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DieselFumes
07-17-2015, 03:17 AM
First, story time. Then, a question for the combined expertise of the forum.

I ordered a 4x4 on the first day of availability, October 2014. I found a dealer who offered to meet me half way between invoice and MSRP. This is at a time when most were asking for MSRP or above. Good deal, right?

Fast forward to mid-May. I ask for an update, and am told the van will be at the dealership June 1.

June 1, no van. More emails and calls exchanged over the next couple of weeks (mostly at my prompting). Finally, Iím told ďOh, apparently that was the date your van landed at Lasdon, not the dealer date.Ē New date ďAbout a month.Ē

4th of July weekend, itís still in California waiting to be trucked up to the Pacific North West. Delivery finally happens on Sat 11th July while Iím on a mountain bike vacation I wanted to use the van for (and had already sold my old truck).

I get a text on Monday 13th morning with pictures of the van. The color looks a little off but that could be just cell phone cameras. Also, it has alloy wheels and I ordered steel. And are those fog lights? That wasnít part of any package I ordered.

I let the dealer know that things looked weird. No response. Maybe it was a nice dealer surprise to say sorry for the van being so late. I arranged to cut my vacation short and drive back to pick up the van on Weds 15th.

On Weds, I arrive with wife and dog, dusty from our trip, and the sales person proudly shows me my new van. Only it isnít. No suspension seats. No Active Safety package. An alarm system (not much use in the middle of a forest where we camp). A second battery (useless considering I have a LiFePo battery in the garage waiting to go in to the van). Becker GPS (I prefer Google). Wrong color. Wrong (higher) sticker price. Definitely a surprise.

So a conversation ensues. Turns out my van got sold on June 6 or 7. It was ďA feeding frenzyĒ to quote the sales person. In other words, they got above MSRP for it. Probably not very upset not to sell it to me.

Apparently no customer names are assigned to 4x4 orders, so they didnít think the one that came in was mine. I mean, itís not like is has a VIN they can check or anything, or that it arrived when mine was due in. **Miraculously**, they had done a dealer trade for this second 4x4, which they thought was mine. Really? They found a similar spec van from California completely by chance without in the slightest realizing that theyíd screwed up and needed to make good? Hmmm.

The sales person told me ďI would walk away if this happened to me.Ē I bet heíd like me to do that, because then he could sell this other van for above MSRP too, rather than the below-invoice price that Iím sitting in the dealership for 3 hours negotiating. In fact, he admitted he already had it sold. Whatís crazy is that at this point they were STILL trying to highball me, and running the ďIíve got to talk to my managerĒ game, until I stood up and said Iíll go with the sales person to talk to the sales manager.

I took the van home with me that day (without parting with any money). It's a nice van, but it's not what I ordered. The dealership manager (who was out on Weds) finally called at noon today (Thursday), and was still trying to not lose money on their screw-up. Of all the people who are potential candidates for helping him recoup his losses, I think I'm pretty far down the list. Sales person who sold my van, quite high up that same list. He didn't seem to see it that way.

Giving a dealer a deposit doesnít appear to constitute a contract. Or even if it does, they donít care.

Iím not going to name the dealership (yet).

My question is, in my position, what would you do? What would you be happy negotiating as a deal? What would count as compensation?

I am NOT looking for macho responses that are impractical. I donít find shouting at or threatening dealers to be particularly constructive. I want to know that I havenít left anything on the table before I give money to a dealership I never want to go near again.

Also, if you bought a 170 4x4 in Blue-Grey somewhere on the West Coast during the first few weeks of June without having put an order in, let me know (PM me). Don't worry - I'm not mad at you, it's an awesome van!

Some more detailsÖ
Original order: 170 4x4 Blue-Grey. Xenon, Active Safety, suspension seats, cruise control, hitch, etc. ~$58k MSRP. The list is long because I didnít choose packages if I could just get the single piece I wanted cheaper. Most of the inside was coming out anyway for a DIY conversion.

Actual van: 170 4x4 Silver Grey, Driver Efficiency (Becker, rear view camera, fog lamps), Premium Appearance (alloys, xenon), Additional Battery, hitch, power outlets, alarm system, overhead control panel, cheapest basic seats, ~$58.5k MSRP. Basically, lots of stuff that looks bling and sells vans on forecourts but has little practical use in a conversion.

sprinterryan5
07-17-2015, 03:58 AM
I don't know what I would do, but I would be unhappy. Just having picked up mine, I really like it so far and I guess you would just have to decide the want vs. need and time that it would take to get another.

With that, I'd find a new dealer (which dealer was this?) for a number of reasons you already mentioned above. Also, my salesman was great and told me that another dealer tried to trade and buy my van out from under me as soon as it arrived and showed on the books and he hung up on them. So as I was told, your name is assigned to it. The worst part of the waiting is the lack of updates that the dealers can get.

That sucks, good luck.

ranchworld
07-17-2015, 04:20 AM
Sounds like you spent a great deal of time and energy researching and ordering your dream 4x4 sprinter. You paid almost 60 thousand dollars. You did not get it. I think I would walk away. And name the dealer...

surlyoldbill
07-17-2015, 04:42 AM
It's not what you ordered, you gave a deposit. They would lose in court. Because it's not what you ordered, you shouldn't settle for it, despite the long wait. In 6 months there will be many more available.

I would try to negotiate them PAYING YOU to walk away, so they could sell the van for a higher price. Giving all your money back + $10k sounds about right. Or re-order waht you WANT and have them knock $10k additional off the van. Start at $15k and settle for $10k.

3mbusa
07-17-2015, 07:05 AM
Quit worrying about the dealer getting away with something (selling the van for a higher price). That is why they are called stealers instead of dealers -- they are experts at the game and do it daily to make a living; you will never out smart them. if it is not the right van for you then back away. You will own the van for a lot longer period of time than it will take you to find the right one. And you will always have sour grapes toward it because it was not exactly what you hoped it would be. Don't be foolish and spend 60 grand on the wrong van just because you thought you had out smarted the experts -- they will stick it to someplace along the line. They are in business to make money, not friends. :2cents:

hapaschold
07-17-2015, 10:01 AM
dont buy the wrong van.

i regret not ordering in a van with the few ok few dozen extra s i would have liked.

fyi, the difference between sticker and invoice on MB s is 7 % and they re still making money on hold back.

i got my sprinter at invoice and i got my s class at invoice both less what ever incentives were available.

DieselFumes
07-17-2015, 01:35 PM
@ranchworld, @surlyoldbill, @3mbusa, @hapaschold, Wow - it looks like the overwhelming advice is to walk away.

I was really tempted to walk away but I've spent 10 months planning this build and I have a garage full of components to put in it. The replacement van is sufficiently close that I can just about make it work.

Putting in a new order now would set me back another 6 months minimum. There's an opportunity cost associated with that - basically missing out on using the van for the rest of the summer. I'm trying to approach this without involving my emotional response. It's hard though, because as you know buying a vehicle for personal use has an emotional component.

I also don't want to give the dealer the satisfaction of walking away, I don't trust them to honor any future deal we agreed to now, and I never want to set foot in that dealership again.

I'm going back to talk to them today. I'll post my experiences and either name or not name them at that point.

NBB
07-17-2015, 02:47 PM
Sounds like a crappy dealer.

However, if it were me, I would accept the van as-is and build it the way I wanted starting with what I got. Seems your costs will be a bit higher if you INSIST on a few things I don't think are that important, otherwise I think the practical differences are trivial.

If you INSIST on suspension seats, for example, you might look first at the cost of putting them in there yourself on genuinemercedesparts.com and decide if it's really worth it based on where you are now and how much extra time and money it will take to get them inside the van you think you really wanted directly from the factory. I'd say f' it. Reality here is that what you think you want anyway is based on catalog pages and fantasy, you haven't owned one of these things yet for 100k to know for sure what has value and what is a waste of money. For example, I would say the whole 4x4 thing is a waste of money based on owning 2 4x4 vans for over a decade (in CO, no less), but that's just me.

avanti
07-17-2015, 02:57 PM
I think if it were me, I would (a) ignore the trivial differences and (b) insist that the dealer do a field retrofit of anything practical (seats, for example). Of course, only you can decide what is "trivial".

Not to make your decision more difficult, but if it were me the biggest pain point would be the loss of the Active Safety Package. It is one of my favorite features on our van and I doubt that it can be retrofitted as a practical matter.

NBB
07-17-2015, 03:27 PM
(b) insist that the dealer do a field retrofit of anything practical (seats, for example).

I would find the quickest path to stop interacting with this dealer ASAP. They seem to be causing the OP trouble. It's reasonable to assume that will continue, it always does. This dealer seems adept at putting profit before customer service in their interactions, that will likely continue.

My first rule of dealing with morons ... is to stop dealing with the morons.

If I was unable to perform the changes myself, I would find someone else to do them. It may seem at first like it will cost more - but it probably won't.

4-Day
07-17-2015, 04:00 PM
Have you contacted Mercedes Benz at the national level and talk with Customer Service? They helped us out with our warranty issue's. Maybe the same with your issue. It appeared that when the National office called the dealership things changed.

surlyoldbill
07-17-2015, 04:06 PM
Yeah, making the dealer install the stuff (if possible) you ordered at NO COST might be an option.

You have a little room to try to "fix" this dilemma, but you shouldn't buy something you don't want. If your trips are mainly biking, you could easily wait another 6 months for the right van to be delivered. Moab isn't rideable until late March, anyway. If you also do wintersports, that's another matter. How are you getting to the hills now?!

mindtrip
07-17-2015, 10:25 PM
Moab isn't rideable until late March, anyway.

As a Denverite who goes to Moab and Indian Creek frequently for mountain biking and climbing, I have to politely disagree here. Moab is perfectly rideable in the fall, usually starting in October. Sure, you can't do The Whole Enchilada as the road is usually closed by then and the snows have started on Burro Pass, but you can ride it in September and deal with the heat at the bottom.....

Now back to the question at hand: If it were me, I'd first contact MB National customer service about the issue. I'd probably also consult an attorney, as a previous poster may be right--you might have a valid case in court, which could help you get some kind of satisfaction.

Frankly, your options are 1) roll over and take what they offer, feel pissed for a long time to come, possibly coloring the enjoyment you'd get from van anyway, as the dealer gets off without a care; 2) refuse the van, demand your original order at the original price, possibly have to fight it in court, and even without a fight wait for a new van to be built; or 3) come to some kind of compromise with the dealer, likely starting around the original order and agreed sales price, having them install everything missing that they can install, and getting money back on the things they can't install. And possibly some money back for your trouble and disappointment.

If it were me, I doubt I would accept option 1. I believe you may have legal recourse; at the very least, speaking with an attorney will inform you of your rights, and a letter from an attorney indicating possible legal action should they fail to work with you can sometimes prompt a litigious-avoidant business owner to be more reasonable. Of course that only works if you really do have a valid and enforceable claim, which you very well may have.

Deciding between options 2 and 3 is harder. I agree, I really do love the active safety package on my van, and would be tempted to wait for a new van where it has been fitted. It all comes down to how badly you want it *right now*. If you can delay gratification, you can get exactly what you want--for me, spending $60k on a van and another hefty chunk to do the conversion, I decided that I want what I want and wouldn't be happy with less. If you can comfortably give up features that can't be retrofit, assuming the dealer works with you to arrive at a price and package you're happy with, then maybe option 3 is for you. You might ask them to compensate with some 'freebies'--custom wheels/tires thrown in? Or the secondary alternator to charge your house batteries separately from your engine battery, at 200 amps at idle? They can definitely retrofit that one, and it's pretty handy for boondocking.... If they tried to screw with me more and more to get me to drop it, however, that's likely to push me to go to court and force my claim.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out!

DieselFumes
07-18-2015, 03:09 AM
Thanks for all the well-reasoned replies. I knew you folks would have an **opinion**, but you also came with good **data** which is awesome. I'll be going through and hitting the Thanks button in a second.

Here's where I'm at now. I bought the "replacement" van. I got a good price, I think. The dealer claims he's losing money but I don't think that's true in the longer term after kickbacks, etc. The van sufficiently workable that I'll live with it for a while. I think I'll wait until the North American plant is open and maybe a new body style is introduced before selling this van as a complete conversion and buying a new one. Ford may have a factory 4x4 Transit by then, too.

Suggestions fell into a couple of categories, so I'll try and address each:

Wait for a new van
That was sort-of offered by the dealer. But they're crap. They don't know how to work the system like other dealers who regularly order Sprinters. They don't know much about their product or the options that go on it (and admitted as much). They don't think 2016 4x4 ordering is open yet. And why would I want to subject myself to working with them again?

They even offered to buy this one back when the new one arrived. Thing is, I'll be gluing in Thinsulate, cutting a hole in the ceiling for a fan, and doing several other pretty major modifications. Sure, I could sell this one in a year's time with the conversion already done (rather than selling it back to the dealer) but that's too short a turn-around time to recoup my time investment for the upfit I'll be doing.

Also, like I mentioned before, opportunity cost. I live in the Cascade foothills in WA and bike year-round. I'll be down in Mount Hood area and Moab for sure this year (agree with Mindtrip that Moab is just fine in September/October, and I'm planning on riding The Whole Enchilada). I already sold my Explorer, which I've been using for this type of trip until now. And maybe I'm a wuss, but I've had several experiences with snowy mountain passes where 4x4 has pretty much saved my ass.

Demand they install the packages
A no-go. Tried it. They know, as do you and I, that the aftermarket OEM parts cost is way up there. The whole suspension seat package with lowered pedestals, luxury seats and suspension units costs less as a factory option than one luxury seat on genuinemercedesparts.com. Also, the suspension seat units are not readily available. There is no way that options like Active Safety could be retrofitted even if the mechanic donned lederhosen and sang Bavarian love songs to the Sprinter while they were doing it. Plus, why would I want this dealership to do it?

As an indication of their level of care and attention, the replacement van was destined for California, so it had the front license plate holder deleted from the factory. No problem - two self-tapping screws through the plate and into the front bumper and we're good to go. Yep, I'm sure they're genuine Mercedes self-tapping screws.

The dealer did also offer a discount on parts I ordered from him. I'll repeat, a discount, not at-cost. No thanks, I'll go online instead.

Take them to court
If I finally in a couple of years won my case, I might feel better. In the meantime I wouldn't have a van. I imagine that slimy dealers hire even slimier attorneys, so do I really want to go through that process?

There's some interesting research conducted in VA hospitals which showed that if the hospital admitted mistakes to patients before the patients discovered them themselves, it reduced the incidence of subsequent litigation. In other words, all people really want is an apology. The money's nice too, but it's not often people's primary motivation. I, too, would have felt fine with a genuine apology. I heard "we made a mistake" from the dealer, but did not sense anything in their words or actions which made me think they were really apologetic.

I could take them to court to force them to apologize to me, but I run my own consulting company and I'm pretty sure that I could buy a whole new van with the number of my billable hours that process would take. The dealer knows that and is counting on it, which also makes me pissed, but the recursiveness of the "I know that they know that I know that they know that it's not worth the effort" has to stop somewhere.

Threats
They don't really care about threats such as who I might complain to. However, I do have a little bit of a background in online reputation management, and they might start to care later on if/when I decide to name names.

Contacting MB at a national level doesn't seem to have worked too well for other forum members (I did some searching to see whether it was worth investing time in this approach). This also has the same counterarguments as the legal option.

Compromise
That's the path I took. It wasn't easy doing this. My observation was that the dealership will be nice to you only as much as it helps them to pump money from you. They are completely driven by self-interest. Like 3mbusa said, you will never outsmart them. My impression is that any threats/shouting/posturing are like water off a duck's back.

In the end, I was at exactly 15% below MSRP. I am not happy with that, but I'm accepting it and moving on. The van's a nice color, it has the most essential of the items I wanted, and if I can rip out some of the other options like the second battery and charging relay without causing the whole system to shut down (haven't researched that yet...), I may be able to recoup even a little bit more cash.

surlyoldbill
07-18-2015, 03:28 AM
As a Denverite who goes to Moab and Indian Creek frequently for mountain biking and climbing, I have to politely disagree here. Moab is perfectly rideable in the fall, usually starting in October. Sure, you can't do The Whole Enchilada as the road is usually closed by then and the snows have started on Burro Pass, but you can ride it in September and deal with the heat at the bottom.....


Well yeah, it's rideable from March through November...I was thinking if you ordered another one today it would be here by the time Spring riding starts. I might head out there for a week in October. When I lived in Fairplay, I would go almost every weekend in March-June, and again September-November. When Mud Season hit in the mountains, half the ski bum population would relocate to Moab.

surlyoldbill
07-18-2015, 03:34 AM
I think you'd WANT the 2nd battery...I would.

Graphite Dave
07-18-2015, 03:52 AM
Like 3mbusa said, you will never outsmart them. My impression is that any threats/shouting/posturing are like water off a duck's back.


Not exactly true. They may not know you outsmarted them but when you take your business elsewhere they were outsmarted. If enough people do that they might eventually get the message with lower sales.

The local Sprinter service manager was told that Mercedes did not build my 08 NCV3 Sprinter. I guess their logic was correct because it had Dodge written on it instead of the 3 pointed star. They also stated they could not help with information about my optional diesel heater repair because "we never made a OEM heater so it must have been installed by a third party". Both of the above statements were told to the excellent local Sprinter service manager. Basically no support from Mercedes for the local dealer with troubleshooting information. Local dealer was excellent and was truly trying his best with no information from Mercedes. The fact I had bought vehicle new and had the original window sticker showing the option and the Dodge book explaining each option had no bearing on the discussion. After several months of repeatedly visiting the local dealer asking if he had any further information which he had not, I found a new 2014 "Mercedes" Sprinter on their new car lot with the exact same option that I had on my Sprinter. Escorted the service manager out to the vehicle and suggested he look under the vehicle to confirm that what I had was a heater as installed by Mercedes. He then was convinced. He still did not have any support from Mercedes so had to just throw very expensive parts at it until it finally worked. Cost about $2,000 to repair and the local service manager absorbed some of the labor because "we can not charge for all of it because we are learning as we go". Have nothing but nice things to say about the local (Santa Rosa) service. Best service rep I have ever dealt with. Can not say anything nice about Mercedes. Not how customers should be treated.

I now drive a Transit. Wish the Mercedes service manager would quit Mercedes and go to work for the local Ford dealer. My first dealings with the local Ford dealer made me wish I was dealing with Matt at Mercedes. Besides the toilet facilities and waiting room do not compare and Ford has rot gut coffee compared to individual cup brewed Kerig gourmet coffee with excellent cookies at Mercedes. Dealers are within walking distance so may get Transit serviced at Ford and I will walk down the street for my coffee and cookies. Be a long time before we are even due to the $2,000 to fix a stupid Mercedes bastardized diesel heater. Sorry, I am a bit bitter about how I was treated.

ddunaway
07-18-2015, 03:53 AM
Bummer, I worked with Jim Foster out of Tacoma, WA. He was great and in your area....super straight up. Paid full retail.....remember him saying "not a penny more not a penny less" and this is what it was. Saw another forum member had a good experience with him too......but sounds like you already went with the original dealer.

wmlog
07-18-2015, 05:48 AM
It is unfortunate that you got screwed over by the dealer. but, it sounds like you made the right decision, and for well thought out reasons. I wish you well with your new Sprinter!

MB dealers are not the only dealers to sell vehicles out from under you. Several years ago my brother ordered a loaded up GM SUV, and a loaded up sedan. The SUV arrived at the dealership first, and the dealer sold it to someone else before it got off the truck. When my brother arrived, they were prepping the SUV for the new owner! He was buying them with an employees' discount, so I'm sure the dealer made a more advantageous sale. They then got to find a new owner for the sedan when it arrived, lost a long term customer, and had to pay him a penalty.

When I ordered both my 2008 Dodge and 2014 MB Sprinters I had a deposit on them and my name was right on the window sticker. I could have sold either of them for a few grand more than I paid as soon as I took delivery.

When I ordered my 2014 Sprinter, the salesman screwed up and didn't order the electric heated windshield as I had specified, although he supposedly went over the order several times. When I pressed the issue, the salesman found other employment (for various reasons), and the dealer ultimately refunded me what the option would have cost and did the first A service for free. Unfortunately, I got pretty much what I paid for with the free A service, and they then gave me a $50 discount of the first B service, which they then screwed up worse than the A service!

Most Sprinter dealers (and Sprinter salesmen) don't have a clue how to order a custom Sprinter. You have to assume that responsibility, and then stay on top of your order.

... It's not that I don't trust them, it's just that I can't keep my eye on them all the time!

:bash:

3mbusa
07-18-2015, 07:31 AM
Diesel,

Where will you get your authorized Mercedes Sprinter warranty work done? Not all Mercedes dealers are authorized Sprinter service facilities. Was the selling dealer (stealer) in the Seattle metro area -- there are at least four dealerships in the metro area plus one near the Canadian boarder for a total of five in Washington that I know of. Having bought five Mercedes vehicles while I lived in Washington I have had dealings with four of the five plus one in Portland, OR and another in Boise, ID. Of these dealerships I only had favorable experience with three. Maybe I can give you some first hand insight? :thumbup:

Ivessm
07-18-2015, 01:55 PM
DieselFumes - You are a saint.:dripsarcasm:

I don't know what I would have done but color is important to me so I would probably have had them reorder and deliver at the same price. Even if it's a newer year. You would have a newer year, hopefully with fixed problems found in the first year of 4x4 production for the US Market, and got what you wanted.

Well, I wish you luck with your new Sprinter and hope it delivers many many happy miles.

I think you owe it to the readers on this forum to state the dealership that did this. They knew exactly what they were doing and they didn't care so why should you care to protect them. What you report might save the next Sprinter buyer from a like experience.

What if you read this thread BEFORE you ordered your Sprinter and you didn't know it was the same dealership you walked into and put your $$$ down and ordered yours. I'll bet you would be doubly pissed!!! :bash: :bash: :bash:

We as Sprinter owners need to be a united group and fairly report both good and bad dealerships. I deal with Sun Motor Cars, Mechanicsburg, PA, and am very pleased with all my dealings with this dealership from purchasing to delivery to service. I think I'm one of the luck ones to be living in Sun Motor Cars service area.

stew

CheckMax
07-18-2015, 02:21 PM
What happened to you demonstrates an incredible lack of integrity and honesty.
I agree with previous comments, please disclose the dealership. This kind of behavior cannot be supported. You entered into an agreement for a specific vehicle which the dealer horse traded to make any extra buck. Who knows other what other unscrupulous practices they condone.

MBUSA required deposits for 4x4 factory orders. How can their dealer sell it out from you? I've debt with MBUSA in the past and have found them responsive. Name calling doesn't work but facts are difficult to refute. You dealer should be held accountable for their actions and you should be made whole.

surlyoldbill
07-18-2015, 03:44 PM
Money exchanged hands to secure a particular purchase agreed upon by both parties, this is a CONTRACT. They broke the contract, pretty simple.

If I were to ever buy a new vehicle instead of a low mileage used one, I would be very particular about the specs and wouldn't settle for less. Unless it was financially expedient, such as a near similar vehicle for much less money, especially if the desired components could be added at a cost less than the factory delivered one. Since I only buy used vehicles, I just look around for a few months until one that is very close to what I want shows up. For my current van, I wanted a passenger 140SHC that wasn't white; red was not my first choice but was acceptable. I still discover things on it that I didn't know about, and I've had it for 9 years. Discovered the ESPAR just a year or two ago!

DieselFumes
07-19-2015, 04:00 PM
@Ivessm / @ checkmax - you make a great point about reasons for disclosing the dealer name. I owe it to this forum.

The dealer is Wilson Motors of Bellingham, WA and they should be ashamed of how they initially screwed up and how they completely failed to perform any kind of genuine service recovery subsequently. I would never try to purchase a new or used vehicle from them, and I would not trust them for service or spare parts either. Those are strong statements, but I think they are supported by the facts I've laid out in this thread. Don't let the owner's charming English accent fool you. I have one of those too, so the charm doesn't work on me.

I took the new sprinter - OK, let's call it "my" new sprinter - to a mountain bike race yesterday, supporting my wife. She absolutely loved having the space inside to change and the ease of setup/tear down compared to pre-sprinter life. That's before we've done anything to the inside at all.

I can make this van work for me and it's becoming clearer that the opportunity cost of waiting would have outweighed the value of getting the exact items I wanted. That does not let the dealer off the hook. They are still, in my opinion, slimy, self-interested, and ultimately a very bad mark on Mercedes' reputation.

I'm still angry about the situation but I'm moving on. I'll find the dealer survey thread for Wilson Motors and add a pointer to this thread over there too.

Thanks once again for the support you folks have given me through this process. This forum really is a community.

3mbusa
07-19-2015, 06:18 PM
Diesel,

I am so sorry and shocked to hear that your problem occurred at Wilson Motors of Bellingham, WA. My experience with them has been completely the opposite -- what a shame.

I purchased two new Mercedes from them and they serviced those and three other that I bought elsewhere with fantastic results. I do recall, however, a time a few years ago when their sales force went through a difficult time due to an overly aggressive sales manager; but shortly after that he left the firm. Are you sure you were dealing with Rick Wilson the owner?

Other than short encounters with the sales people during purchases, probably 95 plus percent of my contact has been with Dennis Tell the Service Manager; and I still contact him for advice now that we have moved to Arizona. I have recommended several people to try out their service department, and without exception they have been pleased with their service.

I think, if they are your closest dealership, you should go in and meet Dennis Tell with regard to service for your Sprinter. I am sure you will find him to a straight fellow -- good luck with your new toy! :thumbup:

DieselFumes
07-20-2015, 03:08 AM
Are you sure you were dealing with Rick Wilson the owner?


Actually, no I ended up dealing with Julian Greening. Must be the manager, not the owner. They are not my closest dealership, and I think if I ever broke down and they were the closest I would pay to have the vehicle towed further down I5 rather than dealing with them at this point.

That's the problem with bad service - it affects all aspects of your business. Dennis may be as wonderful as you suggest, but I'm not ever going to find out now.

3mbusa
07-20-2015, 05:01 PM
Diesel,

There are some important wheels turning at Wilson Motors right now. I don't know if anything will come of it, but please try to be receptive to at least looking over any offers they might propose -- down deep some place, I personally know there are some good people in the firm. Don't be foolish and cut off you nose to spite your face -- carefully look over what they may have to offer, if anything. Good luck; and again I am sorry you had this problem :thinking:

DieselFumes
07-20-2015, 06:31 PM
@3mbusa - I'm glad you had a positive experience with the dealer, but none of their offers were aimed at remediation. Instead, they were all aimed at reducing their losses. Their attitude was that they sold my original van for more money than they'd have made from me, and they could do the same with this one. They did the minimum necessary in their minds to make me go away. I don't think they realize that the problem has left their forecourt but not finished leaving a mark on their reputation.

DieselFumes
07-20-2015, 07:24 PM
I think you'd WANT the 2nd battery...I would.

The one that came with the van is the additional (under the hood) battery, not the auxillary (under the passenger seat) battery. It's a 100AH unit, so 50AH usable.

I have this thing waiting to go in the back. 700AH, LiFePo. Plans for solar charging. Not really much comparison. It turns the additional factory battery into dead weight, pretty much.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=340&pictureid=1799

thlevy48
07-20-2015, 07:45 PM
I would give them two choices, (1) put in the suspension seats and sell it to you for the quoted price or (2) refund your deposit plus the difference between the quoted price and the actual sales price and walk away without persuing "breach of contract" or contacting the state agency that regulates dealers.

3mbusa
07-20-2015, 11:02 PM
Diesel,

If you haven't heard from them after my "wheels turning" posting, give them a chance -- be patient. You have nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain -- unless, of course, revenge is all you are after? :hmmm:

surlyoldbill
07-21-2015, 12:39 AM
The one that came with the van is the additional (under the hood) battery, not the auxillary (under the passenger seat) battery. It's a 100AH unit, so 50AH usable.

I have this thing waiting to go in the back. 700AH, LiFePo. Plans for solar charging. Not really much comparison. It turns the additional factory battery into dead weight, pretty much.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=340&pictureid=1799

I mean I would want the second under the hood battery as a backup starting battery, AND I would add an aux battery bank in the back like you described. Can't push-start a Sprinter...

Julian Greening
07-21-2015, 01:23 AM
Hello, I would like to respond to the the forum with regards to the very unfortunate events included in the links. The staff at Wilson Motors screwed up and made a horrendous mistake, as the General Manager, Partner and staff member I am truly sorry. It has been suggested that we sold the vehicle from under the customer for more money, that is not true! It has been suggested that I tried to charm the customer, after screwing up at this level what am I supposed to to do? Last but not least I negotiated a deal that cost the Dealership a lot of money to try to put this right, the customer took the deal and drove away in a new Sprinter, I agree that we needed to pay for our mistakes and did. Please be sure to know this about Wilson Motors, we do care and we do screw up occasionaly, but we are not what this forum is being lead to believe.

Sincerly

Julian Greening
General Manager & Partner

wmlog
07-21-2015, 02:12 AM
Hello, I would like to respond to the the forum with regards to the very unfortunate events included in the links. The staff at Wilson Motors screwed up and made a horrendous mistake, as the General Manager, Partner and staff member I am truly sorry. It has been suggested that we sold the vehicle from under the customer for more money, that is not true! It has been suggested that I tried to charm the customer, after screwing up at this level what am I supposed to to do? Last but not least I negotiated a deal that cost the Dealership a lot of money to try to put this right, the customer took the deal and drove away in a new Sprinter, I agree that we needed to pay for our mistakes and did. Please be sure to know this about Wilson Motors, we do care and we do screw up occasionaly, but we are not what this forum is being lead to believe.

Sincerly

Julian Greening
General Manager & Partner

It's easy to say you didn't do this or didn't do that ... Perhaps you would like to explain how someone who custom ordered a Sprinter from your business, lost it when it was sold to another customer. Could you enlighten us? I think we could all learn from you sharing your viewpoint.

:idunno:

:thinking:

GeorgeRa
07-21-2015, 03:48 AM
My 2012 experience with Wilson Motors was weird and unacceptable. Asking for $10K to be placed in escrow for 1 year after the purchase, wow. I think Costco dropped them from their purchasing process list, at least I hope.

Perhaps they doing something right with good Google reviews, but I would never get a car from them.
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=218329&postcount=6

Interesting apology from Julian Greening, sorry but, just sorry would be more sincere and meaningful.

George.

3mbusa
07-21-2015, 07:11 AM
Diesel,

After waiting so long you were justifiably so very disappointed. I can, therefore, understand your urgent desire to have a van right now. Given your overwhelming desire to have it now, what reasonable requests did Wilson not provide during your latest negotiations with them (at the time you took position of the van)? Were there any other vans available within the area? What else could they have rationally done that they did not do? Did you pay for things you did not get, and did you get things (needed or not) that you did not pay for? As I have learned from life's many disappointments, there are some situations where sorry is all that can be done As a boss of mine used to say much to often, and I hated him for it, "you cannot un-ring a bell". Go and enjoy your new toy; you are going to make it into a fantastic getaway vehicle with tons of hours of fun to come. :cheers:

NBB
07-21-2015, 11:16 AM
... I negotiated a deal that cost the Dealership a lot of money...

Calling BS. You made less money, no way in hell did you lose money.

obie
07-21-2015, 11:20 AM
Haha! Get real! How about the mistake of selling a specially ordered vehicle? Who made the actual sale of the original one, Julian or someone else? And what's 3mb's connection to all of this, besides what's been stated I mean.

CheckMax
07-21-2015, 02:28 PM
This thread is beginning to border on the absurd.
In the 25+ years of buying cars, whenever I bought new I bought off the lot. Ineherently that should have the best price and involve some.compromise with both parties since availability is limited to current stock.

The 4x4 sprinter is my first factory order. Why? Because I wanted a certain spec and was willing to wait for it as were so many of us. I believe it's unfair to put the onus of compromise on dieselfumes for a situation he did not create.

What are Wilson Motors and 3mbusa trying to communicate here?

One of two things happened here. The first the dealer sold a specially ordered vebicle for a better price - greed - or the dealer sold a specially ordered vehicle to another customer by accident - incompetence. Given that all 4x4 sprinters had to be specially ordered I'm not sure how the latter could have happened. In either scenario the dealer is responsible. The only cost here is oportunity cost incurred by the dealer and the fuzzy math they use to calculate their profits. I find it completely.disingenuous that dieselfumesafter waiting the time he has had to.compromise on what he has ordered. This isnt a debate of what is reasonabe. What's reasonable to assume dieselfumes should accept a vehicle he may have for the next ten years? It's clear from his post he's not happy.with the outcome. Taking advantage of his desire to want to drive the van he's been waiting for with another substitute shouldn't be his decision. I have yet to read a plausible explanation.of what happened.

Wilson Motors should be reaching out to other dealers or their customers and horse trading for a near term factory order that delivers dieselfumes his van. In the meantime let him drive a 4x2 as a demo for those trips he needs it.

That would be exceptional service, taking responsibility for their mistake and commitment to the customer. That's where this forum should be celebrating a dealer correcting its wrong and not making excuses with weak explanations like above.

To those not.involved in this, my apologies for the rant.

obie
07-21-2015, 03:46 PM
Quit worrying about the dealer getting away with something (selling the van for a higher price). That is why they are called stealers instead of dealers -- they are experts at the game and do it daily to make a living; you will never out smart them. if it is not the right van for you then back away. You will own the van for a lot longer period of time than it will take you to find the right one. And you will always have sour grapes toward it because it was not exactly what you hoped it would be. Don't be foolish and spend 60 grand on the wrong van just because you thought you had out smarted the experts -- they will stick it to someplace along the line. They are in business to make money, not friends. :2cents:

Funny how the attitude changed.

gary 32
07-21-2015, 04:14 PM
The staff at Wilson Motors screwed up and made a horrendous mistake, as the General Manager, Partner and staff member I am truly sorry. It has been suggested that we sold the vehicle from under the customer for more money, that is not true!

Sincerly

Julian Greening
General Manager & Partner

Mr. Greening,

Did you sell the van for less money than the original order?

A custom order it has the customers name on the window sticker, you guys missed that?

Your dealership lied repeatedly to a customer, is this a normal day?

Your customer will never forget this nor will any forum members who read these posts.

GeorgeRa
07-21-2015, 04:18 PM
......................
Your customer will never forget this nor will any forum members who read these posts.

Exactly!

George.

Graphite Dave
07-21-2015, 04:35 PM
Julian: Welcome to the internet. It can be your friend or your enemy.

I am sure the extra profit you made with your "mistake" will never cover the profits you will not get due to these postings. Have a nice day.:smirk:

Hopefully you will learn that not all your customers are as stupid as you thought.

3mbusa
07-21-2015, 05:52 PM
Obie,

You noticed the shift in my attitude Ė how clever of you. What you may not be aware of is the dynamic changes in the situation that brought about my revaluation.

First of all I had wrongly assumed Diesel was dealing with one of the other less desirable (based on my actual experience) dealers in the Puget Sound area -- to my surprise, and yes disappointment in Wilson, he was not. To this end, I contacted a friend in Wilsonís management and suggested that they take some sort of damage control action toward correction of what appeared to be a very disturbing situation. Wilson Motors have been very upright and honest with me during my 20 years in the Puget Sound area, and I have made some friendships there. Yes there were mistakes made in some of our business interactions, but they were always favorably corrected when I called them to their attention. I assumed that they had or would respond in kind in this situation.

Secondly, once Diesel decided not to back away from the deal, resolution of the situation took on a completely different set of dynamics. Now a way must be found to meet Dieselís needs knowing that he apparently will never be satisfied short of getting the van that he ordered. Unfortunately that cannot happen under any circumstances as long as he is not willing to wait on another special order (as I understand all 4x4ís have to be special ordered with a long lead time delivery).

At this point in time the only input we have from Diesel is that he is not satisfied; and that Wilson negotiated some sort of an alleged loss to the firm in order to provide him with a van that he apparently does not want Ė how much more snarled can the situation get. With out the specific facts of the final contract (which is apparently, and rightfully, being kept personal between Diesel and Wilson) none of us probably should be making judgment calls as to the appropriateness of any resolution to this unfortunate situation.

I am done here Ė all of you may continue to have at it with all the negativity you can muster, if that is your mind set. :bash:

DieselFumes
07-21-2015, 06:52 PM
I want to address a couple of issues that have been raised since my last post. To be honest, based on my previous interactions, Iím not expecting any more from the dealer. Iím ready to move on and start turning the van I drove home into ďmyĒ van, even if it doesnít have the options I specced.

But, this thread has once again proved the old saying: ďIf you have a great experience, you tell one person. If you have a bad experience, you tell ten people.Ē I didnít expect the number of responses. I really donít want this to degenerate into a name calling thread.

Iím actually glad that 3mbusa managed to contact someone (Julian?) at the dealership to make them aware of this thread. Iím glad Julian has joined the forum. Itís a great place to learn about Sprinters. Itís also a great place to learn about the power of reputation, and what it takes to build a good reputation. Forum powerhouses like GeorgeRa and Graphite Dave have given a lot to this community, they receive a great deal of respect as a result, and Iím honored that theyíve chimed in on this thread.

I want to reiterate something I mentioned earlier. If Iíd at any point felt like I was being respected as a customer during this interaction, this thread might not exist.

Respect, in my mind, is making an attempt to do the right thing without forcing your customer to suggest remediation options. For instance, immediately offering to put in the options it was possible to put in at no cost, rather than grudgingly offering a discount on parts bought from the service counter when your customer suggests you might want to add the missing items.

Instead I was made to feel like a problem individual who was causing the dealership to ďlose money.Ē I think itís disingenuous for the dealer to claim they lost money on this interaction. Sure, they sold me the replacement van at marginally less than invoice. That does not take into account any bulk sales discounts and other Mercedes dealer kickbacks. It also does not factor in the lovely additional profit they made by selling the van that originally had my name on it.

I still find it weird that they believe that they have to make money on every deal, and that I should be the one to pay for their mistake. I think Julian truly believes heís been hard done by here because he sold a van for less than invoice. I got the feeling when I spoke to him on the phone that it hurts him to be in that position. Thatís probably part of a dealer mentality. But the reality is they did NOT lose money on this deal.

However, they did not maximize their profit. I think thatís the issue here. Julian had invoice and sale price numbers in front of him during his call with me, and was using those as his rationale for not offering me any additional remediation. He mentioned on the call that he had to balance my needs as a customer with his needs as a business. My response was that he could look at this in terms of profit, or in terms of reputation. His primary concern was the cost of this issue to his business. I think if his primary concern had been to make things right, it would ultimately have been cheaper for him.

Back to 3bmusa: Wheels are not turning, they already turned. In fact I think they locked up and may be heading for the edge of the road. Reputation is a bitch.

Nate
07-21-2015, 09:06 PM
DieselFumes, sorry for your MB dealer experience.

On the plus side, I special ordered Silver Grey and love it. So I think you ended up with a great color even if it's not the one you picked. ;)



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

surlyoldbill
07-21-2015, 09:58 PM
It's easy to say you didn't do this or didn't do that ... Perhaps you would like to explain how someone who custom ordered a Sprinter from your business, lost it when it was sold to another customer. Could you enlighten us? I think we could all learn from you sharing your viewpoint.

:

We can have fun trying to figure out the chain of events that lead to a custom order being sold to someone else.

My guess: Commissioned sales people are often sociopathic jerks, motivated solely by money. I'm thinking the van came in, and a customer saw it in the holding area and wanted a peek. They liked it, and offered a little cash under the table, a "tip" if you will, to the salesdrone and the sales manager to sell it to them at MSRP and concoct some story about it being a mistake. Since even a small amount of money is more important to salesdrones than reputation or perhaps even continued employment, they went for it and told the person that ordered it "too bad, so sad" in so many words.

Now, the general manager may have not been informed that any of this was going on, because the sales manager was making sure they DIDN'T until the deal was done and it was too late to turn back. I bet the salesdrone and sales manager didn't even get $1000 each for doing this, and in the process ruining the dealership's reputation with forum members (which are probably the majority of Sprinter buyers). It will be easy for the general manager to pull up the records and see who bought it, how much they paid, the date, etc. and they COULD (but won't) hang the salesdrone and sales manager out to dry.

BUT, a dealership is not a charity, they ONLY exist to turn a profit, and unfortunately only Tesla allows direct purchase from the manufacturer (all dealerships are franchises NOT owned by the car companies that they sell, they are private businesses with contracts).

NBB
07-22-2015, 12:45 AM
a "tip" if you will...

I doubt anything went under the table, but I agree that all levels of the dealership had to be involved to make it go out the door to the wrong person - and the amount of extra money they made probably amounted to a cup of pee compared to the loss to the OP.

I wish upon the guy who initiated that a lifetime of the wrong oil, EGR, DPF and turbo issues - and a dealer like Wilson to make it all the worse while charging him out the butt for it.

None of us have ever seen that happen.

He has no doubt read this thread.

Like a stranger's wife - when you find out something is not yours, you stop wanting it and move on. Sleazebags - all of them.

wmlog
07-22-2015, 03:43 AM
Where did the dealership find a 4X4 to trade for to sell as the replacement vehicle to DieselFumes? If all 4X4s are special order sold vehicles, did somebody else get screwed over, too?

Perhaps part of the problem is the mindset of many MB dealers, salesmen and others that think Sprinter buyers are just like many of the buyers of their other MB vehicles. They think we give a darn about their nice little coffee shop and the valet service when we take our vehicle in to their service department to get our windshield washer fluid topped off or our windshield wipers changed. We are expected to bow and smile while we get screwed over. You won't see my Sprinter in a MB shop for anything I can do myself or get done somewhere else.

It was notable to discover how far it really is from Prescott, AZ to the Puget Sound area. Apparently, clout from an established and cultivated relationship isn't what it used to be. It's got to be a bitch to think you have clout with someone and they turn around and hang you out to dry.

Unfortunately, our options are somewhat limited. But, one option we do have is to keep informed as to which dealers are responsible, and which ones to avoid. There are other dealers out there to buy vehicles from and to frequent for service and parts.

Good customer service and loyalty will get you repeat customers and positive references, but poor or despicable customer service will harm you tenfold and can kill your business.

This entire situation came about because someone's short term greed for the almighty dollar got in the way of [what should have been] common sense and courtesy and the dealers' failure to provide what should have been their inherent responsibility to a customer.

:cheers:

surlyoldbill
07-22-2015, 03:49 AM
Well, only a chump takes a vehicle to a dealership to have it worked on after the warranty is over.

icarus
07-22-2015, 04:41 AM
You have to accept one simple fact of life when it comes to car dealers...any car dealer! They make money on every side of every deal. What ever the give you in a "great trade in deal" always covers the minimum they can sell the car for, OR the extra markup they make on the new car. They print money on "accessories/add on packages". Then they have bogus "doc fees". The parts conter makes money, the service bays make money even on warantee work etc. etc. etc.

That said I am not anti profit, but reasonable profit. It is also amazing how often dealer ownership turns over. I persoanlly know Wilson(including some of the Principals in passing) and I don't think they are any better or any worse than average.

Over the years, they were big American Iron dealers in a small down town location. They also had Saab in the 1970s. They got the Toyota Franchise, then MB, dropped the Americwn brands, built I new big dealership, also downtown that they spend a few buck on, plus an extensive remodel. A few years after the remodel, they moved to thier current loction (on Auto Row) building a very expensive showroom, show lot, on the site of a former auto wreckers. The clean up costs were considerable, all this just as the recession hit. They were stuck with two buildings for many yers, and still have the old sales building, though the old service building is t least leased to an auto repair business.

As the economy came back, some new capital came in (at least according to rumor) such thaqt the Wilson family doesnt own it outright any more, and they then aquired the local Nissan franchise by buying out the dealer down the street.

I'm sure that they are doing fine financially, but there were some tough years due in some measure to the broader economy, but also due to making bad business choices. I do trade with them on occasion, (for recall work on my wife's Toyota, and a warrantee claim on my Sprinter. I think the service guys are ok, but I think the service dept is big on over selling, (as is most dealerships.)

The bottom line is I don't think they are very much different that our average local dealer. I just wish the whole automotive business would evolve past the sneeze and hard sell, and simply do what Tesla is doing. at least with Scion (Wilson also deals in Scions) you don't have to go through the whole " what do I have to make a deal today" BS. (you still have to deal with it if ou are going to fiancť or trade in however!)

Icarus

BRANCALEONE
07-22-2015, 09:46 AM
I'm shopping for another Sprinter, 2015 or 2016.I

Should I stop in Lynnwood o go up north?
I guess they loose a potential customer :thumbdown:

CheckMax
07-22-2015, 11:39 AM
Fundamental issue here goes beyond car dealers.

Dieselfumes entered into an agreement committing to purchase a vehicle with hard money down. This is a basic contract which the dealer was unable to uphold because of greed, incompetence or alien abduction.

Twenty-plus years ago this kind of behavior was probably pretty common with car dealers. Fortunately the Internet has become the great resource for information, misinformation and knowledge.

I agree with orevious comments. The decision to sell dieselfumes van and any associated benefit will be greatly outweighed by the negative impact on reputation and lost sales.

Lesson to dealers sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward. Monthly economics tend to make dealers blind to customer service and loyalty. The dealers who understand they want to sell several vehicles over 20 years to you are the ones that stand out.

Graphite Dave
07-22-2015, 12:39 PM
Well, only a chump takes a vehicle to a dealership to have it worked on after the warranty is over.

Maybe with a T1N. The newer Sprinters are so complicated that the average person or independent shop can not diagnose the ailment without a connection to a computer with the proper software to inform the computer operator (mechanic?) what the problem is. The days of you and I checking to see if has a spark and that the carburetor has gas are long gone.

The Sprinter has a planned failure in LHM that allows the vehicle to be disabled for sometimes unimportant problems. The last one I had to smile about was the discussion about what happens when you put the "key" in the ignition with the door open. Humorous. Or if you let the battery go dead from leaving lights on where you have to get it back to the dealer to "reintroduce" the battery to the vehicle computer. My biggest complaint about the Sprinter was LHM that can reduce power at any time. Not a good thing when passing vehicles. That little episode was what forced me to sell the Sprinter.

No choice but to use a dealer or the very few independent shops that have the required software and a computer operator that can use it. If you are lucky and have a good dealer (which I was), then just enjoy the coffee and pastries and pay the very high costs. For what it costs you should get a 7 course gourmet lunch.

This BS is not exclusive to the Sprinter. My new Transit also has a CAN bus with little electrons dancing around. So far have not read about any poor programing to cause stupid LHM.

avanti
07-22-2015, 12:53 PM
if you let the battery go dead from leaving lights on where you have to get it back to the dealer to "reintroduce" the battery to the vehicle computer.

Huh? Citation, please...

Graphite Dave
07-22-2015, 01:35 PM
Huh? Citation, please...

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=385426&postcount=116

That was not the case with my 08 Sprinter. My grandkids were playing in the van and left the lights on. Next morning battery was dead so I jump started it which I after learned is a no-no.

Maybe the newer Sprinters have this added feature.

I also read that new BMW's require that a new battery needs to be "introduced" to the vehicle computer.

avanti
07-22-2015, 02:01 PM
Color me skeptical on this one. Sprinters have a "master disconnect" feature (the one down by the accelerator pedal) that completely removes battery power from the vehicle. This is fully supported and people use it all the time. Now, I can imagine some kind of bug in some ECU that might cause a corruption under unusual circumstances, as might be found with an almost-dead battery. But I don't think it is likely that this is either intended nor common behavior.

As for BMW: There certainly are batteries (e.g., in laptops) that have built-in BMS microprocessors, including individual identifiers, so what you suggest is certainly possible. But Sprinter batteries are pretty clearly still dumb hunks of lead.

johnshmit
07-22-2015, 02:05 PM
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=385426&postcount=116

That was not the case with my 08 Sprinter. My grandkids were playing in the van and left the lights on. Next morning battery was dead so I jump started it which I after learned is a no-no.

Maybe the newer Sprinters have this added feature.

I also read that new BMW's require that a new battery needs to be "introduced" to the vehicle computer.

We must be driving the different Sprinters. My 2014 (and 2010) are as simple as Windows 95.
I leave lights on or doors open all the time. SAM shuts them off in 10 min.
And there is nothing wrong with jump starting it. It has a jump start terminal under the hood.

This urban legend was created because the Sprinter charging system is controlled by the SAM module and it is adjustable.
Given that software logic implementation is as simple as writing a word, it has some additional functions written. Like low voltage alarm, high voltage alarm and a few more cool things.
The only drawback is that the alternator has to be registered on the network in order to talk to the system. It is like exchanging a phone numbers in order to talk to each other.

jstar89crx
07-22-2015, 02:06 PM
Diesel,
This is an unbelievable story, what makes is crazier is that I test drove 'your' van. I saw it in the lot and figured it was sold but the next day when my wife and I stopped by I was surprised that they said we could take it for a test drive. That is a very cool but somewhat unique color. Right around the same time it disappeared from the lot a 170 Crew in that color showed up on the Outside Van website as being ready to covert.
This is all very discouraging. Coming from the tried and true honesty of the Syncro/Westfalia community this all makes me very nervous. I run a small local business, Wilson is my local dealer, Bellingham supports it own, but this just isn't right. I was trying to look beyond the fact that I know more about the vans on the lot than they do but this puts it over the top.
So yes, the Sprinter options book is about 300 pages long, but isn't it the sales persons job to at least familiarize themselves with their product? None of my technical specifics could be answered and no followup call or email from them with additional info.
I can't stomach the thought of having to do all the research myself and still have to pay a premium for them to basically pass a vehicle across there lot from MB to me. Especially if there is a chance they will just sell it before I get my hands on 'my' van.
I have been trying to find a Sprinter dealer thru the Costco Auto program. I found some posts from not long ago from people who appear to have bought the Sprinter thru the program and thru Wilson Motors but maybe they got dropped. Closet Costco dealers to the NW are now in California and Colorado. I guess a road trip is in store.

sailquik
07-22-2015, 02:32 PM
This just gets crazier and crazier!
The idea that a dealer would allow customer test drives in a special order "build and equip" brand new Sprinter is way over the top.
I was notified by my dealer within 15 minutes of the arrival of my 2014 Sprinter on the delivery truck from the VPC in Ladson, SC.
The Sprinter brand manager sent me photos of the Sprinter being unloaded off the truck.
By the end of the day the new Sprinter had been completely "new vehicle prepped" in their Sprinter shop, and I was sent photos of the
Sprinter on the rack with all the wheels off and the partition removed, awaiting my arrival early the next morning to swap the wheels/tires and move my modified partition into the new Sprinter before taking delivery.
The only ones who "drove" my new Sprinter were the guy drove it onto the delivery truck in Ladson, the guy who backed it off the delivery truck in Mechanicsburg, and the Sprinter techs at the dealer who moved it into the shop.
They did take it on a 10 minute test drive before delivering it to me, but that was just to check out all the systems and to run it over their rumble strip/speed bump test track to check for rattles.
When my fav dealer wanted to introduce the new Sprinter 4x4 the area rep brought a 4x4 demo vehicle on a trailer (it was a Netherlands spec Sprinter and could not be driven on USA roads) and we had a 4x4 Sprinter demo day.
Roger

Graphite Dave
07-22-2015, 02:37 PM
We must be driving the different Sprinters. My 2014 (and 2010) are as simple as Windows 95.
I leave lights on or doors open all the time. SAM shuts them off in 10 min.
And there is nothing wrong with jump starting it. It has a jump start terminal under the hood.

This urban legend was created because the Sprinter charging system is controlled by the SAM module and it is adjustable.
Given that software logic implementation is as simple as writing a word, it has some additional functions written. Like low voltage alarm, high voltage alarm and a few more cool things.
The only drawback is that the alternator has to be registered on the network in order to talk to the system. It is like exchanging a phone numbers in order to talk to each other.

I was just stating what I read.

I also disconnected the ground at the accelerator pedal on my 08 when I installed my vehicle powered inverter. No problem when reconnected. Maybe problem only occurs on newer vehicles?

New vehicles are starting to change when they charge the vehicle battery to conserve fuel. If I understand the idea is to charge when decelerating instead of all the time. Might be interesting to determine how this affects using the alternator to charge house batteries. My personal choice is to avoid the vehicles electrical system for house battery charging.

surlyoldbill
07-22-2015, 02:58 PM
Maybe with a T1N. The newer Sprinters are so complicated that the average person or independent shop can not diagnose the ailment without a connection to a computer with the proper software to inform the computer operator (mechanic?) what the problem is. The days of you and I checking to see if has a spark and that the carburetor has gas are long gone.

The Sprinter has a planned failure in LHM that allows the vehicle to be disabled for sometimes unimportant problems. The last one I had to smile about was the discussion about what happens when you put the "key" in the ignition with the door open. Humorous. Or if you let the battery go dead from leaving lights on where you have to get it back to the dealer to "reintroduce" the battery to the vehicle computer. My biggest complaint about the Sprinter was LHM that can reduce power at any time. Not a good thing when passing vehicles. That little episode was what forced me to sell the Sprinter.

No choice but to use a dealer or the very few independent shops that have the required software and a computer operator that can use it. If you are lucky and have a good dealer (which I was), then just enjoy the coffee and pastries and pay the very high costs. For what it costs you should get a 7 course gourmet lunch.

This BS is not exclusive to the Sprinter. My new Transit also has a CAN bus with little electrons dancing around. So far have not read about any poor programing to cause stupid LHM.

I don't have experience beyond T1n, but it seems that THEY are the orphans, which require diagnostic tools made of unobtainium. I think we touched on the future of car repair and ownership on another thread, so you may be correct that the newer the model is, the more proprietary the tooling and less likely it is to be accurately diagnosed and repaired by shop not certified by the manufacturer.:thumbdown:

DieselFumes
07-22-2015, 03:05 PM
Diesel,
This is an unbelievable story, what makes is crazier is that I test drove 'your' van. I saw it in the lot and figured it was sold but the next day when my wife and I stopped by I was surprised that they said we could take it for a test drive.

How did you like the suspension seats? Comfy, huh?

Thanks for this extra information. Wilson told me that the van "sold the day it came in." So either way, you were either driving a van that they knew was a custom order for a specific customer, or a van that was already sold to another person. That is pretty reprehensible, and bordering on theft (using somebody else's possessions for your own purposes without permission). I wonder whether they'd allow you to test drive a customer's vehicle that they had in for service, because in my mind it's the same concept.

It wouldn't surprise me if OSV had bought it. I know they were very interested in getting their hands on as many 4x4s as they could - Lynwood said they'd put in 40 orders on the first day of availability, mostly for OSV. I don't know how many of those got fulfilled, but the 4x4 platform is just perfect for OSV, Sportsmobile, etc. - that's pretty much what I was/am planning to do myself to my van.

Can you tell me what day it was that you test drove the van?

DieselFumes
07-22-2015, 03:09 PM
I'm shopping for another Sprinter, 2015 or 2016.I

Should I stop in Lynnwood o go up north?
I guess they loose a potential customer :thumbdown:

I don't have experience with the other dealers in the area, but from the Peninsula you could try Lynnwood or Tacoma/Fife area. Or, go with an out-of-state dealer who actually knows Sprinters and builds their reputation around selling them. Someone like The Sprinter Guy in Austin, TX. He'll often throw in a one-way plane ticket to sweeten the deal.

NBB
07-22-2015, 04:26 PM
a one-way plane ticket...
I flew to another state to get what I wanted in my Sprinter. No brainer in retrospect.

Local dealer didn't have what I wanted, didn't know anything about the product, didn't like them, didn't like their price. Cool I could take a test drive, though.

Given the cost in both time and money of these Sprinters and what it takes to convert them, plane tickets add basically nothing in cost.

I'd buy 3-4 of them round trip - no issues - happy to come back empty handed from a few trips - if I were to do it all over.

I recently bought a motorcycle from another state, deeply regret not flying there to test ride it first. Ticket would have been quite cheap compared to the money I've spent trying to make the bike into what I really wanted, and what I will lose when I sell it.

Just another perspective, if you are considering...

GeorgeRa
07-22-2015, 04:30 PM
Diesel,
This is an unbelievable story, what makes is crazier is that I test drove 'your' van. I saw it in the lot and figured it was sold but the next day when my wife and I stopped by I was surprised that they said we could take it for a test drive. That is a very cool but somewhat unique color. Right around the same time it disappeared from the lot a 170 Crew in that color showed up on the Outside Van website as being ready to covert.
This is all very discouraging. Coming from the tried and true honesty of the Syncro/Westfalia community this all makes me very nervous. I run a small local business, Wilson is my local dealer, Bellingham supports it own, but this just isn't right. I was trying to look beyond the fact that I know more about the vans on the lot than they do but this puts it over the top.
So yes, the Sprinter options book is about 300 pages long, but isn't it the sales persons job to at least familiarize themselves with their product? None of my technical specifics could be answered and no followup call or email from them with additional info.
I can't stomach the thought of having to do all the research myself and still have to pay a premium for them to basically pass a vehicle across there lot from MB to me. Especially if there is a chance they will just sell it before I get my hands on 'my' van.
I have been trying to find a Sprinter dealer thru the Costco Auto program. I found some posts from not long ago from people who appear to have bought the Sprinter thru the program and thru Wilson Motors but maybe they got dropped. Closet Costco dealers to the NW are now in California and Colorado. I guess a road trip is in store.

I bought mine from Lynwood through Costco program in late 2012 ordered and 2013 delivery. Very honest and sincere salesman Stan Pulsipher left Lynwood so this could be the reason why Costco dropped them. I go to Portland Freightliner for service and have good experience with them.

George.

wmlog
07-22-2015, 04:49 PM
... This is an unbelievable story, what makes is crazier is that I test drove 'your' van. I saw it in the lot and figured it was sold but the next day when my wife and I stopped by I was surprised that they said we could take it for a test drive. ... Right around the same time it disappeared from the lot a 170 Crew in that color showed up on the Outside Van website as being ready to convert. ...

It is absolutely reprehensible that a dealer would allow another customer to take a special ordered Sprinter for a test drive!

I was called immediately when my last Sprinter got to the dealers' lot. My last two Sprinters (2008 & 2014) were both special ordered and were prepped and ready to go in a matter of hours. Neither was on the dealers' lot for over 18 hours before delivery was made.

I think it's great that this forum is bringing people together and we are getting a little glimpse as to just how we (collectively) get screwed over from time to time. Now, we know that the dealer was giving rides in DieselFumes' Sprinter! It sounds like DieselFumes was out-and-out lied to. ... somebody 'has some 'splainin' to do!

Does anyone else see theft? Conversion?

Hey, the good thing here is that we now know where we can get someone else's car to take out for a joy ride!

---

DieselFumes -

Maybe OSV can upfit your Sprinter for you and then Wilson can buy it for you!

jstar89crx
07-22-2015, 05:24 PM
How did you like the suspension seats? Comfy, huh?
Can you tell me what day it was that you test drove the van?

Yes, suspensions seats were nice and the color was great :( The van had 11 miles on it when we got in it. They had to take it across the street for fuel before we could go. Returned it with 36 miles on it. Iowa St to Woburn to Lakeway towards Lake Whatcom, turn around at the lake, back on Lakeway, I5 to Iowa.

I know we drove it on a Saturday a few weeks ago, I'll see if my wife can remember exactly which day. It had been there a week or so parked in the corner display area right at the I5 off ramp/Iowa intersection. It was gone by the Tuesday or Wednesday after we drove it. I had been curious to drive one as we are deciding between 4x4 vs I4 and it's fuel economy and couldn't believe that they would have and unsold one in inventory. Sorry you have to go through all of this.

NBB
07-22-2015, 05:55 PM
This is sounding a lot like they are just way dumber than they are malicious.

I wonder if the second van was meant for Outside Vans. If it were me, I'd call Outside Vans, just to check in, never know what may come of it. Seems to me - given the premise that all 4x4s are special ordered and spoken for - either they ordered the OP's current van, or there is a 3rd van we haven't yet discussed (and a 3rd customer who will get the wrong van...).

BC61
07-22-2015, 07:20 PM
given the premise that all 4x4s are special ordered and spoken for

The manufacturer doesn't care who is attached to the order. If a dealer wants inventory then they will submit the "special order".

Nate
07-22-2015, 07:54 PM
My dealer in Hartford CT was the same, in the sense that when the van showed up he sent me pictures of it still on the trailer. It was prepped and ready for pick up the next day. It did have 6 miles put on it by the tech fueling it and doing the test drive.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

CheckMax
07-22-2015, 08:04 PM
The manufacturer doesn't care who is attached to the order. If a dealer wants inventory then they will submit the "special order".

Normally you would be correct except last year MB required every 4x4 order to have a specific customer and deposit tied to it. Dealers could not just order and stockpile 4x4s.

surlyoldbill
07-22-2015, 08:53 PM
Back when I bought new, I would always go through the fleet manager to get what I wanted (often brought in from another dealer) and I wouldn't go to the lot and kick tires with the commissioned sales staff. The price was already determined before I even saw the truck.

Graphite Dave
07-22-2015, 10:49 PM
Back when I bought new, I would always go through the fleet manager to get what I wanted (often brought in from another dealer) and I wouldn't go to the lot and kick tires with the commissioned sales staff. The price was already determined before I even saw the truck.

You and I went to the same school. Only go to a dealer before purchase to look at vehicles on back lot and preferable when they are closed. Never talk to a salesman. Determine exactly what options I want and send out emails to fleet managers asking for lowest cash price to about 8 dealers. Get about 5 replies. Call second lowest and explain to them that they are close but slightly high and ask them if they would like to sharpen their pencil. They usually do and below the original lowest quote. Next do the same to the dealer that was lowest to see if they want to reduce the price. All very business like and not at all confrontational. It is better to be in control than have the dealer be controlling party. When you get to the lowest price walk in with a check and sign the papers.

DieselFumes
07-22-2015, 11:19 PM
Determine exactly what options I want and send out emails to fleet managers asking for lowest cash price to about 8 dealers. Get about 5 replies. Call second lowest and explain to them that they are close but slightly high and ask them if they would like to sharpen their pencil.

I read this strategy on the forum and applied it. Test drove a van at a local dealership. Worked via email with the commercial vehicles rep at each location. Got the best price quote from Wilson (because, as they later admitted, they didn't know the scarcity and "should never have offered it for that price" (1/2 way between invoice and MSRP)). Never visited the dealership in person before going to pick the van up. Most conversations were in email. One was a phone call - probably so they could check I was for real. One was a text from them to show me the vehicle being driven off the trailer.

Dealer prep took from Saturday evening (when delivered) through until Tuesday. Prep did NOT involve cleaning out the cargo area floor or re-attaching a loose piece of exterior trim. Really not sure who drove it during that time but it had 20 miles on it when I picked it up.

I don't want to fuel any conspiracy theories about the provenance of the "replacement" 4x4 I ended up with. Wilson say they did a dealer trade with a CA dealership who needed a passenger van. Ended up with the 4x4 in return. No reason to disbelieve that. As to the motivation for making that trade..? I guess who wouldn't want a 4x4 on their lot?

DieselFumes
07-22-2015, 11:24 PM
Yes, suspensions seats were nice and the color was great :( The van had 11 miles on it when we got in it. They had to take it across the street for fuel before we could go. Returned it with 36 miles on it. Iowa St to Woburn to Lakeway towards Lake Whatcom, turn around at the lake, back on Lakeway, I5 to Iowa.

I know we drove it on a Saturday a few weeks ago, I'll see if my wife can remember exactly which day. It had been there a week or so parked in the corner display area right at the I5 off ramp/Iowa intersection. It was gone by the Tuesday or Wednesday after we drove it. I had been curious to drive one as we are deciding between 4x4 vs I4 and it's fuel economy and couldn't believe that they would have and unsold one in inventory. Sorry you have to go through all of this.

Thanks - exact dates would be awesome. Your experience helps paint a picture of something that you or I as small business owners could never - and would never try to - get away with.

Also, to clarify, they didn't at any point indicate that the van was sold, right? They were treating you as potential customers for that vehicle.

wmlog
07-23-2015, 12:09 AM
Driving expedite, I get the opportunity to go to dealerships in various states. The way I worked it was (1) decide my options and put them in writing, then (2) MSRP - X = my out the door cost, or dealer invoice + X = my out the door cost. (This was necessary because my vans were ordered before the current pricing had been established.) (Special Order Sprinters most likely cannot be bought for less than dealer invoice , as that action is usually only relevant to year-end inventory or vehicles that have been sitting on the lot for some time.) The MSRP is the same for everyone, as is the shipping. The invoice is the same in Norfolk, VA or Seattle, WA. Ask the commercial sales manager to come up with a price, i.e., they get to tell you what [I]their X is. You can get service from any dealer, and you get to choose! If a dealership doesn't want in, then pass them up. When your vehicle arrives, arrive with a check. I got bids for my business from Norfolk to Omaha to Minneapolis. It's business, and they are in it for your business, or they are not. If they don't want to deal, then why should I?

:thumbup:

jstar89crx
07-23-2015, 05:42 AM
Thanks - exact dates would be awesome. Your experience helps paint a picture of something that you or I as small business owners could never - and would never try to - get away with.

Also, to clarify, they didn't at any point indicate that the van was sold, right? They were treating you as potential customers for that vehicle.

We are very certain it was on Saturday June 27th that we drove the van. I saw it at least a week before that on the lot on display and it was during the beginning of that following week that it was gone. I know that doesn't line up with what Wilson stated regarding when it was sold but for that color, wheel base, crew, steel wheels, suspension seats, 4x4 it had to have been your van.
Never said anything about it being sold. We drove it first and then a short wheelbase 2wd I4 cargo. I wanted to see a short wheelbase crew for comparison but they didn't have any. They were going to contact me with when they would be getting one in or they were going to pull a crew seat out of another van and position it in the exact location of a short wheelbase cargo so I could visualize the layout but I never got a call or email back.
I am continually shocked by other businesses and what they feel are acceptable ways to treat people. We 'Do the right thing' for our clients, yes we leave money on the table, yes it feels at times that we are running a charity, but we sleep soundly at night, we make enough to be happy and pay our crew very well, and we have great repeat clients and a great reputation. Couldn't imagine it any other way.

DieselFumes
07-23-2015, 02:08 PM
We are very certain it was on Saturday June 27th that we drove the van. I saw it at least a week before that on the lot on display and it was during the beginning of that following week that it was gone. I know that doesn't line up with what Wilson stated regarding when it was sold but for that color, wheel base, crew, steel wheels, suspension seats, 4x4 it had to have been your van.
Never said anything about it being sold. We drove it first and then a short wheelbase 2wd I4 cargo. I wanted to see a short wheelbase crew for comparison but they didn't have any. They were going to contact me with when they would be getting one in or they were going to pull a crew seat out of another van and position it in the exact location of a short wheelbase cargo so I could visualize the layout but I never got a call or email back.
I am continually shocked by other businesses and what they feel are acceptable ways to treat people. We 'Do the right thing' for our clients, yes we leave money on the table, yes it feels at times that we are running a charity, but we sleep soundly at night, we make enough to be happy and pay our crew very well, and we have great repeat clients and a great reputation. Couldn't imagine it any other way.

Hmmm. Thank you so much for following up on this. The sales person I was dealing with said he'd been driving the lot every day looking for my van. Even if (as he claims) someone "put the paperwork for the wrong van" in my customer file, you'd think he'd mention the other 4x4 that was SITTING OUTSIDE THE FRONT OF THE DEALERSHIP for two weeks. And maybe look at the VIN to compare it to the VIN number he'd previously given me. And since he was in checking my order, you might think he'd glance at the specs and put two and two together. I guess when the sales rep said in email to me on June 26 "[your van] didn't show up today" he wasn't actually telling a mistruth. It did not indeed show up that day because it had already been on the lot for a week.

This starts looking less and less like a potential honest mistake and more and more like a cover-up. WTF???

obie
07-23-2015, 03:33 PM
Any BBB history on them?

SprinterSales
07-23-2015, 05:58 PM
Please allow a few points from a Sprinter salesperson:

If DieselFumes purchased a van for 15% off of MSRP, the dealer did indeed lose money, even after holdback and current incentives, although not a great amount.
Mercedes did not require a deposit on 4X4 orders. Deposits are determined by the dealer
Many dealers assigned bogus names to orders just to get the vans, knowing that they'd be sold to another party.
Customer names are not on the window sticker
In a busy dealership, a van could be sold to another party by mistake very easily, but only if the salesperson was not tracking his orders. My co-worker could sell my customer's van if I did not let him know it was sold. I track my customer orders almost daily and notify the customer every step of the way.

Some of the comments about salespeople are very derogatory and unfair. It is very true that some salespeople are basically crooks......kind of like many professions, but there are many sales professionals out there that truly care about giving the customer a quality buying experience.

I've been selling Sprinters for 7+ years, am very knowledgeable about the product and have yet to have a customer complain about the sales process I employed.

What happened to DieselFumes was deplorable and I think he took the best tack. Enjoy the Sprinter and move on!

gary 32
07-23-2015, 06:25 PM
Customer names are not on the window sticker

Few years prior I custom ordered an e320 wagon from mb, that sticker had my name on it also.

obie
07-23-2015, 06:32 PM
:doh: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

SprinterSales
07-23-2015, 06:52 PM
Gary, Your sticker is showing a 2007 when they were handled by Dodge. Having said that, I may be wrong as I don't spend much time looking at the stickers.....I'll have to look on the next customer order although I'm pretty sure I'm correct. I just asked my co-worker and he says there isn't a name either. Looks like we both need to go examine the sticker

wmlog
07-23-2015, 07:57 PM
... The sales person I was dealing with said he'd been driving the lot every day looking for my van. Even if (as he claims) someone "put the paperwork for the wrong van" in my customer file, you'd think he'd mention the other 4x4 that was SITTING OUTSIDE THE FRONT OF THE DEALERSHIP for two weeks. And maybe look at the VIN to compare it to the VIN number he'd previously given me. And since he was in checking my order, you might think he'd glance at the specs and put two and two together. I guess when the sales rep said in email to me on June 26 "[your van] didn't show up today" he wasn't actually telling a mistruth. It did not indeed show up that day because it had already been on the lot for a week. ... This starts looking less and less like a potential honest mistake and more and more like a cover-up. WTF???

You are being way to kind and forgiving. How hard could it possibly be for even the most incompetent Sprinter salesperson to find a special ordered 4x4 Sprinter on their dealers lot?

This has gone from gross stupidity of the dealers' staff to out-and-out theft of your vehicle a long time ago.

:crazy:

wmlog
07-23-2015, 08:01 PM
Any BBB history on them?

I'd say it was time for a BBB complaint to be filed - but the story just keeps taking weird turns and getting even more interesting all the time.

:idunno:

wmlog
07-23-2015, 08:22 PM
Gary, Your sticker is showing a 2007 when they were handled by Dodge. Having said that, I may be wrong as I don't spend much time looking at the stickers.....I'll have to look on the next customer order although I'm pretty sure I'm correct. I just asked my co-worker and he says there isn't a name either. Looks like we both need to go examine the sticker

As a sales professional, as you claim to be, why would you have to respond "having said that, I may be wrong I don't spend much time looking at the stickers ... although I'm pretty sure I'm correct"? You make specific and definitive statements, and then admit that you might not really know what you are talking about! That is called doubletalk - or, perhaps, actually lying. And then you wonder why people don't think much of car salesmen!

:thinking:

So, if you are to be believed (and why wouldn't we), let's do the math. MB MSRP is somewhere about 7% above invoice, is that right? And if someone pays 15% less than MSRP, (or up to 8% below invoice) the dealer is still turning a profit, although not getting rich, after holdback and other incentives, correct?

You say MB did not require a deposit on 4X4 orders, but this is contrary to what many others have stated. Why should we believe [B]you?

You say many dealers assigned bogus names to orders just to get the 4x4s, and that many are crooks. Ok, many car salesmen are dishonest and are crooks - we agree on something.

You wrote "In a busy dealership, a van could be sold to another party by mistake very easily, but only if the salesperson was not tracking his orders. My co-worker could sell my customer's van if I did not let him know it was sold." This is incomprehensible. Isn't it a salespersons job to serve his customers?

SprinterSales
07-23-2015, 08:34 PM
As a sales professional, as you claim to be, why would you have to respond "having said that, I may be wrong [because] I don't spend much time looking at the stickers ... although I'm pretty sure I'm correct"? You make specific and definitive statements, and then admit that you might not really know what you are talking about! That is called doubletalk - or, perhaps, actually lying. And then you wonder why people don't think much of car salesmen!

:thinking:

I guess you've never made a definitive statement and then admitted you might be wrong.
Lying? Why in the hell would I lie about something so insignificant? Your snark is noted.

Yes, I am a sales professional....and I don't sell cars.

NBB
07-23-2015, 08:38 PM
BBB requires a specific resolution that you are requesting. I's not a repository for complaints. The business is under no obligation to reply. It's a nice and quick avenue for low dollar stuff. However, there isn't really a reasonable resolution in this case that hasn't already been considered.

OP has it right - too much money to not get pissed off about, but not enough to cover the costs of trying to recover it. It will pass. The dealer will get theirs as well. People who pull stuff like this do so because they're desperate and don't have much money - because they're losers and they always will be - and so it goes. We do our best to avoid these people, but statistically it's bound to happen from time to time.

danielto98
07-23-2015, 08:40 PM
Please allow a few points from a Sprinter salesperson:

If DieselFumes purchased a van for 15% off of MSRP, the dealer did indeed lose money, even after holdback and current incentives, although not a great amount.
Mercedes did not require a deposit on 4X4 orders. Deposits are determined by the dealer
Many dealers assigned bogus names to orders just to get the vans, knowing that they'd be sold to another party.
Customer names are not on the window sticker
In a busy dealership, a van could be sold to another party by mistake very easily, but only if the salesperson was not tracking his orders. My co-worker could sell my customer's van if I did not let him know it was sold. I track my customer orders almost daily and notify the customer every step of the way.

Some of the comments about salespeople are very derogatory and unfair. It is very true that some salespeople are basically crooks......kind of like many professions, but there are many sales professionals out there that truly care about giving the customer a quality buying experience.

I've been selling Sprinters for 7+ years, am very knowledgeable about the product and have yet to have a customer complain about the sales process I employed.

What happened to DieselFumes was deplorable and I think he took the best tack. Enjoy the Sprinter and move on!

SprinterSales
Are you working for Mercedes Benz of Portland ? Based on YELP.com, none of the west coast dealers has 5 star rating including Portland dealer.
I am in process of ordering a 2016 sprinter 4x4 170 ext. After I read what has happened to DieselFumes, it is really sickening and I explore a different option. I own a Mercedes Sprinter chassis RV and loveit but do not want to go through what DieselFumes did.

SprinterSales
07-23-2015, 08:56 PM
SprinterSales
Are you working for Mercedes Benz of Portland ? Based on YELP.com, none of the west coast dealers has 5 star rating including Portland dealer.
I am in process of ordering a 2016 sprinter 4x4 170 ext. After I read what has happened to DieselFumes, it is really sickening and I explore a different option. I own a Mercedes Sprinter chassis RV and loveit but do not want to go through what DieselFumes did.

No, I work for McCoy Freightliner. What happened to DieselFumes was despicable and I can assure you that your Sprinter would not be sold out from under you if you chose to purchase here.

NBB
07-23-2015, 09:06 PM
I can assure you that your Sprinter would not be sold out from under you if you chose to purchase here.
It's so easy to just say things, isn't it?

However, you just got called out for making assumptions and stating them as fact. I wouldn't use you based on that single post.

I wouldn't use any of the dealer types that have posted to this thread, frankly.

SprinterSales
07-23-2015, 09:06 PM
As a sales professional, as you claim to be, why would you have to respond "having said that, I may be wrong I don't spend much time looking at the stickers ... although I'm pretty sure I'm correct"? You make specific and definitive statements, and then admit that you might not really know what you are talking about! That is called doubletalk - or, perhaps, actually lying. And then you wonder why people don't think much of car salesmen!

:thinking:

So, if you are to be believed (and why wouldn't we), let's do the math. MB MSRP is somewhere about 7% above invoice, is that right? And if someone pays 15% less than MSRP, (or up to 8% below invoice) the dealer is still turning a profit, although not getting rich, after holdback and other incentives, correct?

You say MB did not require a deposit on 4X4 orders, but this is contrary to what many others have stated. Why should we believe [B]you?

You say many dealers assigned bogus names to orders just to get the 4x4s, and that many are crooks. Ok, many car salesmen are dishonest and are crooks - we agree on something.

You wrote "In a busy dealership, a van could be sold to another party by mistake very easily, but only if the salesperson was not tracking his orders. My co-worker could sell my customer's van if I did not let him know it was sold." This is incomprehensible. Isn't it a salespersons job to serve his customers?

No, what I said was that a dealer will lose money on an MSRP less 15% deal. The holdback and current incentives do not add up to the other 8%. The loss would be small, but a loss nevertheless.

The comment was made that MB requires a deposit. Not so. MB couldn't care less if we collect a deposit. That policy is dictated by the dealer.

Of course its the salesperson's job to track the order and take care of his customers. My only point was that in a busy dealership, with nobody paying attention, a custom order could be sold to another person. That would be pretty sloppy but certainly could happen.

obie
07-23-2015, 09:47 PM
I guess you've never made a definitive statement and then admitted you might be wrong.

I can honestly say that I've never, ever, been 100% positive about something, and wrong.

SprinterSales
07-23-2015, 09:57 PM
I can honestly say that I've never, ever, been 100% positive about something, and wrong.


Must be single...

obie
07-23-2015, 10:01 PM
No. Never said I was never wrong. Go read it again.

wmlog
07-23-2015, 10:31 PM
Let's look at the professional salespersons' statements -

"What happened to DieselFumes was despicable and I can assure you that your Sprinter would not be sold out from under you if you chose to purchase here."

... Of course its the salesperson's job to track the order and take care of his customers. My only point was that in a busy dealership ... a custom order could be sold to another person. That would be pretty sloppy but certainly could happen.

Let's see -

It's a salespersons job to track orders and take care of customers, but it could happen, it would be sloppy, but it could happen. Apparently he acknowledges that the screw up could occur, but, at the same time assures someone that it wouldn't happen with him as the salesman.

It can't happen, but it could happen, and it might happen, but it won't happen. That's pretty definitive, but, then again, he could be wrong ...

My head hurts ...

Note to SprinterSales -

You are a car salesman.

SprinterSales
07-23-2015, 10:48 PM
Let's look at the professional salespersons' statements -

"What happened to DieselFumes was despicable and I can assure you that your Sprinter would not be sold out from under you if you chose to purchase here."



Let's see -

It's a salespersons job to track orders and take care of customers, but it could happen, it would be sloppy, but it could happen. Apparently he acknowledges that the screw up could occur, but, at the same time assures someone that it wouldn't happen with him as the salesman.

It can't, but it could, and it might, but it won't. That's pretty definitive, but, then again, he could be wrong ...

My head hurts ...

Note to SprinterSales -

You are a car salesman.

Your head is hurting because you're agonizing over a silly subject. You need to go outside for a while.

DieselFumes
07-24-2015, 02:09 AM
Whoa - let's all cool down a little. I think you're all violently agreeing about something.

What SprinterSales said echoes what I was told at Wilson, that there is no way of matching the order in their system with the van that arrives other than through the VIN. So, even though they had an order in their system with my name on it, my name was not on the delivery documentation. If that's true, it's kind of dumb. But as SprinterSales also says, it doesn't absolve the sales folks of responsibility for tracking orders and making sure a colleague doesn't sell it. In my case, it appears the van was parked in the prime position on the lot for a few weeks. That's long enough to notice it and apologize profusely to the person you accidentally sold it to.

Thanks also to SprinterSales for setting us straight on a few other things from a sales perspective. I think it's usually true that no deposit is required, but I also heard from several sources that MB **was** requiring a deposit for 4x4 orders. I was happy to pay a deposit because it showed I was serious about ordering the vehicle.

As to the price we paid, I am happy to hear we got a good deal. However, I think SprinterSales is falling into the same trap as Wilson did when they dealt with us - namely, focusing just on the profit and loss of the deal in hand rather than the broader customer transaction.

Some points on profit/loss:
1) The profit came from selling my original, custom ordered van for at least MSRP if not above ("feeding frenzy", remember?). Even with the potential dealer loss on the second van, I do not expect Wilson are in the red on this entire transaction. Sure, they didn't maximize their profit, and I hope that gives them severe heartburn for a long time. On the other hand, they didn't lose out. Also - why were they consistently trying to claw profit back from ME for THEIR mistake? Because Wilson weren't able to focus on the big picture and instead focused on "What am I going to lose on this transaction," they failed to account for the cost of losing future sales through their tarnished reputation. I'm counting three potential lost sales in this thread already. All of this is THEIR fault, not the fault of any other party. We've already seen that there's not much sympathy for the dealership here (I think you guys scared Julian off).

2) I lost out because the replacement van is being sold with options I really don't care to own, yet I had to pay for them (even at the discount price). There were only a few options I wanted on the replacement van that placed it above the base 4x4 MSRP, so in that respect, I payed more than MSRP for the parts of the van I can use. It would be nice to think I could take the other options off and sell them to recoup some of my losses, but we all know how sulky a Mercedes Sprinter would be if you tried to do that. Try to untangle the alarm system? No thanks! Remove the Becker without screwing the dash display? Unlikely.

3) I lost out because there is an exorbitant cost to retrofit the van to the level I ordered. I already mentioned the price differential for OEM suspension seats. Even aftermarket is more expensive than selecting options on the factory order. $800 for suspension seats is a complete steal! There are also some items that just can't be retrofitted, such as Active Safety. Can I live without them on the new van? Sure! Do I feel that's a cost I should bear? No freakin' way. I would willingly pay the price I negotiated for the original van with Wilson if they could put the factory OEM equipment that is missing in the replacement van. They know that's an even bigger loss proposition for them, so they steered way clear of making that type of offer.

So, thanks SprinterSales for suggesting that I got a good price on this van, and I'm sorry that you got taken to task for not being 100% sure about some things which seem to have been done differently for the 4x4 orders, but please consider the big picture before suggesting that Wilson made a loss on this customer interaction. You have to consider both vehicle sales, and the lower price I paid for the replacement van does not even begin to compensate me for what's missing, let alone the hassle factor.

avanti
07-24-2015, 02:40 AM
So, having meditated upon this talmudic question, I have concluded that the correct resolution would be for the dealer to reorder the vehicle that you originally ordered. When it arrives, there should be a no-cost trade-in of your current vehicle for that one. THAT would be fair.

wmlog
07-24-2015, 03:19 AM
So, having meditated upon this talmudic question, I have concluded that the correct resolution would be for the dealer to reorder the vehicle that you originally ordered. When it arrives, there should be a no-cost trade-in of your current vehicle for that one. THAT would be fair.

I agree, that would be reasonable resolution. But, I am assuming that DieselFumes is already personalizing his new van and making it his own, so he very well might not want to do this down the road, even if it were a possibility, which I'm sure most of us would admit 'aint gonna happen.

DieselFumes - good luck with your new Sprinter.

:thumbup:

DieselFumes
07-24-2015, 04:30 AM
@avanti and @wmlog - the dealer kinda-sorta offered this. As wmlog guessed, I'll have put an extra $15k or more into the van by the time a new one arrives just in components, not even accounting for my time at all.

Thanks for your good wishes. I think I've moved on from this more than some of the other folks in the thread. I'm still sore about it. I still don't feel there has been any real resolution because Wilson obviously still feel like they are the victims in this situation so they aren't ready to learn from it or truly apologize, but it's time to start making the van my own.

Nate
07-24-2015, 12:10 PM
My special ordered MB van doesn't have my name on the window sticker. Received it 4 weeks ago

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

gary 32
07-24-2015, 01:34 PM
Thanks for all the well-reasoned replies.

And maybe I'm a wuss, but I've had several experiences with snowy mountain passes where 4x4 has pretty much saved my ass.

Compromise
That's the path I took. It wasn't easy doing this. My observation was that the dealership will be nice to you only as much as it helps them to pump money from you. They are completely driven by self-interest. Like 3mbusa said, you will never outsmart them. My impression is that any threats/shouting/posturing are like water off a duck's back.

In the end, I was at exactly 15% below MSRP. I am not happy with that, but I'm accepting it and moving on. The van's a nice color, it has the most essential of the items I wanted, and if I can rip out some of the other options like the second battery and charging relay without causing the whole system to shut down (haven't researched that yet...), I may be able to recoup even a little bit more cash.

You did everything right.

Julian Greening can now help you by personally making sure only his best tech touches your van, every issue is addressed free of charge, it comes back spotless and better than received.

Best to leave all options in place, you may now have better options to make it your own, find the right craftsmen/mechanics to help you.

I predict your Sprinter experience will now be positive.

obie
07-24-2015, 01:58 PM
I predict he never sets foot at Wilsons again.

wmlog
07-24-2015, 02:17 PM
I can honestly say that I've never, ever, been 100% positive about something, and wrong.

SprinterSales, the car salesman, completely missed your point. And that, Watson, is the point. They don't even know when they are spewing gibberish.

:cheers:

danielto98
07-24-2015, 02:48 PM
DieselFumes

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

it appeared that you handled the situation very well.
If I were you, I would have gone ballistic. The agony takes over the joy and excitement of having the new vehicle (toy). eight month of waiting is long time.

Nowadays, no one takes any responsibility for wrong doing. The dollar sign takes over the dignity and principle.

Right now I still debate about ordering the 4x4 with options that I want. In addition, there is vibrating issue with the new design, 4x4, Mercedes and dealer have not resolved yet.

Enjoy your van.

ENMeyer
07-24-2015, 03:55 PM
Nowadays, no one takes any responsibility for wrong doing. The dollar sign takes over the dignity and principle.

This is the problem with most every single car dealer I've ever dealt with. If I do wrong in my business, I'll take a financial hit and make it right for my customer.

Car dealers, on the other hand, expect to PROFIT from their mistakes.

surlyoldbill
07-24-2015, 04:26 PM
I've heard that dealer profit off sales isn't lucrative. hey make their REAL money off of "service" department, kind of like move theaters don't make money off of ticket sales but clean house on popcorn and soda. All my experiences buying new vehicles, and learning from others, makes me avoid dealers like the plague. I am hoping the Tesla sales model becomes the norm. A friend bought a Scion once, and although the price was the price, the dealer still tried to do the con artist thing and sell "paint protection" (Armour All in a different bottle) and "undercoating" ($10 rattle-can on top of the factory undercoating), both for $350-800. They almost talked her into it, had I not been there.

One thing I cannot abide by is lying and confidence games to cheat people out of their money. That is what dealerships do for a living. Caveat Emptor.

CheckMax
07-24-2015, 04:51 PM
Right now I still debate about ordering the 4x4 with options that I want. In addition, there is vibrating issue with the new design, 4x4, Mercedes and dealer have not resolved yet.

Do you have a reliable source for this information?

danielto98
07-25-2015, 06:28 AM
Do you have a reliable source for this information?

There is a gentleman from Virginia. He is also on this forum. I have been following his thread and want to know the outcome of his 2015 4x4 van .

As soon as I find his thread, I will post the link

CheckMax
07-25-2015, 01:43 PM
He's had a bad experience for sure in a number of different ways. However aside from his experience and your perpetuation of his experience, I have yet to read from another actual 4x4 owner similar vibration problems.

There are several active 4x4 threads running without mention of this problem. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but the sample size so far looks pretty small to say that it does.

So far I haven't seen any independent confirmation.

GeorgeRa
07-25-2015, 04:55 PM
32 years ago,

Enjoy your van.

George.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTaTitRENDM,

danielto98
07-27-2015, 08:07 PM
Here is the link.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40881.

lindenengineering
07-30-2015, 04:36 AM
[QUOTE=GeorgeRa;388596]32 years ago,

Enjoy your van.


George
I once tried selling cars in the US ONCE in South Florida with a big dealership!
In short to sum up total sleaze!

I remember one punter looking for his potential Jeep trade in back and in desperation pulled out a snub nosed "38" and stuck it again the salesman's head. That got his attention!!!:frown:
But there can be dealership "winners"!
Like the guy that sold this sweet Hispanic woman a Pontiac Grand Am. She wanted a Vee 6 model, so the sales guy sold her a 4 cylinder model and promised to put the extra two cylinders on order for her due in at Christmas time! :lol:
Dennis

1jonhansen
11-20-2016, 02:10 AM
ALWAYS use social media: Yelp, google+, Twitter,... to describe about your experiences with retailers. Car dealerships especially, live and die by these public reviews and many of the salesman/staff get bonuses and evaluations based on these reviews. I would highly encourage you to copy and past your original post detailing the situation and your more recent one with the resolve.

This site/Sprinter Forum is awesome, but I didn't know about it until AFTER I bought my sprinter.... the general public uses Yelp, google, etc. more and more to make big purchase decisions (and smaller ones).

Here is the link:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/wilson-mercedes-benz-bellingham-2
and they are at 4.7 out of 5 stars. and it says "With so few reviews, your opinion of Wilson Mercedes-Benz could be huge. Start your review today."

DieselFumes
11-20-2016, 03:31 AM
ALWAYS use social media: Yelp, google+, Twitter,... to describe about your experiences with retailers. Car dealerships especially, live and die by these public reviews and many of the salesman/staff get bonuses and evaluations based on these reviews. I would highly encourage you to copy and past your original post detailing the situation and your more recent one with the resolve.

This site/Sprinter Forum is awesome, but I didn't know about it until AFTER I bought my sprinter.... the general public uses Yelp, google, etc. more and more to make big purchase decisions (and smaller ones).

Here is the link:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/wilson-mercedes-benz-bellingham-2
and they are at 4.7 out of 5 stars. and it says "With so few reviews, your opinion of Wilson Mercedes-Benz could be huge. Start your review today."

Did that back when this originally happened. Apparently Yelp didn't like my wording or my lack of other activity on the Yelp site.
"2 reviews for Wilson Mercedes-Benz that are not currently recommended
Note: The reviews below are not factored into the business's overall star rating."

Basically I haven't paid my Yelp tax by writing enough reviews for their liking, so my comments are downplayed.

NevadaBlue
11-20-2016, 04:18 AM
I worked for a software house for several years. I did a lot of pre-sales work supporting the salesman. We had a standing joke... (I'm only adding this because the whole thing seems to be resolved, no matter how badly)

The difference between a software salesman and a car salesman is that the car salesman knows when he is lying.

Vanzer Pagen
12-04-2016, 05:38 AM
OK, now I'm a little skeered. I ordered a custom 4x4 as well. Not from Wilson but a local deaer here in SoCal. I was told it would arrive by "late November" but when I pinged the salesman, got told it was delayed, but now in So Carolina and should be here early Jan '17. Not a real big deal as I'm laid up right now and can't drive no less start working on it.
But after reading this thread in it's entirety (hey, I can't move so nothing else to do) I'm beginning to conjure up some nasty scenarios. I guess I can olny hope the dealer I'm working with is at least straight with me on that.
I did however find out AFTER the purchase that some of the info I got from the dealer wasn't true, like passenger seat fitments do not come on a cargo, and that options can be individually ordered instead of getting a package for one item. Like DF, I was unaware of this forum so I went at it kind of blind. And that's not a deal breaker anyway.
But if I get a bait switch like DF did, I'll be really pissed. Color is absolutely key as are some of the option packages. Keeping my fingers crossed and have resolved to pester the dealer at least weekly.
Anyway, Nevada Blue, keep me in your seat loop, still interested and D Fumes, sending you a PM re B-ham mtb scene. hope to hear from you guys and all who may have helpfull suggestions.

DieselFumes
12-04-2016, 02:14 PM
I worked for a software house for several years. I did a lot of pre-sales work supporting the salesman. We had a standing joke... (I'm only adding this because the whole thing seems to be resolved, no matter how badly)

The difference between a software salesman and a car salesman is that the car salesman knows when he is lying.

...and a software salesman gets to make up new features whenever he wants. Car salesmen would find that harder.

DieselFumes
12-04-2016, 02:18 PM
OK, now I'm a little skeered. I ordered a custom 4x4 as well. Not from Wilson but a local deaer here in SoCal. I was told it would arrive by "late November" but when I pinged the salesman, got told it was delayed, but now in So Carolina and should be here early Jan '17. Not a real big deal as I'm laid up right now and can't drive no less start working on it.
But after reading this thread in it's entirety (hey, I can't move so nothing else to do) I'm beginning to conjure up some nasty scenarios. I guess I can olny hope the dealer I'm working with is at least straight with me on that.
I did however find out AFTER the purchase that some of the info I got from the dealer wasn't true, like passenger seat fitments do not come on a cargo, and that options can be individually ordered instead of getting a package for one item. Like DF, I was unaware of this forum so I went at it kind of blind. And that's not a deal breaker anyway.

Ah, no, I was VERY aware of this forum before I ordered. That's why I had a specific list of options ordered on the van rather than the default packages.

But if I get a bait switch like DF did, I'll be really pissed. Color is absolutely key as are some of the option packages. Keeping my fingers crossed and have resolved to pester the dealer at least weekly.
Anyway, Nevada Blue, keep me in your seat loop, still interested and D Fumes, sending you a PM re B-ham mtb scene. hope to hear from you guys and all who may have helpfull suggestions.

There have been reports nationwide of delays recently. Rumored to be about recertification of emissions controls for 2017 models. It's more likely that your dealer is just incompetent rather than purposefully evil. Lots of people working in dealerships apparently don't know what options exist on sprinters, don't know how to order said options, and can't use their ordering system to check status.

Hollow Wave
12-04-2016, 05:15 PM
OK, now I'm a little skeered. I ordered a custom 4x4 as well. Not from Wilson but a local deaer here in SoCal. I was told it would arrive by "late November" but when I pinged the salesman, got told it was delayed, but now in So Carolina and should be here early Jan '17. Not a real big deal as I'm laid up right now and can't drive no less start working on it.
But after reading this thread in it's entirety (hey, I can't move so nothing else to do) I'm beginning to conjure up some nasty scenarios. I guess I can olny hope the dealer I'm working with is at least straight with me on that.
I did however find out AFTER the purchase that some of the info I got from the dealer wasn't true, like passenger seat fitments do not come on a cargo, and that options can be individually ordered instead of getting a package for one item. Like DF, I was unaware of this forum so I went at it kind of blind. And that's not a deal breaker anyway.
But if I get a bait switch like DF did, I'll be really pissed. Color is absolutely key as are some of the option packages. Keeping my fingers crossed and have resolved to pester the dealer at least weekly.
Anyway, Nevada Blue, keep me in your seat loop, still interested and D Fumes, sending you a PM re B-ham mtb scene. hope to hear from you guys and all who may have helpfull suggestions.

When you placed your order your dealer should have given you a print out of the order. This print out is exactly what the MB factory is going to receive for your build. What you see on the print out is what your going to get. The dealer cannot randomly add options some have to be included in a package the build on the computer does not allow the dealer to add or subtract as they see fit. Your dealer should also be able to give you a build date once you have this it`s too late to make changes as it takes less than a week to build.


Did you already pay for the van? My dealer did not even ask for a deposit when i placed my order.

Vanzer Pagen
12-05-2016, 04:44 AM
Thanks for the hedz up gents. Your info seems to mesh with what happened to me except dealer told me I had about a week to make any changes because after a certain date the van was in build and nothing could change it. He did however tell me it would take 3 months to complete the build, then it would be shipped to the states, re-assembled and delivered to So Cal which would take approx.4 weeks.
I asked about a deposit and initially he said "no", but did give me a printout with all of the options, etc and the MSRP. He contacted me about a week later and said it was my last chance to make changes and at the time I didn't have any. Again I asked about a deposit and he joked that he didn't need one, my build was pretty hot and he'd have no trouble selling it. Don't remember but sometime close to that I insisted on giving a deposit and he did take (I think) $1k of which I have a receipt for on the original build plan.

As mentioned above I pinged him and got the "delayed" email. I then read this thread and it got my wires a little jagged but after hearing from DF and Hollow, I'm feeling more relaxed but I think I'll be a tad more proactive than I have been.

When it came to selecting options, I was pointed to the "build a Sprinter" site by a couple of guys who recently purchased vans. I did just that and took my little print out to a different local dealer and said "hey, can I get this in a month or two?" Not sure who was laughing harder: him when i asked him that or me when he told me " more like 12 to 14 months"
After i stopped crying I looked over what he had on his lot and he did have a nice selection of 4x4's, even one in the color I wanted and a similar build which I could have settled for. But it was sold, and he wouldn't even entertain an offer. I kicked some more tires and found one kinda close but noted to him that it had options I didn't want and asked about removing them or giving me a better deal. He politely told me no on deals as the 4x4's were very hot sales and the MSRP was the only price. Regarding the selective options he alluded that only a dealer could do that and not possible for a consumer. In retrospect, I may have misunderstood that to mean if I wanted to, I could do that through him but not on the consumer site.
I acquiesced, filled out a credit form and took a trip to my bank to see if they could beat Daimler Trucks Finance rates. While I was there I got a call from another dealer(B)I had faxed my print-out to and he tells me he can get me exactly what I want in 3-4 months because he supplies vans to a local up-fitter and has 3 "in the que waiting for build orders". I make the call and go back to dealer A to at least tell him face to face what I'm doing. He was actually a lot cooler than I expected but did go on about other dealers playing bait and switch, etc. and to be careful. If the deal went sideways to come back to him and we'd work something out. Later that day he did send me a text staitn he'd give me a nice chunk off the unit I was looking at.
I continued with dealer B but still crossing my fingers. If for whatever reason it does go south I'll go back to A and start over.

When I contacted dealer B last week, I did offer to pay for the vehicle, reason being to take advantage of the low rate Daimler had. Dealer said I could not purchase a vehicle I wasn't taking delivery off in a certain time span, but the msrp on my sheet was the price. Hopefully I can still find a good rate.

Funny, I think it was dealer A who pointed me here as I was asking about retro fitting some options. Now I know just enough to be dangerous ;)

Anyway, forgive my rant, hopefully it helps some other FNG and saves them time money and head aches!

kendall69
12-05-2016, 06:10 PM
Bottom line, you got owned, and you were used. Dealers are only allocated a certain number of vehicles UNLESS they are custom ordered. SO yours came in and they sold it for a premium. Then they attempted to pawn off a dog to you, knowing you would not take it so they could also see that one for a premium.

Your first mistake is thinking a dealership is remotely honorable, your second mistake is being surprised that their smarmy dealing.

The one good that came out of it was you got a free education.

kendall69
12-05-2016, 06:18 PM
This just gets crazier and crazier!
The idea that a dealer would allow customer test drives in a special order "build and equip" brand new Sprinter is way over the top.
I was notified by my dealer within 15 minutes of the arrival of my 2014 Sprinter on the delivery truck from the VPC in Ladson, SC.
The Sprinter brand manager sent me photos of the Sprinter being unloaded off the truck.
By the end of the day the new Sprinter had been completely "new vehicle prepped" in their Sprinter shop, and I was sent photos of the
Sprinter on the rack with all the wheels off and the partition removed, awaiting my arrival early the next morning to swap the wheels/tires and move my modified partition into the new Sprinter before taking delivery.
The only ones who "drove" my new Sprinter were the guy drove it onto the delivery truck in Ladson, the guy who backed it off the delivery truck in Mechanicsburg, and the Sprinter techs at the dealer who moved it into the shop.
They did take it on a 10 minute test drive before delivering it to me, but that was just to check out all the systems and to run it over their rumble strip/speed bump test track to check for rattles.
When my fav dealer wanted to introduce the new Sprinter 4x4 the area rep brought a 4x4 demo vehicle on a trailer (it was a Netherlands spec Sprinter and could not be driven on USA roads) and we had a 4x4 Sprinter demo day.
Roger

When I ordered a specialty vehicle I put in my contract that I would not accept the vehicle if it had over 5 miles on it. Second I send a SIGN that I demanded be placed in the vehicle upon arrival ( NO TEST DRIVES) . The salmon honored all my request and all was as I expected. :clapping: