear cargo handles
(the recessed riv-nut style nuts that are pressed into the rear, interior door frame. All recessed nuts (4) are spinning in the sheet metal when the slightest torque is applied.)
• foggy/UV damaged Freightliner headlights
(new headlights, grill and bezel are planned to re-badge as MB)
• cracked passenger side rear tail-light lens
• missing license plate light bulbs and connector

I am planning/hoping to pull the following parts/systems from the donor vehicle for install in my truck:

• Cruise control system and parts
(looking at this pdf for help http://www.sprinterparts.net/pdf/cruisecontrol.pdf, computer reprog by local shop. This might included multi-function switch repl. to address above dead turn signal issue)
• Auxillary battery system
(donor vehicle had aux battery system for two, deep cycle batteries and power inverter in cargo area. used for lighting, tools and other stuff)
• Misc dash plastic
• Rear door stricker plates and other parts
(donor van is low roof, and primary van is a high-roof, so doors w/ preferred glass won't swap)
• Sliding door swap
(slider from donor has glass and good door card. Slider from primary van has no glass and roached handles and hardware.)

Any input or recommendations are appreciated. I am hoping to tackle these issues slowly over the next couple of months.
 
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ebwhite

New member
What did the donor vehicle cost you? Was it wrecked that hurts to break up a 55k mile sprinter!

Labor costs?
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
I crushed one with 95 K on it the other day!

I have two more about to meet "El Aplastadore" No mercy!

Both lowish miles having had mishaps!
Dennis
 

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