DAD and Windows 7 Professional Virtual XP

2

220629

Well-known member
My wife is very happy with her new to us Off-lease Dell Lattitude D630 laptop. My desktop is old and running on XP. Rather than prolonging the agony I decided to get another D630. My plan is to load the DAD software. I do have my DAD loaded on a D610 so it isn't really critical at this point.

I just ordered the D630 with Windows 7 Professional because it reportedly supports XP where Windows 7 Home Premium doesn't.

Some information.

Windows 7 Home Premium vs Windows 7 Professional

http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/386085/windows_7_home_premium_vs_windows_7_professional/?pp=2

Windows XP Mode

Home Premium: No
Professional: Yes

This feature allows users to install Microsoft’s Virtual PC application and then install and run a complete fully licensed version of Windows XP SP3 from within the virtual PC environment.

This feature was originally developed for businesses to migrate from Windows XP to Windows 7, and give them an environment from which to continue using any older non–Windows 7 compatible software.

It is not suitable for applications which require 3D graphics or hardware accelerated sound, so gaming or even using your old TV tuner to watch TV are definite no-nos
***********************************************

Dell Latitude D630 Intel Core 2 Duo 2GB Memory 80GB HDD 14.1" Notebook Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (Off-Lease) - RB-825633377820

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8883113&sku=JOS-102314126

Anyone have experience or tips for using the Virtual XP with a DAD? Sorry if this has been covered already.

I presume I'll need to beat the April 16 XP shutdown to install XP SP3 and get any updates.

vic

Edit: The DAD unit will only work on NAS aka NAFTA T1N Sprinters (2001 - 2006 MY). It will not work at all on NCV3 models.
 
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R

robbin

Member
Aqua Puttana said:
I presume I'll need to beat the April 16 XP shutdown to install XP SP3 and get any updates.
Click to expand...
XP and all updates will remain available online. XP can still be installed after that date. There will just be no new updates issued.

"Another update (January 15): For those asking in comments below, Microsoft will continue to make all patches and fixes made to Windows XP up until April 8, 2014, available to users via Windows Update. "There are no current plans to remove existing Windows XP security updates from Windows Update after end of support on April 8, 2014," a spokesperson confirmed."

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-xp-end-of-support-in-april-three-more-questions-answered-7000025151/
 
B

Boater

New member
Not sure if this link will work properly, it's from google and I can't work out how to get the direct link because my browser just wants to open the pdf:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...5wdnt5y6f0ZsC3g&bvm=bv.63808443,d.d2k&cad=rja

The DAD has a USB connection doesn't it?
If so I believe the important info is on pages 11 and 12 - there seem to be a couple of different ways to connect USB devices, but the important thing is that you can connect devices that Windows 7 can't use, directly to the XP instance in the virtual machine. So if you need to use XP drivers to access DAD or the security dongle if it has one, then this should be possible.

Unfortunately things in computing very often don't live up to expectations and I'm afraid I have no experience to confirm if it actually works the way the document suggests.

Good Luck!
 
R

robbin

Member
mendonsy said:
No, it requires an RS-232 port. The USB serial adapters don't work well. A PC with built in RS-232 (which is what Vic has) or a PCI express card work OK.
Click to expand...
Actually I have had excellent results using the FTDIchip USB to RS232 converter on multiple computers, XP, 7, and 8. It was originally recommended in the DAD thread by Dr. A. I do not hesitate to recommend one to anyone running DAD.
 
S

shortshort

Dis member
You can pick up a used XP machine, with a native serial port, for pennies. It will kick anything running XP mode right in the taco.
 
R

robbin

Member
shortshort said:
You can pick up a used XP machine, with a native serial port, for pennies. It will kick anything running XP mode right in the taco.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for XP mode, but if you want a computer to kick some tacos with XP, running it on an old, used machine is not the way to go. XP running on my Windows 8.1 machine with touch screen and I5 core definitely kicks tacos! I prefer the reliability my new laptop which I use daily when my Sprinter needs some TLC.

Everyone should remember that any machine running XP should not be allowed to connect to the Internet after the shutoff date. I have mine configured so that XP does not have network access yet I can still use the same machine I use to run DAD to safely get on the web and access sites such as this while running my diagnostics. If you run an older, XP only machine you would be well advised not to try the same.
 
2

220629

Well-known member
shortshort said:
You can pick up a used XP machine, with a native serial port, for pennies. It will kick anything running XP mode right in the taco.
Click to expand...
My mode will be to keep using my D610 XP which is pretty much dedicated to DAD use only. The D630 will be for backup. I hope to not need it for that.

robbin said:
...
Everyone should remember that any machine running XP should not be allowed to connect to the Internet after the shutoff date.
Click to expand...
Why?

robbin said:
...
I have mine configured so that XP does not have network access yet I can still use the same machine I use to run DAD to safely get on the web and access sites such as this while running my diagnostics. If you run an older, XP only machine you would be well advised not to try the same.
Click to expand...
I'm a bit fuzzy on this.

So you have the XP Windows Virtual mode configured to not allow internet access, but the main OS still can connect to the internet?

Thanks to everyone for the input so far. vic
 
jdcaples

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Aqua Puttana said:
Originally Posted by robbin
...
Everyone should remember that any machine running XP should not be allowed to connect to the Internet after the shutoff date.
Click to expand...
Why?
Click to expand...
Source: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/03...irement-nears-businesses-weigh-upgrade-risks/

To take fullest advantage of the situation (Microsoft not providing security updates to XP), black-market vendors selling new XP exploits have been stockpiling them, waiting to release them until after Microsoft is no longer monitoring and repairing security flaws. Though third-party security firms will continue to update antimalware programs for XP, users not running or updating such software could be permanently vulnerable to an ever-growing set of exploits. Mercury Payment Systems' John Berkeley confirms that "If a hacker discovers [a vulnerability] a month or two after the end of [XP support], they have more time to exploit that."


These exploits could range from stealing credit card information from small vendors to even more dramatic forms of theft, many of them easily circumventing external security measures such as the semi-closed payments network. Botezatu says there have been reports of an ATM exploit through a mobile phone connected through an ATM's card reader. He also cites a legendary stunt by the security expert Barnaby Jack, at the Black Hat security conference in 2010, demonstrated a "Jackpotting" hack that easily emptied an XP-based ATM machine. According to Botezatu, Jack, who died in 2013, never revealed the nature of this exploit, meaning that it could remain an unpatched vulnerability in XP-based machines.

Most troubling of all, Botezatu predicts that unsecured XP machines of all kinds will be compromised by hackers to form new botnets. This kind of system, in which hacked systems' processors are put to new tasks unbeknownst to their owners, can be used for everything from massive Denial of Service attacks to mining cryptocurrency, and would add substantially to the insecurity of the internet as a whole. "I see a lot of trouble," Botezatu warns.

Whether April 9th brings a plague of cash-spewing ATMs, zombie PCs and thieving credit-card readers remains to be seen. But Botezatu sounds exasperated that he even has to consider these scenarios. "It's an operating system that was released 13 years ago. Everyone should have started migrating two or three years ago" to avoid the mad rush and risks that come with the end of support. He hopes, at least, that this episode will motivate today's users to think about the future.

"This is going to happen soon with other operating systems," Botezatu says. "You should start upgrading from Windows 7 now."
Click to expand...
 
S

shortshort

Dis member
Depends on who you believe. Many people will tell you the XP internet experience is over because MS stopped the security updates. I have friends in the technical end of computing who tell me they use a program called Eset internet security and have had windows update turned off for years. Personally, I plan to keep XP because I have to. Most of the vendors I use require it for their software.
 
jdcaples

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
If you run a virtual instance of XP on your laptop hardware, you can configure the virtual instance to have no access to the networking hardware. This is not XP-compatible mode, it's booting XP on a virtual pc running on a real pc.

Thus you get a virtual instance of XP that can't be hacked over a network interface.

The pro: you're less likely to accidentally provide personally identifiable information or personal financial info to a complete stranger.

The con: You're required to understand something you didn't previously understand.

-Jon
 
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OrioN

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
mendonsy said:
True enough, but the alternatives are even worse!!
And ... almost every PC built to run XP lacks the horsepower to run the newer versions. :2cents:
Click to expand...
I use Win 8.1 with an XP HyperV virtual... with the right setting it flys & well on either my Surface Pro or workstation.
 
jdcaples

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
shortshort said:
<snip> Personally, I plan to keep XP because I have to. Most of the vendors I use require it for their software.
Click to expand...
This is very true. Software As A Service (SaaS) outfits used to code for the lowest common denominator because people are slow to upgrade and, besides, the application software development life cycle of any given company is rarely going to match the SDLC of Microsoft, or Apple, or Linux etc.

As a result, we have a glut of services that require old versions of Internet Explorer.

Example: Using MB's electronic parts catalog (epc.startekinfo.com)

Capture.JPG

IE 8??? It's been like that for years. Yes, newer versions work, but this is the policy. I called epc support once and was told that I should not upgrade. So yes, vendors are part of the problem.

-Jon
 
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B

Boater

New member
I remember when they EOL'd windows 2000, man our workstations behind the corporate firewall were hacked like every 2 minutes right from the moment support ended......
:dripsarcasm:

In my opinion 99% of network security is about getting the users to think about what they are doing and not open attachments in suspicious emails or download software from random websites, because if they are going to do that no amount of fire-walling or security updates are going to save you. Yes there is going to be a risk period where crackers come up with exploits that no-one is going to fix but most of them are still going to require users to do something stupid to open the door for them.

If you aren't running a website from home, buy a decent firewall router, set it up to only allow traffic in response to direct requests from within your network, and continue to be careful about what you open from websites and emails and you will be at no more risk than you are now.

A lot of pro's defer windows updates for a few months to make sure they are stable and won't break more than they fix before rolling them out to thousands of corporate PCs - there is a windows update server you can run in your own network which synchronizes with MS so the administrator can pick and choose the updates they want and schedule them on their own terms (I for example exclude all hardware updates because we have found the OEM updates are generally more reliable than MS's, especially on IBM/Lenovo laptops). Would they do that if there was a serious risk in the interim?

If you are only using XP mode to access DAD and never open a browser or email client in it I don't see that it is going to be a security risk - by all means disable the network connections in XP mode (if you can) but mainly stick to only using it for the stuff you really need it for.

Sorry, I've diverged a bit. :bash:

Today my boss asked me about remote connection to our corporate network with his new windows 7 laptop. Unfortunately the SSL VPN client for our firewall doesn't work on win 7 and I have never managed to get the MS VPN stuff to connect to it (or even another brand of router). I suggested he try installing XP mode (I downloaded it and pointed him to the files) because the SSL client works fine in XP. Unfortunately he was in a hurry and didn't read the instructions first, I didn't have time to see what he did wrong, but he was unable to install it in the end and running out of time before leaving for the airport. :idunno:

So, my first experience with XP mode, albeit by proxy, has not been entirely promising - good luck!

PS: even MSE has started warning me that XP is about lose support!

PPS: anyone remember the millennium bug?

PPPS: We mostly use XP x64 edition which is built on the Win2K3 server x64 kernel rather than the XP kernel - it goes EOL with XP, yet 2K3 server has another year or 2 before EOL..... most updates are currently labelled for 2K3 and XPx64, presumably MS will be leaving the XPx64 tags off future updates to stop our systems getting them after the EOL date? Misinformation and confusion is where it's at!
 
LuckyDawgz Jim

LuckyDawgz Jim

Member
mendonsy said:
Yes you do need to get XP mode downloaded by April 16[/URL]
Click to expand...
After April 8, 2014, technical support for Windows XP and Windows XP Mode will no longer be available, including updates that help protect your PC. This means that if you continue to use Windows XP or use Windows XP Mode on a Windows 7 PC after support ends, your PC might become more vulnerable to security risks and viruses. Therefore, to keep your Windows 7 PC secure after April 8, 2014, we recommend that you only use Windows XP Mode if your PC is disconnected from the Internet.
 
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