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View Full Version : Sprinter P2225 DTC, Transmission Swap


Pilot-PJ
11-09-2015, 06:21 PM
Ok I bought an auction Sprinter (195K miles). I got in cheap and any parts I put in are insurance (things that I know are fixed and not about to break on the road), so while I might end up spending the same amount of money to get my sprinter running, at least I know what Iíve got. Forums like this are pure gold in terms of fixing problems and optimizing solutions. Iíve eliminated many issues and have great confidence in my Sprinter based on the info Iíve gotten here. (Blackdeath, leaking injectors, etcÖ). So thank you all for that.

That said the transmission has been giving me fits. I got the P2225 code. Here is what Iíve done;

Changed the fluid and filter, cleaned the pan (magnet was missing so I added a new one)

Changed the conductor plate and plug cleaned off the outside of the valve body. Cleaned all the wireing and the plug itself. (no evidence of wicking beyond a few inches. The wiring inside the van and TCM are clean)

Tested all the wiring from the TCM to the plug (resistance from the connector to the plug and from wire to wire).

Hooked up a oscilloscope and verified Iím getting 5 volts into the sensors, and a square wave out of N3 and N2.

The van goes in to LHM right away, I donít get out of first. Then at the first stop it shifts into second and locks there (just as one would expect). If I clear the code, start the engine and then cycle the shifter between R and D it goes into LHM.
At this point Iím looking at changing the TCM and/or the transmission. This leads me to three questions.
1) Are there any other tests I should run? Solenoid Ohms?
2) Can I get a used sprinter TCM on ebay and just plug it in?
3) Can I just get a used W5A580 from a Challenger or Charger and change over the bellhousings? I get that the clutches and Torque converter lockup points could be a little different but if thatís the case can I just use the TCM from the donor vehicle? The sprinter might drive a little differently but I never load mine anyway. (itís a 10 passenger van for a 5 person familyÖ) Would a Charger TCM be totally incompatible with the Sprinter ECM?

Iím very interested in specifics on why, not hearsay, on why not I can use a W5A580. For the $500 bucks for a low mileage Chrysler transmission vs $2,300 for a Silver Star Re-Manufacture, it seems like it might be a fair roll of the dice if no one has tried beforeÖ

Iím very against any company that holds the money youíve already spent on their product as a hostageÖ ďyou wouldnít want to risk a $5K transmission to save a few hundred dollars on Transmission Fluid? Would you?Ē. I love the Internet and forums like this as they can unlock the talent and experience of the people for the people.

Aqua Puttana
11-09-2015, 08:13 PM
I didn't see anywhere that you mentioned accessing the TCM to reset the trouble codes aka DTC's. You need a Sprinter specific scan tool which can communicate with the TCM and reset the codes there.

A generic scan tool may have revealed transmission DTC's and even showed them to be reset, but those are likely ECM companion codes to the TCM.

You are in a higher level of computer set LHM. Until you properly reset the TCM DTC's the computer(s) will not be aware care that any problems have been corrected.

vic

vanski
11-09-2015, 08:35 PM
Per Vic.. I just helped a guy out and we went through the entire process you went through; Conductor plate, checked for whicking, etc..

At the end of the day (following the root problem of the conductor plate going bad) we had to clear the code with a DAD (Sprinter Specific Software) from within the transmission module to ensure the problem went away.

Pilot-PJ
11-09-2015, 09:36 PM
Iím using AutoEnginuity (as I have it for my ford and BMW it seemed natural to add the MB pack) with the Mercedes-Benz unlock to clear the codes. I would think that should do it. Maybe itís not? Is there some way I could tell?

I havenít taken a care to a shop in 15 years, my level of trust has eroded over the years. I saw that Sprinter Expert does rebuilds reasonably and is very close to me. I would hope he is the kind of guy that would at least clear the codes and check that firstÖ Then again 'hope' is not a plan... Other then buying DAD is there anyway of checking?

jmoller99
11-09-2015, 09:43 PM
Generic ODBII reader will not allow you to reset Sprinter T1N transmission errors after you have corrected the problem (you may also have transmission fluid wicking into the TCM under the drivers seat that you will need to deal with first). You have to have a special Sprinter friendly ODBII tool (like a DAD or DRBIII from the dealer) to reset these errors. I know some shops have ODBII readers that can also do this (but they are high end/expensive units that someone who works on vehicles for a living has no issues spending $1000 or more for).

Find someone with a DAD to help (and don't ask to borrow it - I would never loan mine out).

Grizzly Adams
11-09-2015, 10:04 PM
Use this (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16982) to find someone with a proper scan tool near you. Vanski helped me figure out my issue and all we had to do was use his DAD to clear the TCM code (P2225) :cheers:. I had been clearing the CDI Engine modlue code, but all that did was leave me in LHM and turn off the CEL :bash:.

Aqua Puttana
11-09-2015, 10:16 PM
I’m using AutoEnginuity ...
I believe that there are Autoenginuity models which can access the TCM.

That said, even if it can access the TCM you may need to go into the TCM area and clear the TCM codes specifically. A global reset of the DTC's may not be hitting (all?) the TCM DTC's and clearing them.

For certain, the codes need to be properly cleared even when the repairs are effective.

:2cents: vic

Pilot-PJ
11-09-2015, 10:29 PM
I've read every transmission post twice! I never suspected my Autoenginuity! I will go back and re-read those posts. It seems like the trans is in lockdown right after I 'clear' it. That lines up with clearing the MIL but not the TCM...

I've got over $1k in the Autoenginuity... I wouldn't call it generic (although it might not be getting the job done... Cost of the tool doesn't equal appropriate application of the tool!)

sprintguy
11-09-2015, 10:51 PM
can you access the TCM with the scan tool?? specifically what codes are present, #'s are one thing but the nomenclature tells the tail.



Carl

sprintguy
11-09-2015, 11:02 PM
Ok. I just looked up your code, It looks like you were just scanning the engine controller. That code is for the transmission speed sensors, It is a generic to the CDI3 unit (engine module) If the TCM codes are not cleared the vehicle will stay in LHM , also note that if the rear ABS wheel speed sensors are acting up The transmission module may put the vehicle into LHM with speed sensor type codes, but you would also have codes in the ABS/ESP module .
What happens by not clearing the TCM codes and data is that the module holds the n3 or n2 speed senor values at a default which is 30000 RPM until the code is cleared, unless there is an issue with the logic in the controller. judgeing by what you have wrote so far, the trans goes directly into LHM and sets the same code in the engine module?? Or do you have to drive until the first gear change ?


Carl

Pilot-PJ
11-09-2015, 11:21 PM
When I 'clear' the codes and drive it, it starts in first and stays in first until the first stop. At the first stop it shifts into second and then starts off in second. I haven't driven it much as the tires were rotting. I just got 5 new ones on so I will try to get into the TCM and clear the codes tonight. I'll capture the verbiage as well...

sprintguy
11-09-2015, 11:31 PM
If the trans, only goes into LHM after thr first 1-2 shift then that is an indication that you still have an issue or that the codes need to be cleared to get the TCM to read the sensor not put in a value. oh and by the way, you can swap TCM's from one vehicle to another.


Carl

Pilot-PJ
11-10-2015, 04:40 AM
Thank you all for you're help! I looked closer at my Autoenginuity as it was running a scan of all the modules but sort of hangs on Transmission (but then moves on without any sort of notification at the end). When I try to isolate just the transmission module, communication fails (but I can talk to each of the other modules one-at-a-time, just not the transmission) . I don't know if the issue is with the Autoenginuity or with the TCM...

What sucks is I'm running out of time (I live in CA were I have to have a smog to Register the vehicle, and part of that test is hooking it up to the 'OBD' connector. I guess I'm going to bite the bullet and take it in to an independent and see what he comes up with. His rebuild is disarmingly low but he has good reviews on this forum... Once it's running then I will play with the TCM more.

sprintguy
11-10-2015, 03:35 PM
When the tool hangs up on the TCM cycle the ignition switch off then on again slowly , sometimes the TCM will not wake after it has been on for a bit. If that does not work start and run the vehicle and try to access that way.



Carl

Pilot-PJ
11-11-2015, 04:24 AM
Anatoliy hooked his MB StarScan up to my van and it couldn't talk to the TCM. He put a different TCM in the van and that TCM couldn't talk to the StarScan either. The TCM has power and the sensors seem to function. I left the van with him to dig further. As the rebuild is so reasonable that looks like the place to start. While it might not be the root cause, given the brown mud that came out, the rebuild will give me piece of mind on longer trips. (At least if something does happen I will not have to kick myself).

I'll report back in a few days. I also hope to start a longer post about my auction to family hauler build...

Aqua Puttana
11-11-2015, 11:08 AM
Changing out the transmission may make sense for other reasons, but my guess is it may not be the root problem for no communication with the TCM via K-line.

Do you have any aftermarket devices connected to the Sprinter? There is some history of those affecting scan tool communication.

Does the TCM connector at either end show signs of being wet from transmission fluid? That has history of affecting operation/communication also.

Does the vehicle OBDII connector show signs of corrosion or bent pins? There have been reports of windshield area or other water leaks causing problems.

:2cents: vic

sprintguy
11-11-2015, 04:13 PM
Again, if the SDS is being used.. most of the time the TCM / EGS will not be picked up during the quick test, you have to go into control units and follow the procedure sometimes it may even take a few times to get there.


Carl

Pilot-PJ
11-12-2015, 06:53 AM
The transmission looks to be all sensors and electrical solenoids (resistance). In simple terms, "downstream" things that can't affect communication. The connectors and TCM were clean, no sine of fluid. There were clear signs of some one else digging around in there.

I bought it at auction two weeks ago, so I have no idea of its history. It could even have a tune and I wouldn't know it.

There's no evidence of rust anywhere. It came from the Fontana California area, which is been particularly dry over the last few years. It seems to have lived it's whole life in southern California.

There could be bent pins, is it definitely seems to be some sort of wiring issue/electrical issue. I'll let the expert figure it out and report back.

Pilot-PJ
11-12-2015, 07:01 AM
I get what your saying Carl. Both with the Autoenginuity and the StarScan couldn't pick up the TCM. We tried the on position, slow on, and running, both in "all modules" and while getting in the back way (as Anatoliy would say) and no way no how the TCM would be heard.

riskydnb
11-12-2015, 12:19 PM
id use the xentry dad program. Besides that I have used and new TCMs for sale and a rebuilt torque converter, the fact that there wasnt a magnet prob means theres a ton of metal in that tranny...if interested in parts call me @ 760-622-0148 -Randy

sprintguy
11-12-2015, 03:46 PM
Can I get everyone on the tis forum straight.. Mercedes Benz diagnostic aid ie scanner is called a SDS 2 different systems, T1N = DAS (diagnostic assistants system) used from 2002-2013
2014 to present MB system is SDS running Xentry program.

Now Chrysler used 2002-2006 DRBIII ... 2007-2009 Chrysler used the Starscan, Star mobile etc.

Just trying to get the terminology correct.

Make sure all powers are present at the controller both battery circuits and ignition circuit, also make sure the TCM is turning the relay on .. there should be more than 1 ground If I remember correctly.

Carl

long1pham
11-22-2015, 03:16 PM
I get what your saying Carl. Both with the Autoenginuity and the StarScan couldn't pick up the TCM. We tried the on position, slow on, and running, both in "all modules" and while getting in the back way (as Anatoliy would say) and no way no how the TCM would be heard.

I have a Launch 123 scanner in Orange County that can read the Sprinter TCU. Please let me know if you still need help. Long/949-500-9887