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GREYGHOST
09-28-2013, 03:45 PM
Hello everybody, I have a 2003 2500 with 350,000 miles on the clock. Purchased with two leaking injector seats and a horrible case of black death , fixed it in my driveway with the support of Doktor A, and some parts purchased from him. Drive 125,000 miles on that fix. Now I am having a crank no start issue. First happened after driving 50 miles and parking it for ten minutes. Warm but nit hot day. Low on fuel, but not out of fuel? I have started it on ether spray and driven it, also letting it idle for ten minutes to rid the fuel system of air. Replaced fuel filter, no change to crank, no start problem. Has anybody had experience with similar issue? New battery from dealer about six months ago. New MAP sensor a while back, new IA Temperature Sensor at the same time. New turbo actuator valve , (pressure converter valve) also. I Was trying to fix a no boost problem, the turbo was not boosting, or the waste gate was not shutting and letting all the boost out the exhaust. My scangaugeII was showing a negative boost of -.4 !
Anyway, has anyone replaced the crankshaft position sensor or camshaft position sensor on this vehicle?

surlyoldbill
09-28-2013, 04:22 PM
read thread "hard to start when hot" for a lot of information about no-starts.

Aqua Puttana
09-28-2013, 05:16 PM
2003... starts with ether... (don't get hooked on the juice)

You should have the fuel rail pressure tested while cranking. You need a minimum of 2900 psi while cranking for reliable starts.

The OM612 does have some history of a leaking seal in the fuel rail causing start problems. Injector problems can also affect that. Information, not intended as a diagnosis.

vic

NelsonSprinter
09-30-2013, 03:25 AM
When it doesn't start are there bubbles in the clear fuel lines? one of the 7 connections at the fuel filter may have a leak http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20104&highlight=sensor
Many here have changed the crankshaft position sensor, and Camshaft PS.
write-ups under TIN write-ups and search that section for " camshaft sensor" etc

Use as little ether as possible because it can cause an ignition before the valves are completely closed and send one thru a piston.

Check all the hoses and intercooler connections for leaks, tightness as that is a common cause of no turbo boost

GREYGHOST
10-05-2013, 05:29 PM
Hi Nelson, i replied to your question, but must have fumbled on the one yard line and not hit the right button.
It does have a (one) bubble in the line just under the intake hose where it levels off. I am wondering if the primary low pressure fuel pump is good because the bubble doesnt seem to move at all. should i remove a fuel line and crank to see if the pump is pumping? I dont want air in the high pressure pump, ive had that rebuilt from Dok A maybe a year ago, and it was a real pain to replace it , not to mention the cost.
I'm about to order the cam position sensor and the crank position sensor from europarts, as they are a fraction of the price the dealer quoted me. ive got to do some wire tracing and continuity testing. i pulled out the ecu from under the dash and checked for corrosion and or bent pins. that was a little scary for me, also not sure how to find pin 35 , would it be the fifth pin on module 3 ? John

lindenengineering
10-05-2013, 08:03 PM
Greygoast
I have just fixed one like this today.
The problem made worse by the first snows in the Denver area yesterday.

This carpet cleaner truck had apparently been getting worse even affecting it when hot.

First and foremost the battery was below par and cold cranking was significantly down.
For a diesel to fire well it needs about 900r/m cranking speed to set it on fire.

Again on this unit the glow plug system was inoperative we had to install a set of glows and a module.

With the engine running we could see air bubbles, lots of them which was caused by the check valve & connection on top of the fuel filter. This is a frequently overlooked part and a bit culprit of starting faults. Cheap at about $28 plus some clips it can often resolve and issue.
A static air pocket should not be a problem as long as it is not enlarged by additional air ingress into the system.

Now for us the real biggey was a small fuel leak at the fuel lift pump. Not a noticeable leak as a cursory over-check, but upon wiggling the connections we not only observed a claw missing at the back of the fitting but also the white sealing washers were deteriorated allowing small amounts of pressure to leak off at the HP pump.

Having replaced the hose sets from the LP pump to HP pump we spun up the engine with a scanner attached. Previously we could only generate 1630psi in the rail when cranking. With the hose sets and leaks/air bubbles corrected/eradicated the beast fired up with 4750 psi in the rail.

Don't overlook the injectors, and excessive internal leakage seen by removal of the leak off rail, nor the pressure relief valve seals on the PRV (back of the rail) .

A new PRV is about $475 from the Dodge dealer and $225 from an MB dealer.
A seal kit is about $12 but hard to get unless you have the PT# A014 997 70 45 or Dodge 051575439AA.

I got a dozen or so from MB UK , because they couldn't be found in either catalogs in the US, but I have confirmed they are out there in the US parts system if you know the numbers

To remove the PRV you will need a torx bit socket and some patience, its buried between the inlet manifold and the back of the rail.
I came to the thing this morning we had a good overnight frost, it had the glows on for about 8 maybe 10 seconds then about 3 seconds of crank and away it went!
I called it good!
Best of luck and see if you can overcheck your work and see what might be taking place on your truck
Dennis

GREYGHOST
10-05-2013, 11:29 PM
Hi Dennis, i just did the leak off test, for some reason i was under the impression that i had to start the vehicle. But after reading and rereading i realized that i actually dont need the engine to run. i tested the low pressure pump first and it pumped fuel no problem. I then went to the leak off test and got injector number four at three inches of fuel, in 10 seconds of cranking. the other injectors had no fuel in the tubes. Question, would injector number four with that much leak be the culprit here? i had the chance to buy new injectors when i repaired the black death four years ago, i wish i had purchased the new ones while still available! also, if i had a bad oring at the prv ,would there be fuel leaking out of the part at the seal or would i not notice that. I also had fuel leaking out at the hi pressure pump at one time and determined that it was not the white foam but the oring had become hard and flat from age and heat. I believe the foam is a prophylactic to keep things clean. i purchased all new fuel lines when i re did the hi pump, and i found that the insidious small leak had covered the entire bottom of the van with fuel mist and directly contributed to the demise of the water pump. the leak dripped right onto the little hole above the water pump bearing and diesel destroyed the bearing.john

lindenengineering
10-05-2013, 11:52 PM
Jon
Sounds like you have a defective injector.
These cost about $360 each retail.

I have done a quicky test by doing what I call a " rocket test ".
Yes its a bit "unorfadox" but works.
Basically get/take a good known injector, even a good known used one
Remove the pipe from say your #4 and disconnect the electrical socket.

Now invert fit the donor injector onto the fuel pipe and plug it in so that it looks like a rocket; the original injector is still in the head. Now crank it up.
If the diagnosis is correct it will run on 4 cylinders with the inverted injector injecting fuel into space.
Obviously you need to exercise some safety like eye wear and gloves;
Injection of fuel in an atomized state can penetrate your skin.
And of course no smoking!

This can be done in just a few minutes but works very time.
With a scanner connected you can see live data and any significance in pressure changes etc.
The engine often responds in a similar manner and will fire up in most cases.
Do you have a good injector, I have a loaner or two for test.
Dennis

GREYGHOST
10-06-2013, 12:50 AM
I am looking for the two injectors that were removed four years ago. needle in the haystack. Thanks for the offer, I might take you up on that. The injectors may be good, i just replaced them upon Andy's advice. Dennis, I would plug the injector into the electrical connector also, correct? thanks ,John

surlyoldbill
10-06-2013, 01:41 AM
3" on one injector and nothing on the others is pretty obvious you need to replace that injector, no other testing needed.

lindenengineering
10-06-2013, 02:03 AM
I am looking for the two injectors that were removed four years ago. needle in the haystack. Thanks for the offer, I might take you up on that. The injectors may be good, i just replaced them upon Andy's advice. Dennis, I would plug the injector into the electrical connector also, correct? thanks ,John

John
You MUST plug in all the injectors.
The PCM will immediately "see" that it is unplugged (in fact any of them) and shut down the whole injector driver section within the PCM board..

Obviously if you have engine wiring harness issues to the injectors it will do the same thing--won't start--a shut down. A scanner is useful here to look for codes pertaining to that fault(s) . (The TIN models 2002 & 2003 are prone to failure from my experience)
The engine harness is cheap to replace but a bit fiddly to install.

For info the first three injectors (1,2 & 3) are fired by the same socket at the PCM the other two are split out. You can ohm them out at the PCM since the feed +ve is a common with ground switching at the PCM.
Cheers Dennis

MikeHowe
10-06-2013, 10:21 AM
I had a crank no start problem on my 2003. First issue was air in the fuel line, so much so that fuel was not getting past the LP pump and beyond. The garage suspected the pump had failed. It hadn't, the fuel filter was the problem, specifically the water in fuel sensor. Replaced the fuel filter with one without the sensor - air in fuel lines disappeared.

The second issue was an injector leaking off too much fuel. Injector replaced, problem solved. The van now starts easily first time. This all took a long time to diagnose but the solution was disproportionately simple. I don't think you need to test that injector any further, just replace it. All the best, Mike

Aqua Puttana
10-07-2013, 12:37 AM
3" on one injector and nothing on the others is pretty obvious you need to replace that injector, no other testing needed.
:2cents:

That makes a bunch of sense to me. Everything I've read about that test is that your results show a bad injector. Why not replace that and go from there? It may cure your problem. vic

GREYGHOST
10-30-2013, 02:38 AM
Hello, was just reviewing my account and noticed that I did not post the conclusion to my thread. I did replace injector #3 and the hardest part was CLEANING the injector bore and hold down bolt hole. i began to chase the hold down bolt hole but it felt like i was removing valuable material from the head female threading. so I abandoned the thread chase , 6mm x 1 tap. i just ran a new hold down bolt into the hole, and continued to withdraw and clean with carb cleaner until everything looked spotless. so far so good. I did do the 2 times 90 degree turns after torquing to the spec of xx in lbs.I dont want to write it down here, the spec for torque, in case I am remembering the number incorrectly.The 2x 90 degree turn should not be attempted unless the blind hole is absolutely free of debris. Easily found using the search function. hopefully this info helps someone, John