2013 NOX sensors failed, dealer wants $1400

My 2013 3500 has less than 50k miles and it went in for a failed DEF tank heater today and I just got the call that the 2 NOX sensors are bad.... $1300 and some change. Not covered under warranty.

Can an Indy do this job or does it require a dealer expertise?

What have you guys done?

TIA

Ted

Did you check the emission warranty?

George.

If you do not get warranty coverage for this, which is absolutely an emissions related component, please post the reasons given, as it appears to be a fairly common issue and many others have been replaced under warranty which should be good up to 5 years or 100k miles in the US, not so sure here in Canada.

Yes, look at your warranty manual... emission-related things should be for 70,000 miles (i think). (i don't have an NCV3's manual)
(glow plugs are emission-related, too...)

--dick

For info there is a factory re-flash for the NOx sensors which is designed to reduce condensation and subsequent cracking of the ceramic body of the sensor(s).

The dealer chains are keeping a bit "mum" on this but press the dealer on this issue affecting the CD16 engine management system.

I learned about this from MB UK about 9 months ago but the MB USA it seems is dragging its feet on catch up.
I pressed a local dealer recently about it, presenting an "affected" customer's van to the service writer--who acted like Manuel the waiter from Fawlty Towers UK comedy act!
However
I did emerge out the other side with two new sensors and a re-flash done!
Don't ask no questions and no pack drill was the response!
All covered under warranty!

See if you can get the same done
Dennis
PS
For you "philistines" who don't know of Basil of Fawlty Towers fame, here is a glimpse of zany comedy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-oH-TELcLE

The way I read it.

Pg. 15; Federal Emission Warranty: VIII. Engine Emissions Control Systems/Sensors: NOx Sensor is covered 5yr. 100,000 mi.

http://assets.mbvans.com/Mercedes-B...16-MB-Sprinter-Service-and-Warranty-Guide.pdf

I got mine replaced under warranty. It took two trips for the diagnosis. Not sure if it was one or both.


2014 LTV Unity MB on 2013 Sprinter

Thank you everyone!! I found my 2013 Warranty Service Manual in PDF form and sent the dealer service rep the oage that says clearly the NOx sensors are covered under the emissions warranty. 2 hours later i get the call. "We miss keyed the service request using the wrong part number and thats why it was denied. Our bad, its covered". ��. I dont think it would have been if i hadnt pushed back with proof.

Thank you for helping me save $1400

Ted

"Oh, OK, You caught us trying to rip you off, our bad"

Yes that's exactly right. They got caught! This is the second time I've had an issue with this dealer and caught them being less than upfront. The last time they serviced my van, when it pulled up I noticed a golf ball sized dent on the rear above the wheel well... When asked they hemmed and hawed but took responsibility and offered to exchange my $1200 service invoice with me getting the dent fixed. The repair was $800 so I made out but if I hadn't noticed before pulling off the lot, it would have been my problem and out $2000.

It's a sad truth but with a few rare exceptions the only person who really cares whether your vehicle gets fixed properly and for the right price is you.

When I worked for one manufacturer I had a desk job of assisting technically a dealer audit.
The guy I worked with was a Columbo type character but a whizz at forensic audits.

We would hit a series of dealers in a territory who made the top ten rogues list.
One big glaring audit gaff was charging the customer for a bone fide warranty then double dipping and doing a claim on the factory.

Done so often it stood out like a sore thumb if simply auditing 3 months worth of records.
I confess I used to like watching the smarmy general manager squirm when 60 month debit was presented.

Dennis

That's what I was thinking. Charge me for the repair and hit MB for the warranty. Must happen all the time.

The odd thing was they warranted my wheel sensor that had failed, it was like, hey we are warranting your wheel sensor but we can't your NOx, you should be happy.

I think in the real world we call that kind of behavior "stealing".

Gary

HMR TYM said:

Yes that's exactly right. They got caught! This is the second time I've had an issue with this dealer and caught them being less than upfront. The last time they serviced my van, when it pulled up I noticed a golf ball sized dent on the rear above the wheel well... When asked they hemmed and hawed but took responsibility and offered to exchange my $1200 service invoice with me getting the dent fixed. The repair was $800 so I made out but if I hadn't noticed before pulling off the lot, it would have been my problem and out $2000.

Click to expand...

Used to live in Wilmington at Brunswick Forest...! Curious..did you take it to the Bob King MB?; IF so, they're the worst in regard to fixing Sprinters. Only one guy had basic experience for our 2010 MB Sprinter Roadtrek. After a few NOx sensor replacements under warranty and still was not solving the problem I went all the way to Sun Motors MB in Mechaniscburg, PA where the annual MB Sprinter fest is held. This place has 7 Sprinter bays and their technicians are the best, bar none. Yep, it's a long drive..stayed overnight.



cheers...

Mein Sprinter said:

Used to live in Wilmington at Brunswick Forest...! Curious..did you take it to the Bob King MB?; IF so, they're the worst in regard to fixing Sprinters. Only one guy had basic experience for our 2010 MB Sprinter Roadtrek. After a few NOx sensor replacements under warranty and still was not solving the problem I went all the way to Sun Motors MB in Mechaniscburg, PA where the annual MB Sprinter fest is held. This place has 7 Sprinter bays and their technicians are the best, bar none. Yep, it's a long drive..stayed overnight.



cheers...

Click to expand...

Yeah they're the worst

lindenengineering said:

I confess I used to like watching the smarmy general manager squirm when 60 month debit was presented.

Click to expand...

Think of the brand (not dealer) loyalty that would have been generated by also requiring them to refund the customer's bill, too (to the customer, or to the manufacturer for forwarding thereto).

--dick

The dealer in mention is trying to be a major Sprinter center. They hired a "Sprinter/Metris" specialist and in the 2 months he has been there, they've sold 25. Compared to 2 last year. Bought one from them today. A 2015 Grey/white 3500 high top with a bunch of driver assists and pass comfort. Tinted windows all the way around, 4cyl / 7 spd, HD axles, tow package, 11k GVW. 6 year/ 150k miles with prepaid maintain. $51k.

I receive it in a week and will post a thread on it.

autostaretx said:

Think of the brand (not dealer) loyalty that would have been generated by also requiring them to refund the customer's bill, too (to the customer, or to the manufacturer for forwarding thereto).

--dick

Click to expand...

Dick
Now that would be admitting fraud, hence best kept quiet!~.
I think from the post submissions it simply reinforces my oft statement that a dealer is only as good as the folk that work within it!
In mitigation of a dealers position I have to mention that we fixed a 2103 2500 Sprinter with the count downs on and the DEF light on.

Doing a reset of the SCR and DEF system didn't work. Well correction the count down went away but the DEF light stayed on
Using the latest program with Autologic we could see the NOx system sensor was inoperative yet the scanner told us there was full circuitry flow. Yet no activity seen in the PCM . Changing a $450 component gave little resolution. System voltage was 13,6 volts.
Now trying all sorts of things we hooked the battery up to a charger and with 14.2 volts into the blasted system, it came to life and we cleared it all out!

This simply for us reiterates the problem of communication on Sprinters, and the lengths that have to be gone through with professional scan tools to make the modules talk to one another from time to time. The DEF system seems to be particularly prone to problems such as this from our experience.
Now if it was a Toyota or a Landrover? Well nuff said!
I mention this because the 2006 Landrover LR3 we fixed over the weekend had a very serious transmission /transfer case, air suspension and auto parking brake communication problem. The Ford IDS based scan program quickly gave us the area to investigate and it was fixed in 30 minutes by repair on a sensor wire connected to the T Case .

Now if we go back and look at HYR TYM's post could it be that the dealer made an assessment saying behind closed doors that this is going to be an acid bath!????
Under warranty we are going to get paid warranty rates to chase down an errant problem AND we can't get full shop time reimbursement to go fannying around with a system that has bad communication and communication issues !

So lets see if the owner will stand the repair?
At $1400 hundred it will cover the fix costs.
So roughly from $1400 quote extract the sensor at $450 and we have a balance of $950 for labor.
Taking a dealer rate of $150/hr we come up with a six hours labor rate estimate and add some tax and you get a $1400 bill.
Now with our shop special we spent about 4.5 hours fannying around with this particular DEF system! So the system repair without taking a warranty into account is probably about right!
Dennis

HMR TYM said:

Thank you for helping me save $1400

Ted

Click to expand...

Why would it cost so much to replace a couple of sensors?