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View Full Version : What are 'drive cycle' parameters?


skyeg3
05-12-2015, 03:11 AM
I am trying to get my van to pass smog. And although there is no check engine light on, the smog guy's scan tool is indicating that the "egr needs to be reset" and to do this I have to drive a certain way for a certain amount of time. Supposedly this is called the "drive cycle"

A friend who works on German cars told me to keep it in 2nd gear and accelerate from 2,000 rpm to 3,500 rpm over the course of 30 seconds.

I've also heard to drive 55mph for 5 mins, 60mph for 5 mins, then 65 mph for 5 mins.

I can't seem to find anything on google or this forum.

Does anybody know the specific drive cycle parameters for a 2005 Sprinter? I'd really like to nail it on the drive and be done.

jcmadeintheshade@gmail.com
05-12-2015, 04:08 AM
I had a similar situation last year here in SD. I must have a 'minor' glow plug problem that activates the warning fault sometimes and when going for a smog test, I was told to drive fifty miles and reschedule an appointment when the warning light doesn't show up and it has a few miles on it since the last warning.

Starting a few times times, 4 or 5, always gets rid of the fault light. In this climate, glow plugs aren't a big deal and it always goes away after a few errand stops. Mine is parked most of the time and I notice if I use it more, this fault does not even show up.

When parked for three weeks or so, it does, and goes away after a few starts and stops. When I got the smog test, I took my chances and turned it off and on enough to get the warning light to not come on without driving the fifty miles he had suggested and no problem passing the test.

Lesson learned? Don't show up to the smog test station with a warning light coming on. Duh. I didn't find the need to drive fifty miles after the last fault light showed to pass the test, like I was told by the mechanic. Having it good and warmed up and not sitting for too long before the test is a good thing. Happy Trails. Thanks to all here.

SoaringBob
05-12-2015, 07:23 AM
I had a similar smog test failure experience today.

Mine needs a new DPF filter (P2BAD error code), and has since I bought it a couple of years ago. The Check Engine light will come on whenever I drive up a long, steep grade, which I do just about every day. The light will reset after a few start cycles, but today I cleared the fault with my Actron OBDII scanner, then headed to the smog station. Apparently the 7 miles and two starts before the check wasn't enough to reset the drive cycle monitors, so it failed. I had forgotten about the need for a proper drive cycle, and even left my Scanguage II hooked up. The test guy said the problem could be the Scanguage, but that's the first time I've heard of one causing drive cycle monitors to not register in the computer, as he suggested. Is this true, or has anyone heard of this before?

I topped off the DEF tank, disconnected the Scanguage, and will try the smog check again after a few laps around town and on the freeway. The tester said he would check to see if the drive cycle had completed before retesting!

2011 3500 long, tall, 192,000 miles

lindenengineering
05-13-2015, 04:35 AM
Drive cycle Monitors .

These are an indication to a tech that the system(s) is/are working correctly.
Every item that creates a CEL has a monitor.
For the purposes of this discussion we will deal with OBD2 monitors that are part of what makes up emission controls within the OBD2 control system working inside the PCM and their inputs .
The Feds mandated all NA import and domestic vehicles if OBD2 equipped have accessible OBD2 parameters. As such the manufacturers MUST divulge this information. Hence just about every code reader and scanner you buy has easy access to these OBD2 emission related monitors and systems.

If one circuit and component stops working and drops out of close loop then first it goes "soft code" fault; this produces a pending code or INConclusive reading on the monitor scan or OPEN.
There are generally about 7 monitors on the average gasoline engine and 5 on an early diesels with OBD2 control.
The tester is looking for them all to be closed although one can be open as an exception in most states. In Colorado the monitor closed test is for gasoline engines /hybrids only the CEL has to be off for diesels.
In California they want to see all monitors closed although again my test info says they allow one to be open but Cat and Oxygen sensors must be closed .

If you have a fault on one OBD2 system it won't allow the monitor to close hence an INC or open reading. Scoot about on scanner into the vehicle's PCM and usually in Global OBD2 you will find Pending if the fault code is "soft" going to "hard" and a CEL.

If you fix the problem and simply drive the vehicle with the CEL on it will eventually go away within three key cycles but the fault now eradicated will be stored in history. We as E testers are not interested in stored soft codes. If the system is fixed you can confirm this by selecting Mode 6 on a scanner to look at each component spec as a confirmation of its operation.

People with scanner and code readers as DIYrs who are often self trained or untrained make a huge mistake of clearing the codes whether closed or not, making them all have to go through the drive ALL cycles progressively to close! This can take ages when a Cat(s) monitor is involved . Doesn't make sense when perhaps 90 % often were already closed before the clear took place.
This is why you often get the prompt about doing a full clear when you about to erase a fault code creating a CEL.
I never do this full clear because I want to fix it fast for an E test so I look at each individual fault , fix it, leave the light on then drive the beast closing that particular monitor then cycle the key three times to clear the fault and the put the CEL light out.
In full clear cases you will have do do a cold soak test to make the system wake up and run through it monitors. That means the rig must sit overnight for a cold start up observing the monitors on the scanner.
So clearing codes is willynilly is silly--wastes time effort and money.
If you want to see what monitors haven't closed go to Global OBD and select monitors. You will then see what the tester is seeing when he kicks your rig out as failed !
Hope that makes sense cos my monitors are closed now!:hugs:
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc
Colorado state E approved & registered repair shop.

skyeg3
05-13-2015, 06:03 AM
Thanks for all that info lindenengineering! That helped a lot.

I just checked out the California BAR-OIS rules and apparently since May 8th 2015, all monitors must be closed for diesel vehicles 98-2006. 2007 and newer can have 2 open.

Here is the reference for that:

https://www.bar.ca.gov/Industry/BAR-OIS_QA1.html

F*@k!

SoaringBob
05-13-2015, 08:28 AM
Dennis, thanks for going into such detail! I discovered much of what you said the hard way. I wasn't sure of how to use all the features of my Actron scanner, but after playing with it yesterday, and after reading your post, things are starting to fall into place. Wish I had read the post before making another trip to the smog station.

Skyeg3, thanks for the great link, albeit filled with bad news for California owners!

What the smog guy told me was that I still had 4 or 5 Incomplete monitors, and two fault codes were pending, which he said would convert to the CEL coming on when the drive cycle monitors had all been satisfied. I reminded him that two years ago he told me it would pass as long as the CEL was not illuminated, but then he mentioned California had changed the rules recently (the bar.ca.gov link). The new rules do say up to 2 Incomplete monitors can be open, but no DTC's allowed. I take it that the two pending fault codes are DTC's, so it won't pass even if the two allowed Incomplete monitors remain open. The two faults are P2BAD and P2BA9, which I think are related to the DPF, and DEF liquid quality.

It might be possible to clear the fault codes and have the CEL remain off with 2 Inc monitors open, but I think there are too many "if's" involved for everything to fall into place just as I arrive at the smog station. I'm going to have to bite the bullet and head to the dealer for an expensive DPF replace job, which is probably long overdue. At least I learned that the smog guy is honest, as he was not trolling for repair work. He works on mostly foreign vehicles, but Sprinters are too tall to raise on his hoist without hitting the ceiling!

lindenengineering
05-13-2015, 11:17 AM
Guys
I will take a look and see what monitors are being looked at on a 2005 T1n & 2011 NCV3
I generally don't look to see on diesel stuff here in CO because as long as the light is off it usually passes.

As a footnote.
Colorado has basically emulated the Californian E model for gasoline & hybrid vehicles over 5 years old since Jan of this year.
Diesels have basically remained the same but that will no doubt be the next sector that will come under the monitor hammer soon.

Outlook.
I consider that with the recent announcement that CO2 in the atmosphere has passed the 400ppm benchmark there will be some draconian clampdown in the vehicle emission sector nationwide and its coming in the near future probably more sooner than later.
Of the odd symposium I have attended on this issue the move to burning less fossil fuels and a carbon tax will be the next unpleasant implementation. The current E compliance problems faced is just an inconvenience so enjoy it while it lasts!
If "enjoy" can be an operative word.:idunno:
Even in my shop I/We have fixed 4 electric cars this week alone, that is an outstanding number compared to last year where we fixed only one. (a Coda)
Dennis

lindenengineering
05-13-2015, 03:17 PM
Checking the monitors
For a Tinny there are three monitors.

Missfire Monitor
Fuel system Monitor
EGR/VVT system Monitor.

As a comment on most T1N models if it running right, then the only variable not so easily closed is the EGR monitor.
By the way VVT--(Variable valve timing)
Not applicable in your application.

I use the monitors as an aid to diagnostics and by simply interogating with global OBD2 you can pinpoint the source of your CEL within seconds .
I use a Creader 4 something like this.
http://www.amazon.com/Launch-Tech-USA-301050049-Creader/dp/B002YXTZKC


Now for a 2011 Sprinter many more monitors. No surprises there!

Missfire Monitor
Fuel system Monitor
Comprehensive Component Monitor
NMHC Cat Monitor
Nox Monitor
Boost Pressure Monitor
Exhaust Gas Sensor
PM Filter Monitor
EGR/VVT Monitor
Nine in total to play with. :hugs::laughing:
Cheers Dennis

SoaringBob
05-14-2015, 06:17 AM
9 monitor's, that's just what I have! After driving more today I'm down to 3 Incomplete's. My scanner has different names for some of the monitors, but the 3 that remain open probably mean big $$$ if they don't clear. They are Oxygen Sensor Monitor, Oxygen Sensor Htr, and Catalyst Monitor.

The P2BA9 fault may be due to my adding DEF a couple of days ago. Last time I added DEF it triggered a 20 Restart countdown, which was followed by a DEF check message a few minutes later and the problem was cleared. Today the same thing happened (nasty sounding beeps and restart countdown message on dash) and all seemed good after the DEF check message, but the fault code remains in the scanner. I'll give it through the weekend to see if more of the Incomplete monitors close, then I have a date with the dealer's MB Star scanner.

Sorry to hear our governor moonbeam is exporting smog law to Colorado, and nationwide. I wonder if he realizes I added needless carbon to the atmosphere today just aimlessly driving around trying to complete the drive cycle!

I think fossil fuels' years may be numbered anyway, and a couple score years from now gas may once again be an item only stocked on the shelves of hardware stores, or at Walmart just so you'll be able to take your classic '55 Chevy out for a Sunday drive! Remember way back to 1989 when a couple of scientists named Pons and Fleischmann made fools out of themselves by claiming they had discovered cold fusion (now called low energy nuclear reaction, or LENR) in a jar containing palladium and heavy water? They were labeled fools, and chased out of the country, because success in duplicating their discovery alluded most everyone. But about 4 years later it was discovered how it could be duplicated with regularity, and at least a 1000 scientists have since been able to make it work. Two or three companies are seriously working on bringing this cheap and clean source of power to market, with the E-cat being the most well known (google it for pros and cons). The E-cat may well prove to be a hoax, but if it is, a lot of well known physicist's will have egg on their faces. No matter, as the technology is for real, and sooner or later it will become available.

skyeg3
05-21-2015, 06:10 PM
Here are the supposed drive cycle parameters for the sprinter:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99645311@N08/17940794401/in/dateposted-public/

skyeg3
05-21-2015, 06:21 PM
In case anyone is still viewing this thread and can help...

I still havnt gotten my egr/vvt module to close despite a few days of driving. There is no check engine light on. The van stalls immediately after warm startup on occasion. Always starts second time. I havn't been able to track down a DAD to scan for codes..

This is getting super frusterating

lindenengineering
05-21-2015, 07:16 PM
Yes I am following it!
Simply because this is coming folks to a neighbourhood near you--even places like Wyoming which have NO test at all.

Now there must be no pending codes or hidden malfunctions for it to close.
I confess I have seen few with the EGR monitor closed.

If it won't close then consult a dealer with emission and EPA conditions in mind.
I mention this because on one hybrid I was dealing with wouldn't close its Cat monitor. Traditionally in Colorado Hybrids were exempt but once the monitor checks were introduced this issue popped up and they FAILED.

The local authorites pressured the manufacturer and a reflash was inroduced.
Its just possible that your rig might need a reflash.
A possible suggestion to consider.
Keep us posted --very interested to follow the outcome.
Cheers dennis

namtra
07-02-2015, 04:08 AM
Hi guys,

If anyone is still following this....I have the EXACT same issue on my 2005 Sprinter 140. I took it to get smogged by a test only facility and the smog guy failed it in the system... stating the EGR was incomplete. He told me I just need to drive it. I put about 1k miles on it... no check engine light, EGR still incomplete. I went ahead and replace the EGR ($800 for an OEM one) ...put another 1000 miles on it. Still no light and EGR incomplete.

Had a few smog shops look at it. Took it to a Sprinter Dealer they said it's a known issue with Sprinter. Called Chrysler Emissions Dept. and Customer Service ...got nowhere. Took it to the California Smog Referee... nice guy, told me he's seen a few of these lately. But, because Dodge has not owned up to the issue (which would probably mean a recall and lots of $$$), he couldn't push it through as its not officially a "bug".

Sooooooooooo, I have a really nice Sprinter Van with low miles that runs flawlessly ...that I can't register.

Gabriel
07-14-2015, 03:13 PM
Hi guys,

Sooooooooooo, I have a really nice Sprinter Van with low miles that runs flawlessly ...that I can't register.

Maybe you can swap ECU's?

I have a 2004 Sprinter 158. After I clear some glow plug codes, I'll be going through the same saga. My EGR won't close either.

EvHarris7
07-14-2015, 08:58 PM
I am headed into SMOG today for the same issue in SOCAL, this is not re-assuring. I took it in 3 weeks ago, everything passed except the EGR was "Not Ready", they told me to drive it for a few weeks, I put about 1k on it. Fingers crossed, I am about to head there now.

California just passed the law in May that you cannot have any open checks on certain year diesels.

hayduke
07-14-2015, 09:26 PM
What happens with this issue with a GDE tune?

EvHarris7
07-14-2015, 10:33 PM
Well, it is still showing Open/Not Ready.

I don't have any stored codes, or mechanical problems. I guess the next step is talking with Dodge. They will have to come up with a fix, since T1N's will not pass when they need to renew registration in CA now if it is common for the EGR to not be in Ready mode.

Has anyone gotten a dealer to sort it out for them?

Gabriel
07-14-2015, 11:48 PM
Here's another question: Has anyone passed smog in California in the past couple of months?

RB7
07-19-2015, 04:14 AM
Mine passed 3 weeks ago. 2006 T1N with 112K miles. I believe all they do is look for any codes, do a visual inspection and then look for smoke when they rev. it. One reason I bought a diesel was to not have to do this...

GreenDiesel
07-19-2015, 11:53 AM
What happens with this issue with a GDE tune?

All Sprinters running GDE tunes 2002-2008 will pass with flying colors and the monitors will be set to ready/complete. If your rig is having issues, the tune will help in most cases barring a real hardware problem.

Fixitman
08-07-2015, 06:09 AM
I am having a similar problem with my 2006 Sprinter. I failed smog in May. "EGR monitor not ready". No faults or engine light. I've tried every imaginable drive cycle and have driven many thousands of miles since the smog failure. I've been to Mercedes twice and they have not yet been able to diagnose it. They said that "the Xentry tester will not communicate with the CDI." They "used the handheld scanner to check for codes. No codes found, and one monitor needs to be passed."
So today I took it to the California smog referee (after waiting weeks for an appointment). It turns out that these Sprinters are showing up all over California, every day. It's a known problem (well known to the Bureau of Automotive Repair). They wouldn't give me waiver because they want me (and everyone else) to take their Sprinters back to Mercedes (or Dodge or Freightliner). They want Mercedes to issue a recall on these Sprinters and repair them all. They expect to see thousands of these over the next few months, due to a recent rule change that requires that "all monitors be set" on the 2005 & 2006 models.
I need my Sprinter for work everyday. Nevertheless, I plan to take it back to the dealer and just leave it there for a few days so they can figure out what's going on. I think they (Mercedes) know what's going on, but they are tight lipped about it. I think they have seen a lot of these, but they want to look over each one in order to gather statistics on a large enough sample to engineer a common solution. Although I'm only speculating on why they might need to keep mine for several days.
The only way I can get a 2 year waiver is to spend $650 on unsuccessful smog repairs. It's a real bummer for me.
I thought I should share my experience here because I learned so much at the referee station today. I suspected much of this, but the referee actually put in writing that:
"EGR monitor not ready appears to be a problem with these vehicles (referees have been getting this year, make vehicle on a daily basis with the EGR monitor issue) that the manufacturer should take care [this] of under warranty."
I hope this is helpful, albeit depressing. I've already been driving unregistered since June.
Does anyone know any tricks to setting the EGR readiness? I've tried many without success. My excellent Sprinter mechanic (I discovered Anatole in Sun Valley on this forum) also has about 9 Sprinters waiting for a solution.

EvHarris7
08-08-2015, 12:31 AM
I wanted to update on my 2006 Sprinter. I just got back from the dealer, they tried driving and manually forcing the cycle to complete, both attempts failed. No pending codes, and they asked Chrysler for a recommendation. I have a written response from someone at Chrysler stating that they are currently having the same problem with every diesel in CA. They stated that the diesel monitors don't line up with gasoline monitors due to the difference in construction and monitoring capabilities and that the only solution is to file for an exemption. The said they were forwarding the ticket to the Sprinter Fleet Tech Advisor who is compiling info on these vehicles related to CA smog testing. The told me to take it to a SMOG referee for an exemption, and that they had no further info or solutions.

I have an appointment next Wednesday with a smog referee. I am not real confident that it will do anything since I have read multiple accounts on here of the referee not being able to help. I am hoping that since I have a response from someone at Chrysler in writing that it might help my case.

I will post my results on Wednesday.

Did anyone else have anything in writing from the manufacturer when they went?

I would appreciate any other info on peoples experiences.

Fixitman
08-08-2015, 01:18 AM
The referee (told me he) can only give you a waiver if you show $650 in (certified) smog repair receipts. I would gladly have spent that money before going to the referee, if I had known. Now I need to spend the money and wait 6 weeks for another referee appointment.

EvHarris7
08-08-2015, 02:16 AM
I wish that was a option for me. Our sprinter was purchased out of state and this is the first time registering it in California. The $650 repair option only works for bi-annual renewal and does not work for change of ownership or registering an out of state vehicle. Plus you are only allowed to do it once per vehicle, so you would never be able to do it again in the future.

At this time, I have no plates, and no title since California won't complete the registration until it is smogged. They started the process of canceling the AZ title I believe so I can't even register it back in AZ.

My only option is to see if the referee can do anything for me or if I can register it as non-operational and get the title and plate.

Fixitman
08-08-2015, 02:39 AM
Good luck!

EvHarris7
08-14-2015, 12:53 AM
PASSED SMOG!

I wanted to update again. I got the same story from the SMOG referee that everyone else did. Hearing that I didn't have much hope with the referee, I decided to go a new route. I called Keith from GDE on Monday morning, talked with him for a few minutes and ordered the ECO Tune. It arrived Wednesday, I copied the file an sent it in. I got it back a few hours later and installed it. The whole process took about 30 minutes from opening the box to being installed(minus the time waiting for the file). I drove it about 200 miles today just to make sure the drive cycle would complete. Went to the SMOG station and it showed EGR monitor was ready. 20 minutes later I had passed SMOG paperwork in hand.

GDE was able to solve a problem that California and Mercedes weren't willing to take responsibility for. I cannot guarantee it will work for everyone, but it solved my problem.

Plus I got an estimated 1.8mpg improvement on that 200 miles. I went from 21 mpg average from mixed driving to 22.8mpg. I will post my long term mileage after a few tanks.

I cannot say enough good about the service from Keith at GDE.

The torque increase is also great, drive ability is much better with the linear torque curve.

Fixitman
08-14-2015, 02:35 AM
This is very good news. I guess my next step is to try GDE as well. Thanks for the update.

nutterbutter
08-14-2015, 09:14 AM
I passed smog at the local test station in Alameda, CA (AAC Test Only Smog Station) in early July, soon after I purchased the 2004 T1n. (After some confusion at the DMV, I was told I had to smog the vehicle to transfer title, as registration was due within 30 days)

This was before I did any real maintenance or modifications to the vehicle. Passed with no problems, and even showed up having driven less than 5 blocks in the morning after a cold start.

So it is possible to pass a smog test in California with a stock 2004 Sprinter with clogged air filter. Or maybe you all just need to drive here to get it done? I have maintenance records that sometime last year or so the turbo hoses were changed as well as the EGR valve cleaned due to LHM from turbo boost issue. Was told it was due to a loose hose/clamp. Not sure if that matters, but it is a data point.

I'm planning on doing the GDE tune soon, and will update my profile after it is done, but the passed smog was totally stock in July 2015 in California.

flman
08-14-2015, 10:02 AM
Looks like you Cali T1N owners might just need to get a Green Diesel tune in order to get your T1Ns to pass? Kind of stupid for a state to ask an older vehicle to comply with a newer law, but I guess that is what the morons from CARB want?

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=392694&postcount=712

Fixitman
08-14-2015, 05:55 PM
I passed smog at the local test station in Alameda, CA (AAC Test Only Smog Station) in early July, soon after I purchased the 2004 T1n. (After some confusion at the DMV, I was told I had to smog the vehicle to transfer title, as registration was due within 30 days)

This was before I did any real maintenance or modifications to the vehicle. Passed with no problems, and even showed up having driven less than 5 blocks in the morning after a cold start.

So it is possible to pass a smog test in California with a stock 2004 Sprinter with clogged air filter. Or maybe you all just need to drive here to get it done? I have maintenance records that sometime last year or so the turbo hoses were changed as well as the EGR valve cleaned due to LHM from turbo boost issue. Was told it was due to a loose hose/clamp. Not sure if that matters, but it is a data point.

I'm planning on doing the GDE tune soon, and will update my profile after it is done, but the passed smog was totally stock in July 2015 in California.

It's easy to pass CA smog if all of your monitors are set. My EGR monitor used to set. It doesn't anymore and nobody can tell me why. My understanding is that, if the EGR monitor is set, you'll get an engine light and go into 'limp' mode if you break a turbo hose or your EGR valve fails (among other things). I don't get the engine light or the 'limp' mode for those issues anymore, because my 'EGR monitor' won't set. The dealerships/manufacturer can't tell me why, and (according the CA smog referee) there are hundreds or thousands of 2005/2006 Sprinters with this problem.
The new CA rules state that ALL monitors must be set on 2005/2006 Sprinters even though newer Sprinters are allowed 2 incomplete monitors. I don't know what the story is on 2004 models.
I ordered the GDE today. I hope to report good news in a few days.

psychoboy
08-15-2015, 12:22 PM
Looks like you Cali T1N owners might just need to get a Green Diesel tune in order to get your T1Ns to pass? Kind of stupid for a state to ask an older vehicle to comply with a newer law, but I guess that is what the morons from CARB want?

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=392694&postcount=712

which is hilarious, since the GDE tune is basically illegal in cali specifically because it alters the EGR system. The GDE paperwork opens with such a bold statement that I was joking with my racing buddies about not being able to tow my racecar to thunderhill in the fall with my sprinter.


So, cali people, don't hang the GDE sticker on your van before you go pass your smog test.

EvHarris7
08-15-2015, 03:06 PM
which is hilarious, since the GDE tune is basically illegal in cali specifically because it alters the EGR system. The GDE paperwork opens with such a bold statement that I was joking with my racing buddies about not being able to tow my racecar to thunderhill in the fall with my sprinter.


So, cali people, don't hang the GDE sticker on your van before you go pass your smog test.


It's the lesser of two evils since it is also illegal to drive with expired tags. I explored all OEM routes first including two dealerships who told me there was nothing mechanically wrong with my vehicle and that it was running perfect, the drive cycle was just not designed to close since it wasn't a law when the vehicle was built. And CA SMOG wants Mercedes to fix something that Mercedes says is not a problem. I chose not to drive without plates and wait for the class action lawsuit (which I am sure will happen since it's California) and fix the problem. As far as I am concerned, my sprinter now puts out lower emissions numbers overall and gets better gas mileage. I don't see how that is bad for the environment.

And I agree, please be smart enough to not put the sticker on the outside of your sprinter.

sailquik
08-15-2015, 03:53 PM
EvHarris7,
You wrote:
"As far as I am concerned, my sprinter now puts out lower emissions numbers overall and gets better gas mileage."
Are you sure about this?
GDE has posted that while the tune does reduce some emissions categories, it increases others.
Roger

EvHarris7
08-15-2015, 04:31 PM
EvHarris7,
You wrote:
"As far as I am concerned, my sprinter now puts out lower emissions numbers overall and gets better gas mileage."
Are you sure about this?
GDE has posted that while the tune does reduce some emissions categories, it increases others.
Roger

75% of them being lower isn't bad, even if one is slightly up. It was low enough to pass emissions. Without GDE, I owned a 5,000lb paper weight. I couldn't drive it or sell it, and CA wouldn't even give me a title without SMOG, so I didn't have a whole lot of options, I am happy with my choice.

I know how you feel about tuning, but it works for me, I have owned many other turbo charged gasoline cars, all of which had a aftermarket ecu tune, and I have never had a problem.

flman
08-15-2015, 05:32 PM
Ev, you made a great choice, you can continue to drive your reliable T1N into the ground. plus you get the bouns of longer engine life, extra torque. Really their is NO better option.

OTOH this new dumb law could put a lot of salt free T1Ns on the market for those who do not know about the tune?

nutterbutter
08-15-2015, 05:51 PM
Here's a copy of my pass.

Fixitman: You've said that if the EGR parameter is open, that prevents LHM due to turbo hose failure.

Mine is closed.

Is it possible to make the EGR parameter open to defeat a LHM turbo hose failure while on a long trip? This way I could get home and fix/diagnose at my leisure. My biggest fear with the sprinter is being stuck a thousand miles from home and needing to be at work in 2 days.

Fixitman
08-15-2015, 06:43 PM
NutterButter,
I drove from Las Vegas to Norco, CA in 'limp mode' once because of an EGR valve failure. I could get to Norco faster than Dodge or Mercedes could get an EGR valve to Las Vegas. Good times :/
I've also gone into 'limp mode' when my turbo resonator developed a leak, and also when my lower turbo hose split.
Nowadays (now that my EGR monitor won't set), I've blown my lower turbo hose 2 or 3 times and have not seen an 'engine light' or 'limp mode'. I keep spare upper and lower turbo hoses in my van, so I can literally pull over and repair the trouble in minutes.
I haven't seen an 'engine light' or 'limp mode' for these things in years. Though I do get an immediate loss of power from the loss of turbo pressure. Just no 'limp mode' or 'engine light'.
I am convinced that the system is unaware of the failure because the EGR monitor is not monitoring these conditions. If the EGR monitor was set, then the monitor would sense the pressure discrepancies (like it used to) and dive into 'limp mode' (like it used to). These are my actual observations of my own Sprinter over the years. I may find out that 'turbo pressure' and 'EGR monitor' are unrelated systems, but no one has corrected me yet, and my anecdotal experience seems to be consistent. I'm no expert. Also, my engine light does work correctly for other things.
As to your question "Is it possible to make the EGR parameter open to defeat a LHM turbo hose failure while on a long trip? This way I could get home and fix/diagnose at my leisure. My biggest fear with the sprinter is being stuck a thousand miles from home and needing to be at work in 2 days." My answer: I really don't know. Wouldn't it be great if you could disable 'limp mode' long enough to get home?

In the past, the dealerships have told me that 'limp mode' is designed to protect the engine from catastrophic damage. The dealerships have also told me many things that were completely untrue (like, "that oil leak is not repairable and is normal leakage for its age" the fact was that the oil leak was a direct result of that very dealership failing to install the oil pan correctly during a prior service. Anatole in Sun Valley fixed it right the first time and it has never leaked a drop since). So I am justifiably skeptical about some dealership advice.

I'm sorry I'm not able to answer your question NutterButter, but maybe my experience can give you some leads.

Fixitman
08-18-2015, 03:49 AM
Good news! I got my GDE tune today. Installed it in under 2 hours (including the time I spent waiting for the tune to arrive by email). The actual work time was maybe 30 minutes installing it on the computer, reading the Sprinter files, loading the new files. It was pretty easy.
The good news is that the all the monitors are set. My EGR monitor hasn't set in years. It's set now and I didn't drive anywhere. No driving needed.

EvHarris7
08-19-2015, 04:50 AM
2 for 2, I give my praise to GDE, glad to hear another positive story from fixitman

Fixitman
08-19-2015, 04:54 AM
I passed smog today! I posted detailed impressions of my first day driving with GDE here:
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=393932#post393932

Aqua Puttana
08-19-2015, 05:58 PM
...
The new CA rules state that ALL monitors must be set on 2005/2006 Sprinters even though newer Sprinters are allowed 2 incomplete monitors. I don't know what the story is on 2004 models.
If my memory is correct there was a change in ECM aka ECU architecture sometime in 2004. I believe that fact came to light here as was related to some of the preparation for a tune, or perhaps Doktor A mentioned it? Anyway, that may affect the 2004 as to passing smog vs the problems with the 2005/2006. :idunno:

...I ordered the GDE today. I hope to report good news in a few days.
Glad to hear that the GDE tune resolved your problems. There's been some anti-tune warnings early on, but so far the benefits of a tune seem to far outweigh the possible problems. Eg. - SKREEM problem resolution and now smog test passing.

Please let's not start on another tune vs the environment discussion though. There's plenty of other places for that discussion already.

:cheers: vic

seans
09-21-2015, 08:44 PM
Fixitman & EvHarris7's experiences suggest that once open, the EGR monitor can't be closed. But RB7's 2006 passed recently.

Are we looking at an ECU bug? Or a tricky problem that isn't enough to degrade performance or trip the CEL and consequently is very difficult to identify?

I guess I have two questions for the Sprinter mechanics out there:


Have you ever found a 2005/2006 T1N whose EGR monitor you could NOT close?
What issues (especially the non-obvious ones) can keep the EGR monitor open?

psychoboy
09-21-2015, 11:20 PM
Fixitman & EvHarris7's experiences suggest that once open, the EGR monitor can't be closed. But RB7's 2006 passed recently.

Are we looking at an ECU bug? Or a tricky problem that isn't enough to degrade performance or trip the CEL and consequently is very difficult to identify?

I guess I have two questions for the Sprinter mechanics out there:


Have you ever found a 2005/2006 T1N whose EGR monitor you could NOT close?
What issues (especially the non-obvious ones) can keep the EGR monitor open?


I can't find it now, but I think I recall reading that some locations in California did not test the same way as other areas.

some areas (likely urban) look for all monitors to be closed (which fails some sprinters that are not designed to close), while other areas (likely less urban) just check for codes (which passes those same sprinters, because they are not throwing lights).

It could be that RB7 was tested by a station (or in an area) that did not look for the always open monitor.

neelymoto
09-22-2015, 03:56 AM
Add me to the list of TIN Sprinter owners who are caught in California Smog compliance limbo and unable to pass smog test due to the EGR system check not finalizing. In my case I recently reset all fault codes (stupid as I now know) with my ultra gauge after a glow plug fault and subsequent repair, setting the system checks in motion.
At 196K the van runs fine, has no fault codes currently showing on the ultra gauge and I was totally surprised to find this issue come up during the smog check today. I am strongly considering the Green Diesel ECU tune as the best option - $695 that I had other plans for yesterday! I hope the engine performance and fuel economy truly improves as others have indicated.

flman
09-22-2015, 11:17 AM
Add me to the list of TIN Sprinter owners who are caught in California Smog compliance limbo and unable to pass smog test due to the EGR system check not finalizing. In my case I recently reset all fault codes (stupid as I now know) with my ultra gauge after a glow plug fault and subsequent repair, setting the system checks in motion.
At 196K the van runs fine, has no fault codes currently showing on the ultra gauge and I was totally surprised to find this issue come up during the smog check today. I am strongly considering the Green Diesel ECU tune as the best option - $695 that I had other plans for yesterday! I hope the engine performance and fuel economy truly improves as others have indicated.

That tune will put $695 in your pocket several times with no more emissions repairs, cleaner oil for longer engine life, and the bonus of higher MPG. Also you will love the way your new engine takes off like a sports car when you step on the pedal.

neelymoto
09-22-2015, 04:26 PM
That tune will put $695 in your pocket several times with no more emissions repairs, cleaner oil for longer engine life, and the bonus of higher MPG. Also you will love the way your new engine takes off like a sports car when you step on the pedal.

I agree! Just pulled the trigger and should have the GDE tune here in 2 days. The benefits you speak of are what drove my decision after speaking with the mercedes dealer and California Bureau of Auto Repair any status updates on the problem. BAR rep made it sound surprisingly easy to get a waiver or pass if I spent some time pursuing the matter, but others here have had different real life experiences. Since I like my little sprinter RV so much and am suspicious of the BAR process, I am all in on the GDE tune.

psychoboy
09-22-2015, 05:04 PM
I agree! Just pulled the trigger and should have the GDE tune here in 2 days. The benefits you speak of are what drove my decision after speaking with the mercedes dealer and California Bureau of Auto Repair any status updates on the problem. BAR rep made it sound surprisingly easy to get a waiver or pass if I spent some time pursuing the matter, but others here have had different real life experiences. Since I like my little sprinter RV so much and am suspicious of the BAR process, I am all in on the GDE tune.

others have reported that the waiver /is/ easy to get.

get a $650 receipt that says you tried to fix a problem you don't really have with a part that will not fix it, and you can get a short-term waiver (two years, max).

it's not really a solution...it's a delay of the problem.

neelymoto
09-26-2015, 03:21 PM
Got the GDE tune by priority mail 2 days ago, installed it, and passed California smog yesterday with my 05 sprinter. GDE was quick with shipping the tool and responding with the tuned software correspondence. The only complication with installation was that I had to borrow a windows program/laptop to load the software.

I thought I may have stuck my foot in my mouth when I started explaining my findings on the 05/06 sprinter EGR open loop problems, along with the GDE tune solution to the SMOG tech at the retest. His response was that aftermarket modifications were not legal and he wanted to see all the paperwork. I dummied up and passed the test.

So far my impressions of the change in performance of the sprinter is based on the 30 mile drive to and from the smog test station. It appears to me that it runs smoother, quieter and with less diesel rattle.

smiller
09-26-2015, 04:00 PM
I thought I may have stuck my foot in my mouth when I started explaining my findings on the 05/06 sprinter EGR open loop problems, along with the GDE tune solution to the SMOG tech at the retest.
Pretty obviously not a good idea.

neelymoto
09-26-2015, 06:03 PM
Pretty obviously not a good idea.

Doh! ... Just a little too giddy about my new tune toy and thinking I was being a good sam in sharing my the solution, after the tech had previously told me to just drive it and it will reset.
Tech claims his brothers 05 sprinter recently reset and passed .. dunno (??) and didnt want to discuss it any further after he said ILLEGAL!

Aqua Puttana
09-26-2015, 07:48 PM
Doh! ... Just a little too giddy about my new tune toy and thinking I was being a good sam in sharing my the solution, after the tech had previously told me to just drive it and it will reset.
Tech claims his brothers 05 sprinter recently reset and passed .. dunno (??) and didnt want to discuss it any further after he said ILLEGAL!
A little bird was having so much fun he forgot to head south early enough before winter.

As he finally headed south he flew into an ice storm. His wings froze and he fell down into a cow pasture. While he was lying there near frozen and unable to move a cow came by and dropped a fresh pile right on top of him.

"This is just great", he thought. What a way to end it all. But soon the warmth of the cow poo warmed and revived him. He was so happy that he stuck his head out and began to tweet his joy.

A passing fox heard the chirping, dug the bird out of the sh*t and promptly ate him.

The moral of the story?
Those who put you in the sh*t are not necessarily your enemy.
Those who get you out of the sh*t are not necessarily your friends.
When you are warm and happy in a pile of sh*t, keep your mouth shut.

vic

sailquik
09-26-2015, 08:16 PM
One wonders if the EPA (or the CA ARB) will be able to subpoena the client lists when they figure out the legality/illegality
of these sorts of defeat devices.
Should be interesting.
Roger

neelymoto
09-27-2015, 03:46 AM
..figure out the legality/illegality
of these sorts of defeat devices.


Admittedly the smog check BS brought this device to my attention, but I dont see "defeat device" as an accurate description. I see the EGR system loop reset as a side benefit on a device that is primarily for improved performance. The horsepower gain and fuel economy reports are impressive.

Considering the Cal-ARB diesel smog checks include no actual tail pipe emissions testing and the system check is probably just pasted over from the gas engine checks that do include emissions testing, the diesel smog check system appears quite meaningless. So what is being defeated?

The majority here seem to say the 05/06 sprinters fail because the ECU wont complete the EGR system check loop, not because due to a defective EGR. Mercedes has no fix. The dealer service department told me last week they are aware of the problem and are not taking any 05/06 sprinters in on trade because of it.

Gabriel
09-29-2015, 02:01 AM
I opted for the GDE tune and was able to clear my EGR monitor and allow me pass smog testing. It took two different GDE tunes to get me to clear, but whatever. It worked.

The shipping was fast, service was prompt and whole process was pretty easy. An overlooked feature is that the GDE tuner also doubles as a DBR3 DTC scanner. It helped me diagnose a bunch of other problems better than the toy ODBII scanner that connects to my iPhone. Overall, the engine is peppier and smoother after the tune. It is noticeable more drivable. There engine is a little tougher at idle, but it's not bothersome.

I live in an area where air quality and NOx emissions do matter and I have many childhood memories of thick smog as far as the eye could see (that wasn't very far). Therefore, after my paperwork is filed I'm going back to the stock tune and wait for my next biannual inspection notice.

For my next diesel, I'm buying a Volkswagen. There's a company that stands by the consumer and makes SURE you pass emissions testing:-) My phone calls with Dodge, Chrysler and Mercedes were totally useless.

spomo444
11-02-2015, 04:34 AM
Reviving this thread as I am suffering the same "EGR not ready" issue in my 2004. After having failed CA smog because of the EGR monitor not being ready, I was given the advice to "just drive it some more and it will reset" - so I drove another 500 miles and still EGR would not complete. After researching the forum, I just bought a GDE tune and just installed it. My EGR is now complete! But my reader is showing the Misfire monitor now is incomplete (I drove approx 40 miles city/hwy after I installed the GDE tune). Does anyone know if the Misfire monitor will cause me to fail CA smog? Or do I need to put some more miles on it to get through the drive cycle? Thoughts?

Aqua Puttana
11-02-2015, 12:00 PM
... Does anyone know if the Misfire monitor will cause me to fail CA smog? Or do I need to put some more miles on it to get through the drive cycle? Thoughts?
I can't answer your questions. From the post immediately previous to yours.

I opted for the GDE tune and was able to clear my EGR monitor and allow me pass smog testing. It took two different GDE tunes to get me to clear, but whatever. It worked.
No details as to why. I would call Keith at GDE.

vic

spomo444
11-03-2015, 04:39 AM
I drove another 40 miles after work today and the Misfire monitor completed - so now with the GDE tune all of my monitors are clear, including the EGR monitor which had been keeping me from getting CA smogged.

I am also super impressed with the performance increase of the GDE tune - my 2004 feels like it just gained 30% more power! So I got the tune to pass the smog test, but now that I have it, the performance gains are awesome! Time will tell on the mpg...

spomo444
11-10-2015, 05:45 AM
Final update, after installing the GDE tune and driving 50 or so miles to clear all of the monitors, I passed CA smog no problem. This was after repeatedly failing due to EGR monitor not being ready, and no one being able to get it to reset or to be complete. Thanks GDE!!! Van is much more fun to drive now as well.

Luce
12-03-2015, 06:29 PM
SO, has anyone found a solution to the egr monitor not setting other than spending the money for an gde tune, which sounds great but is still money i would have to barrow?

thanks
LP

Aqua Puttana
12-04-2015, 01:16 PM
SO, has anyone found a solution to the egr monitor not setting other than spending the money for an gde tune, which sounds great but is still money i would have to borrow?

thanks
LP
My opinion.

If you need to pass CARB tests the GDE solution seems to be the only one that is 100%. You may spend the same money, or more just to discover that it still won't pass.

I have no idea what the real problem is. It does seem that if the Sprinter won't close nobody has a sure fire OEM parts replacement solution.

It also seems to be the luck of the draw as to whether you have the problem or not. Some (many?) pass without issues. I have no data.

vic

RICKOLA
02-23-2016, 01:15 PM
Having a 2008 sprinter that needed a #5 glow plug. They replaced it and cleared the code. Told me to drive 40-60 miles to reset the computer. Next day I went to the smog station and they did a free pretest based on my discussion. Said the catalyst was open and to drive it for a week and to look up the drive cycle parameters.

A week of late night and early morning drives to miss traffic on the Los Angeles Freeways and roads was a waste of time. My scanner still showed the Cat was open. . 200 miles later and reading countless post on this forum and a Mercedes forum the drive cycle has no rhyme or reason.

So I looked at the state of California BAR requirements, implemented on 5/1/2015 on both BAR-97 & BAR-OIS found a section on diesels stating that:

Diesel powered 1998-2006 Zero monitors are allowed to be incomplete.

2007 and newer, only the exhaust after treatment system is aloowed to be incomplete. This included all monitors related to tailpipe: PM filter, NOx/SCR treatment, catalyst.

Copied and pasted this onto my phone to show the smog station tech. Said I was wrong and did a pre test still showing the cat was open. Asked him to run a real test and let the computer determine if I would pass based on my research.

The Tech agreed and said he would not charge me if it failed. To his amazement, it passed and all my week of research and driving was not wasted. He learned that sometimes the customer is right:thumbup:

Rick

lindenengineering
02-24-2016, 02:39 AM
On any scanner there is always a caution, Do you want to clear?

This in many cases is imprudent because it opens ALL the I/M240 monitors which then have to be closed by going through drive cycles..As you have discovered !

Better to cycle the key on and off three times then drive the rig with the MIL lamp on (CEL) .
After several cycles the light will go out by itself under command of the I/M 240 monitor controlling the glow plug you have repaired.

Of course if you haven't repared it right the light won't go out!

This then allows us professionals to quickly repair a system and do a quicky repair avoiding lengthy road tests and cunsuming valuable time. Upon scanning you might see a stored code but not an active one which is acceptable for E tests! Simply because the monitors are closed.
So try not to be too trigger happy with the "clear command"!
Dennis

RICKOLA
02-24-2016, 05:05 AM
I told the mechanic what happened and that the catalyst still hasn't reset upon his clearing of the codes.

Just curious, is there a time frame or driving pattern to finally clear the open catalyst? It would be nice to clear before the next test in 2 years.

Will changing the battery also open all the monitors? Mine is original and it will eventually need to be replaced. Do it live with a jumper so it doesn't trip the monitors?

Rick.

LuckyEarthling
04-19-2016, 05:41 PM
Having a 2008 sprinter that needed a #5 glow plug. They replaced it and cleared the code. Told me to drive 40-60 miles to reset the computer. Next day I went to the smog station and they did a free pretest based on my discussion. Said the catalyst was open and to drive it for a week and to look up the drive cycle parameters.

A week of late night and early morning drives to miss traffic on the Los Angeles Freeways and roads was a waste of time. My scanner still showed the Cat was open. . 200 miles later and reading countless post on this forum and a Mercedes forum the drive cycle has no rhyme or reason.

So I looked at the state of California BAR requirements, implemented on 5/1/2015 on both BAR-97 & BAR-OIS found a section on diesels stating that:

Diesel powered 1998-2006 Zero monitors are allowed to be incomplete.

2007 and newer, only the exhaust after treatment system is aloowed to be incomplete. This included all monitors related to tailpipe: PM filter, NOx/SCR treatment, catalyst.

Copied and pasted this onto my phone to show the smog station tech. Said I was wrong and did a pre test still showing the cat was open. Asked him to run a real test and let the computer determine if I would pass based on my research.

The Tech agreed and said he would not charge me if it failed. To his amazement, it passed and all my week of research and driving was not wasted. He learned that sometimes the customer is right:thumbup:

Rick


My mechanic stated I needed to drive more because his scanner was showing my 07 Sprinter "CAT NOT READY." Does this mean I should ask him to just run a real test regardless of my cat not being ready? Everything else is ready. Thanks!

lindenengineering
04-19-2016, 07:11 PM
You can check-=-But normally you are allowed ONE monitor open.
Dennis
Mechanic

calbiker
04-19-2016, 07:39 PM
Are the monitors opened if any code is cleared? For example, will the monitors open when I clear a CAN communication error or clear a climate control (ATC) error?

On any scanner there is always a caution, Do you want to clear?

This in many cases is imprudent because it opens ALL the I/M240 monitors which then have to be closed by going through drive cycles..As you have discovered !

Dennis

lindenengineering
04-20-2016, 04:52 AM
Are the monitors opened if any code is cleared? For example, will the monitors open when I clear a CAN communication error or clear a climate control (ATC) error?

In short depends upon the scanner you are using!
Some will only do a FULL clear, others the higher more Pro end will have selective features.
Really depends again upon what you have.
Dennis

LuckyEarthling
04-20-2016, 07:05 PM
Having a 2008 sprinter that needed a #5 glow plug. They replaced it and cleared the code. Told me to drive 40-60 miles to reset the computer. Next day I went to the smog station and they did a free pretest based on my discussion. Said the catalyst was open and to drive it for a week and to look up the drive cycle parameters.

A week of late night and early morning drives to miss traffic on the Los Angeles Freeways and roads was a waste of time. My scanner still showed the Cat was open. . 200 miles later and reading countless post on this forum and a Mercedes forum the drive cycle has no rhyme or reason.

So I looked at the state of California BAR requirements, implemented on 5/1/2015 on both BAR-97 & BAR-OIS found a section on diesels stating that:

Diesel powered 1998-2006 Zero monitors are allowed to be incomplete.

2007 and newer, only the exhaust after treatment system is aloowed to be incomplete. This included all monitors related to tailpipe: PM filter, NOx/SCR treatment, catalyst.

Copied and pasted this onto my phone to show the smog station tech. Said I was wrong and did a pre test still showing the cat was open. Asked him to run a real test and let the computer determine if I would pass based on my research.

The Tech agreed and said he would not charge me if it failed. To his amazement, it passed and all my week of research and driving was not wasted. He learned that sometimes the customer is right:thumbup:

Rick


Holy crap, it worked! Thank you!!
Of course my mechanic had no idea. He also didn't know the glow plugs should be hot when removed, so he broke one of my glow plugs. I had to have the vehicle towed to another shop to remove it and it cost me $2000. At least he gave me a free smog retest -_-
Thanks, RICKOLA!:thumbup:

spomo444
05-08-2016, 11:28 PM
Final update, after installing the GDE tune and driving 50 or so miles to clear all of the monitors, I passed CA smog no problem. This was after repeatedly failing due to EGR monitor not being ready, and no one being able to get it to reset or to be complete. Thanks GDE!!! Van is much more fun to drive now as well.

FWIW - after I installed the GDE tune and passes smog, I realized that my operating temp was not getting very high. My mechanic replaced the thermostat and all was fine, but he mentioned that if the thermostat was stuck open and the van never got up to proper operating temp, that could of been the issue with my EGR not being ready. Now, I have no way of knowing if this was the original cause of my EGR smog issue, but just putting it out there to anyone else who is having the issue of not clearing your EGR code for smog - be sure and check to see if you are getting up to operating temp. I am still pleased with the performance gains of the GDE tune.

legrant
07-17-2016, 08:12 AM
What is the drive cycle for a 2014 passenger van sprinter? Everything's complete but the converter.