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sprinter8888
10-09-2013, 09:14 AM
I used to get low power problem intermittently very often year ago.
[suddenly speed limit is 40mph, more often on hill]
And after changing some part and hose, it happened just once a few months.
Because I was satisfied having the problem just once a few months, I stop to fix it.
It was not a big problem because turning off engine could fix the problem.
I thought some hose may have tiny hole, but I don't want to spend more money to find that.

However, nowadays I get more often low power problem.
So, I went to MB dealer to check.
And they told me that
..found intake air tube seal cut and torn and caused turbo damage
..Recommend replace turbo and replace seals.($4455)

It is too much money for me, and I met many bad dealers who try to rip me off, so I want to know if I have to replace the turbo.

The only code that I got(STORED, not current) is 2359-001 from MB dealer scanner.
And there is no light on dash.
I attached the diagnosis results from the dealer.

Can leaking tube make the turbo damage?
Is there a way for me to check if the turbo is really damaged?
I saw OEM turbos in ebay, Is it easy to do myself?

I'll look forward to hear from you. Thank you.

2007 sprinter cab and chassis 3500.
110925 miles

Eric Experience
10-09-2013, 10:23 AM
8888

if you motor runs OK between faults then your turbo is fine. Just get a new input hose and seal, end of story. Dust getting into a turbo will damage the blades as well as damage the cylinder walls. As long as the damage is uniform around the blades it will not be too far out of balance. Eric

riskydnb
10-09-2013, 11:26 AM
Are you talking about the air intake hose that runs from the air filter box to the front of the turbo failing? I have noticed that orange gasket that fits abound the turbo failing quite often recently. That orange gasket is quite thick and could possibly damage the turbo if sucked through the turbines.

sailquik
10-09-2013, 02:18 PM
sprinter888,
Suggest you purchase the large orange O'ring, and get a new intake hose.
Install them, or have them installed, and then see how your Sprinter runs.
Just a cut o'ring has caused precisely your symptoms for several others
with early NCV3 Sprinters. and replacing the O'ring and hose has restored
them to original factory MAP/boost levels.
If you replace the o'ring and hose, and you continue to lose power, then
consider a rebuilt turbocharger.
I think I may have suggested a Scan Gauge II (or similar) to you before.
The SGII would have shown you that you were not getting full boost long
before the current episode.
Even a small leak (such as the cut o'ring) will lower your overall boost level.
When it gets outside the engine management systems programmed tolerances,
then you get LHM (reduced power/less gears/etc.)
Since you have a box van body, you are most likely running on the heavy side,
and knowing when to downshift due to greater than normal % engine LOD would
be extremely good information to have.
Hope this helps.
Roger

Aqua Puttana
10-09-2013, 02:31 PM
8888

if you motor runs OK between faults then your turbo is fine. Just get a new input hose and seal, end of story. Dust getting into a turbo will damage the blades as well as damage the cylinder walls. As long as the damage is uniform around the blades it will not be too far out of balance. Eric
That would be my approach. On the T1N it is fairly simple to inspect the turbine blades once the airbox to turbo hose is removed. I suspect that the NCV3 OM642 engine would be similar in that respect.

The blades may show enough dirty air abrasion wear to cause a dealership to recommend turbo replacement. As a practical matter I'd think that it would take quite a bit of dirt and miles of wear to reduce the turbo blades efficiency enough to demand replacement. I have no experience to draw upon for that though.

vic

lindenengineering
10-09-2013, 03:14 PM
Just to add to Vic's post.
The variable vane section is controlled by that outside level you see attached to the controller.
Inside it is attached by a pin to a rotary disc which has a series of fingers which in turn operate a series of vanes much like a water mill /paddle steamer paddle set. These are hidden within the rear snail housing.
Running in very close proximately to the housing they are subject to dirt and debris which can seize it all up.
As an example I have just overhauled a 2005 TIN engine which had melted pistons and the molten metal blew out of the engine only to "weld" the variable vane section shut!

Consequently there was NO vane movement--The controller was prevented from reacting to electrical pulses from the PCM.

You can obviously remove the rear snail housing from the core to observe all the "Gubbings" inside but remember the housing can be a chore to remove and any radial movement will sheer the fine dowel pin and the internal fine delicate components within the vane control operational part.

Its one of the reasons why I recommend BG244 fuel additive to keep the exhaust clean and the soot carry over to a minimum. Unless you are the type that likes to win the traffic lights grand prix and drive it like you stole it!:thumbup:


Dennis

riskydnb
10-09-2013, 03:33 PM
By the way they dont just sell the orange gasket, you have to buy the whole hose which costs around $160.

sprinter8888
10-09-2013, 11:41 PM
Now i'm at the dealer shop waiting jobs done.
I checked the o ring wAs cut, and the blade looks little sharp.
I attached the picture.

They charged $380 to change the ring and inspection.

By the way,the boost pressure positioner value was 81% in the test result that i attached first posting.

Do they test directly to the turbo, or through the ring and hose?
Is the value supposed to be near 100%?
If the value was got directly from turbo, and
If the value have to be near 100%, then i have to replace turbo near future, right?
I can see many values in the results.
Can u give me some info for that?
My turbo looks ok based the results?

Thank u.

sailquik
10-10-2013, 12:09 AM
sprinter888,
The nicks and shiny dents in the leading edge of your turbo impeller blades are definitely damaged from something foreign trying to
get through the turbo when it's spinning super fast.
So, down the road, you may need a rebuilt turbocharger.
You won't get one from a Mercedes Dealer (that I know about).
The dealers change out the complete turbocharger assembly with the turbo actuator.
Their claim is that the turbo and the actuator are tested together at the factory, and changing one, without changing the other
can result in a mismatch.
Not sure about the boost test @ 81%.
In the previous boost test, the boost was actually higher than the standard, so I expect your turbocharger is giving
your engine pretty much all it needs, but for how long, with that much erosion of the blade leading edges, no one can
say for sure.
Maybe drive it, keep a careful eye on the MAP/Boost and see if your performance is restored.
Hope this helps,
Roger

manwithgun
10-10-2013, 03:57 AM
This guy is in Fontana,CA (an hour SE of LA) and swaps rebuilt turbos for your core. I can't vouch for the work though...

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/4010110320.html

sprinter8888
10-10-2013, 06:02 AM
I will use current turbo for a while.
However I'll keep in mind that I need to replace turbo in some point.

I have some questions.
1. Can the damaged turbo cause other damage in other part, like a engine?
2. Can I replace just blade?

For future work, I searched on ebay, and I find products like below. Price vary from $399 to $1599.
3.Is there a lot of performance difference between $399 and $1599?
4.And I found a interesting thing(see below #6). Is that a blade that I can replace for damaged blade?

1. $399 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-2004-2007-SPRINTER-VAN-TURBO-TURBOCHARGER-/271127266786?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item3f2071c5e2&vxp=mtr
2. $1599 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dodge-Freightliner-Sprinter-Turbocharger-Turbo-/190925634982?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item2c740dfda6&vxp=mtr
3. $471 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-Freightliner-Dodge-Sprinter-Turbocharger-A-6420907080-6420901080-/130718316296?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item1e6f6b3708&vxp=mtr
4. $889 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/REMANUFACTURED-GENUINE-OEM-TURBOCHARGER-DODGE-JEEP-MERCEDES-FREIGHTLINER-VAN-/290979979372?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item43bfc2206c&vxp=mtr
5. $1549 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-Freightliner-Dodge-Sprinter-Turbocharger-Turbo-/180589413516?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item2a0bf7c48c&vxp=mtr
6. $12 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Single-Air-Intake-Gas-Fuel-Saver-Turbine-Turbo-charger-Kits-Engine-Enhancer-Fan-/221284590735?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338596e48f&vxp=mtr


Thank you very much.

Eric Experience
10-10-2013, 11:29 AM
8888
The dust that marked the blades will have passed through the motor and may have done some minor damage so there is nothing to be gained by changing anything now. You can change the blade yourself but you can not balance if yourself. The turbo will destroy itself if it is not balanced, that is why repairing a turbo is costly, the cost of balancing is greater than the parts. The dealers do not have the skill to balance a turbo that is why they just replace them.So just drive it and you should be OK. Eric.

sprinter8888
10-10-2013, 03:15 PM
By the way, how severe is the damage that my turbo blade got?
If I change just the o-ring, will it stop any more damage to turbo and other parts?

How can I know the time when I need to replace or rebuild turbo?
My sprinter will stop on freeway, or I will get lack of power than normal?

Thank you.

Eric Experience
10-11-2013, 10:38 AM
8888.
The damage as far as I can see is minor. It will not fail due to that amount of damage. As long as the intake hose is in tact there will be no further damage. Eric.

sprinter8888
10-11-2013, 01:38 PM
Thank u very mich eric.

Aqua Puttana
10-12-2013, 12:14 PM
By the way they dont just sell the orange gasket, you have to buy the whole hose which costs around $160.
I don't believe that is true. I stumbled upon this from a JDCaples thread while doing some other research.

Well, I went and got my part this morning from Christopher Trucks(Freightliner) and it was the right part. It cost me $8.32 total.........that sure beats Dodgetrying to sell me the hole hose for $120.00

Well, here is the part# for others that might run into this: PART#017-997-04-45

More info is here.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17359

Researching the NCV3 Database section reminds me how much JDCaples has contributed. Please come back Jon. You are missed. vic

manwithgun
10-12-2013, 12:39 PM
By the way they dont just sell the orange gasket, you have to buy the whole hose which costs around $160.

Is this the elusive gasket?

http://europarts-sd.com/item.asp?PID=1952&cID=&scID=

riskydnb
10-12-2013, 12:41 PM
I will use current turbo for a while.
However I'll keep in mind that I need to replace turbo in some point.

I have some questions.
1. Can the damaged turbo cause other damage in other part, like a engine?
2. Can I replace just blade?

For future work, I searched on ebay, and I find products like below. Price vary from $399 to $1599.
3.Is there a lot of performance difference between $399 and $1599?
4.And I found a interesting thing(see below #6). Is that a blade that I can replace for damaged blade?

1. $399 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-2004-2007-SPRINTER-VAN-TURBO-TURBOCHARGER-/271127266786?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item3f2071c5e2&vxp=mtr
2. $1599 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dodge-Freightliner-Sprinter-Turbocharger-Turbo-/190925634982?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item2c740dfda6&vxp=mtr
3. $471 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-Freightliner-Dodge-Sprinter-Turbocharger-A-6420907080-6420901080-/130718316296?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item1e6f6b3708&vxp=mtr
4. $889 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/REMANUFACTURED-GENUINE-OEM-TURBOCHARGER-DODGE-JEEP-MERCEDES-FREIGHTLINER-VAN-/290979979372?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item43bfc2206c&vxp=mtr
5. $1549 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-Freightliner-Dodge-Sprinter-Turbocharger-Turbo-/180589413516?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ASprinter +3500%7CSubmodel%3ABase%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item2a0bf7c48c&vxp=mtr
6. $12 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Single-Air-Intake-Gas-Fuel-Saver-Turbine-Turbo-charger-Kits-Engine-Enhancer-Fan-/221284590735?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338596e48f&vxp=mtr


Thank you very much.

All the turbos you have listed are not for your year sprinter. Look at the difference in the turbos between the ones you have listed and the correct one you need which is here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-NEW-OEM-DODGE-MERCEDES-SPRINTER-TURBOCHARGER-/300535454998?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f94f1d16&vxp=mtr
I have the one you need for sale cheaper than anyone else on ebay. Let me know when you are going to need one. -Randy 760-622-0148.

riskydnb
10-12-2013, 12:48 PM
Is this the elusive gasket?

http://europarts-sd.com/item.asp?PID=1952&cID=&scID=

Ya looks like it. Thanks for the lead. Ive bought 2 of those expensive hoses just to fix the gasket all ready...lol

riskydnb
10-12-2013, 12:50 PM
By the way, how severe is the damage that my turbo blade got?
If I change just the o-ring, will it stop any more damage to turbo and other parts?

How can I know the time when I need to replace or rebuild turbo?
My sprinter will stop on freeway, or I will get lack of power than normal?

Thank you.

If turbo starts to not function properly do to previous damage most likely it will start to make a squealing noise.

sprinter8888
10-12-2013, 07:05 PM
Thank you riskydnb.
I believe those turbos that I listed are compatible with my 2007 sprinter cab and chassis 3500 diesel.
I already checked the compatibility with all of the turbos using the function ebay have.
Anyhow, I'll contact you when I need new turbo.
By the way, Can you let me know which brand of turbo you have? GARRETT, XS Power, made in china, used, or remanufactured?

riskydnb
10-12-2013, 07:42 PM
My turbo is Garrett which is the OEM manufacturer out of Germany, it is brand new and I dont charge a core fee, which the other items on ebay do. I understand you used the compatibility feature on ebay but Im 100% positive those are the wrong ones. The sellers on ebay made mistakes on their listings. Ill prove it to you simply by showing you the compatibility on two of the items you listed: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-2004-2007-SPRINTER-VAN-TURBO-TURBOCHARGER-/271127266786?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007|Make%3ADodge|Model%3ASprinter+350 0|Submodel%3ABase|Engine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item3f2071c5e2&vxp=mtr

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-Freightliner-Dodge-Sprinter-Turbocharger-Turbo-/180589413516?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007|Make%3ADodge|Model%3ASprinter+350 0|Submodel%3ABase|Engine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item2a0bf7c48c&vxp=mtr

Both items say theyre compatible for years 2005-2007...How is that possible when they are 2 completely different engines between 2006 and 2007. Im assuming you have the 3.0 6 cylinder engine? You can even tell by looking at the pictures they are different turbos. The part numbers dont even match.

Also this one doesnt have the actuator included: http://www.ebay.com/itm/REMANUFACTURED-GENUINE-OEM-TURBOCHARGER-DODGE-JEEP-MERCEDES-FREIGHTLINER-VAN-/290979979372?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2007|Make%3ADodge|Model%3ASprinter+350 0|Submodel%3ABase|Engine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.0L&hash=item43bfc2206c&vxp=mtr

sprinter8888
10-13-2013, 01:16 AM
Thanks, I'll keep in mind.

sprinter8888
08-29-2014, 05:44 PM
For future reference for members..

Finally my turbo was broken.
I should change the turbo at that time.


This is the post.
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34928

Aqua Puttana
08-29-2014, 08:28 PM
Thanks for the update. :thumbup:

...

Finally my turbo was broken.
I should [have] change the turbo at that time.

...
Maybe...

Was the engine operating reliably?

This thread ended October 2013. The thread that you reference is today almost September 2014. The turbo lasted 10 months and XXXX? miles. That's a bit of time. It's not like it only lasted a few weeks. Many things could have happened in that time which could make turbo replacement a minor issue.

Good luck. vic