To all the NO Start Sprinters and the Woe

Turbo John

New member
Having had my Sprinter since new 2004 it has performed flawless. It was only until last year it was flawless. After that it has been a nightmare with starting issues.

The following has been done to correct it.

1. Sent ECU to SOS diagnostics
2. Delete the immobilizer
3. Replace the Key Switch'
4.Check all the wiring /fuses etc
5.Check the Trans line for wicking
6. Added ground strap purchased at Auto Zone

All worked sometimes but not all the time...

I am happy to report the last fix works!!:drool:

Here is the report:

Trying to start my van today many times...flicker lights etc....during this time I took off the negative cable and noticed it was hot....the little cheap Mercedes piece that goes from batt to firewall.

That was clue to me that something was going on with the ground. It only showed up as I had my wife repeatledly trying cranking.

I thought this should not be hot.........I already had installed a cheap ground cable from autozone and emphasis is on cheap.......I thought this could not be the ground or could it:bash:

I went and got some #1 welding /cable marine copper cable and made a new short negative to replace the firewall ground strap.........I then used the same # 1 cable and made a new ground strap and put it to the firewall and went down to the factory location on the engine where the braided line from the factory was attached. Not to the frame where it is routed.

Took off the cheap autozone ground strap and cleaned the frame off and all places where the ground would touch with a high speed wire brush.

All the ground straps now are oversize and after about 1 hour or so I am ready to see what happens...

BINGO!! Its alive again ! No more starting issues..........:cheers:

As I see this from the start it might have been poor grounds....many people said this but I grounded it half arse. This time I did it like the military would spend money and no shortcuts...especially getting rid of the little 8 guage negative ground cable that goes to the dash! Go big or Go home I said!:rad:

So for you guys having starting issues........I would suggest re-doing the negative cable and make it big and run another big one from the firewall ( need a longer bolt) to the engine and wire brush everything especially the frame.......then spray the red corrosion protector on everything.

So even though I thought I had a good ground I did not....This has been a lesson for me and I hope this saves some of you guys some grief!:2cents:

So if you have a starting issue go big negative cable or stay home...cause your sprinter wont start!:popcorn:
 

Turbo John

New member
A bad ground can create a high enough resistance to limit the current to an amount that's not sufficient to make the starter turn, but still sufficient to warm up the ground cable. My radio and headlights even worked I wanted to add.
So the current was not enough to even engage the starter hence the flickering lights and every once in a while the starter would click.........
 

NelsonSprinter

Former Nelson BC Sprinter
I have yet to find the engine's ground cable, so if you could describe that area or photo that replacement it would be appreciated
 

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
All the Boi Racers use multiple ground straps from chassis to block. It's not a bad idea to put on an extra one.

Also, don't you hate how a problem that you assume to be a major repair co$t turns out to be $20? Of course, AFTER you tried the high dollar repairs...
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
I have yet to find the engine's ground cable, so if you could describe that area or photo that replacement it would be appreciated
I think i have a photo of the OEM (somewhere), but for the moment:
It's a wire that bridges between the engine and the frame, very close to the engine mount that's nearest to the starter motor. (in a T1N)

Found it (taken from front of Sprinter, looking down just beside the fuel filter):

GroundStrap2005.jpg

--dick (looking for photo)
 
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Turbo John

New member
I have yet to find the engine's ground cable, so if you could describe that area or photo that replacement it would be appreciated
Front right side of the engine next to the forward motor mount and it runs straight over to the frame........its braided and exposed...not really that hard to see because its almost straight down as you look down on the drivers side...the braided line is about 12 inches long.....so on the frame running to the area of the motor mount

I can shoot some pictures tommorow but decided to drink instead !:smirk:
 

Turbo John

New member
All the Boi Racers use multiple ground straps from chassis to block. It's not a bad idea to put on an extra one.

Also, don't you hate how a problem that you assume to be a major repair co$t turns out to be $20? Of course, AFTER you tried the high dollar repairs...
You are so right.......these things can be nightmares but like one guy I heard talk on you tube........keep it simple and you will find it.........not even sure now the ecu was bad...dont really think it was....:thinking:
 

Turbo John

New member
I think i have a photo of the OEM (somewhere), but for the moment:
It's a wire that bridges between the engine and the frame, very close to the engine mount that's nearest to the starter motor. (in a T1N)

Found it (taken from front of Sprinter, looking down just beside the fuel filter):

View attachment 61062

--dick (looking for photo)
That is the one!!!!:bounce:........Thanks for the picture..:cheers:

Before I just ran a cheap ground strap over to the block....That was not doing anything from what I just saw...........replacing the little pimpy sawed off runt on the firewall to battery was the start.......so I took off the Autozone piece of Chinese aluminum stranded junk going to the block and installed a He Man cable and ran it to the factory connected spot....Not sure which one did it but I dont care......I know I have a good ground now.

On top of the frame I wire brushed the you know what out of it and I think giving attention to all three areas did it.........

I actually dont think I will ever have another starting issue again unless something else crops up:idunno:

But for those who have these issues this is one thing to do for sure and DO IT RIGHT the first time...and for those who have not done this...I think it will be good insurance for you and call it preventative maintenance if you will like an oil change.:clapping:
 

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
You are so right.......these things can be nightmares but like one guy I heard talk on you tube........keep it simple and you will find it.........not even sure now the ecu was bad...dont really think it was....:thinking:
I've read SO MANY threads here where someone is desperate, and believes they need to replace their turbo because they are in LHM and have no boost pressure, and it always turns out to be a loose hose or one of the old resonators. Several actually replaced the turbo, EGR, and any other loosely related high dollar part before checking the simplest and easiest causes. I wonder how many dealership shops talked people into buying a bunch of unneeded parts knowing full well it was a blown resonator?:shifty:
 

Turbo John

New member
I've read SO MANY threads here where someone is desperate, and believes they need to replace their turbo because they are in LHM and have no boost pressure, and it always turns out to be a loose hose or one of the old resonators. Several actually replaced the turbo, EGR, and any other loosely related high dollar part before checking the simplest and easiest causes. I wonder how many dealership shops talked people into buying a bunch of unneeded parts knowing full well it was a blown resonator?:shifty:
I would never want to accuse anybody about anything without really knowing.........but we both know people including trained professionals will throw parts at a problem...........two reasons:

Reasons::2cents:

1. Its Your money so it does not matter to them
2. They don't really know whats wrong.
 

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
I would never want to accuse anybody about anything without really knowing.........but we both know people including trained professionals will throw parts at a problem...........two reasons:

Reasons::2cents:

1. Its Your money so it does not matter to them
2. They don't really know whats wrong.
I've always felt that if they just throw parts at it, they should put your old part back if it doesn't fix the problem, and not charge you for a new part you don't need. I guess only an independent shop would have a rack full of "known good" parts they can try, it's probably not in the business plan of a dealer shop.
 

Turbo John

New member
I've always felt that if they just throw parts at it, they should put your old part back if it doesn't fix the problem, and not charge you for a new part you don't need. I guess only an independent shop would have a rack full of "known good" parts they can try, it's probably not in the business plan of a dealer shop.
Your right about that...........good point.

Had an alternator replaced on wife's Lexus...went into the shop and saw the power steering valve was dripping on the alternator........this is what caused the problem...I said what about that as I pointed to the drip......are you going to suggest that be replaced so I dont lose another alternator..... his answer : "I guess if you think so"

These shops are having a hard time finding good tech guys these days..
 

seaspus

05 2500 140 HiPas w/ delightedly deleted RearAC
TJ, how did you source your cable? On line? URL? Or a local welding supplier?

On dealerslip topic, during an oil change of my Tacoma at the dealerslip I was given an estimate to replace the cable from the battery to the firewall--I had hard to start issues up to that point. I looked at the bill, don't remember what the amount was but definitely expensive, :frown: brought the truck home, examined the cable visually and it looked sound, checked the battery voltage and bingo! :bounce: I replaced the going-bad battery and has had no issues for two years now. :thumbup:

I imagine if it were up to that dealerslip they probably would've replaced :drool: all "bad" cables to the battery--each with a separate bill and charge--before replacing the real problem, the battery.

Needless to say I have not been back to that stealership since. :tongue:
 

Turbo John

New member
TJ, how did you source your cable? On line? URL? Or a local welding supplier?

On dealerslip topic, during an oil change of my Tacoma at the dealerslip I was given an estimate to replace the cable from the battery to the firewall--I had hard to start issues up to that point. I looked at the bill, don't remember what the amount was but definitely expensive, :frown: brought the truck home, examined the cable visually and it looked sound, checked the battery voltage and bingo! :bounce: I replaced the going-bad battery and has had no issues for two years now. :thumbup:

I imagine if it were up to that dealerslip they probably would've replaced :drool: all "bad" cables to the battery--each with a separate bill and charge--before replacing the real problem, the battery.

Needless to say I have not been back to that stealership since. :tongue:
I just restored a boat so I had lots of # 1 Marine Cable both red and black on the shelf..... (you could probably use # 2 but I had this #1 supply) went to the local battery/alternator/starter rebuilder and he had all the correct ends. Purchased the ends and stripped them and soldered them.....put some shrink on the ends for a nice look and I was good to go.........Made the first cable about 2.5 feet long and did the small cable 6 inchs long all with copper ends of the correct dimension. I used a step drill to get them right on and they all look factory.
The sprinter starts faster now than it ever did........I think Mercedes missed the boat with the little twinky ground cable. I was really disappointed in that small gauge of a wire that they selected. Maybe their engineers know more than I do but they way I finished it should have been done from the factory IMHO
Anybody who owns a Sprinter should just do this...30 bucks in material and 1.5 hours in Labor will save you lots of grief over time! Mad at myself....for not doing a better job the first time..:bash:
 

shortshort

Dis member
I've always felt that if they just throw parts at it, they should put your old part back if it doesn't fix the problem, and not charge you for a new part you don't need. I guess only an independent shop would have a rack full of "known good" parts they can try, it's probably not in the business plan of a dealer shop.
I once loaned a bike to my tuner as a parts mule for troubleshooting another of the same model. Turned out to be 4 bad spark plugs. Go figure.
 

baja

2004 2500 Leisure 210B
I've always felt that if they just throw parts at it, they should put your old part back if it doesn't fix the problem, and not charge you for a new part you don't need. I guess only an independent shop would have a rack full of "known good" parts they can try, it's probably not in the business plan of a dealer shop.
Dealerships usually pay mechanics a percentage of the cost of parts replaced,so the incentive is to "throw parts at and hope it fixes the problem. Baja
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Your right about that...........good point.

Had an alternator replaced on wife's Lexus...went into the shop and saw the power steering valve was dripping on the alternator........this is what caused the problem...I said what about that as I pointed to the drip......are you going to suggest that be replaced so I dont lose another alternator..... his answer : "I guess if you think so"

These shops are having a hard time finding good tech guys these days..




The chance of finding capable techs in the USA is getting to a crisis point.
Currently there is such a shortage, that the "big fish" are stealing the capable ones with very fat signing bonuses ($1000 to $3000) and very high hourly salaries like $60/hour to start plus benes after 90 days.
This is made worse in my area by local ganga weed legality which knocks out a lot of potential employees due to insurance mandatory drug tests if nothing else.

Then there is the lack of educated individuals that want to enter the business and those that are in it are poorly educated for starters. So that leaves older baby boomer applicants that have often left the trade for decades only to come back to it after a very long hiatus. Their skill levels don't match the needs technology found in today's motor vehicles.
The Y generation is a pool of resources but again lack of education and training is the biggest issue plus of course drugs as mentioned above.
The biggest problem area is young white Americans who are quite frankly candy arses who physically cry with tears and throw tools when there is a challenge! (millennials)

Hispanics are good workers and Mexicans are some of the best I have used in my experience even lacking knowledge they quickly grasp a task and learn by it.

Then we have yes the young white and Chicano millennials!
What we have been teaching in school makes me worry for the future of society.
Apart from having to employ people who are like young adolescence and the temper tantrums, any discipline cannot be taken whatsoever. This often causes the employee to simply walk out and never come back. Even after disgraceful levels of self indiscipline on the job.
In my day we were taught at school be target orientated with self critical goals.
In most cases this does not appear to be a strong trait with millenials.

On the job like your PAS pump this goes often goes unnoticed. There has to be constant supervision to effect a job to a satisfactory conclusion and quite frankly I often feel a total disconnect between my generation and this new one. Most seems to think they can learn the job in two years and almost all of them have another job which makes them tired and un focused on the job; that's if they can turn up on time!

An example:-
Change the t/Case on a Landrover!
In my day you removed it,installed it, ordered your parts and consumables, filled it with liquids tested handed it back to the foreman for evaluation.
Today:-
Here's job change the T/Case here's a new one and let me know if you need additional parts.
Job starts!
Question how do I drop the unit ? Use the tranny jack! Please show me how to use it!
Tech? continues and the t/case comes out.
I ask the question what is the tail shaft seal like, dunno you didn't ask me to check that!
are there additional parts don't think so!
OK what about the exhaust flange gaskets and studs /nuts you had to drop the exhaust--- Well you never told me to change those!
So the t/case gets installed and I finally ask did you clear the codes and fill it!
Have you done that?
NO!
Why not? You never asked me to do that! What oil goes in this! The lube label is on the case!
Then I see a rubber plug on the floor which came with the T/case!!
Where did this come from??
Oh I couldn't fit it so I threw it in the trash! Value $37,21
Now this is not a fabrication! This actually happened two weeks ago and at a review meeting the employee simply quit saying the job was too hard and intensive for him. He can get better money on the dole!
That as Mister Golden with a stellar resume and a string of ASC's.
Lord help us!
Dennis
 

Teutonic9

Member
For all of you that are trash-talking dealerships and/or repair shops regarding methods of repair, types of pay associated with service sales and an assumed general mentality about repairing a customer's car I say this: BULL****.

I've worked professionally in the automotive service industry for over 20 years, both dealer and independent. More times than not when a customer is upset about something it's a perception issue more so than fact. Some of the most honest and capable technicians I've ever worked with were at dealerships, not the independents. I get really irritated by those who think they understand the industry.

Ok, I'm done. Continue on..
 

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
I have heard that most of the problems with dealership service centers is the service writer, NOT the techs. On my one and only non-warranty trip to the Dodge dealer with my van, the tech wanted to talk to me personally about the issue, but the service writer (desk guy) would not let us talk.
 

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