Dead/Dying Turbo

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Psynk

New member
Late model 2007 Dodge Sprinter 2500 short with 3.0 Mercedes turbo diesel (without the turbo resonator).

To make a long story as short as I can, our turbo now dies on us at interstate speeds after a minute or two. In the past, it would very infrequently die, typically under hard acceleration such as an on-ramp. We can still drive, but 70mph is about our limit.

Solution is to pull over, turn the engine off, wait a few seconds, then turn it back on and life is good. Now that's only good for a minute or two.

Another symptom is the sound of rushing air as I accelerate from under the hood. Then it dies. Around town under minimal acceleration it's fine, though I do get that rushing air sound when I step on the pedal. A quick look under the hood and everything looks fine. I'm out of town and can't get a better look until Monday.

Recent maintenance this week included oil change, air-cabin-fuel filter swap, top off windshield fluid, and rotate and balance. This problem wasn't happening before the maintenance (probably just a confidence though).

Our truck place says it's an electronic turbo and should throw some errors that they can diagnose (will probably get that done Tuesday). They said we may have to replace the whole thing, not just the electronics or the turbo itself. Sound right?

Any thoughts on what kind of $$$ we might be looking at?

Is there a electrical connector to the turbo that I can disconnect, clean, and reconnect (thinking this might just be a connection problem)?

Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you!
 
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Brokecanadian

2005 Cargo 2500 SHC NA
Sounds like you're in limp mode. Same symptoms as I have including the return to normal operation after pulling over and restarting. (Mine is due to faulty egr) If it wasn't a holiday weekend I'm sure you'd have many responses by now...id say about a 1% chance it's the turbo...you really need a code reader compatible with the sprinter, see this site I bought mine for less than 200 and saved myself the 3500 for a transmission replacement by resetting the transmission limp mode...

Look for a split in the large turbo hose, it's the most common thing...search here for directions, I have an 05 and don't want to steer you wrong
 
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NelsonSprinter

NelsonSprinter

Former Nelson BC Sprinter
If the turbo is cutting out with the air sound you probably have an air leak in turbo hoses, intercooler or their connections, not a dead turbo. Leak probably could be spotted if covered in diluted dish soap , or someone looking at hoses while you try to accelerate with all brakes fully on to pinpoint location.
99% of Turbos never wear out, all hoses deteriorate after 7 yrs
new turbo $2000 installed, tightened hose clamp $5, replaced hoses $200

There usually is an oil drip from a hose split or lose connection
 
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Psynk

New member
Brokecanadian said:
Sounds like you're in limp mode......
Click to expand...
I have a '99 Plymouth that went in to limp mode. When it did that, I couldn't get out of second gear. In the case here, I'm usually in 'D' but can shift it into 4-3-2 easily (and I usually do if I'm getting on an On-ramp. I'll do more research on the forum. Anyone know of any engine schematics showing the various parts of the turbo?

Thanks again, happy Memorial Day to you all.
 
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Brokecanadian

2005 Cargo 2500 SHC NA
Psynk said:
I have a '99 Plymouth that went in to limp mode. When it did that, I couldn't get out of second gear. In the case here, I'm usually in 'D' but can shift it into 4-3-2 easily (and I usually do if I'm getting on an On-ramp. I'll do more research on the forum. Anyone know of any engine schematics showing the various parts of the turbo?

Thanks again, happy Memorial Day to you all.
Click to expand...
I shouldn't have mentioned the transmission, my point was, shops are there to make a profit, unfortunately at your expense if you don't know what's going on.

When a sprinter goes into limp mode (engine) it cuts out the turbo (boost) and does exactly what you are describing, for any number of reasons...my 2005 has a max of 65 on the flats and makes strange noises as the turbo is just dumping the boost.

There is a link for the entire sprinter service manual somewhere on this site, it's in the stickys at the top of a thread somewhere...probably for you in the NCV3 section...if you go the replacement turbo route you could end up with thousands in bills and the same problem unless the shop is familiar with sprinters...
 
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Psynk

New member
Brokecanadian said:
When a sprinter goes into limp mode (engine) it cuts out the turbo (boost) and does exactly what you are describing, for any number of reasons...my 2005 has a max of 65 on the flats and makes strange noises as the turbo is just dumping the boost....
Click to expand...
Thanks, sounds about right. Fixing my Prowler's limp mode was easy-peasy, I'll continue to research. Still, I can't do anything until Monday when we get home. Hopefully autozone may be open and get me some readings.

More research has also suggest the MAF, which I think I can get to beneath the "new" air cleaner they just installed (hopefully correctly). Also want to research more the diesel particulate filter, as well as see if I can find any leaks in any of the connections and hoses. One thread I read mentioned the whooshing sound from the system dumping the boost.

Also wondering about the new fuel filter, though the vehicle runs smooth with or without the boost.
 
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Rob S

2018 Navion 24G IQ on 2016 Sprinter
I'm with nelson sprinter here, you've just sprung a leak someplace, find that, fix it, and hopefully all will be well at minimal expense.

Check for oily spots on the hoses, get someone to goose it while you listen for leaks, etc

Turbo failure itself is most unlikely
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
Brokecanadian said:
I shouldn't have mentioned the transmission, my point was, shops are there to make a profit, unfortunately at your expense if you don't know what's going on.

When a sprinter goes into limp mode (engine) it cuts out the turbo (boost) and does exactly what you are describing, for any number of reasons...my 2005 has a max of 65 on the flats and makes strange noises as the turbo is just dumping the boost.

There is a link for the entire sprinter service manual somewhere on this site, it's in the stickys at the top of a thread somewhere...probably for you in the NCV3 section...if you go the replacement turbo route you could end up with thousands in bills and the same problem unless the shop is familiar with sprinters...
Click to expand...
I shouldn't have mentioned the transmission, my point was, shops are there to make a profit, unfortunately at your expense if you don't know what's going on.

May I just make a point that all businesses are there to make a profit at your expense even that fast food hamburger you buy on the road side has a bigger mark up on it than what is charged on parts!
To locate a problem you often need more than just a code reader but something that gives live data.
To quickly locate a problem & fix it I/we use Autologic products like these;
This cost us $10,000 with annual maintenance fees of $1500 and on the first tablet I have MB LR and Rolls Royce coverage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldEkJHRf6TU

The second tool I have covers all Euro brands with product support and pass through flash capabilities, It costs $16,000 and I hope you can understand why as a shop we have to charge for this.
Having recent'y gone for a medical I was charged and the assistant said I am sorry but there is a charge -I replied that's OK I understand but just like Doctors the motoring public want their car repairs FOC as well. So why not lobby your local Gov rep for an Obama Car Care or National car 'elf benefit!
Could call it Medicar!:lol:
Anyway the super dooper Autologic Assist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWkwNZCzL6o
 
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Brokecanadian

2005 Cargo 2500 SHC NA
Psynk said:
Thanks, sounds about right. Fixing my Prowler's limp mode was easy-peasy, I'll continue to research. Still, I can't do anything until Monday when we get home. Hopefully autozone may be open and get me some readings.

More research has also suggest the MAF, which I think I can get to beneath the "new" air cleaner they just installed (hopefully correctly). Also want to research more the diesel particulate filter, as well as see if I can find any leaks in any of the connections and hoses. One thread I read mentioned the whooshing sound from the system dumping the boost.

Also wondering about the new fuel filter, though the vehicle runs smooth with or without the boost.
Click to expand...
You're on the right track. Now the autozone scan reader may or may not help. Vehicles over a certain weight did not have to allow access to code readers, other than a few emissions items; meaning unless you get a Mercedes-Benz code reader with sprinter support you're out of luck.

However, if you correct the problem, the limp mode will likely clear on its own. (Like when you pull over and restart it) Egr and DPF should be included on any reader as they are emissions related. Good luck
 
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Brokecanadian

2005 Cargo 2500 SHC NA
lindenengineering said:
I shouldn't have mentioned the transmission, my point was, shops are there to make a profit, unfortunately at your expense if you don't know what's going on.

May I just make a point that all businesses are there to make a profit at your expense even that fast food hamburger you buy on the road side has a bigger mark up on it than what is charged on parts!
To locate a problem you often need more than just a code reader but something that gives live data.
To quickly locate a problem & fix it I/we use Autologic products like these;
This cost us $10,000 with annual maintenance fees of $1500 and on the first tablet I have MB LR and Rolls Royce coverage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldEkJHRf6TU

The second tool I have covers all Euro brands with product support and pass through flash capabilities, It costs $16,000 and I hope you can understand why as a shop we have to charge for this.
Having recent'y gone for a medical I was charged and the assistant said I am sorry but there is a charge -I replied that's OK I understand but just like Doctors the motoring public want their car repairs FOC as well. So why not lobby your local Gov rep for an Obama Car Care or National car 'elf benefit!
Could call it Medicar!:lol:
Anyway the super dooper Autologic Assist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWkwNZCzL6o
Click to expand...


I know you're very active on the forum and probably honest. If you diagnose a problem for a customer and fix it, I applaud you. Where I live I've never experienced this. The dealer service departments are the money making machines for the dealerships now, as cars don't produce much profit to the dealership...the service manager is a commissioned Salesperson. Whether you need it or not, whether you get the problem fixed satisfactorily or not, they have your vehicle and non payment is not an option - mechanics lien.

Try and go to court, the "licensed" mechanic automatically wins, he's the expert.

My recent experiences, just a few:

Sprinter stuck in 2nd and reverse, quote 3500 for completely rebuilt transmission, I fixed for 400 with fluid filter and control board

1200 for brake job to safety...when asked to prove that they were not measured at legal wear limit, they dropped the idea (everything measured well above wear limits)

150 dollars to fix ram van with "stuttering" acceleration...got into shouting argument with owner (again was safety I just wanted it back to fix myself) he made me pay for "fixing" problem which reoccured 10 miles later (oxygen sensor was stuck lean, I diagnosed with 100 dollar scanner, they had a 10000 dollar scanner too)

Quote of 1450 at Ohio ford dealership to repair rearend....after getting on hoist it was 2850 so I told them to put it back together and drove 400 miles home to replace with a 650 dollar used unit (2 hours with air tools)

Mom and pop truck repair shop by highway, 1000 dollars for a replacement spindle, I priced a new one myself and said I'd have it shipped in, suddenly they found one for 250 (it was the same part come on)

14,000 dollars for replacement engine for diesel ford, Ford dealership, ended up being stuck exhaust valve when I diagnosed...engine went another 600,000 miles!

Forgot my favorite: bought a used 3 year old Mazda for 16,000, had less than a year, brought to dealership for recall work, intake and rear heater hose recall..was called to pick it up, they were out test driving and would be ready in 10 minutes...we had left but they left a message on the machine saying don't come, they needed to talk to us...when we got there, they said we needed a new motor, 9000....wife freaked out while I took pictures, junior tech forgot to put in antifreeze...not only did they not take responsibility they told us to get it off their lot and told the wife of she ever came back they would call the police

Got my own engine from a wrecked MPV and it was the worst swap I've ever done, but ran flawless, $1000...and the "recall" on the rear heater core consisted of cutting the hoses at the front and capping off, imagine they kept the parts to sell to someone else

Anyway, I completely understand the investment you've made in running a legitimate successful service business, unfortunately your contemporaries have soured me so much I can't trust anybody to touch one of my vehicles if they did it for free.

I just advise everyone to know as much about what they are taking it in for as they can, whether they do it themselves or pay to have it done. Caveat emptor, the more responsibility you take upon yourself, the more freedom and income you enjoy
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
Mr Broke Canadian
Interesting viewpoint!
In fact it mirrors almost a similar discussion I have had a while back now with an old school friend now a retired pathologist! He pursued the medical profession in 1964 as a school leaver, me engineering.

As a piece of serious advise he warned me about the medical profession and doctors in the USA.
All profit driven, in cahoots with the drug companies, largely incompetent, and will kill you with prescription drugs! Be wary of their diagnosis and methods! It can be fatal to entrust them.

Summing up the discussion by saying I like American doctors as individuals but as a group and the AMA, they are an effing disaster! Be careful they kill as many people almost as road accidents by incompetence and serious mistakes!

Now I have a daughter trained as a surgeon here in the USA. Her field is pediatrics and is currently running a clinic in Africa. Now she is a very well trained practitioner and able to deal with complete competence on ballistic cranial (head) wounds in children. I know also as clients, medical practitioners who equally are very capable should you have a serious medical condition.

Jumping back to the vehicle repair business as a business; it is there to provide a service at a profit. The better you are at it the more profit you obtain. Just like many other trades & professions including the Med related ones I have mentioned.
The issue for many repair shops is that historically this is one of the easiest repair businesses to get into & where you go with this is up to the individual!~ And the shop itself!
.
I would say after having run many repair shops around the world that the USA is short of properly educated mechanics that have the skills to fix modern cars. The Mexican immigrant equivalent is far more competent and caring with a customers' vehicle. Consequently the Latino business sector is growing at a far greater rate than the Anglo one.
Taking it a stage further I know of fellow shop owners in Aspen that won't employ Americans and cater to the Hollywood "Glitteratze". They only employ short term contract mechanics from Germany and Switzerland, I kid you not!
Their criticism in short (two words Careless Bastards)
Strangely enough far away from US shores and in Kuwait I did an "engineering gun for hire" project repair on a 1000 bus fleet.
The operation was run by an American consultant company from Cincinatti. What struck me was the the actual mechanics all from Europe, India, Russia and Asian countries.
Asking management as a USA based company; I see no American on the floor--I got back --No! A disaster! Too incompetent! We are in the business of converting Dinars to Dollars not going back and fixing their shoddy work! Our remuneration is based on fleet reliability and operational percentages.

I thought crikey I have heard that somewhere before!
:rolleyes:

Now in summation the trade is desperate for skilled mechanics, (fact) and as the complexity of modern cars increases it wheedles out the incompetents and this is seen none morso than in Euro platforms including MB's.
The need for sophisticated equipment (read expensive) is putting the ordinary repair out of the hands of DIY'rs and poorly invested shops (training, education and tools).
Its coming and you can see it on posts in these very forum pages!
Even some Pro shops are stumped by turbo operation malfunctions and drive ability seen on two or three posts this week!.
The code reader "scrounge" from The Zone no workee any longer! Besides in California, The Zone "no scannee" and my local Advance Auto around the corner has stopped doing it as well!
Takes up too much time and we are getting complaints that the results are often wrong!
Just a piece of friendly advise!
If you solicit a shop for a repair even a dealer ask the manager type What is your shop efficiency rating?--if you get a star gazing reaction RUN!
And that my dear friend is why you have had bad experiences!

Cheers Dennis
9 bay Shop Owner
Mortgage paid next year!:thumbup:
 
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Brokecanadian

2005 Cargo 2500 SHC NA
Don't get me started on the medical profession. While this is canada, thus prepaid with our tax money, our medical system is now based on reducing cost and life is secondary. We've had to DIY our medical care for our youngest daughter, SMA type 1 (with the free advice over phone and Internet from very helpful American doctors) ask your pediatrician daughter if it would be advisable to reduce the ventilation pressures of your seven year old to less than she was at 6 months old...they've been trying everything they can since we declined their offer of an overdose of fentanyl at 6 months...

So that wild segue just illustrates your quality of life is directly related to your understanding of your situation. Yes your friend was right about the medical profession, and your personal understanding affects your outcomes even to the point of life and death.

Back to sprinters...thank you for sharing your knowledge on the forum, and thanks for running an honest shop...any Mexican mechanics you can send to Canada, they're welcome, they can move in right next door to me in fact :laughing:

Don't take my posts as an attack, it's just a reflection of the service industry here, there are so many crooks even the honest ones had to start stealing to survive
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
Brokecanadian said:
Don't get me started on the medical profession. While this is canada, thus prepaid with our tax money, our medical system is now based on reducing cost and life is secondary. We've had to DIY our medical care for our youngest daughter, SMA type 1 (with the free advice over phone and Internet from very helpful American doctors) ask your pediatrician daughter if it would be advisable to reduce the ventilation pressures of your seven year old to less than she was at 6 months old...they've been trying everything they can since we declined their offer of an overdose of fentanyl at 6 months...

So that wild segue just illustrates your quality of life is directly related to your understanding of your situation. Yes your friend was right about the medical profession, and your personal understanding affects your outcomes even to the point of life and death.

Back to sprinters...thank you for sharing your knowledge on the forum, and thanks for running an honest shop...any Mexican mechanics you can send to Canada, they're welcome, they can move in right next door to me in fact :laughing:

Don't take my posts as an attack, it's just a reflection of the service industry here, there are so many crooks even the honest ones had to start stealing to survive
Click to expand...
I will send her an email on your daughter. Maybe she (Lauren-- Lolo I call her) may have some answers.
Lastly I don't take it as attack on the contrary.
From my perspective if you run the shop right and do good honest work you get referrals and those are the best adverting in the world.
Besides you don't have to resort to crooked business practices to make a profits in this MV business.
Basically of the 100 % customer potential base 80% of customers just want an honest job done; 20% of the "80" are the cream puffs who don't question the costs.
Of the last 20 %, you the business owner need to calculate how much time you are going to expend to get their business, as they are price shoppers who are lost and waste time!
The other is the "2.5% remaining sector who are just crazy!
But fun to deal with--if you have the time!:lol:
Cheers Dennis
 
M

MeRob

Member
It's a digital, environmental and politically driven Zoo out there. The old phrase "A fool and his money are soon parted..." is still valid. It's the change of the definition of a fool to that of being a non-techie... that is concerning.
 
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Psynk

New member
Well, I'm glad you all had a chance to vent about the world of medicine and repair shops owned by Dewey, Screwem, and How :). Now back to my turbo....

Lots of great advice, and I'll continue my research and examination of the vehicle before I go to the shop. It's a shop I trust, though they're probably not experts on Sprinters. At least I'm now 100% confident that the problem is NOT the turbo itself.

Drove 190 miles home last night and for the first 160 miles, I only lost the turbo once. I kept my foot as light on the pedal as possible and didn't push it on the way up the bridges. The pulsating sound of rushing air under the hood continued all the way. I did a long coast to a toll booth and as I came out of the booth and lightly accelerated, the rushing air sound went away and the vehicle was completely back to normal. When we hit town, I tried jamming the accelerator a few times to get the turbo to fail and it didn't. Crap! Now I have nothing to diagnose. So, maybe it cleared itself, but I'll still spent the next couple of days examining the engine compartment.

Again, thanks for the advice and research tips. If I come up with anything, I'll post it. Happy Memorial Day to all you non-Canadians.
 
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220629

Well-known member
Too many of the Sprinter Garrett turbochargers are replaced only to find that the problems persist.

Your turbo cut-out during acceleration is classic for a charge air system leak, but it can be other things too (EGR?). A scan may be helpful, or may reveal nothing. It is not unusual for these lower level LHM events to not trigger a DTC or MIL aka CEL.

As has been suggested, check very closely for air leaks. A cracked hose or plastic part can remain closed until a certain system pressure is attained under hard(er) acceleration. That triggers the LHM which reduces the system pressure which means the leak "heals" for subsequent re-start.

Check that all the hoses are properly in place and hose clamps are tight.

Your NAS aka NAFTA 2007 does have a turbo resonator.

There are different levels of LHM.

Aqua Puttana said:
I don't agree with that statement at all. There are levels of LHM.


There are different levels of LHM.

Aqua Puttana said:
My personal method of determining whether there is a computer set LHM.

Sometimes the computer isn't involved with low power situations. There are many levels of LHM. The test I feel applies is this:

Lower forms of LHM or Emergency Running Mode.
After having not made any repairs or alterations, if your normal operation and power returns after a simple shutdown and restart then whether you have an MIL (aka CEL) lit or not, the computer was involved in limiting the power. In most cases the symptoms will eventually return.

Additonal Info:

More severe forms of LHM.
If a shutdown/restart doesn't return operation to normal and you have a MIL (aka CEL) lit then the computer is likely set an LHM which requires (correcting the problem) clearing the codes with a scan tool.

Limited to one forward gear (likely 2nd) and reverse gear.
The most severe level of LHM. This form of LHM is often related to transmission problems. Even after the problem(s) is found and corrected, to return to normal operation this LHM generally requires reset by a scan tool capable of communication with the Transmission Control Module TCM.

As an aside. There is a computer/module response to transmission/drive train problems which doesn't allow any forward gears. I don't consider that a Limp Home Mode or Emergency Running Mode because it doesn't even let you limp.

It is not uncommon for LHM to be set with no MIL Malfunction Indicator Light aka CEL Check Engine Light being triggered. For some faults to trigger the MIL aka CEL the fault needs to present itself twice in a row for the light to come on. A possibility is that in the case of some LHM events a key off and key on cycle negates that criteria. The fault isn't present when the key is turned back on. Then the fault returns when the engine operating conditions are such that the problem returns to again set LHM. Therefore the computer(s) never detects the fault twice in succession.

vic

Some more info is here. It will start you at Post #13 where I have some documentation for support of the levels of LHM theory.

LHM Limp Home Mode Experiment

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=217266#post217266

vic
Click to expand...
As always, clicking on the blue arrow icon within any quote box will take you to the original post/threads should you want to find more information.

I provide documentation and support for my LHM theories. I welcome opposing views with similar supporting documentation.
Click to expand...

vic
 
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sailquik

sailquik

Well-known member
Psynk,
Have you cleaned your MAP sensor?
This could be a simple sensor nearly out of tolerance issue.
Most of us still think you may have a small leak somewhere in the pressurized
turbo hoses, charge air cooler, MAP sensor/chamber/box.
Your turbocharger is definitely working, and probably working normally, until you load up
the MAP pressure and the leak off puts the MAP pressure and the fueling rate out of tolerance.
The sensors tell the ECM that there is an issue with the fueling rate and the turbo boost rate
so it goes into some form of LHM.
Have you double checked all the hose fittings and hose clamps?
The "rushing air sound" is a fairly clear indication that the boost pressure developed by your
turbocharger is somehow escaping.
You really need to go over every inch of all of the hoses, manually palpating the hose itself to
detect any soft spots. Also look for any oil spots on the outside of the hose that do not have
any oil sources adjacent.
There is a small amount of oil inside the turbo system (normal leakoff from the turbo seals)
and since the inside of the hose is under ~30+ PSIA (15-16 PSIG) it will push the oil out where
ever there is a leak in the hose or at any of the joints.
Hope this helps,
Roger
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
The answer to your problem is simple, I will be blunt! I am doing Trump Stump here !
Get a scanner on it that will give you live data.
Get to know what the figures are supposed to be!
Carl (Sprintguy) on another post even went to the trouble of posting figures on these forums ( Gawd bless him!)

This is just a German designed bloody van its not Rocket Science!

Stop fannying around with a Sherlock Holmes spyglass under the engine cover--time to get grubby and dirty finger nails!
Failing that !
If there is a whooshing noise as you state, do an old fashioned stall test on the engine and you will locate the problem!

If you don't know how to do a simple stall test--Ask!

Frankly your problem is a lack of knowledge and tools!
Dennis
Mechanic
 
2

220629

Well-known member
sailquik said:
Vic,
Actually, the 2007 and later NAFTA OM-642 3.0 liter V6 engines do have a turbo resonator!
It's located on top of the left bank valve cover.
It has a much lower failure rate than the OM-647 5 cylinder OEM turbo resonators but there have
been a few with issues, mostly loose fittings and bad O'rings as I recall, but it's still plastic and can develop leaks.
Roger
Click to expand...
:idunno:

I posted...

Aqua Puttana said:
...

Your NAS aka NAFTA 2007 does have a turbo resonator.
...
Click to expand...
Lacking fancy scan tools, my first checks would be the hoses and clamps as I mentioned above.

The whooshing noise coming and going...

I have seen where short loose hoses will pop partly off. When the pressure is reduced by LHM kicking in the short hose has enough "elastic push" to re-seat the hose over the fitting.

Just something to check.

vic
 
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