PDA

View Full Version : Swapping Cruise control


ssssSnake
01-16-2014, 05:33 AM
Howdy,

Big thanks to everyone on this forum. I am a new (to me) Sprinter owner. I have a 2003 long and tall. It was an older DHL van that was pretty basic model. I have a neighbor who has a wrecked 2004 (He is parting out) that has Cruise control. Mine does not have the cruise control feature and I am trying to figure out if I should snag the one out of his. I can get it for 20- 40 dollars but am not sure of all the parts that I would need to remove. I have a PDF of retrofit cruise control of what appears to be an OEM system and its installation. Seems pretty straight forward but I am not sure if it would the same as swapping. I am very mechanical and have all the necessary tools but just wanted to know if anybody has ever done this before or if there any issues that may cause a problem. I realize I will have to have the ECM programmed by a dealer but think I would be able to save quite a few hundred dollars doing most of the mechanical (removal / installation) work myself. Any thoughts or issues I should be aware of?

Many many thanksssssssssssssss!

sssssssSnake

Eric Experience
01-16-2014, 10:09 AM
Mr snake.
Yes you can do it. It is straight forward except getting the wires out of the plug on the ECU. If you have permission to dismantle the ECU plug you can get the wires out. If its a Nafta vehicle I can not help with the pin No's because the plug is different to the rest of the world. You have about 50% chance that the cruise will work without a dealer switching it on. Eric

Throttlejockey
01-16-2014, 02:15 PM
Grab the ECM too!

ssssSnake
01-16-2014, 04:01 PM
Mr snake.
Yes you can do it. It is straight forward except getting the wires out of the plug on the ECU. If you have permission to dismantle the ECU plug you can get the wires out. If its a Nafta vehicle I can not help with the pin No's because the plug is different to the rest of the world. You have about 50% chance that the cruise will work without a dealer switching it on. Eric

Ok Thanks Eric! I am going to check it out. How do a tell if it is a NAFTA vehicle. It is a fedex van that was rolled over.

Also I have read conflicting reports about requiring ABS brakes. How can I tell if my vehicle has ABS brakes or not? If I don't get permission to dismantle the ECU plug, can I simply cut the wires and wire a new/different plug onto it?

Again thank you!

ssssssssSnake

ssssSnake
01-16-2014, 04:05 PM
Grab the ECM too!

Why would I want the ECM, sorry for the ignorance. Just to keep as a spare for mine? I am presuming that the ECM is the same as the ECU? - Engine control module / unit?

Sorry, I am an old school mechanic. All this electrical stuff if harder for me.

THanks!

sssssssssSnake

sailquik
01-16-2014, 04:15 PM
ssssSnake,
As far as if it's a NAFTA (NAS North American Specification) Sprinter, if it's in the USA it was part of an original
mass purchase by FedEx and it meets all the then applicable US regulations.
So, it's 99.9% certain that it's a NAFTA spec. Sprinter.
As far as the ASR, if you have a little button on your dash that has ASR or a funny looking tire on it , you have the
ASR. Best way to test would be to push that little button, and if you get a warning triangle in your speedometer,
then you have the ASR (almost sure all NAS spec. Sprinters have the ASR, but maybe FedEx could have had that
left off as it was such a large purchase to FedEx specifications.
Not sure you can change the ECM (Electronic Control Module....PCM (Powertrain Control Module in Dodge speak) between a
2003 OM-612 and the donor 2004 OM-647.
2 different engine series here, could cause some real issues electronically.
The reason changing the ECM was suggested is that the 2004 donor module is already reprogrammed/preprogrammed to
work with the Cruise control module.
There would probably be some compatibility issues due to the different engine series as well as your skreem and other
vehicle specific parameters/values that would need to be carefully managed if it will work at all.
When I had the 2006 T1N (it came from a large Office Depot mass purchase so no Cruise Control) I paid around $800
(parts and labor) to a Dodge dealer to install the factory aftermarket Cruise, and it worked flawlessly.
Maybe it would make more sense to see if the correct aftermarket factory Cruise Control package for your 2003 (by
VIN#) is available and you do the mechanical stuff, then take it in to be programmed.
Hope this helps,
Roger

hulagun
01-16-2014, 04:28 PM
And if you can't make the cruise control work it should work in any 2004- 2006 T1n. I might be interested in buying it.

I intend someday to get and install the factory cruise control parts and then remove the working aftermarket cc in my van intact so someone else can use it. Since for 2004-2006 it is apparently simple to install a factory one I'd rather have the OEM version.

autostaretx
01-16-2014, 04:40 PM
Another item: if you DO take/keep the donor (FedEx) vehicle's ECM/ECU, *also* get the SKREEM module (it's mounted under the hump of the instrument panel, a box attached to the back of the instrument cluster) *and* the FedEx keys. (probably the ignition switch and door locks, too).

The ECU and SKREEM "know" about each other, and the SKREEM knows the chipped keys that the FedEx van was using.
Just swapping one (the ECU or SKREEM) ain't enough.. you've either got to swap them both (together) or send your final set off to SOS Diagnostics (or similar) to have them reprogrammed to be happy with each other *and* the keys you'll be using.

Your other headache is that the 2003 (OM 612 engine) and 2004 (OM 647 engine) quite likely have different ECUs (plugs or programming), so the swap/exchange/"spare" idea may not work at all.

Cruise control: the "hardware" is only the stalk switch to tell the ECU you'd like to engage it.
The ECU has to be programmed (a software switch flipped from "no" to "yup, he paid for it") to be willing to actually honor the switch's request.

--dick

Aqua Puttana
01-16-2014, 04:50 PM
My comments here refer to swapping ECM's only. See post 12 for Eric's comments.

The computers are completely different. The NAS 2003 and NAS 2004 ECM (aka ECU) will not swap one to the other at all UNLESS the wrecked 2004 happens to be a RV conversion built on an older T1N chassis with OM612 engine.

I wonder if S.O.S. Diagnostics or other tuner would offer the owner some cash for the 2004 ECM and SKREEM module?

vic

Edit: I was referring to swapping only ECM's (aka ECU's) proper above. I was not referring to using the cruise control one to the other. Eric said it well in post 12. Sorry for any confusion if someone crossed my answer over to using the cruise parts from the 2004.

ssssSnake
01-16-2014, 05:03 PM
ssssSnake,
As far as if it's a NAFTA (NAS North American Specification) Sprinter, if it's in the USA it was part of an original
mass purchase by FedEx and it meets all the then applicable US regulations.
So, it's 99.9% certain that it's a NAFTA spec. Sprinter.
As far as the ASR, if you have a little button on your dash that has ASR or a funny looking tire on it , you have the
ASR. Best way to test would be to push that little button, and if you get a warning triangle in your speedometer,
then you have the ASR (almost sure all NAS spec. Sprinters have the ASR, but maybe FedEx could have had that
left off as it was such a large purchase to FedEx specifications.
Not sure you can change the ECM (Electronic Control Module....PCM (Powertrain Control Module in Dodge speak) between a
2003 OM-612 and the donor 2004 OM-647.
2 different engine series here, could cause some real issues electronically.
The reason changing the ECM was suggested is that the 2004 donor module is already reprogrammed/preprogrammed to
work with the Cruise control module.
There would probably be some compatibility issues due to the different engine series as well as your skreem and other
vehicle specific parameters/values that would need to be carefully managed if it will work at all.
When I had the 2006 T1N (it came from a large Office Depot mass purchase so no Cruise Control) I paid around $800
(parts and labor) to a Dodge dealer to install the factory aftermarket Cruise, and it worked flawlessly.
Maybe it would make more sense to see if the correct aftermarket factory Cruise Control package for your 2003 (by
VIN#) is available and you do the mechanical stuff, then take it in to be programmed.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Sailquik,

Thank you for the feedback! It does not have the ASR button anywhere on the dash.

Think I will pass on the ECM unit for the reasons you described.

I kinda was planning on having the CC installed via a real pro but being the cheap bastard I am and seeing that I could get this one for pretty cheap, thought it was worth $40 chance to
swap it out. Could always get my money back on resell if not useable.

Much appreciate the feedback!

ssssssssssSnake

PSssssss - SO if it is the NAFTA version and the plug is different, can the plug be cut off and swapped with the proper one?

ssssSnake
01-16-2014, 05:13 PM
This wrecked FEdex van is located in Vancouver WA 98663. I will gladly hand over the contact info for fellow Sprinter owners if anyone would like to speak with the guy! Just send me a PM.

Eric Experience
01-17-2014, 09:26 AM
Mr snake.
To clarify the electrical plug issue. The cruise control is just a switch that tells the ECU that you would like to use the cruise function. so to make it work you just have to connect the switch to the ECU. In order to connect to the ECU you will need to get the correct pins from the ECU plug and place them in your ECU plug. Its not a matter of cutting the wires and putting a "proper" plug on it. the Proper and only plug is already there on the ECU you have to add the pins to it. You do not have to worry about the electronics not being there, The cruise control hardware and software have not changed since 1998. You will not need any reprogramming or any thing like that unless the software has been set to "off" in which case you can get someone with a scanner to switch it on. Eric

hulagun
01-17-2014, 04:29 PM
Lots of informative posts in the archives here on swapping pins in connectors for fitting c/c. Some have drawings.

Vic's comprehensive write up:
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13925&highlight=cruise+control

Putting a 04-06 part in a 2003 van or vice versa requires ordering parts (pins) and time figuring out which pins go where. Cross your fingers you get it right and that the used unit is in good shape.

The correct new c/c control arm is priced about $184 from Dodge.

ssssSnake
01-17-2014, 04:37 PM
Thank you Eric and Hulagun! That's all gold!

hulagun
01-17-2014, 04:52 PM
Thank you Eric and Hulagun! That's all gold!

Happy to help! Don't forget to hit the "Thanks" button early and often. :thumbup:

ssssSnake
04-02-2014, 12:32 AM
Update:

This is for a 2003 ex DHL van. Long Tall. Believe it to be the NAFTA version.

Ok, So I scored an MFS with the cruise control stalk/switch off ebay for a good deal!

I followed the retrofit instructions and have my "new" MFS and cruise stalk installed. I had the pins and connector ordered and arrived last week. The wire is routed properly and I am ready to start wiring it to the ECM.

I studied the retrofit PDF instructions. I pulled my ECM down and it doesn't look like the ECM in the instructions. Am I just overwhelmed and need to study the connections better or is my ECM simply not compatible?

Also can anyone post my DATA card? Not sure how to get it myself. Here is a pic of the VIN.

Many many thankssssssssssss!

ssssSnake
04-02-2014, 12:33 AM
Here is the VIN pic for the Data Card:

autostaretx
04-02-2014, 12:46 AM
Either send your VIN as a private message to sailquik (and include an email address for him to send the PDF result to), or post a note in the "show me your datacard" thread (and still include the email).

There are two distinct flavors of ECM: one has (if i recall correctly) two connectors, and the other has five(?).
Which flavor do YOU have?
The 2003 and 2006 service manuals can be downloaded from http://aie-services-2.net/Sprinter/
I don't recall if they show the two different configurations.

There have been threads on the two flavors... the blue bar's Search tool will be your friend.

--dick

ssssSnake
04-02-2014, 01:06 AM
Either send your VIN as a private message to sailquik (and include an email address for him to send the PDF result to), or post a note in the "show me your datacard" thread (and still include the email).

There are two distinct flavors of ECM: one has (if i recall correctly) two connectors, and the other has five(?).
Which flavor do YOU have?
The 2003 and 2006 service manuals can be downloaded from http://aie-services-2.net/Sprinter/
I don't recall if they show the two different configurations.

There have been threads on the two flavors... the blue bar's Search tool will be your friend.

--dick


Thanks Dick. I just sent a PM to Sailquik. Will post the DATA card on the proper thread when I get it.

Looks like my ECM is the 5 connection style. The PDF cruise retrofit instructions are for the two (F style) connection. I will diligently search the forum for more info but do you have any experience/opinion with connecting the CC to the 5 connection ECM?

Thankssssssssssss!

I am a little nervous pulling that thang out and cracking it open but guess I should just disconnect it and have a look see!

ssssSnake
04-02-2014, 01:21 AM
Think I found it!

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16419&highlight=cruise+control+ECM

Thanks again Dick for the info. I printed these out and will study them to see if I can make heads or tails of it!

Looks like this guy had the same problem. Wish he would have followed up and posted a success/failure. I sent him a PM for insight.

Best!
-sssssssssSnake

djc126
04-02-2014, 03:35 AM
Hi ssssSnake.

In summary, your 03 van does not have the ASR button (but does the light show in the cluster?).
Perhaps it had been (re)moved (take out your cigarette lighter tray for a look underneath the panel).

It's possible your van does not have ABS brakes either - if there is no ASR.
Again check for the dash light.

My local dealer tech stated that factory cruise cannot be installed if the van does not have ABS already.

With the dealer parts - you still have to make your own harness to connect to the appropriate ECM pins.

This is a mod I'm planning to do soon on my 02. But mine has ABS/ASR.

It's likely the ECM is programmed for cruise OFF as the default. The dealer wants a huge fee for activating the cruise feature.

Regards,

ssssSnake
04-02-2014, 05:19 AM
Hi ssssSnake.

In summary, your 03 van does not have the ASR button (but does the light show in the cluster?).
Perhaps it had been (re)moved (take out your cigarette lighter tray for a look underneath the panel).

It's possible your van does not have ABS brakes either - if there is no ASR.
Again check for the dash light.

My local dealer tech stated that factory cruise cannot be installed if the van does not have ABS already.

With the dealer parts - you still have to make your own harness to connect to the appropriate ECM pins.

This is a mod I'm planning to do soon on my 02. But mine has ABS/ASR.

It's likely the ECM is programmed for cruise OFF as the default. The dealer wants a huge fee for activating the cruise feature.

Regards,

My van does NOT have the ASR switch on the console..however, there IS a pigtail underneath the console. I was wondering what it was for but think this thread explains it.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30077&highlight=data+card

It does have the ARS and ABS LIGHTS.

I do have the connector, pins and color coded wires, I just need to assemble the pigtail. Lastly, still scratching my head on how to connect it to the ECM. Will update when I figure it out.