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vanven
09-22-2013, 10:31 PM
My 2003 (153,000 mi) began having trouble not restarting while hot. Would crank fine but would take multiple attempts and very long cranking time to turn over. Today I started cold 4 times with no problems. I have original glow plugs and GP module. I reviewed cold starting posts and decided to do the fuel injector clear Tygon leak test. Results with about 8 seconds of cranking: Cycl 1 was 3 inches of fuel, 2 was 4 + inches, 3 was not detectable, 4 was 1/2 inch, 5 was not detectable. There is no discernible sign of black death. Ambient temperature has been 50-70 degrees F while this has been going on. Do I need to replace injectors in 1 and 2 regardless of hot starting problems? Are my hot start problems because of the injectors? Are the rebuilt injectors from Europarts-SD the right way to go. Thank you in advance. Were it not for this extraordinary forum I would have thrown in the towel on this thing years ago.

Aqua Puttana
09-22-2013, 11:10 PM
The fuel in the tubes is an indication that those injectors have problems.

Either Talkinghorse43 or Autostaretx had starting problems that were resolved by replacing one, maybe more injectors.

Unfortunately those guys seem to have stopped checking in here. I miss JD Caples, Talkinghorse43 and Autostaretx. They were very helpful here on the forum. Maybe they found another Sprinter forum and left me behind? :bash:

Anyway, it appears from your information that a couple injectors are in your future. Injectors can fail in other modes than the injector to head copper seal beginning to leak and causing black death. In fact, Black Death doesn't indicate a bad injector, it indicates a leaking seal.

Europarts is a good source. At one time Waynerodd supplied remanufactured injectors. You might check with him. vic

vanven
09-22-2013, 11:34 PM
The fuel in the tubes is an indication that those injectors have problems.

Either Talkinghorse43 or Autostaretx had starting problems that were resolved by replacing one, maybe more injectors.

Unfortunately those guys seem to have stopped checking in here. I miss JD Caples, Talkinghorse43 and Autostaretx. They were very helpful here on the forum. Maybe they found another Sprinter forum and left me behind? :bash:

Anyway, it appears from your information that a couple injectors are in your future. Injectors can fail in other modes than the injector to head copper seal beginning to leak and causing black death. In fact, Black Death doesn't indicate a bad injector, it indicates a leaking seal.

Europarts is a good source. At one time Waynerodd supplied remanufactured injectors. You might check with him. vic

Vic,

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.:thumbup: I'll call Steve/Justin at Europarts in the morning and order the two injectors. Too bad about Talkinghorse; his belt tensioner analysis earned me a free Litens tensioner. Steve (Europarts) read the Talkinghorse post and then contacted me to give me a free replacement. This forum has been so powerful.

I hit the two bad injectors with PB blaster a few hours ago. Do I remove them hot or cold? Thanks again!

surlyoldbill
09-23-2013, 01:23 AM
YES, bad injector was the source of my "no start when hot" problem.

Lots of threads on injector removal in the write-ups section. Remove while hot. PB wasn't good enough for my last one, I had to loosen the hold down bolt a few threads and run the engine a bit to allow the compression to push the injector up a bit. A LOT of side to side twisting and repeated application of Kroil penetrating oil while simultaneously prying up the injector finally got it out. The side to side action was the key.

Note on hold down bolt; don't do what I did, THOROUGHLY CLEAN ALL THE THREADS ALL THE WAY DOWN! I snapped off the new hold down bolt with 1/4" to go before it touched the pawl. You can make a thread chaser out of the old hold down bolt by cutting a couple channels in the sides with a Dremel.

MikeHowe
09-23-2013, 07:16 AM
Just to chip in I had the same starting problem on my 2003 whilst hot. All the guys here recommended the injector leak off test which revealed one faulty injector. Replaced injector and problem solved. Hope yours is the same and you get up and running again soon. Mike

vanven
09-23-2013, 10:29 PM
YES, bad injector was the source of my "no start when hot" problem.

Lots of threads on injector removal in the write-ups section. Remove while hot. PB wasn't good enough for my last one, I had to loosen the hold down bolt a few threads and run the engine a bit to allow the compression to push the injector up a bit. A LOT of side to side twisting and repeated application of Kroil penetrating oil while simultaneously prying up the injector finally got it out. The side to side action was the key.

Note on hold down bolt; don't do what I did, THOROUGHLY CLEAN ALL THE THREADS ALL THE WAY DOWN! I snapped off the new hold down bolt with 1/4" to go before it touched the pawl. You can make a thread chaser out of the old hold down bolt by cutting a couple channels in the sides with a Dremel.

I just ordered the two injectors from Europarts. Thanks for the additional instructions about removal and hold down bolts. I will try and remove tonight; I'll keep you posted.

vanven
09-23-2013, 11:59 PM
Just to chip in I had the same starting problem on my 2003 whilst hot. All the guys here recommended the injector leak off test which revealed one faulty injector. Replaced injector and problem solved. Hope yours is the same and you get up and running again soon. Mike

Thanks for the input. Your success in solving the hot starting problem with injector replacement is very reassuring. I was able to get my two leaky injectors out in less than 10 min. I'll let you know how the hot starting goes after it is done (parts and one special tool arrive in 3 days).

vanven
09-24-2013, 12:05 AM
YES, bad injector was the source of my "no start when hot" problem.

Lots of threads on injector removal in the write-ups section. Remove while hot. PB wasn't good enough for my last one, I had to loosen the hold down bolt a few threads and run the engine a bit to allow the compression to push the injector up a bit. A LOT of side to side twisting and repeated application of Kroil penetrating oil while simultaneously prying up the injector finally got it out. The side to side action was the key.

Note on hold down bolt; don't do what I did, THOROUGHLY CLEAN ALL THE THREADS ALL THE WAY DOWN! I snapped off the new hold down bolt with 1/4" to go before it touched the pawl. You can make a thread chaser out of the old hold down bolt by cutting a couple channels in the sides with a Dremel.

Side to side motion did the trick. Got both bad injectors out in less than 10 min. Thanks again.

riskydnb
09-24-2013, 07:07 AM
Last time I had this problem it was the fuel return line that runs along the tops of the fuel injectors. It had a leak in the line. Also I sell the same rebuilt injectors cheaper than anyone online. Hit me up next time for any parts @ 760-622-0148 -Randy

wooffi
11-03-2013, 12:29 AM
I finally did the injector leak off test by Type2Teach http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17149

A real easy test. Number 1 had 4 inches after just 5 seconds of cranking, number 2 a little bit under 1.5 inch. Number 3/4/5 just a drop or two.

So I ordered two rebuild Injectors, seals and hold down screws from EuroParts San Diego on Friday afternoon and they shipped 5 minutes later.

Sadly their link for removal tool is not working properly so I took the chance to just trust this thread and hope they will come out fairly easy.

Their is no sign of gunk, the area is squeaky clean, so I hope for the best.

Thanks for all the useful info on this subject.

Wolfgang

wooffi
11-07-2013, 01:08 PM
Follow up, the injectors are stuck and EuroParts does not lend out any more tools, I called them, they will take the links down.

So back to search found the got the MILLER TOOL 8941 FUEL INJECTOR REMOVER 2.7L DIESEL on eBay for about $50.00 and the Miller 8938A extraction claw for $167.00 with shipping (ouch!). Hope they work and I will sell them back on eBay once I am done.

Interesting project, I'll address my glow plug problem at the appropriate thread.

Wolfgang

Aqua Puttana
11-07-2013, 02:20 PM
Follow up, the injectors are stuck and EuroParts does not lend out any more tools, I called them, they will take the links down.

So back to search found the got the MILLER TOOL 8941 FUEL INJECTOR REMOVER 2.7L DIESEL on eBay for about $50.00 and the Miller 8938A extraction claw for $167.00 with shipping (ouch!). Hope they work and I will sell them back on eBay once I am done.

Interesting project, I'll address my glow plug problem at the appropriate thread.

Wolfgang
Not that you asked...

If the engine is still running. Drive around until the engine is hot. Loosen the hold down claw bolt to very loose and drive around close to home for a bit. Others have reported that they have released stuck injectors using that method.

vic

autostaretx
11-07-2013, 04:07 PM
Either Talkinghorse43 or Autostaretx had starting problems that were resolved by replacing one, maybe more injectors.
Just for the record, Autostaretx has not had problems with my injectors (yet).

--dick (who was on vacation throughout September)

wooffi
11-11-2013, 11:07 AM
Not that you asked...

If the engine is still running. Drive around until the engine is hot. Loosen the hold down claw bolt to very loose and drive around close to home for a bit. Others have reported that they have released stuck injectors using that method.

vic

Thanks Vic,
And also thanks for replying to me personal.


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NetDoc
11-11-2013, 11:18 AM
My Sprinter starts easy hot or cold, but this has been a great thread to help understand the overall picture. Many thanks to the link for the leakdown test.

surlyoldbill
11-11-2013, 02:56 PM
Follow up, the injectors are stuck and EuroParts does not lend out any more tools, I called them, they will take the links down.

So back to search found the got the MILLER TOOL 8941 FUEL INJECTOR REMOVER 2.7L DIESEL on eBay for about $50.00 and the Miller 8938A extraction claw for $167.00 with shipping (ouch!). Hope they work and I will sell them back on eBay once I am done.

Interesting project, I'll address my glow plug problem at the appropriate thread.

Wolfgang

You should start your own little side business and rent out the kit through this forum.

wooffi
11-12-2013, 10:41 AM
My Sprinter starts easy hot or cold, but this has been a great thread to help understand the overall picture. Many thanks to the link for the leakdown test.

The leak down test got me really going on this forum and is making me become my own mechanic again. I have a 'shade tree guy', but he is only good with standard maintenance.
Failed miserably on glow plug removal, I actually think he broke some. So I will have upcoming projects......


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NetDoc
11-12-2013, 10:51 AM
The leak down test got me really going on this forum and is making me become my own mechanic again. Good for you! I was a professional mechanic for 30 years, so it's mostly academic for me. I was certified a diesel mechanic, but that's just paper. I hardly ever touched them, so this has been fun to say the least.

Just remember: mechanics always start what they finish! :rad: :rad: :rad:

With that, I think I have a new tag line.

MillionMileSprinter
11-12-2013, 12:26 PM
The leak down test got me really going on this forum and is making me become my own mechanic again.

Yeah, that's great to hear!:thumbup:

surlyoldbill
11-12-2013, 02:42 PM
Yeah, I have to take my brother's advice with a grain of salt, because he got his diesel engineering degree in the 70's; a lot of the technology in the Sprinter engine didn't exist. He can tear apart a Cat engine and tranny, but I think I know more about the OM612 than he does, and I'm just a lowly industrial designer, musician, slacker.

Moral of the rambling semi off-topic blog: unless someone has actual experience with the OM612 and OM647, don't take their word for it.

wooffi
12-03-2013, 10:37 AM
A little follow up on the above topic.

The slide hammer and claw turned out to be useless, already sold both on eBay with a loss. But this project is getting pretty pricy, need the money.

I ended up getting a Sealy injector puller from the UK that worked perfect. I'll post a link to them later, there is also a more reasonable Chinese copy on eBay. A fraction of the miller tools and they work!!!!

After all that, through my own stupidity and inexperience, I now have to replace or jerry rig a fuel line from the low pressure pump and I busted the vacuum pump by accident, don't ask, I could kick myself.

Found a used vacuum pump on eBay thankfully.

Live and learn.

Wolf


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NetDoc
12-03-2013, 10:45 AM
Sometimes we pay for our learning with time, sometimes with money. Hopefully, you're smarter than at the beginning of the process. Now, I want to see links and pics of this puller!

wooffi
12-03-2013, 11:40 PM
Here is the promised follow up:

Here is a link to the injector puller on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XDiese l+Injector+Puller+-+Mercedes+Cdi&_nkw=Diesel+Injector+Puller+-+Mercedes+Cdi&_sacat=0&_from=R40), Sealy the more expensive. But I believe the version from China works as well.

Here is the link to the injector hold down screw repair kit (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Time-Sert-1610E2-M6-x-1-0-Extended-Metric-Thread-Repair-Kit-/271251273355?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item3f27d5f68b&vxp=mtr). No cheaper option anywhere, I searched.

Both great tools, easy to use.

Wolfgang

NelsonSprinter
04-05-2014, 12:56 AM
I had a hard starting this winter when the engine was hot. I did the leak off test in the fall with little fuel in the plastic tubes so I didn't think it was an injector.
Wrong, just did the leak off test again and #5 was 3" full. Replaced the injector in 45 minutes and starts right up thanks to an OM612 that doesn't need injector ECU programming. I was lucky, no black death and a little lubricant, and a loosened bolt and the injector popped right out of a hot engine, very happy and surprised due to the hardship many have endured. but lost a T40 bit in the engine bay somewhere.

Missouri Blue
04-05-2014, 01:01 AM
If the loose bit drop down the driver's side in the rear of the engine it is possible that it fell on top of the starter. I dropped a small bolt (one for the fuel rail solenoid) down the rear driver's side of the engine bay. I looked for 30 minutes to no avail. Finally got a mirror in a position that I could see the top of the starter and there it was... I know not pertaining to the thread, but worth a look.

Aqua Puttana
04-05-2014, 02:06 PM
Here is the promised follow up:

Here is a link to the injector puller on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XDiese l+Injector+Puller+-+Mercedes+Cdi&_nkw=Diesel+Injector+Puller+-+Mercedes+Cdi&_sacat=0&_from=R40), Sealy the more expensive. But I believe the version from China works as well.

Here is the link to the injector hold down screw repair kit (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Time-Sert-1610E2-M6-x-1-0-Extended-Metric-Thread-Repair-Kit-/271251273355?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item3f27d5f68b&vxp=mtr). No cheaper option anywhere, I searched.

Both great tools, easy to use.

Wolfgang

Some tool info from Wooffi. :thumbup:



Here's some of the text in case the links go away. It gives some Mercedes vehicle model names.

Diesel Injector Puller Set

This 3 piece Diesel Injector Puller Set comes complete with an extractor key for removing the inner part of the injector.

It is also suitable for removing injectors without the use of a slide hammer and without removing the cam cover off.

Mercedes Benz Sprinter | ML270 | E-Class | C-Class and Chrysler Grand Cherokee 2.7crd (00-).

MPN: CT3413
Price: Approx $49.75

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XDiese l+Injector+Puller+-+Mercedes+Cdi&_nkw=Diesel+Injector+Puller+-+Mercedes+Cdi&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Hold Down Bolt Repair

Mechanics Tools and Bits 1-877- 746 - 4682

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Time-Sert-1610E2-M6-x-1-0-Extended-Metric-Thread-Repair-Kit-/271251273355?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item3f27d5f68b&vxp=mtr#ht_5273wt_966

Time-Sert 1610E2 M6 x 1.0 Extended Metric Thread Repair Kit

Price:
US $107.28
Item location:
Nazareth, Pennsylvania, United States

vic

wooffi
04-06-2014, 08:24 AM
Vic,

I'm back running my sprinter daily again. Had a little issue with a fuel line above the fuel sensor popping out of the block.

Didn't want to replace the 'pain in the butt' triple line, spliced very successful a new section, that holds great.

No more 'Hot starting trouble'....,.

Wolf


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