Insurance coverage . . . Geico dropped me?

I just got a letter from Geico informing me that they are dropping me from their coverage. I called to inquire and they explained that this was in response to me adding a Sprinter to my coverage in January.

The crazy part: they are cancelling my other vehicle (Rav4) also. Geico literally won't insure me for any vehicle.

Consider that I'm 50+, have been with Geico for 8+ years, haven't had a ticket in > 15 years, and haven't had an accident in > 20 years.

WTF?

They just keep repeating the same line "based on the type of vehicle and our perception of how you use the vehicle, we won't insure you." They won't give more detail, other than it being based on "prior conversations with you." Which can only reference my original phone call to add the Sprinter to my coverage. They asked me if it was a truck, or used for commercial purposes, etc. I said it is licensed as a passenger car, and would be for private use only. Then I asked what I thought was a benign question: "how does Geico handle vehicles that are used for ride sharing services?" because I had just read an article about these services and the gray area w.r.t. insurance, so I was curious. Geico won't insure for that use, they said. "OK," I said. I figured that meant it would be a bad idea to pile 12 paying passengers in my van during occasional large events in Seattle. An idea I had spent all of about 3 minutes considering. Unfortunately, one of those three minutes was during my call with Geico.

On the call today, they asked again if the vehicle was used for commercial purposes. "No, never has been, never will be" was my response. Which is the absolute truth. But they still won't insure me. I offered to sign some legally binding statement confirming the use, but they had no interest in that.

Sorry for the rant. I'm fresh off the phone and venting. Somehow I unknowingly tripped one of their risk parameter statistics, so I'm forever rejected. Really frustrating.

So now I have 15 days to find insurance for both my vehicles, and won't have the luxury or discount of 8 years as a customer.

What insurance companies are people using for Sprinters? Specifically stock Sprinters and/or DIY conversions.

I'd certainly start (or parallel) by calling the Washington State Insurance Commissioner.
http://www.insurance.wa.gov/complaints-and-fraud/file-a-complaint/

800-562-6900, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday - Friday

If nothing else, they have the power to extract a *real* explanation from Geico.

My passenger Sprinter and cars are insured by Pemco. From back when they didn't know what a "Sprinter" was, and just took it on at "new car" value. 800-467-3626

--dick

I have never heard that happen before. If anything, insurance companies want to take your premium and then find a way to avoid paying claims when needed.

Hopefully you will find a better rate. When I moved to a new area I think I had State Farm or Nation Wide and wanted to change to a local agent. Had the old agent for 12+ years. Got a quote cheaper than what I was paying from the same company different agent. When new agent found out I was already with the company refused to honor the quote. Said it was an introductory rate and seeing that I already had a policy it wouldn't apply. It doesn't hurt to shop around every few years anyway to keep them honest.

Sorry for the frustrations you are having ... believe me, I hear you. I'm going through the same thing right now. My current auto insurance carrier won't touch the Sprinter because it's classified as a "commercial" vehicle and they can't quote me a policy on it. I'm also running into the same snag while trying to secure financing through my local bank.

My insurance company did, however, quote me a policy through Progressive which was reasonable enough, so I guess that's the route I'll go if I end up purchasing.

I understand the cargo and crew vans would be classified as commercial vehicles, but can't there be some leniency for the passenger vans? There are actually people like you and I that want to drive one for personal reasons only - nothing commercial about that at all. I suppose it's because it comes from the same construction, chassis, etc. But still ... it would make things much simpler if the passenger vans were classified differently, or at the very least, could be classified as "commercial" for commercial users, and "personal" for those of us who use it for personal reasons. It might even help more Sprinters to be sold as we wouldn't have to jump through these rings of fire!

I use Acuity for my coverage on the van. So far very happy with them, they quoted me $50 per month less than American Family and $80 less per month than State Farm.

Autostarex,

Thanks for the pointer to the WA insurance commissioner. I filed a complaint online and also called them. The law isn't on my side, unfortunately. Any insurance company can drop you for any reason whatsoever (exception being race/religion/etc) so long as they give you 21 days notice. Geico was real nice to give me 23 days.

To others: yes, I'm hoping I find a better rate elsewhere, and to h@#$ with Geico. I just hate that Geico can make such arbitrary judgments, especially when I am willing to be extremely specific about the use and sign legally binding documents.

I've got a 2014 Crew for which I paid cash, so avoided any issues w/ lenders. Licensing was also easy here in WA. Even adding it w/ Geico was a piece of cake, they didn't balk at all, just took the VIN, posed some questions, didn't act weird about my answers, and all was good. For 6 months. Little did I know that I had probably been placed on some underwriter review list, doomed to be dropped.

Inertiaman said:

I just got a letter from Geico informing me that they are dropping me from their coverage. I called to inquire and they explained that this was in response to me adding a Sprinter to my coverage in January.
The crazy part: they are cancelling my other vehicle (Rav4) also. Geico literally won't insure me for any vehicle.

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That is a sad story. I recently dropped State Farm and went with AMICA. My premium is based on the book value of the 2010 Sprinter cargo, 170, tall van + my cost for the van conversion. My annual premium is about half of State Farm'ssz and the deductible is lower.

SprinterWisc said:

I understand the cargo and crew vans would be classified as commercial vehicles,

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For US Custom purposes, a "passenger vehicle" has (a) side windows behind the driver's seat row and (b) seats behind the driver (there may be a requirement for "fully enclosed", too).
So a Crew Van is a "passenger vehicle".

All other fully assembled 4-wheeled vehicles which don't meet the above criteria are "trucks", and pay higher duties (25% vs 3%, at least for the "light duty" classification).

Here in Washington State (and was true in Massachusetts, too, when i left in 1974), the "car" versus "truck" categories follow those guidelines.

--dick

mels said:

That is a sad story. I recently dropped State Farm and went with AMICA. My premium is based on the book value of the 2010 Sprinter cargo, 170, tall van + my cost for the van conversion. My annual premium is about half of State Farm'ssz and the deductible is lower.

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So is your policy an RV policy? Or do they just treat the conversion as added value?

I've been hedging on if/when/how to tell the insurance company about the conversion. Until the work actually began, it wasn't critical. I haven't yet made any meaningful modifications to the van. My fear is that many insurance companies would outright reject a DIY conversion vehicle, fearing that,oh, say you've placed your AGM about head height behind the driver without securing it to anything.

Got a quote from Amica. They are 40.5% [EDIT 17% once I saw emailed quote and removed part of coverage] higher than my current Geico rate for same levels of coverage.

EDIT: Got a quote from Pemco. 18.1% higher than Geico at same coverage.

I do prefer Pemco's commercials. We need a "Pemco profile #26: Sprinter DIY Conversion Guy" commercial.

FWIW.

Hmm....I just got coverage for my 06 cargo and said it was for leisure. I went through Geico also since our car is insured through them too.

Oh man I went through the same thing. Only I am in the bus passenger business. But when my wife wanted a mini van and we added it to our personal insurance policy sure enough I got a call from the agent at work an hour later. Gave me the 3rd degree about it being used for work purposes. Told her if it was for work purposes I'd of insured it that way and if she had a problem insuring it I'd be happy to open the Yellow pages. End of that nonsense. IDIOTS!!!!
Sorry didn't mean to highjack your rant, but it sure feels good to vent with someone that has the same experience. Good luck hope it works for the best.

Inertiaman said:

So is your policy an RV policy? Or do they just treat the conversion as added value?

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Do not know the specific's. Try contacting: https://m.amica.com/m/products/products-auto.html

Well, you pays your money and you takes your choice. Some insurance companies compete on price and others on service. (and, sometimes the same companies do different things in different markets). I've had State Farm for 40 years, and they have dealt with everything I have thrown at them--from a 1971 VW Bus, through a DeLorean, several antique motorcycles, two Sprinters, etc. etc. The few claims I have made over the years have been handled flawlessly. I am quite sure that I am paying dearly for the privilege, though. I just can't get motivated to play constant games with the discount providers, even though I could certainly save money doing so. It isn't a matter of right or wrong, it is just what you value (or, in my case, how lazy I am). There is (most often) no free lunch.

mels said:

Do not know the specific's. Try contacting: https://m.amica.com/m/products/products-auto.html

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You said your premium was based, in part, on the "cost for the van conversion." So how was that cost conveyed to Amica?

I talked to Amica today and got two quotes (mix of online and phone) but in neither case did I see any place to "inflate" the value of the vehicle. After my experience w/ Geico, I'm afraid to ask them outright. My perception, reading the fine print in several insurance company policies, is that many will not insure "modified vehicles." So are people being upfront and still getting insurance on DIY conversions? Or are some able to just say "I want to insure this $35k vehicle for $50k value" and not face any follow-up questions?

Not picking on you and/or your answers . . . just trying to get a sense of my risks/challenges/opportunities ahead.

I bet the insurance companies work in a similar way to that of the banks - "If you have something of value, we'd better be able to track it". What would be interesting is if you had a full list compiled of all the mods you made to your van and the price you paid to make those modifications - I wonder what the insurance company would do if you threw that at them? Then you'd have some cold hard facts and actual evidence to back up your value. Now whether they believe that or not is a totally different issue ...

There used to be a NADA guide for conversion vans, but because of vast chasm between kinds and specs, that guide was removed from service. I would think that if you mentioned DIY mods to the insurance company, then you'd be looking at more of an RV type of policy than a standard auto policy.

SprinterWisc said:

I bet the insurance companies work in a similar way to that of the banks - "If you have something of value, we'd better be able to track it". What would be interesting is if you had a full list compiled of all the mods you made to your van and the price you paid to make those modifications - I wonder what the insurance company would do if you threw that at them? Then you'd have some cold hard facts and actual evidence to back up your value. Now whether they believe that or not is a totally different issue ...

There used to be a NADA guide for conversion vans, but because of vast chasm between kinds and specs, that guide was removed from service. I would think that if you mentioned DIY mods to the insurance company, then you'd be looking at more of an RV type of policy than a standard auto policy.

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I've heard from some that RV policies may actually be cheaper. I suppose because they assume you drive it infrequently?

As for the mod values, I'm less concerned about them underpaying a claim for vehicle replacement (not counting the mod values) and more concerned about them refusing to pay a claim at all if you didn't disclose the modifications.

But what are modifications, exactly? Geico told me "any change to the vehicle." I asked them if that included seat covers. Their response: "any change." But on the Pemco application/quote request, it asked if the vehicle was modified and went on to define it as "any change to the engine, transmission, tires or wheels or height of vehicle." Which, taken literally, would not include a vast array of modifications in a typical Sprinter.

Hey man, call my guys in Vancouver, connect insurance agency. They are an independent agent, and my rate dropped when I got a sprinter over the Tacoma 4x4 I had. They also bundled my cars with my home policy, and this was spurred by my home policy (American family) having a spike, and after the dust settled I got way better coverage on my house, for the same money as the proposed increase, and included FREE full coverage on my cars (x3) which all carry 1 million $ now. Same gal answers the phone, every day. Oh, and the parent company they wrote the sprinter though cooperates with my glass place, so I'm getting a new windshield on the sprinter for 50$ next week.

Inertiaman said:

But what are modifications, exactly? Geico told me "any change to the vehicle." I asked them if that included seat covers. Their response: "any change." But on the Pemco application/quote request, it asked if the vehicle was modified and went on to define it as "any change to the engine, transmission, tires or wheels or height of vehicle." Which, taken literally, would not include a vast array of modifications in a typical Sprinter.

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In Ye Olde Days, "modification" meant changing the car for purposes akin to street racing: adding a turbocharger, aggressive timing/crankshaft, changing gear ratios, chopping/channeling, etc. etc.

If you felt a "need for speed", then they didn't want to insure you.

Modification is an area where a friendly independent agent can really help... centuries ago i built a dune buggy: take old VW beetle, remove body, remove center 12 inches of floorpan/frame length, complete running gear change (elevating it to 14 inch ground clearance), tranny and engine change, fiberglas Myers Manx "body", roll bars ... called agent, negotiated a couple of "street legal" changes (mainly finger guards around moving belts and hot pipes), he delivered the plates and policy 2 days later, same price as original VW's policy (same VIN).
(in Massachusetts at that time, your license plates came via your insurance company)

--dick (very sedate...now)