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yosprinter
12-23-2013, 11:26 PM
2002 Sprinter 2500 with 190,000. In the past twelve months we have had the following issues. It began with the high pressure fuel pump needing to be rebuilt (thank you Dk.A!), then the alternator died and needed replacement. Van ran rough with black smoke. Replaced the fuel filter and air filter. Still ran rough with black smoke and had no power. Thought it was an EGR valve so we replaced it, still ran horribly with black smoke on acceleration. Finally took him to the Dodge Dealership (only place around who will work on Sprinters). They replaced the fuel injectors and a hose. Black smoke is gone, engine runs fine until you hit 2800 RPMs. The check engine light kicks on the and he won't accelerate above 2800. Turn off the engine and it resets itself. Drives fine until you 2800 RPMs again. Other than this minor (!!!) issue, van runs great. Then came the whistle, slowly it appeared. Now, whenever you accelerate, there is very high pitched whistle. We thought it was a leak in a hose. You only hear the whistle when the van is under load. Finally returned him to the dealership. The tech. must remove all the fuel injectors. Called back today, was told the mechanic was needing to drop the fuel tank. I assume to check the fuel pump? OF course, you cannot actually speak with the mechanic to determine whether they actually have an idea what the problem may be or whether they are just checking everything in hopes of uncovering something. Any way, any thoughts?

sailquik
12-23-2013, 11:58 PM
Sounds a lot like a turbocharger hose or charge air cooler leak to me.
Don't have any idea why they want to drop your fuel tank. There is no fuel pump inside on a 2002 2500 Sprinter.
The high pitched whistle you hear sounds like the turbo or a hose is leaking, dumping your boost pressure at right about 2800 RPM.
Very well could be that the engine gets to 2800.... the leak in the turbo hoses/CAC/fittings opens up so you hear the whistling sound and
the ECM detects that you have low boost and shuts your engine down into LHM.
Sounds like you need a different dealer, and perhaps a Scan Gauge II or similar so you can monitor the boost pressure to see if it's normal
and if it drops when you reach 2800 RPM.
Hope this helps,
Roger
P.S. You could test all the induction (turbo) hoses and the CAC with a soap bubble solution.
When the pressure builds, if there are leaks, you will see bubbles appear at the leak site (s).

pgr
12-24-2013, 12:02 AM
I don't think the '03 fuel pump is in the tank like the '04s but I could be mistaken. Sometimes you'll get a turbo whistle if you've replaced the plastic resonator pipe with the aluminum one (at least on my '04).

Aqua Puttana
12-24-2013, 12:04 AM
I will try to help. I am not a professional Sprinter technician.

2002 Sprinter 2500 with 190,000. In the past twelve months we have had the following issues. It began with the high pressure fuel pump needing to be rebuilt (thank you Dk.A!),
To quote another member, Doktor A is the Yoda of the Sprinter world. :bow:


then the alternator died and needed replacement.
Well... 190,000 miles... nothing lasts forever.

Van ran rough with black smoke. Replaced the fuel filter and air filter. Still ran rough with black smoke and had no power. Thought it was an EGR valve so we replaced it, still ran horribly with black smoke on acceleration. Finally took him to the Dodge Dealership (only place around who will work on Sprinters). They replaced the fuel injectors and a hose.
ALL the injectors? If they replaced them ALL. What methods did they use to condemn ALL the injectors? A hose? Where? In the turbo charge air system maybe?


Black smoke is gone, engine runs fine until you hit 2800 RPMs. The check engine light kicks on the and he won't accelerate above 2800. Turn off the engine and it resets itself. Drives fine until you 2800 RPMs again. Other than this minor (!!!) issue, van runs great.
2800 rpm LHM Limp Home Mode is a specific symptom/response for Sprinters.

"By the way. A problem with the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor may limit to 2800 RPM. The difference between 2800 and 3200 RPM should be noted when doing the engine speed test."

More info is here.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17702


Then came the whistle, slowly it appeared. Now, whenever you accelerate, there is very high pitched whistle. We thought it was a leak in a hose. You only hear the whistle when the van is under load. Finally returned him to the dealership.
Check for an exhaust leak.

Remove the turbo heat shield. (3 fasteners. 10 mm socket or wrench) Inspect at night using a flashlight. I didn't find my problem until I used that Doktor A recommended method. Some info is here.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=161657#post161657

The good news is that the exhaust leak whistle is just a nuisance. In my experience it does not affect engine operation. My "temporary" repair stud is still holding strong and that included a disassembly for inspection of integrity. vic
As always, you can access the original thread/post by clicking the blue arrow icon within the quote box.

The tech. must remove all the fuel injectors.
ALL the fuel injectors which were recently replaced?? :bash:

Called back today, was told the mechanic was needing to drop the fuel tank. I assume to check the fuel pump? OF course, you cannot actually speak with the mechanic to determine whether they actually have an idea what the problem may be or whether they are just checking everything in hopes of uncovering something.
It is highly unlikely that dropping the fuel tank will get rid of your whistle.
Any way, any thoughts?
Find another dealership.

I say all the above without ever having been in sight of your vehicle. :2cents:

Good luck. vic

P.S. = I composed slowly while others were answering.

lindenengineering
12-24-2013, 12:38 AM
Again a no brainer to find.
Get someone to smoke the inlet manifolding with a smoke machine, many shops have them for finding leaks like this. It injects theatrical smoke in the whole system and will find a leak no matter how small.

Equally the flange gasket at exhaust manifold to turbo is deteriorated will kick up a whistle as the exhaust back pressure gets elevated to spool up the turbo under supply pressure. Again a smoke machine up its backside through the exhaust tail pipe giving it a "smoky en enema"
will trace that fault!

If that all fails to reveal any concrete results have someone check the inlet turbine for blade contact within the inlet snail housing.
Excessive shaft wear will deflect under turbine blow pressure causing case/blade contact. In turn it will emit a whistle and slightly lower blow pressure which can be plotted with a scanner as the noise starts.

This is what the big truck Mechs'n Techs like us have been doing for decades, so any diesel Mech worth his salt should be able to find it.
Cheers Dennis
The Diesel Proctologist!:bounce::bounce:

Amboman
12-24-2013, 12:49 AM
Called back today, was told the mechanic was needing to drop the fuel tank.

bwhahahahaha :lol::lol::lol::wtf::wtf::wtf:

lindenengineering
12-24-2013, 12:59 AM
I don't think the '03 fuel pump is in the tank like the '04s but I could be mistaken. Sometimes you'll get a turbo whistle if you've replaced the plastic resonator pipe with the aluminum one (at least on my '04).

Affirmative
NO pump in the tank!
Just a "silent" level gauge assy!
Fuel feed pump is to be found sitting up front on the front of the cylinder head, a dead giveaway of the 2002/2003 units.

Fine old engine.
Dennis

yosprinter
12-24-2013, 03:29 AM
To bring some sense to this nonsense. I contacted the dealership and asked that nothing more be done to our van without my first speaking with the Tech. Finally spoke with the Tech who reports the following; the whistle was caused by a screw missing on the EGR valve which compromised the gasket. Replaced the missing screw and the gasket but still there was a fuel pressure issue under load. He traced the cause all the back to the fuel tank. Believes the filter is plugged. . This is why you actually speak to the person working on the van and not rely on the information provided to you by the person who answers the phone.

lindenengineering
12-24-2013, 03:38 AM
To bring some sense to this nonsense. I contacted the dealership and asked that nothing more be done to our van without my first speaking with the Tech. Finally spoke with the Tech who reports the following; the whistle was caused by a screw missing on the EGR valve which compromised the gasket. Replaced the missing screw and the gasket but still there was a fuel pressure issue under load. He traced the cause all the back to the fuel tank. Believes the filter is plugged. . This is why you actually speak to the person working on the van and not rely on the information provided to you by the person who answers the phone.

Fuel pick up is a sock strainer on the stand pipe located inside the fuel pick up module.
Its not a filter in the sense of the word.
Fuel pick up issues can be the work of a rotted out suction hose running from the fuel sender unit to the steel fuel pipe on the chassis. The moulded hose is a 7 mm L shaped hose opening up to 10mm at the steel pipe. A favourite for drawing air or rotting out inside restricting fuel.
Changed two last week when the temps dropped to minus figures.
Glad you seems to be getting somewhere,
'Dennis