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alans09r
12-16-2013, 09:19 PM
HELP - Brand new Mercedes DPF installed, will not regenerate.
There must be a bad sensor or something, but which sensor?
Only code that comes up is DPF plugged
After 16,000km and no regeneration, Dealer had to force a regeneration.
Any ideas, help, input, appreciated.
AL

flman
12-16-2013, 10:05 PM
So, what does the dealer have to say? Can they fix it? Tell them it is a Lemon if it cant be repaired.

BTW, I am anti DPF.

alans09r
12-18-2013, 09:33 PM
So, what does the dealer have to say? Can they fix it? Tell them it is a Lemon if it cant be repaired.

BTW, I am anti DPF.

I fully understand your feelings re DPF's after spending close to $8,000 in the past 6 weeks trying to solve this DPF issue. Replaced after-market DPF because it wouldn't regenerate with a genuine model which won't regenerate either. Dealer has no answers. Chris at Midland (UK) has offered some input and am am working through those, but so far not much luck. Paid $90 to force rgeneration and if there is no solution it will mean doing this monthly. Bye the way, spoke to a service tech who said he had a customer in the USA with 8 Sprinters and 4 of thsoe are having the same problem.
No DPF, the van won't run!

1109
12-28-2013, 01:16 PM
did you try re-setting the computer, maybe it needs to be told the DPF is new??? BTW how do you force regen?? Dont you just drive it at high RPM for several miles.

mean_in_green
12-28-2013, 01:59 PM
The dealer level scan tool can perform a much hotter regeneration than either the passive or active actions you see as an owner.

lindenengineering
12-28-2013, 03:32 PM
There have been a number of updates/re-flashes on that system.
Don't labor it, simply consult the dealer for the latest and greatest update.

Its part of emission controls and is covered by a comprehensive warranty.
That is what they are there for--Dealers! Not only to fix the issue per factory directives, but give warranty feedback to the factory as part of product development.
Dennis

alans09r
01-01-2014, 05:24 PM
Thanks for your responses.
Booked into Mercedes for week of Jan 6 to solve this issue for once and for all.

lindenengineering
01-01-2014, 05:35 PM
Thanks for your responses.
Booked into Mercedes for week of Jan 6 to solve this issue for once and for all.

Alan
Ask for the print out of the diagnostics and the prescribed remedy from the RO/JC.
See if you can share this info to us.
Happy New Year
Dennis

alans09r
01-02-2014, 01:03 AM
Dennis:
I will do that.
Happy New Year to All.
Alan

flattop9119
01-02-2014, 10:48 PM
If you have fitted a new DPF a STAR machine will need to be connected and the system told that a new unit has been fitted before it will do anything.

lindenengineering
01-03-2014, 01:53 AM
If you have fitted a new DPF a STAR machine will need to be connected and the system told that a new unit has been fitted before it will do anything.

Yes so will an Autologic, the Independents' choice made in the UK!
Bloody good tool.
Dennis

Expert Marine
01-03-2014, 05:59 PM
Why? What would happen if you don't?

alans09r
01-04-2014, 03:02 AM
If you have fitted a new DPF a STAR machine will need to be connected and the system told that a new unit has been fitted before it will do anything.

That was done.

alans09r
01-19-2014, 05:26 PM
Update on DPF

A visit to the Mercedes service unleashed only more issues. They could find no codes that would suggest there was a problem.
I read somewhere that the GLOW PLUGS were essential for the regeneration and both #2 and #6 were not working for some time, therefore I suggested the dealer replace them.
The mechanic started and broke off the #2 plug, for which I paid $235.
I supplied a new Pressure Sensor to be installed, but that involved a lot of work because the original was apparently seized.
They forced a regeneration and I left with a new sensor and a broken glow plug. $635.

Estimate from a dealer to fix the glow plug problem, $400 to $2500 depending on whether or not the head has to come off.
I could go back from time to time to the dealer and pay for a forced regeneration, but I understand that forced regeneration takes a toll on the DPF and eventually causes a complete failure of the system.

Sadly when I bought this van for $68,000 in 2007 I thought it was mine. Over the years however it seems clear that it still belongs to Dodge inasmuch as I am forced to go to a dealer to find out what is wrong with my vehicle as they have access to a computer which reads a bevvy of codes. If I truly owned this van I would be able to regenerate the DPF at home on my own.

The codes of course are another problem because so many of the codes point to a number of possible issues instead of just one. That makes no sense. Fault Specific codes might be a solution, but I guess nobody has ever thought of that.

Secondly, the codes read by my Scantool that can be deciphered by Dodge could not be understood by Mercedes mechanic, I guess that's because there are zero's after his numbers!!! I don't know, I am just amazed that this product is so poorly supported. As someone remarked, going into LMP mode on the highway can be extremely dangerous, particularly if passing.

Anyway, I love my Sprinter and have put almost 900,000km on it, and replaced almost every mechanical part over the years, but I think I need to look around for a 2005/2006 model without this DPF nightmare.

Alan

lindenengineering
01-19-2014, 06:13 PM
Alan
I am still working on a 2011 beast that came as a wrecked basket case. In short a project and learning WTF is going on here platform. The owner bought it in an auction needed his head tested!
So far
Having got it fettled to a point where we can drive it, the animal faulted out on a blocked up Cat & Def system and a fault on #6 glow plug.. OK the glow was bad, it was replaced but now it throws a code on #'s 2 and 6 as faulty--same as yours. At the the same time we tore out the EGR cooler and inserted a freshly cleaned unit plus sensors (all broken) This is a task for tomorrow re-investigate this glow plug fault . jury out!
Also
We have opened the cat assy south of the manifold and it contains a smallish filter south of the entrance then the cat proper. Aft of that whole assy is double unit what looks like a muffler set; but is in fact the particulate filter regen unit on later models. On the top you will see the Def fluid injector coming in at an angle south of the entrance then a two sensors fore and aft.
We opened these two up they weren't too dirty, cleaned them then scorched it all back together.
I don't think this will on your model by the way, yours must be a tier 3 compliant unit

Now so far we have had to replace the pressure differential sensor mounted aft of the expansion tank on the engine side of the step foot well. It is connected to pipes than run to locations just below the inlet and outlet of the cat. We found these two pipe blocked up with carbon. This valve has been superseded to a new spec by the way. So first point of service on these units is to regularity clean that pipe set--A La Ford 'cos in that respect its the same!

By the way guys, if you have a bash at this CUT the two rubber like connector hoses off and use genuine new ones they get really hard and will break the sensor tube connectors. New one latest and greatest is $74.

I have a suspicion that the system is controlled/triggered by the monitors, step programs in the PCM that must close before the next control phase. The glow system might be part of a glow plug monitor as well as cat monitors 02 monitors etc etc .

From what I can see it looked like MB did an add on to the existing wiring harness to accomplish this "set up"--I am being kind!
For info:-
On many gasoline cars there was a secondary smog pump added to clean up the exhaust from 2001 onwards. For it to work, all 5 or in some cases 7 emission OBD2 monitors must be closed. If it doesn't see the closing of these monitors then in many cases it flags a fault. This too was an add on in most cases to to satisfy the Feds on later emissions regs

So far I am not happy with the exhaust back pressure in spite of cleaning at the cat and that inlet filter is far too small for the job--in short a pile of crap.

We are going to soldier on and find a solution. I can taste & smell it literally! :rolleyes: Whatta mess
I will no doubt post more surprises as we progress!
Dennis

Expert Marine
01-20-2014, 06:18 AM
Alan
I am still working on a 2011 beast that came as a wrecked basket case. In short a project and learning WTF is going on here platform. The owner bought it in an auction needed his head tested!
So far
Having got it fettled to a point where we can drive it, the animal faulted out on a blocked up Cat & Def system and a fault on #6 glow plug.. OK the glow was bad, it was replaced but now it throws a code on #'s 2 and 6 as faulty--same as yours. At the the same time we tore out the EGR cooler and inserted a freshly cleaned unit plus sensors (all broken) This is a task for tomorrow re-investigate this glow plug fault . jury out!
Also
We have opened the cat assy south of the manifold and it contains a smallish filter south of the entrance then the cat proper. Aft of that whole assy is double unit what looks like a muffler set; but is in fact the particulate filter regen unit on later models. On the top you will see the Def fluid injector coming in at an angle south of the entrance then a two sensors fore and aft.
We opened these two up they weren't too dirty, cleaned them then scorched it all back together.
I don't think this will on your model by the way, yours must be a tier 3 compliant unit

Now so far we have had to replace the pressure differential sensor mounted aft of the expansion tank on the engine side of the step foot well. It is connected to pipes than run to locations just below the inlet and outlet of the cat. We found these two pipe blocked up with carbon. This valve has been superseded to a new spec by the way. So first point of service on these units is to regularity clean that pipe set--A La Ford 'cos in that respect its the same!

By the way guys, if you have a bash at this CUT the two rubber like connector hoses off and use genuine new ones they get really hard and will break the sensor tube connectors. New one latest and greatest is $74.

I have a suspicion that the system is controlled/triggered by the monitors, step programs in the PCM that must close before the next control phase. The glow system might be part of a glow plug monitor as well as cat monitors 02 monitors etc etc .

From what I can see it looked like MB did an add on to the existing wiring harness to accomplish this "set up"--I am being kind!
For info:-
On many gasoline cars there was a secondary smog pump added to clean up the exhaust from 2001 onwards. For it to work, all 5 or in some cases 7 emission OBD2 monitors must be closed. If it doesn't see the closing of these monitors then in many cases it flags a fault. This too was an add on in most cases to to satisfy the Feds on later emissions regs

So far I am not happy with the exhaust back pressure in spite of cleaning at the cat and that inlet filter is far too small for the job--in short a pile of crap.

We are going to soldier on and find a solution. I can taste & smell it literally! :rolleyes: Whatta mess
I will no doubt post more surprises as we progress!
Dennis

It would be great to see pics of what you described CAT / FILTERS ???. Did you take any?

alans09r
01-20-2014, 05:09 PM
The DEF Fluid injector was an addition on the 2008 or 2009 Sprinters. Don't have one on my 2007 (thank God because I know that wouldn't work either). Spent over $24,000 in parts and service last year including a new CAT and DPF.
Would just like the van to work after all that and not continually have issues.
It's worse than a wife, though not as expensive!
Alan

dr.ona
01-20-2014, 06:24 PM
Dear God that is one of the most horrific Sprinter stories I've heard yet Alan...
Good luck with the issues.

showkey
01-20-2014, 10:02 PM
The DEF Fluid injector was an addition on the 2008 or 2009 Sprinters. Don't have one on my 2007 (thank God because I know that wouldn't work either). Spent over $24,000 in parts and service last year including a new CAT and DPF.
Would just like the van to work after all that and not continually have issues.
It's worse than a wife, though not as expensive!
Alan


DEF was added to 2010 and new models.


DPF was added to 2007 and newer models.

vitola231
01-22-2014, 12:59 PM
alans09r. I'm going to try to give you a piece of advice that may work, I'm not sure. I think it is obvious to you as I that our local service dealer sucs! However, I started bringing my vehicles to Finch GM on Wonderland south of Oxford. I know, same owner but the service is magnificent and they have some access do to same owner. I go there often now, if your appointment is at 8am, your van goes in at 8am not sit outside all day while you loose money and they're very nice. Plus they're service department answers the phone! I have been contemplating a drive to mercedes Burlington, they have an intake de carbonizing machine there so may give it a go.

lindenengineering
01-23-2014, 03:54 AM
For some info and as an update.
Should the system go into a limp mode the most likely fault is "carbon contamination too high for regeneration".

This fault causes a super hard code and locks out the system--in short you are in permanent limp mode.

Normally with a decent Pro Scanner (like Snappy) most codes can be wiped out if only to come back after a drive cycle if you don't find/locate/properly clear the fault. This rings true for most of the domestics--BUT with the MB system you have to consult the dealer to eradicate the code and reset the system.

I have a call into Autologic to see if there is an update to my tool (read expensive one) to avoid the dealership clear out route.

More updates later but I will have an explanation of all the elements of the system which includes 7 sensors to monitor the system as a whole.

Not easy!
(Sorry MB--- Yankee systems are simpler to fix)
Dennis

alans09r
01-24-2014, 10:22 PM
Dennis:
Lots of good information thanks.
Just went to Maine/NB and back, 2000miles round trip, no LMP, great acceleration.
Checked codes 1/2 way.

P2138 and P2134 Glowplugs 2& 6 O/C
P2668 Component G3/2 (O2 sensor Upstream of TWC) thrustfault value below limit
P2626 DPF soot content too high for regeneration (this less than 500miles after forced regen)
------------------------------------------

I guess P2668 is about Ox sensor, but when I look at prices they seem to range from $5-600 from the dealer to $150-200 online. Are there different types?
Is there more than one, like Right, left etc?
Just wondering, you seem to know a great deal about these vans.
Alan

BTW had (carbonned up) manifolds changed about 100,000miles ago - big bucks - don't really understand why they can't be de-carbonized.

72chevy4x4
01-24-2014, 11:29 PM
alans09r, are you indicating that you had to install new exhaust manifolds because the dealer can't clean them of the crud inside? That is ludicrous.

lindenengineering
01-25-2014, 12:59 AM
Dennis:
Lots of good information thanks.
Just went to Maine/NB and back, 2000miles round trip, no LMP, great acceleration.
Checked codes 1/2 way.

P2138 and P2134 Glowplugs 2& 6 O/C
P2668 Component G3/2 (O2 sensor Upstream of TWC) thrustfault value below limit
P2626 DPF soot content too high for regeneration (this less than 500miles after forced regen)
------------------------------------------

I guess P2668 is about Ox sensor, but when I look at prices they seem to range from $5-600 from the dealer to $150-200 online. Are there different types?
Is there more than one, like Right, left etc?
Just wondering, you seem to know a great deal about these vans.
Alan


BTW had (carbonned up) manifolds changed about 100,000miles ago - big bucks - don't really understand why they can't be de-carbonized.



Alan
It is normal to find a high mark up on 02 sensors at dealerships.
The application is the same dealer or aftermarket as long as you use the same brand (in this case Bosch) and cross check the I/D part number on the body of the sensor.

Yes I work on them every day this one I am refering to is the Sprinter from hell "basket case" that we have put back together--properly!

We are still learning things about them and like any modern vehicle just when you think you have covered most of the issues there are always some fault combinations that will throw you a "googlie" (English term for as curve ball with spin as in cricket ) even after years of fixing the same series of issues.

This DEF system I believe is throwing the dealerships with hard to fix faults so I don't feel too bad that we haven't been able to nail it down BUT the excessive back pressure from new appears to be of concern to me. Why they have it at that level is a mystery to me.
It defies good engineering gas flow practices I was taught in the MV industry doing installations /re-powers --But the rules keep changing--This is one of them.
Dennis

showkey
01-25-2014, 02:46 AM
alans09r, are you indicating that you had to install new exhaust manifolds because the dealer can't clean them of the crud inside? That is ludicrous.


I suspect he means intake manifolds with carbon stuck swirl valves............:idunno::idunno:

Expert Marine
02-04-2014, 09:39 PM
On the OM642 jeeps there seems to be problematic swirl valves. They often bypass them. What is the purpose of them on sprinters and where they located?

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

showkey
02-04-2014, 11:42 PM
On the OM642 jeeps there seems to be problematic swirl valves. They often bypass them. What is the purpose of them on sprinters and where they located?

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

They are in the intake runners and are there to mix the EGR gases with the incoming air charge.
Think the Jeep and Sprinter systems are the same. Most of the problems occur with higher mileage........but are expensive to fix, but covered under emissions warranty if in coverage parameters. Likely the same crap that fouls the EGR also fouls the swirl valves, nasty environment.

Several other manufactures have them and also have trouble with them too.

alans09r
02-07-2014, 02:26 PM
alans09r, are you indicating that you had to install new exhaust manifolds because the dealer can't clean them of the crud inside? That is ludicrous.

I may be wrong, but I think in this day and age and for many years back, dealers no longer fix things (as in repair). They replace parts.
Generally if there isn't a code, they don't seem to know what to do, while if there is a code, frequently it could be any manner of items that are causing the code.

Auto mechanics today (by the way I am 71, driving since age 14) seem to rely almost totally on the codes generated by automobile computers, which if were designed to be specific, would be an ideal.
However these codes are not specific and that I find to be ridiculous.

Further, I believe that when I make such a large purchase, the vehicle should be entirely mine to access any way I want to, including knowing what is going wrong.
Instead of that, I find I am actually owning only the body and actually leasing the rest from the dealers.
If I truly had full ownership of the vehicle, a code reader would be a part of my electronics on-board and be able to read out TO ME, what is wrong, going wrong or failing. Clearly the absence of that piece of equipment is by design, to keep the purchaser tethered to a dealer after the sale.
Of course you could go out and buy a proper code reader if you have the cash, but it still won't be specific enough to rely on, and anyway, why should you have to?
Why should you have to drive to a dealership or have your vehicle towed there for them to charge you $100 or so to plug a reader in? It's crazy and it's robbery.

Particularly in the case of commercial vehicles, a "clear and concise" reader should be a mandatory part of the electronic package and in my opinion the vehicle buying public is seriously remiss in not insisting on this. Such a device would likely be smaller than a cigarette pack and be accessible as a written readout via the dash replacing all those other idiot lights you need a manual to understand.

Manufacturers are happy adding features like "no driver" and plugs-ins for everything from a TV to a cel phone, but not one of these devices will help you if you suddenly go into LMP mode and have to pay to be towed to a dealer. And by the way, suddenly going into LMP mode can be extremely dangerous, whether that danger comes from other traffic, weather or surprise, and could easily take your life or that of some other poor buggar on your highway. Makes you think about what you bought, and then bought in to!

Anyway, that's my rant for the day.
Alan

lindenengineering
02-07-2014, 08:32 PM
Alan
I have read your post:laughing:
Welcome to the 21st century and I know & understand where you are coming from being only a couple of years than you.

Basically being in the MV business since I was 9 years of age (my dad had shop in England) things like the gripes you mention were forecast in the 1970's; its just that no-one really took any notice of upcoming trends and implications.

Manufactures have been steadily been closing their intellectual property access to the programs in your car for years now, and only the trained and "knowledgeable" have been able to access it. The dealer chains are part of the equation which maintains this business personna. The same goes for basic tech info, what was once in the manual has now has to be purchased by going on line and buying E info time by the hour, day, week, month etc.

The whole business is under the grasp of the dealer chains whether it be here in the US, up where you are, or over the other side of the pond!
Essentially when you buy a car, you buy it on their terms, their conditions!
Walk into a dealer in the industrialized world, and ask to buy a new car subject to your common law rights! AND they will refuse to sell it to you!

The same is the featherbed ambience local authorities give the dealer boards in very aspect of doing business. Being good tax revenue earners these dealer boards skip planning review scrutiny without any REAL investigation into environmentaol impact, traffic congestion semi industrialized sprawl, particularly in urban areas. I can state without reservation that the US is probably the worst for this, with dealer boards and planning authorites working in concert blinded by earnings & tax coffer revenues!

Only recently has the owner of the Tesla Car rebuked this cozy relationship--But not without a fight! Numerous dealer boards around the country are about to be a bunch of scrappers against this trend because its the thin edge of the wedge/axe. I state axe because in my opinion this will all end with a different business model which we have been accustomed and are most familar with!

You see electric and hybrid cars/vehicles are just around the corner and they are much, much more reliable than the vehicles of the last century where we came from!
Already due to his amalgam of two technologies factory scanners are in heavy use to keep it all running due to layered systems but we will reach a point where you won't fix a car; it will be recyceable and instantly disposable, like a cell phone. Besides society especially in cities are moving to hourly rentals not to mertion an expl;osion in public transport! (like light rail)
So all these dealers will start to wither on the vine like IBM, Pan Am, Blockbuster, Sears, Radio Shack etc--make me think of IBM:- (Iddie Biddy Minds! )

I won't miss 'em but I doubt I will see it in my life time but its coming!
And for the dealers God is coming as they say in the Arab world!
Dennis

vitola231
02-11-2014, 03:07 PM
They could have the codes appear right in that screen in middle of console, Dennis is right though, it is by design and often regional. I know when it comes to EU boilers the repair manuals and coding are dumbed down over here and I often find true info in UK. But the mechanics are dumbed down also, they look for the code on the boiler to tell them what to replace. one I can think of that really shows how big german companies operate and how mechanics often aren't mechanics is, a certain boiler would put out an F5 fault, in manual it says F5 is faulty air switch and must be replaced, this air switch confirms flow through boiler exchanger. Now, the switch is saying there is no airflow, the book says the computer code means the air switch is faulty. a mechanic would, knowing the inducer fan is running, check for airflow at flue outlet or test port. In short, there is a flapper after induce fan that can stick closed and block off fan, I hate to say this but a tap with a hammer at flange vibrates flapper loose and heat is on. Funny part, many many air switches are sold. even funnier, ran into technical service rep and he asked if I ever had sticky flapper problem and I said many many, he was shocked because he was unaware to that point. Now the co he works for at the same time is dealing with this on a very large scale globally, but keeps all offices in the dark.

Or testing, we know Dennis mentions excessive exhaust gas back pressures due to filtration systems, we know this exhaust pressure pushes up on EGR valve. In fact ,often when van is misfiring I can remove valve and it rotates freely but put the slightest force against the underside of valve (exhaust gas pressure maybe) and it sticks, obviously. So, when they do the EGR valve plausibility testing, hooking up battery charger etc waiting for a computer to tell them if anything is wrong, is the van running? Is it mimicking the conditions when everyone experiences this sometimes violent misfire? Or is the engine off and valve moving freely:hmmm: Now, we know that they know under what conditions this happens. I can say this, I have had EGR valve pass there tests, misfired all the way home and removed EGR valve and once even found it hadn't sprung closed during shutdown and was half open:rolleyes:

Anyhow, myself being mechanically inclined I think.

1: do we need stronger valve motor and stronger spring? or
2: is there a problem with this particular van and excessive exhaust back pressure?
3: wait, if we have excessive exhaust pressures with this particular van, doesn't that mean that we would have more exhaust gasses flowing to intake than we designed for?:thinking:
4: maybe there is another issue here somewhere, what should our exhaust pressures be, not delta P across filters but actual pressure.
5: why do the cases of these failures increase during summer? Air density? heat?
6: why is this van producing so much soot?
7: why does the exact same valve work in most vans but give trouble in this van? is it really the valve or something else?
8: what voltage are we supplying to actual valve, better test that also.

A pen and paper with question written can diagnose very complex problems, the mechanical mind can out troubleshoot any computer as of yet, the computer can only follow what it is programmed to look for, it is a great tool but absolutely should not determine wether a vehicle is without faults.

edgefinder
02-11-2014, 04:40 PM
[QUOTE=vitola231;283873]
A pen and paper with question written can diagnose very complex problems,
QUOTE]

MB built us Sprinters under adverse gooberment conditions, its up to us to finish the job.

vitola231
02-12-2014, 02:21 PM
Edgefinder, I agree but there is the spectre of complexity, complacency and secrecy. I had the codes pulled from my van and got a list as long as my arm but no date codes with those trouble codes, no mention of the order of them which seems very important to me. I was in a major accident that squished intercooler and attached hoses, one trouble code was excessive boost pressure. Was this code during the accident:idunno: and they don't seem to know. I also received a list of recommendations, swirl valves and crudded intake etc based on different codes that may have occurred during the accident. I paid for this info on my still under warranty van that was misfiring with new EGR valve and went into limp. When mechanic wrote that EGR failure wont cause limp mode I limped home, cleaned egr and away she went:hmmm:. Going to dealership is like going to the doctor or hospital up here, they refuse to give you the information you paid for:bash:

First car was 72 road runner, she had the ceramic resistor bolted to firewall. bought
msd electronic ignition, accell super coil and plug wires as thick as garden hoses and that eliminated any of the dodge hating wet problems, plus went like a bat outa hell. With this van it is so complex and just about anything you do to it is breaking some sorta law. I can't buy a Accell super EGR or anything, choices are reduced to remove it all and be against the law while paying to rewrite programming to lose warranty or remove EGR every 3,000 km and clean and remove cooler every year to clean plus we can throw really rebuild top end of engine every 50,000km. Problem for me is I am very proud of the low emissions, I remember going to Toronto in summer when I was young and my throat and nose burning from the exhaust emissions, we used to light our exhaust on fire when we had our muscle cars:smilewink: Proper components can be purchased though, injector for DPF, bigger DPF, another system VW has that injects fluid with fuel to drastically reduce regen temps to point of almost constant passive regening, etc. Thats my dilemma, redo system correctly or just yank it. :frown:

I agree the restrictions by gov plus the low price of the vans in this climate of competition puts a manufacturer between a rock and a hard place, I ran ford diesel vans and trucks in 90's and tell you when I look at these vans now I don't see how they pump them out that cheap, manufacturing is a remarkable thing.

vitola231
02-12-2014, 02:53 PM
Want to see a system, I have a soft spot for small Mitsibushi fuso trucks, $15,000 out the gate more and lots more to spend after. They sit on lot as chassis only units and you can see the DPF that's the size of a small country and very very serviceable. On my 2010 the tiny DPF is crammed behind motor, welded in place. I think maybe our vans aren't commercial vehicles, they can easily do a million km of highway driving but 20,000 km in town can literally destroy the machine. Where I live between stupid city busses and traffic lights on every block my average speed ends up being 18 km hour saying the van basically spends over half the time idling at traffic lights. If that's what is causing all these issues I can accept that but I wasn't told the van can't be used for extended in town use. If I was told that and my business changing from almost all out of town to all intown use I would have chosen a more suitable vehicle. I think if this is the case they should offer a municipal package option that can handle it. I sold my 08 to my father way up north, at -50 c the van will do lots of idling, did I sell him a giant problem? My issue is simply is I need a finger to point at the problem, van problem or usage problem? That alone will allow me to rectify issue, if its van problem I will fix, if its usage I will dissect it.

OrioN
02-12-2014, 03:21 PM
Want to see a system, I have a soft spot for small Mitsibushi fuso trucks, $15,000 out the gate more and lots more to spend after.

Hehe... reminds me of a conversation I had with my insurance broker, after a buddy of mine with a Hino cabover told me his insurance cost which was 1/3 of my Sprinter. He said, one of the reasons is that death payouts are much less than injury payouts. :shifty:

vitola231
02-12-2014, 04:05 PM
they are an awsome machine, they make these earthcruizer 4x4 campers that are amazing. Problem is, nothing is as nice to drive and as well designed as a Sprinter.

OrioN
02-12-2014, 04:11 PM
they are an awsome machine, they make these earthcruizer 4x4 campers that are amazing. Problem is, nothing is as nice to drive and as well designed as a Sprinter.

I here ya... the FG4x4 pdf is always on my desktop, second and only other choice I'd consider... I'm designing a new custom rv/box for a cab chassis... it can fit and may end up on the latter :shhh:... last minute call...

vitola231
02-12-2014, 04:45 PM
Coooooooollll!:drool: me to, love that machine! Fits in a cargo container also, people travel the world in those!

lindenengineering
02-15-2014, 10:48 AM
Alan
I have read your post:laughing:
Welcome to the 21st century and I know & understand where you are coming from being only a couple of years than you.

Basically being in the MV business since I was 9 years of age (my dad had shop in England) things like the gripes you mention were forecast in the 1970's; its just that no-one really took any notice of upcoming trends and implications.

Manufactures have been steadily been closing their intellectual property access to the programs in your car for years now, and only the trained and "knowledgeable" have been able to access it. The dealer chains are part of the equation which maintains this business personna. The same goes for basic tech info, what was once in the manual has now has to be purchased by going on line and buying E info time by the hour, day, week, month etc.

The whole business is under the grasp of the dealer chains whether it be here in the US, up where you are, or over the other side of the pond!
Essentially when you buy a car, you buy it on their terms, their conditions!
Walk into a dealer in the industrialized world, and ask to buy a new car subject to your common law rights! AND they will refuse to sell it to you!

The same is the featherbed ambience local authorities give the dealer boards in very aspect of doing business. Being good tax revenue earners these dealer boards skip planning review scrutiny without any REAL investigation into environmentaol impact, traffic congestion semi industrialized sprawl, particularly in urban areas. I can state without reservation that the US is probably the worst for this, with dealer boards and planning authorites working in concert blinded by earnings & tax coffer revenues!

Only recently has the owner of the Tesla Car rebuked this cozy relationship--But not without a fight! Numerous dealer boards around the country are about to be a bunch of scrappers against this trend because its the thin edge of the wedge/axe. I state axe because in my opinion this will all end with a different business model which we have been accustomed and are most familar with!

You see electric and hybrid cars/vehicles are just around the corner and they are much, much more reliable than the vehicles of the last century where we came from!
Already due to his amalgam of two technologies factory scanners are in heavy use to keep it all running due to layered systems but we will reach a point where you won't fix a car; it will be recyceable and instantly disposable, like a cell phone. Besides society especially in cities are moving to hourly rentals not to mertion an expl;osion in public transport! (like light rail)
So all these dealers will start to wither on the vine like IBM, Pan Am, Blockbuster, Sears, Radio Shack etc--make me think of IBM:- (Iddie Biddy Minds! )

I won't miss 'em but I doubt I will see it in my life time but its coming!
And for the dealers God is coming as they say in the Arab world!
Dennis

OK
With some money spent ($2000) I shelled out for the Autologic update and was able to download the very latest Sprinter software & diagnostic info.
Something Snappy and Maxidas can't see!

I have two specimens in the shop this was one that had a mobile MB tech previously scan the 2011 rig, and pronounce it needed a new DEF sensor, estimate $1200 to fix. Owners freaked out went looking for alternatives!

Case #1
OK hooked up Autologic observing CEL.--First impression after interrogation 42 stored faults--cleared the codes (lots of historical stuff stored) but I noted some on DEF sensors and swirl valves sticking, EGR monetarily sticking, unit can't regen--- too sooted up.

OK I thought let's back to basics scan for threshold system voltage--- good at 13.9 volts.
Now lets look at Ad Blue---Oooh now fewer than five distinct areas to play with --remember the Autologic is bi-directional!

I looked at Ad Blue heating element (there obviously to stop freezing in cold weather me thinks ) and then looked at Adblue tank sensor system, locked out--Hmm! Interesting!

Now three system sensors to detect Adblue! I had two showing "wet" one showing "dry"!
Then looked at adblue tank sensor scanning "calibrate sensors"! So before asking it to calibrate , I fill it up--brimmed with 2 gallons then calibrate ---bingo all sensors showing "wet"!
OK now check the pump--make it work--and yes it will develop the pressure indicated by the scan guide. Now check reverse pump pump feed--yes working with the audible thud of solenoids. System would purge!

Simulate system operation with the scanner --confirm NOW working!

Now at this stage I wanted to do some experimentation --notably will the system self de-soot if the AdBlue system is working correctly in spite of fault "Won't regenerate too sooted up" !
So with a full tank of fuel and two bottles of BG244 bunged in the tank I sent it out into service for 24 hours ! This one is a reefer unit unit delivering perishable pet food!
I scooted it up the street came back with two stored codes EGR valve momentarily sticking and system too sooted up--BUT no limp mode--Hmm encouraging!

Fast forward 30 hours and a re-scan--stored codes are still there not surprising!--cleared them out. CEL went out----then went for another scoot up the street, no fault codes!!:thumbup:
OK, let it out into service again for two days! Soot content had dropped from 17 grams to just over 8 --system was self purging. Rescan --only momentary sticking of EGR valve. Cleared codes vehicle was driving fine--driver happy.
Got the van back--no stored fault codes!
Owner directive ;- Please fully service the van (40K interval) lets put it in the street for long term evaluation. Basically will it work without faulting out over an extended period!

So what did I concluded so far. Immediate observation-- Any possible measurable Adblue fault might cause with system to lock out and the system won't regen (de-soot) and the operator wouldn't know that exists until a CEL comes on and the unit locks out fully--limp mode!

Also from alternator/supply cable voltage drops the system will shut down. Owner driver might not detect that either!
The Adblue fluid level MUST be kept at optimum levels because it could fault out even though there is fluid in the system, and before warning level light comes on--or you neglect to promptly refill it!
More on this, I tackle problem child #2
Dennis

Old Crows
02-15-2014, 02:12 PM
Also from alternator/supply cable voltage drops the system will shut down. Owner driver might not detect that either!

The Adblue fluid level MUST be kept at optimum levels because it could fault out even though there is fluid in the system, and before warning level light comes on--or you neglect to promptly refill it!


Dennis

Dennis, Thank You! :bow:

Putting your observation into Crow-speak......

Before doing any testing... Make sure you have 13+ V electrical service. If not, check the status of the dreaded Y cable. If good, check the charging system. ... Low voltage leads to false positive code sets...

Keep the DEF fluid tank filled as much as reasonably possible. Fill it right away if the first DEF light comes on...... Chronically dry DEF sensors lead to code sets and DEF system lock out > LMH.

:popcorn:

Old Crows
02-16-2014, 07:44 PM
Dennis, Thank You! :bow:

Putting your observation into Crow-speak......

Before doing any testing... Make sure you have 13+ V electrical service. If not, check the status of the dreaded Y cable. If good, check the charging system. ... Low voltage leads to false positive code sets...

Keep the DEF fluid tank filled as much as reasonably possible. Fill it right away if the first DEF light comes on...... Chronically dry DEF sensors lead to code sets and DEF system lock out > LMH.

:popcorn:

Dennis? Comment?:popcorn::popcorn:

lindenengineering
02-16-2014, 08:40 PM
Dennis? Comment?:popcorn::popcorn:

Yes well any low voltage in the vehicle's operating system is going to corrupt signals and cause malfunction of control modules.
In most of cases we see vehicles in the shop with what look like huge problems but really boil down to simple wiring and voltage issues.

If you want to successfully trace a fault you must in most cases ensure good constant supply voltages to a component and grounds. So often these vital areas are overlooked and the expensive parts are replaced with little overall improvement in the operation of a system.

OK I understand at the dealer they just shotgun the job by replacing every component associated with a fault, my policy to actually trace the fault and fix it.
Here's an example--BMW X5 shuts down--transmission fault! Traced to ABS signal issue, ultimately traced to a small short in a wire cluster at the ABS brick.
OK the bill was $3500 to find it-- BUT the dealer simply replaces the whole vehicle wiring harness and control units--$8500!! Crikey
Whatta waste
Dennis