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View Full Version : Help trouble shooting 04 2500 please!


W.adam.s
10-17-2015, 04:41 AM
Hello all,

I have a newly acquired 04 dodge 2500 that is giving me head aches.

The van will hold 110kph (68mph) fine on a flat hight way but will drop down to 90kph(55mph) when climbing hills and feel vary sluggish and as thow it should shift down. When back on flat it will slowly bould speed back up.

I started to try and trouble shoot the turbo following this site.

http://www.mercedes.gen.in/WP35/mercedes-sprinter-turbo-limp-home-los-diagnosis-fault-finding/

But have have hit a bump or am just lost.

When reving the van the rod appears not to be moving lime they say will in the first part. I am also not getting a load air sound.

What is my next step? Am I heading the right way? Any info,words of wisdom or tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Adam

sailquik
10-17-2015, 05:22 AM
Adam,
If your Sprinter is indeed a 2004, and you are in the USA or have the OM-647 5 cylinder turbo diesel
engine, then you picked the wrong trouble shooting info.
Your 2004 has an electronic turbo vane control actuator.
The troubleshooting info you selected is for a 2002-2003 OM612 5 cylinder engine with the vacuum powered
turbo vane control actuator.
Where are you located?
You may have a turbo actuator problem, but then again you could just as well have a simple boost leak at
one of the hose joints, or a burst hose.
Any sort of boost/MAP pressure leak will put your Sprinter into Limp Home Mode (LHM) and when it's in LHM,
the main engine management computer (the ECM or Electronic Control Module) will shut your turbocharger actuator
off.
See if you can find someone near you with a Scan Gauge II (or better still a DAD diagnostic unit).
Check with your local auto parts store to see if they have a diagnostic tool that will measure the Manifold Absolute
Pressure or Turbo Boost Pressure.
Then take a short drive in your Sprinter and depending on what boost pressure you see it may be possible to make
a more in the clear diagnosis.
If you have no boost pressure (MAP) at all, then you either have a major boost leak, or the electronic actuator is
not working.
You can purchase a rebuilt electronic actuator in a few places, but before you do, you need to make sure the linkage
to your turbo is operating freely, that the bell crank lever on the turbo operates freely.
The electronic actuator cannot exert much force, so if the linkage is stuck or sticky, or the vane ring in the turbocharger
isn't rotating freely, the actuator cannot regulate the boost pressure correctly.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Boatman
10-18-2015, 03:50 AM
FWIW...I just went through the same issue with no boost pressure. ..... In my case the O2 sensor was faulty.

W.adam.s
10-20-2015, 10:59 PM
FWIW...I just went through the same issue with no boost pressure. ..... In my case the O2 sensor was faulty.

How did you narrow it down to the sensor?

W.adam.s
10-21-2015, 12:03 AM
Adam,
If your Sprinter is indeed a 2004, and you are in the USA or have the OM-647 5 cylinder turbo diesel
engine, then you picked the wrong trouble shooting info.
Your 2004 has an electronic turbo vane control actuator.
The troubleshooting info you selected is for a 2002-2003 OM612 5 cylinder engine with the vacuum powered
turbo vane control actuator.
Where are you located?
You may have a turbo actuator problem, but then again you could just as well have a simple boost leak at
one of the hose joints, or a burst hose.
Any sort of boost/MAP pressure leak will put your Sprinter into Limp Home Mode (LHM) and when it's in LHM,
the main engine management computer (the ECM or Electronic Control Module) will shut your turbocharger actuator
off.
See if you can find someone near you with a Scan Gauge II (or better still a DAD diagnostic unit).
Check with your local auto parts store to see if they have a diagnostic tool that will measure the Manifold Absolute
Pressure or Turbo Boost Pressure.
Then take a short drive in your Sprinter and depending on what boost pressure you see it may be possible to make
a more in the clear diagnosis.
If you have no boost pressure (MAP) at all, then you either have a major boost leak, or the electronic actuator is
not working.
You can purchase a rebuilt electronic actuator in a few places, but before you do, you need to make sure the linkage
to your turbo is operating freely, that the bell crank lever on the turbo operates freely.
The electronic actuator cannot exert much force, so if the linkage is stuck or sticky, or the vane ring in the turbocharger
isn't rotating freely, the actuator cannot regulate the boost pressure correctly.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Thanks for the info I am from the east cost of Canada.
What's the best way to

make sure the linkage
to your turbo is operating freely, that the bell crank lever on the turbo operates freely?

Adam

NetDoc
10-21-2015, 12:43 AM
I had the same symptoms and I traced it down to a bad EGR valve. Did you pull codes???

Boatman
10-21-2015, 02:07 AM
How did you narrow it down to the sensor?


Fault code showed it was the O2 sensor.

W.adam.s
10-23-2015, 02:30 AM
The plot thickens.
We out for a drive and the the can was running hot!
Could this be another clue? I tried looking for post with this in comen but could not find any.

Trying to get mely hands on a scaner that will work with the van.

I have seen lots if videos of people attaching compressors to the turbo lines and lissing for leeks can I do this on the sprinter system?

W.adam.s
10-23-2015, 02:31 AM
I had the same symptoms and I traced it down to a bad EGR valve. Did you pull codes???

Still trying to find a reader that will work.

sailquik
10-23-2015, 03:26 AM
Adam,
Best way to see if your turbocharger electronic actuator is to disconnect the ball and socket joint on the end of the
bell crank that sticks forward out of the hot side (the rearmost cast iron chamber in the turbocharger).
You can turn the bell crank and see if it rotates freely.
Might want to squirt of spray a little high temp lube or something like Liquid Wrench on it to ensure it operates
very freely.
You can gently (very gently) push pull on the link that extends up from the electronic actuator and ensure that it's
free to move as well.
After getting both components lubricated, reassemble the ball and socket joint and start your engine.
The bell crank should rotate quite a bit ( I forget which way up or down) but it will open the vanes then settle back
to regulate the boost level.
If the bell crank rotates the settles back, your actuator is probably working as it should.
Hope this helps,
Roger

W.adam.s
10-25-2015, 06:18 PM
Adam,
Best way to see if your turbocharger electronic actuator is to disconnect the ball and socket joint on the end of the
bell crank that sticks forward out of the hot side (the rearmost cast iron chamber in the turbocharger).
You can turn the bell crank and see if it rotates freely.
Might want to squirt of spray a little high temp lube or something like Liquid Wrench on it to ensure it operates
very freely.
You can gently (very gently) push pull on the link that extends up from the electronic actuator and ensure that it's
free to move as well.
After getting both components lubricated, reassemble the ball and socket joint and start your engine.
The bell crank should rotate quite a bit ( I forget which way up or down) but it will open the vanes then settle back
to regulate the boost level.
If the bell crank rotates the settles back, your actuator is probably working as it should.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Thank for the info I had a look at it this morning but was was uunable to discontent the parts any tips. And and working on the right part. Am I trying to discont the part in the centre if the photo.

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae359/akiy360/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151016_221611_zps3zno07tb.jpg (http://s987.photobucket.com/user/akiy360/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151016_221611_zps3zno07tb.jpg.html)

Adam

sailquik
10-25-2015, 06:52 PM
Adam,
Yes, that the linkage you need to check.
Just from your photo, everything in that area looks totally "dryed out" due to the heat generated
by the hot side of the turbo.
First thing to do would be to lube the linkage and the pivot/shaft for the bellcrank with something like
TC-11 or Liquid Wrench that will penetrate and free up any "stickiness" in the joint on the end of the
bell crank lever. Also make sure that the link down to the electronic actuator (not in your photo, but at the
other end of the link that shows on the outer end of your bell crank lever.
Hope this helps,
Roger

W.adam.s
10-25-2015, 07:12 PM
Adam,
Yes, that the linkage you need to check.
Just from your photo, everything in that area looks totally "dryed out" due to the heat generated
by the hot side of the turbo.
First thing to do would be to lube the linkage and the pivot/shaft for the bellcrank with something like
TC-11 or Liquid Wrench that will penetrate and free up any "stickiness" in the joint on the end of the
bell crank lever. Also make sure that the link down to the electronic actuator (not in your photo, but at the
other end of the link that shows on the outer end of your bell crank lever.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Is it a c clamp? How dose one go about discontenting it?

Gwadmit
10-27-2015, 01:44 AM
Hi sorry if I'm doing this wrong. This is my first post. So I have a 2006 2500 and I have a low boost code. I narrowed it down to the linkage not moving so I removed the e clip and the bell crank moves freely but the linkage doesn't budge. Then when I turn the key to start the van in aux it clicks back and forth a bit when disconnected from the bell crank and when I start the van it goes all the way to the side heat shield. When it's connected to the bell crank it doesn't move and advice would be great thanks

sailquik
10-27-2015, 03:10 AM
Adam,
As Gwadmit suggests, it's a small E type C Clip.
Gwadmit, you might want to look for a rebuilt electronic actuator assembly.
Probably no need to replace both the turbo and the actuator, but that's the only way
most dealers will do it.
Look online for an actuator with the same part number as the one on your 2006 T1N with the
OM-647 engne.
http://www.turbochargerpros.com/parts/41-90001_R.html
Looks like $695.00 but your core is worth $400 so < $300 for a rebuilt/tested actuator.
Only way to get away cheaper would be to buy a used actuator from a wrecking yard, but you never
know what your getting on electrical/electronic parts and the won't take them back.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Gwadmit
10-27-2015, 10:22 AM
Thank you roger. How hard is it to remove the actuator. I've been looking for a write up on the removal with no luck thanks so much again

W.adam.s
11-05-2015, 12:50 AM
Update. Bad actuator. Any one have one for sale?

W.adam.s
11-06-2015, 04:33 PM
Adam,
Best way to see if your turbocharger electronic actuator is to disconnect the ball and socket joint on the end of the
bell crank that sticks forward out of the hot side (the rearmost cast iron chamber in the turbocharger).
You can turn the bell crank and see if it rotates freely.
Might want to squirt of spray a little high temp lube or something like Liquid Wrench on it to ensure it operates
very freely.
You can gently (very gently) push pull on the link that extends up from the electronic actuator and ensure that it's
free to move as well.
After getting both components lubricated, reassemble the ball and socket joint and start your engine.
The bell crank should rotate quite a bit ( I forget which way up or down) but it will open the vanes then settle back
to regulate the boost level.
If the bell crank rotates the settles back, your actuator is probably working as it should.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Roger,

Question that might be obvious but I am new and trying to learn. Had the van into a macanic who to read codes and diagnos the issue for me.

He said that the turbo waste gate actuator is not functioning.

Is this the same as the turbo actuator?

Or is a waste gate a different part?

Sorry if this is a stupid question.

Thanks for you help

W.adam.s
11-21-2015, 02:56 AM
Adam,
Best way to see if your turbocharger electronic actuator is to disconnect the ball and socket joint on the end of the
bell crank that sticks forward out of the hot side (the rearmost cast iron chamber in the turbocharger).
You can turn the bell crank and see if it rotates freely.
Might want to squirt of spray a little high temp lube or something like Liquid Wrench on it to ensure it operates
very freely.
You can gently (very gently) push pull on the link that extends up from the electronic actuator and ensure that it's
free to move as well.
After getting both components lubricated, reassemble the ball and socket joint and start your engine.
The bell crank should rotate quite a bit ( I forget which way up or down) but it will open the vanes then settle back
to regulate the boost level.
If the bell crank rotates the settles back, your actuator is probably working as it should.
Hope this helps,
Roger

hello,

I am looking for some more info if you could help me out.

I had the actuator off and the lower joint was seized. cleaned it up oiled it. At first the bell crank was sticky after some LR it moved freely.

know the bell crank drops down and rises back up when the van is started but dose not move when the van is revved and the van has less power and is know in full lhm it seems.

I am not getting any codes one my ScanGage ii I also have no boost.

so my question is can i further trouble shoot my actuator/ is it toast or should i start looking at other parts of the turbo?

Thanks
Adam

sailquik
11-21-2015, 04:10 AM
Hi Adam,
Sorry, didn't see your pervious post (#18 on 11-6).
To answer the questions asked in that post:
Question that might be obvious but I am new and trying to learn. Had the van into a mechanic who to read codes and diagnose the issue for me.
If the shop had a fully capable Sprinter diagnostic system....this is the best way to determine if you have a turbocharger actuator issue.

He said that the turbo waste gate actuator is not functioning.
He was simply using the wrong term.
A "waste gate" on a turbocharged engine is simply a pressure limiting valve. If the turbocharger develops too much pressure the wastegate
opens and dumps all the pressure that is above the limit/threshold that the valve opens.
There are many turbocharger systems that operate in this manner, but not MB Sprinters.

Is this the same as the turbo actuator?
Not the same, but the same basic function (controlling the turbocharger boost pressure).
Your turbocharger actuator controls the boost level that your engine receives.
The turbocharger actuator is controlled by the main Engine Control Module (ECM), regulating your boost pressure
to match the current load level the sensors say the engine is developing.
When you accelerate, the sensors tell the Engine control module (ECM) to push more fuel to the engine, and to balance
the higher fueling rate, the ECM signals your turbocharger actuator to divert more exhaust flow onto the turbocharger
drive/bucket wheel (the hot side of your turbocharger) so the turbocharger spins up faster, developing more/higher boost
pressure in the driven/cold side of your turbocharger.
There is no "waste gate" on your OM-647, but the turbocharger actuator regulates the turbo boost pressure so that it
does not exceed ~ 37 PSIA (Absolute pressure....above the ambient 14.7 PSIA at sea level). This equates to ~22 PSIG (Gauge pressure,
not taking into consideration ambient atmospheric pressure or altitude).

Or is a waste gate a different part?
Your Sprinter does not have a wastegate.....it does not need one as the turbocharger actuator controls the turbo boost
pressure without a need for a "pop off" valve if the turbo develops more pressure than your engine needs.
If your turbo pressure goes too high, the boost sensor (MAP-Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor) will sense this and
signal the turbocharger actuator to reduce the boost level. If the boost level is not reduced to the proper level, the
ECM will signal a "over boost" condition, and tell the turbocharger actuator to shut your turbocharger OFF.

Sorry if this is a stupid question.
No such thing a stupid question....you didn't know the difference between a turbo actuator and a waste gate.
Now you have a better idea of what they do, how they function to regulate your turbo boost.

On your next question, yes, it sounds like you need a new or rebuilt turbo charger actuator.
Sorry, at the DIY level, the actuator either works....or it doesn't.
Here's a business that sells OM-647 Turbocharger actuators"
http://www.xsboostturbochargers.com/products/dodge-mercedes-sprinter-2-7l-reman-turbocharger-electronic-actuator-2004-2007/
Hope this helps,
Roger

W.adam.s
11-21-2015, 02:50 PM
Hi Adam,
Sorry, didn't see your pervious post (#18 on 11-6).
To answer the questions asked in that post:
Question that might be obvious but I am new and trying to learn. Had the van into a mechanic who to read codes and diagnose the issue for me.
If the shop had a fully capable Sprinter diagnostic system....this is the best way to determine if you have a turbocharger actuator issue.

He said that the turbo waste gate actuator is not functioning.
He was simply using the wrong term.
A "waste gate" on a turbocharged engine is simply a pressure limiting valve. If the turbocharger develops too much pressure the wastegate
opens and dumps all the pressure that is above the limit/threshold that the valve opens.
There are many turbocharger systems that operate in this manner, but not MB Sprinters.

Is this the same as the turbo actuator?
Not the same, but the same basic function (controlling the turbocharger boost pressure).
Your turbocharger actuator controls the boost level that your engine receives.
The turbocharger actuator is controlled by the main Engine Control Module (ECM), regulating your boost pressure
to match the current load level the sensors say the engine is developing.
When you accelerate, the sensors tell the Engine control module (ECM) to push more fuel to the engine, and to balance
the higher fueling rate, the ECM signals your turbocharger actuator to divert more exhaust flow onto the turbocharger
drive/bucket wheel (the hot side of your turbocharger) so the turbocharger spins up faster, developing more/higher boost
pressure in the driven/cold side of your turbocharger.
There is no "waste gate" on your OM-647, but the turbocharger actuator regulates the turbo boost pressure so that it
does not exceed ~ 37 PSIA (Absolute pressure....above the ambient 14.7 PSIA at sea level). This equates to ~22 PSIG (Gauge pressure,
not taking into consideration ambient atmospheric pressure or altitude).

Or is a waste gate a different part?
Your Sprinter does not have a wastegate.....it does not need one as the turbocharger actuator controls the turbo boost
pressure without a need for a "pop off" valve if the turbo develops more pressure than your engine needs.
If your turbo pressure goes too high, the boost sensor (MAP-Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor) will sense this and
signal the turbocharger actuator to reduce the boost level. If the boost level is not reduced to the proper level, the
ECM will signal a "over boost" condition, and tell the turbocharger actuator to shut your turbocharger OFF.

Sorry if this is a stupid question.
No such thing a stupid question....you didn't know the difference between a turbo actuator and a waste gate.
Now you have a better idea of what they do, how they function to regulate your turbo boost.

On your next question, yes, it sounds like you need a new or rebuilt turbo charger actuator.
Sorry, at the DIY level, the actuator either works....or it doesn't.
Here's a business that sells OM-647 Turbocharger actuators"
http://www.xsboostturbochargers.com/products/dodge-mercedes-sprinter-2-7l-reman-turbocharger-electronic-actuator-2004-2007/
Hope this helps,
Roger

Thanks for your help. As I worked one some other jods on the van is it seem that the van dose not like to start when the actuator is plugged in but will happily start when unpluged is this further evidence its trash or is there further problems on top of the actuator.



Thanks agen for your help its vary much appreciated.

W.adam.s
12-05-2015, 02:36 AM
Hi Adam,
Sorry, didn't see your pervious post (#18 on 11-6).
To answer the questions asked in that post:
Question that might be obvious but I am new and trying to learn. Had the van into a mechanic who to read codes and diagnose the issue for me.
If the shop had a fully capable Sprinter diagnostic system....this is the best way to determine if you have a turbocharger actuator issue.

He said that the turbo waste gate actuator is not functioning.
He was simply using the wrong term.
A "waste gate" on a turbocharged engine is simply a pressure limiting valve. If the turbocharger develops too much pressure the wastegate
opens and dumps all the pressure that is above the limit/threshold that the valve opens.
There are many turbocharger systems that operate in this manner, but not MB Sprinters.

Is this the same as the turbo actuator?
Not the same, but the same basic function (controlling the turbocharger boost pressure).
Your turbocharger actuator controls the boost level that your engine receives.
The turbocharger actuator is controlled by the main Engine Control Module (ECM), regulating your boost pressure
to match the current load level the sensors say the engine is developing.
When you accelerate, the sensors tell the Engine control module (ECM) to push more fuel to the engine, and to balance
the higher fueling rate, the ECM signals your turbocharger actuator to divert more exhaust flow onto the turbocharger
drive/bucket wheel (the hot side of your turbocharger) so the turbocharger spins up faster, developing more/higher boost
pressure in the driven/cold side of your turbocharger.
There is no "waste gate" on your OM-647, but the turbocharger actuator regulates the turbo boost pressure so that it
does not exceed ~ 37 PSIA (Absolute pressure....above the ambient 14.7 PSIA at sea level). This equates to ~22 PSIG (Gauge pressure,
not taking into consideration ambient atmospheric pressure or altitude).

Or is a waste gate a different part?
Your Sprinter does not have a wastegate.....it does not need one as the turbocharger actuator controls the turbo boost
pressure without a need for a "pop off" valve if the turbo develops more pressure than your engine needs.
If your turbo pressure goes too high, the boost sensor (MAP-Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor) will sense this and
signal the turbocharger actuator to reduce the boost level. If the boost level is not reduced to the proper level, the
ECM will signal a "over boost" condition, and tell the turbocharger actuator to shut your turbocharger OFF.

Sorry if this is a stupid question.
No such thing a stupid question....you didn't know the difference between a turbo actuator and a waste gate.
Now you have a better idea of what they do, how they function to regulate your turbo boost.

On your next question, yes, it sounds like you need a new or rebuilt turbo charger actuator.
Sorry, at the DIY level, the actuator either works....or it doesn't.
Here's a business that sells OM-647 Turbocharger actuators"
http://www.xsboostturbochargers.com/products/dodge-mercedes-sprinter-2-7l-reman-turbocharger-electronic-actuator-2004-2007/
Hope this helps,
Roger

today i installed a new actuator....and still with the revving engine there is no movement. it still only moves when the van is stared. and my scangage ii is reading -.07 bst

where would you go from here? could it be an electric issue? bad turbo?

thanks and any help would be great.