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segler
10-02-2013, 04:54 PM
Can't find much about this with search.

My 2003 T1N runs fine, but has developed a noisier idle than it used to have. Slow cruise no problem. Acceleration no problem. Deceleration no problem.

However, when I come to a stop and it drops down to idle, it is definitely noisier.

My first thought was exhaust, but everything there seems to be fine.

I am now wondering about the various bearings in the AC compressor, alternator, water pump, power steering, and idlers. My T1N has everything on the serpentine belt except the AC compressor, which runs off a separate V-belt with a wrench-adjusted tension-idler at the bottom of the engine. By the way, this V-belt does not show up in any T1N service manuals.

Thoughts? Thanks.

SoCalSprinter
10-02-2013, 05:26 PM
I have seen postings on this forum of failing Harmonic Balancers making excessive noise at low RPMs before falling apart, and causing extensive damages.

Just my 2


2004 NAFTA T1N 140"
10-Passenger Wagon w/ rear A/C unit.
Los Angeles, CA

beachbum57
10-02-2013, 08:07 PM
Removing the serpentine belt and checking the pulleys for smooth operation might help you eliminate some trouble spots. My alternator pulley was failing (I could hear a bad bearing noise) but was so intermittent it was hard to tell where it was coming from. Fortunately, I saw the belt jump around on the pulley after starting it one time, so I was able to isolate the problem and get the alternator replaced before it broke completely.

There are many threads about this in the search bar that can help you find it and fix it. Also, if you post a video with sound, maybe someone here can direct you on what it might be.

Good luck! I'm sure others will be along that can be more helpful.

skill3
10-02-2013, 11:50 PM
Check out my thread. This might be your problem.

T1N Harmonic Balancer Failure

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28476

riskydnb
10-03-2013, 05:34 AM
Harmonic balancer failure would sound like a metal clanking sound.

segler
10-04-2013, 08:38 PM
I had it checked out. Yup, the harmonic balancer is <beginning> to come apart. Risky enough that they won't even drive the van out of the service bay. Parts ordered.

The guy doing the diag and repair is a MB-certified OM612/647 mechanic, so I hope to have good results.

Once the repair is completed, I will report here on how/whether the idle noise is improved.

segler
10-15-2013, 08:31 PM
OK, the repair is completed. Yes, it was the dual-belt harmonic balancer that aftermarket RV converters install for rear AC using a second compressor.

The harmonic balancer crank pulley was starting to come apart. There is a big heavy ring that is bonded to the central wheel by a rubber damper layer. The rubber damper layer can start to crack and delaminate. This can be a major problem if the ring comes completely loose while running. Everything from a few hundred $ for cover and radiator damage all the way to a new engine if the crank is damaged. Yowsers!! Gotta get that checked!! So I did. Good thing. The technician did not even recognize the part number stamped on the pulley. He showed me the separated outer ring. In his hand. Center wheel over on the bench.

I had done some research and found out that this is more of a problem with aftermarket pulleys installed with RV rear-AC kits. Mine has a rear AC with a second compressor driven by a V-belt. All other accessories, including the primary AC compressor, are driven off the primary serpentine belt.

So, if you have rear AC you might have a crank pulley that drives BOTH a serpentine belt AND a V-belt. If you do not have rear AC, you probably have a pulley that drives ONLY a serpentine belt. Those are two different pulley part numbers. You can get both pulleys as Mercedes OEM, or you can get them aftermarket. Owners have had better luck with Mercedes OEM pulleys.

It is easy to crawl under the front of the engine and look up to see your crank pulley.

I caught mine early enough that all they needed to do is replace it with a OEM Mercedes pulley that drives both belts. No damage to anything. It took them a few days to locate one. It now runs quiet and smooth at idle like it is supposed to. Dodged a bullet (pun intended).

Larson Dodge in Puyallup WA did the work. Yes, it is an expensive dealer, but they did good work.

I gotta say, probably not a bad idea to take yours in for an inspection.

There are a number of other threads in these fora concerning these harmonic balancer crank pulleys. So, if your engine starts to sound growley at idle, be suspicious of the pulley.

SullyVan
10-16-2013, 12:08 AM
How about a little bit of a chatter sound at idle? A random rattle, almost like the sound of a diesel engine idling, but in addition to the normal idle sound?

segler
10-17-2013, 06:16 PM
My idle noise was consistent, not random, and it was more of a low growl than a chatter.

I hope others will chime in with suggestions. Probably worth an inspection in any case.

MikeHowe
10-17-2013, 08:47 PM
Mine recently made a growl when idling which made me suspect the harmonic balancer, but it also made a chirp at start up and switch off - the culprit in this instance was actually the alternator pulley. This all happened a month after the engine was making a squeaking noise at idle, which turned out to be the belt tensioner. So I guess the moral of the story is, unless the engine is only making the smooth quiet sound it should do whilst idling, get all those front end pulleys checked out because after all, prevention is often much better, and cheaper, than cure. Mike

BlackHawk
02-24-2014, 11:18 PM
How about a little bit of a chatter sound at idle? A random rattle, almost like the sound of a diesel engine idling, but in addition to the normal idle sound?

Did you ever figure out this noise? Sounds like the noise mine makes as well.

halexh
02-25-2014, 01:04 AM
Did you ever figure out this noise? Sounds like the noise mine makes as well.

+1

Almost disappears when in N and sometimes it's not that noticable in P/D/R.

I sent a PM to "POGUE" regarding this thread he started.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29981

Quote:
Originally Posted by halexh
Hello
I just noticed your thread about the rattle. I have the same exact situation. Light rattle at idle gets worse in R and D and is gone when RPM are over 850. From inside it sounds like its coming from the Front Drivers side of the dash. Just wanted to follow up and see if anything you have done took care of it.

Reply From POGUE
sorry just seen this today.the problem got resolved it was some bolts and a socket that got trapped in a few areas of the engine. the last owner must have left them. hope this helps

It might be better to start another thread so we are not hijacking this one.

AdventureVan
08-27-2016, 02:54 PM
Ok I'm geting used to my 2006 dodge sprinter 2.7l 5cyl. That engine noise on very first post in question. I got a question.
Is the serpentine belt the same for all versions of 2003-2006 sprinter turbo diesel. ? I think I need to get pulleys checked.
Because I notice when climbing an upgrade and AC is on, the heat gauge goes up...any thought on that Because the noise started when I used AC while in CA, NV, AZ driving up upgrades and heat...I don't want to further damage anything else.

glasseye
08-27-2016, 09:26 PM
I notice when climbing an upgrade and AC is on, the heat gauge goes up.

Normal. AC is a significant parasitic load.

I live in British Columbia, where climbing mountain passes is an every day occurrence. I don't use AC on the uphill sections because it's easier on the entire system.

Plus it feels SO good to turn it back on when running downhill. :rad:

R!ley
06-30-2017, 09:26 PM
Hey there,

Can someone point to where I can buy Harmonic Balancer for my 2006 passenger van, it appears to be dual pully to drive the roof top air and the front ac. Having hard time locating this part.

Thank you very much!

autostaretx
06-30-2017, 11:25 PM
There appears to be only one balancer (damper, crankshaft) in the parts list for the OM647 engine:
Dodge 05103972AB ; MB A 647 030 01 03

... the same catalog does list (without picture) the 2nd belt and (with picture) the auxiliary AC compressor.

--dick (digging deeper...)
Well, "deeper" meant going into EPC with a VIN that had a roof top AC... and the above number is the one that it provides. The drawing shows another (what looks like a) balancer (now they're calling both "shock absorbers"), but refuses to cough up the part number. I'll try a non-2nd-belt VIN and see what happens.
Nothing different.
However the service manual makes one mention of there being an "optional" damper with the 2nd pulley.
Bottom of first column on page 9-39 of 2006 service manual). That's the only mention i'm seeing anywhere about it. Option codes which would include it have both HH9 and H08 installed.

R!ley
07-01-2017, 12:35 PM
I was quoted a cost of $629 from a Dodge dealer. I was hoping to find an after market one for less money.

R!ley
07-01-2017, 12:45 PM
There appears to be only one balancer (damper, crankshaft) in the parts list for the OM647 engine:
Dodge 05103972AB ; MB A 647 030 01 03

... the same catalog does list (without picture) the 2nd belt and (with picture) the auxiliary AC compressor.

--dick (digging deeper...)
Well, "deeper" meant going into EPC with a VIN that had a roof top AC... and the above number is the one that it provides. The drawing shows another (what looks like a) balancer (now they're calling both "shock absorbers"), but refuses to cough up the part number. I'll try a non-2nd-belt VIN and see what happens.
Nothing different.
However the service manual makes one mention of there being an "optional" damper with the 2nd pulley.
Bottom of first column on page 9-39 of 2006 service manual). That's the only mention i'm seeing anywhere about it. Option codes which would include it have both HH9 and H08 installed.

Ok, got it. That part number is for the single pulley. MB doesn't carry the dual pulley. Really appreciate your time and diligence. Thanks again.

R!ley
07-01-2017, 01:55 PM
Here's the part number for dual pulley: 5103998AB
Crankshaft Pulley/Vibration Damper-DUAL A/C 2002-2006
AKA: Harmonic Balancer

Aqua Puttana
07-01-2017, 02:47 PM
MB should supply it too.

You were mostly correct - just a few extra numbers. The correct Mercedes Benz part number is A 612 030 10 03.

The Dodge part number is 5103998AB. It can be had from Berry Dodge for the amazing price of $399.63, plus shipping.

Bruce

vic

Throttlejockey
07-01-2017, 02:56 PM
My noisy idle was the alternator, which had a bad bearing.

autostaretx
07-01-2017, 02:59 PM
Here's the part number for dual pulley: 5103998AB
Crankshaft Pulley/Vibration Damper-DUAL A/C 2002-2006
AKA: Harmonic Balancer
Which is MB part number A 612 030 10 03 "pulley, crankshaft"

--dick (sheesh... they certainly didn't make it easy to find...)

R!ley
07-01-2017, 03:01 PM
Good to know, thanks.
MB parts tech said its not listed and that its because I have a aftermarket roof top ac. So I didn't pursue any other MB dealer/parts dept.

R!ley
07-01-2017, 03:16 PM
Here's a link to the part numbers. http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=610299&ukey_product=4311659

autostaretx
07-01-2017, 04:19 PM
This MB dealer has it for $450.
http://www.mynewbenzparts.com/p/SHOCK-ABSORBER/52029144/6120301003.html

(saw bcc's Berry's price after posting, but that was a 2014 posting, so who knows what it is today (Berry does))

--dick

R!ley
07-01-2017, 04:51 PM
Couple of more questions. Thanks again!

Is it recommended to stick with this brand Mopar - 5103998AB part?

Or is their a generic brand now on the market?

autostaretx
07-01-2017, 05:14 PM
Mopar is just "selling through" the MB part.

I have no idea if there's a "generic" part (i'd avoid Chinese secondaries), and make that even less likely for the dual-pulley version.

--dick

R!ley
07-01-2017, 05:51 PM
What about Corteco? http://europarts-sd.com/crankshaftpulleyvibrationdamper2002-2006.asp

A vendor is looking into seeing if they make dual pulley as well as this single.

Just answered my own question. :lol:

"Please understand that this pulley damper is an OEM German part and IS NOT the Chinese made Dorman product seen on Amazon.com and on eBay. As with all things in life.....You get what you pay for. Corteco is the OEM supplier to Mercedes Benz."

R!ley
07-01-2017, 06:06 PM
This MB dealer has it for $450.
http://www.mynewbenzparts.com/p/SHOCK-ABSORBER/52029144/6120301003.html

(saw bcc's Berry's price after posting, but that was a 2014 posting, so who knows what it is today (Berry does))

--dick

Thanks!I called our MB with the part number and he said there are only 4 this country but this is great to know your linked MB has it discounted down from $585.00!

autostaretx
07-01-2017, 06:22 PM
Regarding Dorman (even though it's Chinese), their parts are usually of reasonable quality
(sez Dick, who has a Dorman resonator in his Sprinter)

--dick