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aaronschof
05-12-2015, 11:39 PM
Hi, u have recently found that my van will.not rev past 3000 in first gear and is getting restricted boost from.the turbo aswell, I just wondered what would have caused this, would a faulty abs pump that has been disconnected cause this? The pump was diagnosed as faulty and therefore disconnected, would this have triggered the limp mode as it knows something has been unplugged? Thanks

1109
05-15-2015, 02:14 AM
It could be your DPF is full and not doing the regen cyle any longer. When mine was plugged up it wouldn't rev past 3000. I could get up to highway speeds using the gears but 3000 max. Had to bring it into Sprinter shop to have a force regen done. Now I bought a scan tool do it. Good luck.

showkey
05-15-2015, 12:21 PM
It really could be any of several emissions systems that has an error or problem. EGR or DPF system are the usual first suspects. EGR and it's related sensors is common.

It could be must a split in the pressure side turbo hose, a loose hose and or loose clamp. The first hose suspect is the under the air cleaner that connects to the front of the turbo, it has an orange gasket. Sort of well known to come loose especially right after a service.

These are all just guesses at this point. Many of the vehicle systems on the Sprinter are linked, I am not sure if an ABS disconnect will cause LIMP.....thinking not but again a total guess. After you do the simple checks, a scan with a MB friendly tool is the next step.

aaronschof
05-16-2015, 11:36 AM
Ok thanks I'll have a look at the hose you suggested

1109
05-23-2015, 12:50 AM
Have you found the problem yet, interested to hear what it was, Thanks

aaronschof
05-24-2015, 03:14 AM
canni haven't found the problem yet, can died on me and now won't start at all, no crank.nothing, in the process of changing the ignition.switch and then will.report back
Thanks guys

aaronschof
05-26-2015, 05:50 PM
Mercedes 208 sprinter 2004 2.2

Hi I recently got my van back from Mercedes after changing the fuel lines etc, the van has been driving and starting fine, I filled up with diesel and left the garage one morning and the van went about 100 yards and died on me, the fuel ⛽ light came on, and glow plug light and it would.not start, just dead, no crank anything.

So far I have ruled out

Ignition switch (replaced)
Battery
Battery wiring
Starter wiring and drop tests, all seem.ok
Applied power direct to starter and it does crank but won't start

Now not sure what the problem.could be.

I'm loosing work and money by the day so any help would be great
Thanks guys.

aaronschof
05-26-2015, 10:11 PM
No luck, changed the ignition switch and cleaned the fuse box connections, and still no crank no start, not sure what to do, any suggestions really appreciated

showkey
05-27-2015, 04:37 PM
It might be better if you just posted in one thread and then updated as you go ???

If you jumped the starter and it cranks but no start.........then you back to fuel, fuel delivery, fuel injection and the anti theft system built into the body control and engine ECU.

I would suspect and just guess your ECU and wiring ( plus the water issue in both mentioned prior ) is the problem.

1109
05-27-2015, 06:24 PM
Any chance your transmission may be stuck in gear??? But you have power

aaronschof
05-27-2015, 07:14 PM
Yes have power, lights, wipers, blower works etc but dies nothing nf when you go to start, do you think this could be a key problem it's as if it's not recognising it again.

Thanks

aaronschof
05-27-2015, 07:17 PM
Yeah that's why I created this thread,
Yeah I have cleaned out the ecu and wiring, corrosion wasn't that bad, cleaned ground wire, still nothing.

I will.mention I had the same sort of problem before when I had a new key made and it wasn't coded. The key is coded and has been used to drive the van since then, I'd there any possibility that the key can desynchronise with the immobiliser and need re coding?

Thanks for the reply

Cheyenne
05-27-2015, 07:57 PM
I will mention I had the same sort of problem before when I had a new key made and it wasn't coded. The key is coded and has been used to drive the van since then, I'd there any possibility that the key can desynchronise with the immobiliser and need re coding?

Thanks for the reply

Have you possibly lost the 'chip' out of the key? Do you have a spare key you could try?

Keith.

gottahavabenz
05-27-2015, 08:03 PM
I don't know if this makes sense I am just spit balling, but when you replace ignition switch do you need to update the key chip with the new switch? Sorry for answering your question with a question I hate when people do that!:bash:

Cheyenne
05-27-2015, 08:09 PM
As I understand it the 'chip' is coded to the SKREEM and this code is read by a receiver 'ring' around the ignition switch. So when replacing the ignition switch the original receiver would be retained and the 'chip' would still be coded to the SKREEM.

If however you had lost the 'chip' out of the key then you would get a no start condition.

Keith.

aaronschof
05-27-2015, 08:58 PM
Hi
The chip is still in the key, the key was made by a local key cutting shop, and it is the same key I have been using up.until now, as I say I was travelling down the road and van just died, the glow plug light stays on and the ⛽ light is on too
Thanks guys

sailquik
05-27-2015, 09:59 PM
aaron,
The "⛽ light" might mean your out of fuel in the tank.
Have you checked the fuel gauge?
Might want to get 5 gallons of fresh fuel and add it to the tank if it's at all low.
Did this happen shortly after you filled up with diesel fuel?
Roger

aaronschof
05-28-2015, 01:28 AM
Hi Roger,
Well the cut out started after I filled up with fuel yes, literally as I pulled out of the garage, the fuel gauge show just over a 1/4 of a tank, but this light is on in the centre of the dash?, on the Mercedes website it says this is low-pressure light?

Thanks

sailquik
05-28-2015, 01:40 AM
aaron,
Does your 2004 2.2 liter Sprinter have the "in tank" booster pump?
Might be good to disconnect the fuel filter and pump a little fuel with
the booster pump to see what contaminants are in the fuel.
Also a pressure check of the booster pump output would be good.
Most of them put out ~75-90 PSI.
If the light is truly a low fuel pressure warning, then if you have the booster pump, your HP pump may
be failing, or the fuel filter is completely plugged.
I'm pretty sure you don't wish to go to a dealer, but you've been out of service for quite a while.
The MB SDS diagnostics would evaluate your entire fuel system, skreem system, if fact all the systems and
give you valuable historical (stored in the engine management computer) information.
Hope this helps,
Roger
Roger
Roger

aaronschof
05-28-2015, 02:49 AM
Hi, I'm not sure about the booster pump where would this be located? I dont think it has as a mechanic had to manually fill and bleed the filter before, the van has only just come out of Mercedes as they changed all of the fuel lines, including filter and water sensor, do you think the no start would be caused by this?

I have got a diagnostic which had various fault codes but I think they were all linked to the huge amount of air.in the fuel lines which they say they have fixed. And like I say I think they did as the van has been starting and driving up until this point.

To.be honeest it seems as if there is a problem in the wiring.or starter motor, as I had this problem before sometimes the van would start and sometimes it wouldn't, before though I used to get a click from the relay under the seat, now I get nothing, do you think entire starter may need replacing? Thanks

Aqua Puttana
05-28-2015, 11:51 AM
Hi, I'm not sure about the booster pump where would this be located? I dont think it has as a mechanic had to manually fill and bleed the filter before, the van has only just come out of Mercedes as they changed all of the fuel lines, including filter and water sensor, do you think the no start would be caused by this?

I have got a diagnostic which had various fault codes but I think they were all linked to the huge amount of air.in the fuel lines which they say they have fixed. And like I say I think they did as the van has been starting and driving up until this point.

To.be honeest it seems as if there is a problem in the wiring.or starter motor, as I had this problem before sometimes the van would start and sometimes it wouldn't, before though I used to get a click from the relay under the seat, now I get nothing, do you think entire starter may need replacing? Thanks
Your present problem may be unrelated to your previous issues, or maybe things in the fuel system have gone further downhill.

We don't have a NAS 2.2L 2004 in NAFTA land. All our 2004's have the 2.7L OM647 diesel with in tank fuel pump.

From your comments about air in the fuel lines it would seem that you have a mechanical fuel pump that sucks via the filter from the tank. The NAS aka NAFTA T1N's which have the mechanical fuel pump have a low fuel pressure indicator lamp on the dash. That indicator went away with the in tank fuel pump. So having a dash indicator also points to a mechanical fuel pump.

The dash light is telling you that you have low fuel pressure for whatever reason. Maybe your fuel filter is plugged? Maybe you have an air leak? Assuming a mechanical engine mounted low pressure fuel pump, one method to check is to substitute a temporary fuel supply after the filter. If you do that be certain that everything you use is extremely clean.

:2cents: vic

P.S. - If the chipped key were the problem then you would have "Start Error" displayed on the dash inset.

aaronschof
05-28-2015, 07:30 PM
Hi I understand what your saying but if it was just a low fuel problem would I get a no crank no start? When I have had fuel.issues before it has never caused a no cran, the key does nothing when turned to start, all electrics work

There's was a distinct buzzing from under the dash last week that I have havent had before, could this be connected?

Thanks

NORTON
05-28-2015, 07:57 PM
Hi, I'm not sure about the booster pump where would this be located? I dont think it has as a mechanic had to manually fill and bleed the filter before, the van has only just come out of Mercedes as they changed all of the fuel lines, including filter and water sensor, do you think the no start would be caused by this?

I have got a diagnostic which had various fault codes but I think they were all linked to the huge amount of air.in the fuel lines which they say they have fixed. And like I say I think they did as the van has been starting and driving up until this point.

To.be honeest it seems as if there is a problem in the wiring.or starter motor, as I had this problem before sometimes the van would start and sometimes it wouldn't, before though I used to get a click from the relay under the seat, now I get nothing, do you think entire starter may need replacing? Thanks

http://aie-services-2.net/Sprinter/05%20service%20manual.pdf
If you think it may be the starter or related wiring look at page 152 for more info

surlyoldbill
05-28-2015, 07:57 PM
Hi I understand what your saying but if it was just a low fuel problem would I get a no crank no start? When I have had fuel.issues before it has never caused a no cran, the key does nothing when turned to start, all electrics work

There's was a distinct buzzing from under the dash last week that I have havent had before, could this be connected?

Thanks

Sounds like you need a new fuse block under the steering wheel ($100). If you have no crank no start and the auxiliary fan by the radiator comes on when the key is in the on position, it is a dead giveaway that the ECU relay is not getting power or has failed. This is a common enough problem that the symptoms and solution are pretty well known.

312d
05-28-2015, 08:28 PM
starting relay it is good? under your seat.
post for us an instrument panel picture also showing the light

aaronschof
05-29-2015, 01:12 AM
Thanks for the reply guys I really wanna keep going at it this until we fix it, I have faith haha...yeah see before when I had starting issues the relay under the seat would deffinetly click, and if I left the van sometimes it would start, sometimes it would click several time's .
I must say when I took the fuse panel off to replace the ignition switch I did.notice slight corrosion on the pins, deffinetly a drink or two spilt down there before I think as was quite sticky.

Is the ecu relay the small fuse on the bottom of the fuse board right, next to the wiper relay?

Thankyou!

NelsonSprinter
05-29-2015, 01:29 AM
If you have a new buzzing under the dash when trying to start, you must find the cause of the buzzing, as this can be the cause of the No-Crank No Start via Canbus ECU communication

aaronschof
05-29-2015, 01:51 AM
Well the buzzing has gone now, this may have just been the door buzzing as it went off when the key was inserted and turned, this was when the van was running ok, I will test the starter relay with jump leads and get back to you tommorow
Thanks again

surlyoldbill
05-29-2015, 02:51 AM
Some people have had success with wiggling or pushing on the ECU relay when the van will not crank. It is next to the identical turn signal relay, on the bottom. Just for giggles, have the cover off so you can try that the next time the van will not crank. If that works, then you can forget all the other false leads and just get a new fuse block, which comes with all new fuses and relays already installed.

NORTON
05-29-2015, 02:58 AM
Steve Ball has an excellent write up in www.mercedes.gen under - electrical power problems Mercedes sprinter. about the fuse box

aaronschof
05-29-2015, 03:13 AM
Some people have had success with wiggling or pushing on the ECU relay when the van will not crank. It is next to the identical turn signal relay, on the bottom. Just for giggles, have the cover off so you can try that the next time the van will not crank. If that works, then you can forget all the other false leads and just get a new fuse block, which comes with all new fuses and relays already installed.

ok will try tommorow and get back to use thanks everyone. can i not just replace the relay if it is this?

surlyoldbill
05-29-2015, 04:10 AM
ok will try tommorow and get back to use thanks everyone. can i not just replace the relay if it is this?

It probably isn't the relay itself, but bad solder connections in the fuse block. Pushing the relay sideways or in harder may make those cracks in the solder close. If you want, you can swap the turn signal and ECU relays. If the turn signals continue to work, then it's not the relay.

Markthelark
05-29-2015, 06:14 AM
Not read all the posts , so sorry if someone has mentioned this before ;

There are three "relays" at the bottom of the fuse board facing upwards. The one on the far right is the indicator I believe , and I think the centre one is the starting relay. They are not relays in the old fashion way ! Try replacing this relay.

aaronschof
05-29-2015, 12:25 PM
Hi as soon as I'm.home I will check the centre relay and see if the wipers work as someone said, I was thinking more about the relay at the side of my seat I thought this was the starter relay? Isn't the other one the ecu relay or am I wrong lol! I did notice under the seat that the 40 amp orange fuse was taped over asif to.hold it in better, maybe this is the problem?

aaronschof
05-30-2015, 12:00 AM
Update
I have removed the square relay under the drivers seat and checked it with jump leads, the relay does click, so this means that it is ok right? What's the next check.I can do

Thanks

aaronschof
05-30-2015, 12:02 AM
I have also ordered a new relay for the one that is on the bottom of the fuse box, think this is the ecu relay correct?

312d
05-30-2015, 01:44 AM
relays have two circuits, you need to check both

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mru8BbTGDwM

surlyoldbill
05-30-2015, 02:02 AM
:doh:Geez, just check to see if the electric fan come on when the key is in the ON position. If it does, then buy a new fuse block. It's the fuse block, NOT the relay itself that is usually the problem. Try to wiggle or push on the ECU relay while the key is in the CRANK position, and it might get power and crank the engine. Check the relay by swapping it with the turn signal relay next to it and see if the turn signals work. The relays themselves rarely fail from what I've heard, though. :2cents:

aaronschof
05-30-2015, 09:35 PM
Hi thanks I will.check all.the relays that way when I'm.back with the van tommorow, and no the fan dosent come on when the key is in the in position , the fan Does work but has to be switched on as normal once electrics are on.

surlyoldbill
05-30-2015, 10:51 PM
Hi thanks I will.check all.the relays that way when I'm.back with the van tommorow, and no the fan dosent come on when the key is in the in position , the fan Does work but has to be switched on as normal once electrics are on.

NOT the DASH fan, the fan by the radiator...

mehr4x4
05-31-2015, 02:20 AM
I had/have a very similar problem. You may also notice there are more dash lights on than usual along with your cooling fan, not the dash fan. This is an indicator that your ecu relay, not the start relay, isn't getting a ground to activate it. Test to see if fuse 16 & 17, under the steering wheel, which is fuse box 1, are getting power with the key in the on position. I also thought it was the fuse block but after replacing mine it still isn't working right. I jumped power from another switched circuit to fuse 16&17 and the van will start. The center relay is the ecu relay, not a start relay. If it doesn't make contact then the ecu won't power up and it won't allow the start relay to work. One other way to test this is to jump the two large prongs on the center relay together and try starting it. I asked in another thread where this relay gets it's ground from and no-one answer me back :( I hope this helps.
Eric

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

aaronschof
05-31-2015, 11:10 PM
I had/have a very similar problem. You may also notice there are more dash lights on than usual along with your cooling fan, not the dash fan. This is an indicator that your ecu relay, not the start relay, isn't getting a ground to activate it. Test to see if fuse 16 & 17, under the steering wheel, which is fuse box 1, are getting power with the key in the on position. I also thought it was the fuse block but after replacing mine it still isn't working right. I jumped power from another switched circuit to fuse 16&17 and the van will start. The center relay is the ecu relay, not a start relay. If it doesn't make contact then the ecu won't power up and it won't allow the start relay to work. One other way to test this is to jump the two large prongs on the center relay together and try starting it. I asked in another thread where this relay gets it's ground from and no-one answer me back :( I hope this helps.
Eric

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Hi
How do I jump power to these fuses, or jump the two large prongs? Sorry I don't know what you mean, thanks

surlyoldbill
06-01-2015, 01:22 AM
:idunno:

aaronschof
06-03-2015, 01:06 AM
I had/have a very similar problem. You may also notice there are more dash lights on than usual along with your cooling fan, not the dash fan. This is an indicator that your ecu relay, not the start relay, isn't getting a ground to activate it. Test to see if fuse 16 & 17, under the steering wheel, which is fuse box 1, are getting power with the key in the on position. I also thought it was the fuse block but after replacing mine it still isn't working right. I jumped power from another switched circuit to fuse 16&17 and the van will start. The center relay is the ecu relay, not a start relay. If it doesn't make contact then the ecu won't power up and it won't allow the start relay to work. One other way to test this is to jump the two large prongs on the center relay together and try starting it. I asked in another thread where this relay gets it's ground from and no-one answer me back :( I hope this helps.
Eric

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

hi can you give me more information on how to do what you said, thanks

aaronschof
06-03-2015, 01:14 AM
NOT the DASH fan, the fan by the radiator...

if the dash fan does not come on what does this mean surly?, thanks

surlyoldbill
06-03-2015, 03:29 AM
if the dash fan does not come on what does this mean surly?, thanks

It means that one of the tires doesn't have enough air, and should be checked at a Mercedes dealership.

aaronschof
06-03-2015, 06:20 PM
Hi , put the new relay and 40 amp.Orange fuse in, still nothing, tried wiggling the fuse box and relays whilst turning to start and it is still dead, surly the fan is not coming on no and yes I have got a slow puncture I can see that on the rear right wheel, how is the tyres and fan related, thankyou

Markthelark
06-04-2015, 06:32 AM
Hi , put the new relay and 40 amp.Orange fuse in, still nothing, tried wiggling the fuse box and relays whilst turning to start and it is still dead, surly the fan is not coming on no and yes I have got a slow puncture I can see that on the rear right wheel, how is the tyres and fan related, thankyou

I think he was just joking , I hope he was !
Any luck with the problem yet ?

aaronschof
06-04-2015, 03:19 PM
Oh right ok , no nothing, have changed the fuses and relay and still dead on the key, anyone got any real suggestions?

aaronschof
06-04-2015, 03:21 PM
It means that one of the tires doesn't have enough air, and should be checked at a Mercedes dealership.

Thanks but I am trying to get the van back.on the road, it is my source of income and support for my family, so if it's just a pisstake It ain't no help

surlyoldbill
06-04-2015, 04:08 PM
Thanks but I am trying to get the van back.on the road, it is my source of income and support for my family, so if it's just a pisstake It ain't no help

A lot of people have offered advice and tips, but you haven't seemed to follow them, make absurd deductions and interpretations, and ask the same questions even after they are answered, so I assume you are just leading us on for a laugh.

If this is in fact a real problem and not a joke, I think by reading the content of your posts you do not currently have the ability to make repairs yourself, and should take it to a repair shop. Repair costs on a business vehicle are a tax deduction.

aaronschof
06-04-2015, 04:21 PM
How have I done that I have done everything everyone has suggested, so far I have

Replaced all fuses
Replaced all realays
Replaced ignition switch
Cleaned all sensors
Cleaned all wiring
Replaced battery
Done voltage drop tests on the starter and battery
Removed fuse panel tested for continuity
Checked fuel pump.pressure
Checked for leaks and frayed wires
Checked ground cables on battery and chassis and under seat

How can you say I am.doing this to lead people on, I have thanked everyone for all of there help after every suggestion, I have never once messed people about or.nor replied, I think your obviously someone who likes to cause trouble. Anyone can see I have been Co operative and I am genuinely looking for.help.

aaronschof
06-04-2015, 04:25 PM
And surly your last post you asked me to check to see if the fan came on and I replied saying the fan is.not coming on , you then decided to make a joke of it and mention a tyre, I have done.nothing wrong, I came here for advice, and I wasn't going to knock any advice from you or anyone

312d
06-04-2015, 07:46 PM
evidently some misinterpretation happened, just yesterday i was about to ask you Aaron if you were native english spoken. I am not, so sometimes make interpretation mistakes. Keep on struggling, you can do it.

surlyoldbill
06-04-2015, 08:01 PM
I think I and others clarified the fan at the radiator at least once if not twice before Aaron stated that the dash fan would not come on unless the key was on. Which lead me to believe it was a long farce. I think I'm done with this thread now.

aaronschof
06-04-2015, 08:59 PM
So what if you had to clarify that It was not th dash fan, what's so hard about that, I.only asked as I wasn't sure, like I said I have thanked everyone and have tried what they have said including yourself , I'd happily like to see you leave the thread, you seem to have got the ass about things because what you said didn't change things .. I honestly don't get why your so upset

aaronschof
06-04-2015, 09:01 PM
If anyone has any help or further suggestions I would greatly appreciate and reply as soon as possible as I have been

Thankyou

Cheyenne
06-05-2015, 06:43 PM
SOB, I'm not sure where Aaronschof is located (it may say upthread but I'm not going back to look) but in many none NAS markets we do not have electric radiator cooling fans. I believe these are only fitted when the van has Air Con fitted. Hence why Aaronschof was confused when you asked do the fans run when the ignition is turned on.

Aaronschof, I'm sorry I can't add more to help with your problems but the above may explain the misunderstanding with SOB.

Keith.

Aqua Puttana
06-05-2015, 08:34 PM
Aaronschof,
You need to get down to some systematic troubleshooting.

An easy first thing using a Sprinter friendly scan tool is to verify the fuel rail pressure while cranking. For reliable starting you need 2900 PSI minimum.

If the fuel rail pressure is good then I would next check for voltage at the critical pins of the ECM aka ECU. If the computer doesn't get the proper voltages, or ground connections are compromised then you will not get a start.

Replaced all fuses
Replaced all realays
Replaced ignition switch
Cleaned all sensors
Cleaned all wiring
Replaced battery
Done voltage drop tests on the starter and battery
Removed fuse panel tested for continuity
Checked fuel pump.pressure
Checked for leaks and frayed wires
Checked ground cables on battery and chassis and under seat

Many things have been checked, but that also means that many things have been disturbed. Perhaps double check that everything was put back together properly.

vic

312d
06-05-2015, 10:53 PM
SOB, I'm not sure where Aaronschof is located (it may say upthread but I'm not going back to look) but in many none NAS markets we do not have electric radiator cooling fans. I believe these are only fitted when the van has Air Con fitted. Hence why Aaronschof was confused when you asked do the fans run when the ignition is turned on.

Aaronschof, I'm sorry I can't add more to help with your problems but the above may explain the misunderstanding with SOB.

Keith.

for sure, mine 313 has A/C front and ceiling mounted, and it does not have an electric radiator fan from Factory, but the holes are there to put one in (not the wiring)

aaronschof
06-06-2015, 12:00 AM
SOB, I'm not sure where Aaronschof is located (it may say upthread but I'm not going back to look) but in many none NAS markets we do not have electric radiator cooling fans. I believe these are only fitted when the van has Air Con fitted. Hence why Aaronschof was confused when you asked do the fans run when the ignition is turned on.

Aaronschof, I'm sorry I can't add more to help with your problems but the above may explain the misunderstanding with SOB.

Keith.

Hi keith, I'm.based in essex, so I'm from the UK same as you lol.
Thanks for the reply

aaronschof
06-06-2015, 12:10 AM
Aaronschof,
You need to get down to some systematic troubleshooting.

An easy first thing using a Sprinter friendly scan tool is to verify the fuel rail pressure while cranking. For reliable starting you need 2900 PSI minimum.

If the fuel rail pressure is good then I would next check for voltage at the critical pins of the ECM aka ECU. If the computer doesn't get the proper voltages, or ground connections are compromised then you will not get a star


Many things have been checked, but that also means that many things have been disturbed. Perhaps double check that everything was put back together properly.

vic

Hi vic
I'm sure the fuel pressure was ok last time but I will re check it to be sure, the van isn't actually cranking, can the pressure be checked without cranking?

Thanks!

aaronschof
06-06-2015, 12:13 AM
Just thought I'd mention, I can't here the fuel pump click when I turn turn to the on position, and there are still no clicks under the seat, do you think this could be a faulty immobiliser shutting connection off to the pump and starter, someone on here posted before about how.older sprinters used to warn people of.immobiliser problems by a glow.plug light staying on, as I have.

Aqua Puttana
06-06-2015, 12:47 AM
Just thought I'd mention, I can't here the fuel pump click when I turn turn to the on position, and there are still no clicks under the seat, do you think this could be a faulty immobiliser shutting connection off to the pump and starter, someone on here posted before about how.older sprinters used to warn people of.immobiliser problems by a glow.plug light staying on, as I have.
Have you determined for certain whether you have an electric in tank fuel pump or a mechanical low pressure pump mounted on the engine?

The glow plug coil can signal glow plug system problems. The glow plug coil has nothing to do with the SKREEM. To my knowledge since at least NAS aka NAFTA model year 2001 SKREEM problems are announced by "Start Error" in the dash inset. Your 2004 has the same feature.

vic

NORTON
06-06-2015, 10:40 AM
Have you tested the starter motor and starter solenoid?

mehr4x4
06-06-2015, 10:15 PM
aaronschof, Sorry that I didn't get back to you earlier. Been quite busy. I'm actually on a computer instead of my phone so let me see if I can get this to work. There are several ways to confirm what is going on here. I'm not sure how much of this is exact for yours not being from the state's such as mine but I'll try to help.

When I have no power going to the engine ECU, or they call it the engine control module but we will call it the ECU for reference sake, the following will happen;
When I turn the key to the on position the engine electric cooling fan will come on, all the dash lights momentarily will come on but the "water in the fuel", "glow plugs", and "Oil" lights stay on and don't go out (Pic "No power"). Turning the key to the start position causes NOTHING to happen, no click, nothing.

I understand that your van may or may not have the same electronic engine cooling fan so i don't know if this applies but it is a symptom for mine.

When I have power and everything is working correctly the following happens;
When I turn the key to the on position the engine electronic cooling fan will not run, all the dash lights momentarily will come on and only the normal lights remain on such as the "battery", "ESP", and "Traction" lights (Pic "Power"). Ignore the check engine light, it's a glow plug module and unrelated to this problem. And when I try to start the engine it will click on the relays and start the engine.

If it were fuel pressure, or starter relays, or starter motors, or SKREEM problems you would have other symptoms. The first 3 listed above WILL give at least a click of some sort and the lights would be normal.

One "easy" way to confirm this is the problem is to remove the center relay (in Pic "Fuse Box1") and jump the two larger contacts with a made up wire. Use two "male" spade connectors (Pic "Connectors") with a wire and push them into the two larger slots (lower part of Pic "Drawing" ) This will energize the ECU and the van should start with the key. Shut the engine off. Don't leave the jumper in there as it will power the ECU all the time even with the key off. Just use this to confirm this is the problem.

If the above works then do the following until you and I can find a permanent solution;
I used a combination of male and female connectors to make jumper wires and fuse sockets to power up the 2 fuses for the ECU. I found some fancy combination male AND female crimp connector that had both spades on the same crimp. Sorry but I don't have a picture of that. You can just use a larger yellow spade connector and push 2 wires into the same connector, that will work to. (Pic "Connectors") I pulled fuse 6, 16,and 17 out. Make up 3 short wires, about 4" long with a Mc (male connector) and Fc (female connector). Then cut 3 more 4" long wires and crimp as shown in lower (Pic "Drawing") Push the Mc into the right side of fuse socket 6 and connect the first Fc to pulled fuse 6, then the next Fc to pulled fuse 16, then the last Fc to pulled fuse 17. Now take the first 3 made jumper wires and push the first Mc into the left side of fuse socket 6 and connect the Fc to the empty side of pulled fuse 6. Second jumper goes into the right side of socket 16 to pulled fuse 16 and then the last one goes into the right side of 17 to the pulled fuse of 17.

Now turn the key on and see if everything seems correct with dash lights and try to start it. I bet (virtual) money that it will start! :clapping:

I hope this makes sense. If not please feel free to ask questions on what I did. :cheers:
Eric

NORTON
06-08-2015, 11:48 AM
Mehr 4x4, That description and presentation was a work of art

aaronschof
06-08-2015, 07:37 PM
aaronschof, Sorry that I didn't get back to you earlier. Been quite busy. I'm actually on a computer instead of my phone so let me see if I can get this to work. There are several ways to confirm what is going on here. I'm not sure how much of this is exact for yours not being from the state's such as mine but I'll try to help.

When I have no power going to the engine ECU, or they call it the engine control module but we will call it the ECU for reference sake, the following will happen;
When I turn the key to the on position the engine electric cooling fan will come on, all the dash lights momentarily will come on but the "water in the fuel", "glow plugs", and "Oil" lights stay on and don't go out (Pic "No power"). Turning the key to the start position causes NOTHING to happen, no click, nothing.

I understand that your van may or may not have the same electronic engine cooling fan so i don't know if this applies but it is a symptom for mine.

When I have power and everything is working correctly the following happens;
When I turn the key to the on position the engine electronic cooling fan will not run, all the dash lights momentarily will come on and only the normal lights remain on such as the "battery", "ESP", and "Traction" lights (Pic "Power"). Ignore the check engine light, it's a glow plug module and unrelated to this problem. And when I try to start the engine it will click on the relays and start the engine.

If it were fuel pressure, or starter relays, or starter motors, or SKREEM problems you would have other symptoms. The first 3 listed above WILL give at least a click of some sort and the lights would be normal.

One "easy" way to confirm this is the problem is to remove the center relay (in Pic "Fuse Box1") and jump the two larger contacts with a made up wire. Use two "male" spade connectors (Pic "Connectors") with a wire and push them into the two larger slots (lower part of Pic "Drawing" ) This will energize the ECU and the van should start with the key. Shut the engine off. Don't leave the jumper in there as it will power the ECU all the time even with the key off. Just use this to confirm this is the problem.

If the above works then do the following until you and I can find a permanent solution;
I used a combination of male and female connectors to make jumper wires and fuse sockets to power up the 2 fuses for the ECU. I found some fancy combination male AND female crimp connector that had both spades on the same crimp. Sorry but I don't have a picture of that. You can just use a larger yellow spade connector and push 2 wires into the same connector, that will work to. (Pic "Connectors") I pulled fuse 6, 16,and 17 out. Make up 3 short wires, about 4" long with a Mc (male connector) and Fc (female connector). Then cut 3 more 4" long wires and crimp as shown in lower (Pic "Drawing") Push the Mc into the right side of fuse socket 6 and connect the first Fc to pulled fuse 6, then the next Fc to pulled fuse 16, then the last Fc to pulled fuse 17. Now take the first 3 made jumper wires and push the first Mc into the left side of fuse socket 6 and connect the Fc to the empty side of pulled fuse 6. Second jumper goes into the right side of socket 16 to pulled fuse 16 and then the last one goes into the right side of 17 to the pulled fuse of 17.

Now turn the key on and see if everything seems correct with dash lights and try to start it. I bet (virtual) money that it will start! :clapping:

I hope this makes sense. If not please feel free to ask questions on what I did. :cheers:
Eric


Thankyou very much for the detailed description, my electrical parts should be here tommorow and I will try what you have suggested, hopefully I can atleast get it back.on the road for now! I will keep you updated

aaronschof
06-08-2015, 08:27 PM
Hi just thought I'd mention I just re tested the fuses under the dash for continuity, and u have found fuse 11 showing a resistance if 1270!? The fuse shows continuity when pulled out but when inserted it shows this number and does not chime out like the rest, also I tested the 3 earth wires above the battery and one.of them will not beep on the continuity test, could this be my.problem?

Sorry I am.no.electrician but what's the best way to check the grounds to the ecu properly


Thanks

Markthelark
06-09-2015, 05:21 AM
Checking all earths is a good idea , including those on the engine block etc.

aaronschof
06-09-2015, 10:15 PM
Re checked the three earths above the battery and only one out of three shows a resistance of 6.5, the others have 0, is this a bad ground? Maybe this is the one goinf to the ecu that got abit wet? Thanks

Aqua Puttana
06-09-2015, 10:58 PM
Re checked the three earths above the battery and only one out of three shows a resistance of 6.5, the others have 0, is this a bad ground? Maybe this is the one going to the ecu that got a bit wet? Thanks
A no load test with a digital meter gives a hint, but isn't really a great test for grounds and conductivity. Anything higher than 1 ohm or so would be questionable to me.

If I had your problems I would dis-assemble the grounds, clean them, apply Vaseline or contact grease, and re-assemble. There are many common ground points in the Sprinter. There is the grounds you mention on the firewall. There is also a set of grounds over near the battery/fender. They should probably be cleaned too. That would be what I'd do in addition to the great procedure which mehr4x4 outlined previously.

vic

aaronschof
06-10-2015, 03:08 AM
A no load test with a digital meter gives a hint, but isn't really a great test for grounds and conductivity. Anything higher than 1 ohm or so would be questionable to me.

If I had your problems I would dis-assemble the grounds, clean them, apply Vaseline or contact grease, and re-assemble. There are many common ground points in the Sprinter. There is the grounds you mention on the firewall. There is also a set of grounds over near the battery/fender. They should probably be cleaned too. That would be what I'd do in addition to the great procedure which mehr4x4 outlined previously.

vic

hi vic,

i removed all grounds i could find today and wire brushed/vaselined them including ground under drivers seat, i am still waiting on the electrical clips to be delivered to me so i can try meh4x4 suggestion, hopefully they will be here tommorow and i can crack on with that aand hopefully get a start :thinking:

thanks for the continued replies i do appreciate it and we will win out!

aaronschof
06-11-2015, 10:25 PM
UPDATE:

The van has started!!
I tried what mehr4x4 said and as soon as I turn the key i heard the fuel pump click then the van cranked and started first time.

I cannot thank you enough mehr4x4, I really do.appreciate the help and detailed post you put up, I was literally running out of.options as you all know, thanks for your continued help, this is a great forum.

Just have to figure out the rest of the wiring as I've.only got round to doing the bypass part. But will crack on tommorow.

Any info as to why this works? I take it the fuse board isn't receiving/sending signal to start right?

Thanks

Markthelark
06-12-2015, 08:38 AM
Fuse boards seem to be a problem. You can get second hand ones on Epay for around £25 - £40. I bought one for a problem I had , turned out to be a bad one ! The problem got sorted , it was the very first thing I suspected , but didn't test it as well as I should have .

Aqua Puttana
06-12-2015, 12:41 PM
UPDATE:

The van has started!!
I tried what mehr4x4 said and as soon as I turn the key i heard the fuel pump click then the van cranked and started first time.

I cannot thank you enough mehr4x4, I really do.appreciate the help and detailed post you put up, I was literally running out of options as you all know, thanks for your continued help,
...
Thanks
Great news. :thumbup::thumbup:

Fuse boards seem to be a problem. You can get second hand ones on Epay for around £25 - £40. I bought one for a problem I had , turned out to be a bad one ! The problem got sorted , it was the very first thing I suspected , but didn't test it as well as I should have .
I agree that the FB #1 Fuse Block #1 does have some history of connection/conduction issues which may be the cause of a no start problem.

One caution is that even if Eric's Mehr4x4 jumper circuit allows enables starting, that of itself doesn't point directly to the FB #1 proper as the problem. The jumper solution provides power to many places so problems unrelated to the FB #1 cannot be discounted. That said, at around 100 bucks for the new part and relatively easy DIY replacement, replacing the FB #1 certainly makes sense.

One note about the dash light icons.

The Low Fuel Pressure icon is only included on NAS aka NAFTA 2001 - 2003 Sprinters with OM612 engines. The 2004 - 2006 OM647 engine models will only leave the oil level (Oil Can with drip) illuminated after lamp check. There is no Low Fuel Pressure indicator with the OM647 engine.

Eric,
Great solution! :thumbup::thumbup:
Have you put together a diagram of what the jumpers actually connect? If not, I plan to dig through and try to document the circuit. Does this work to by-pass "Start Error" no start problems?

vic

Added.

Position #6 20 amp is Windshield wiper so it is just a switched 12 v power source.

Position #16 25 amp ECU aka ECM power

Position #17 15 amp ECU aka ECM power

The 1/4" male to male short jumper connects the Engine Relay Pin 30 to Pin 87 (N.O. contacts)


68204

The FB #1 is not just a simple fuse block with a buss to supply power to the lines of fuses. It is a module in the truest sense. The fuse positions Eric uses are not powered all the time. Those positions are fed controlled/conditional 12 volts.

One caution in using the jumper solution. There is a delay in power down of the ECM aka ECU main computer to save settings, etc. If the power to that is removed too quickly it may affect operation such as the ability to store DTC's for troubleshooting reference. :2cents:

I haven't studied the schematics. I suspect that leaving the Engine Relay Pin #30 to Pin #87 may provide constant power to the ECM aka ECU even when the engine is shut down. This probably not a good thing over time. A SPST switch can be installed in the jumper to allow manual power down of the ECM. I recommend waiting about 10 seconds after the key is turned off before switching of the SPST switch. That will allow the ECM to power down normally and save data. Actually, if the diagram is correct, Eric's jumper for the Engine Relay may not even be necessary. The Engine Relay can just be left in place.

aaronschof
06-12-2015, 08:01 PM
Hi thanks for the replies, I will eventually replace the whole fuse board and see if it fixes the problem...And vic I deffiently have the low pressure light on my dash, it's the large fuel ⛽ light on the dash not near the fuel gauge, on the Mercedes website it says this is low fuel or low pressure \ fuel filter problems..

Funny thing is once I done the bypass like mehr4x4 suggested this light has disappeared, the only light that stayed on was the edc

I plugged my apparently faulty abs back in and now the edc light has gone off, see now I am curious as to whether to abs was ever faulty or not.
My limp mode only came about when the mechanic disconnected my abs.

mehr4x4
06-13-2015, 10:17 PM
Sorry again for a delay in posting. My phone broke and using an old phone :-( replacing the fuse box 1 did not solve my problem :-( Great point on my solution not allowing proper shut down. Glad to hear my procedure helped to get you back on the road :-)

Argh! I hate this phone :-(

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

aaronschof
06-13-2015, 11:08 PM
Hi mehr4x4
I am slightly confused about how to wire the part for the fuses, is there any chance you could explain that a little more as the diagram is a little confusing, thanks for your help so far!:bow:

aaronschof
06-13-2015, 11:32 PM
Once I plugged the abs back in the edc light has gone off completely, took the van for a spin earlier and I'm able to rev up past 3000 for the firdt time in ages, so it's out of limp mode, but seems as if it's lacking turbo boost, maybe my egr needs cleaning, can anyone tell.me where the egr is located on the 2004 2.2 t1n thanks

312d
06-14-2015, 01:00 AM
Aaron, i would post another thread with the egr issue, for the sake of order. A bit of advice if i may; get the EPC/WIS mercedes program (from ebay) and the service manual that is posted in this fórum, i will help you very much as it did with me.
by the way, my van dont have egr (thank god) from Factory
greetings

aaronschof
06-14-2015, 05:10 PM
Mehr4x4 does the yellow connections both go.into fuse 6 or does one go into 6 and one into 16 as you have shown on the diagram, just abit.confused, thanks

Aqua Puttana
06-15-2015, 02:33 PM
Hi thanks for the replies, I will eventually replace the whole fuse board and see if it fixes the problem...And vic I deffiently have the low pressure light on my dash, it's the large fuel ⛽ light on the dash not near the fuel gauge, on the Mercedes website it says this is low fuel or low pressure \ fuel filter problems..
...
Again, are you certain that you have an in tank electric fuel pump? On NAS aka NAFTA models the Low Fuel Pressure monitor /dash indicator went away when they went to the electric fuel pump.

vic

aaronschof
06-15-2015, 07:49 PM
Hi vic no the light was deffinetly on, it has gone off now after doing what mehr suggested, now just having boost problems, one thing after another haha

aaronschof
06-16-2015, 04:08 AM
mehr4x4 if i keep the van as it is now isit totally safe to drive, has this cured your cut out and no start problems for now? and please can you verify where the wires from the yellow fuse go to thanks!

mehr4x4
06-17-2015, 10:11 PM
Sorry, I keep loosing my way's to post on here! So frustrating.

I've had it this way for a few months now with no known problems. I still get my Check engine light but that is just the glow plug system.

I'm a little confused as to what your confused about with the wiring. :idunno:

What the end result will be is that you have made extensions for fuse 6 with the leg on the right feeding power to both 16 and 17. The left leg of the fuse 6 goes straight back to the left "socket" where the fuse came from. Essentially you are taking power from fuse 6 and feeding it to 16 and 17. I hope that helps a bit. If not please reply back, I'll try to do better to check in more often. Sorry.
Eric

aaronschof
06-18-2015, 05:30 PM
Ok thanks I was just making sure that both of the male.spades go.into.fuse 6, as in the diagram it looks like one may go.into fuse 6 and the other spade into fuse 16 thanks mehr

aaronschof
08-01-2015, 01:20 PM
Right new update I'm back lol
Van has been starting firdt time everytime after doing what mehr said.
It has been in limp.mode though, no boost.
Been driving like this as the van is my source of.income and I'd rather get to work slow than not at all!

Problem.is now the start error is coming up.on the dash every now and then, sometimes not letting me start the van, other times if I turn the key quickly, it will start normally!? Aby ideas what is.now causing this or is my sprinter just finished?

Thanks guys

stoney500
08-02-2015, 12:52 AM
If I remember correctly the digital start error on the dash means there is a problem with the electronics in the truck communicating with the transponder key.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

johnshmit
08-02-2015, 01:28 AM
Problem.is now the start error is coming up.on the dash every now and then, sometimes not letting me start the van, other times if I turn the key quickly, it will start normally!?

Thanks guys

Ignition switch doesn't power up ECU and SCREEM at the same time and authorisation message gets lost?

mehr4x4
08-02-2015, 09:09 PM
I've had mine wired up like this for several months with absolutely no problems. I have had SKREEM problems in the past but they were related to a "dirty" battery charger and dead batteries causing the SKREEM module to get confused. I have not seen any related problems with bypassing the relay in the matter in which I have. Now with that said I don't suggest this is a permanent or correct fix. It has just worked as a bandaid to get us running again until I can figure out why the ecm relay isn't getting a ground signal. Unfortunately it is working so my urgency for a permanent fix has quite diminished!
Eric

Sent from my Droid phone

aaronschof
08-02-2015, 11:25 PM
I am really stuck as to what to with it now I will.check the wiring tommorow.mehr and see if the connections are still good, thanks everyone

aaronschof
08-02-2015, 11:32 PM
I have realised mehr that the sprinters we have particularly 2004 have complaints of water entering through the bonnet and passenger doors, I know the grounds to the ecu are grounded there above the battery, do you there is a possibility of this causing the problem? I read on another site that a guy had all the starting problems that we have had and he re wired the grounds altogether and said it fixed the problem

aaronschof
08-06-2015, 12:41 AM
Anyone agree?