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1dzmotard
09-21-2013, 09:59 PM
What happened? Driving from IL to OR, during the trip I stopped and filled up once getting back in the seat I turned the key to find that it would not start the battery was going dead so I pushed it in to a parking spot and hopped in the back and fell asleep till the AM. In the morning I woke up gave the key a turn and it started right up, cranked for 5 sec and ran fine. At the next fill up I let it idle for a min than shut her down. I filled the tank up hopped back in, no start. I got out popped the hood took a look at the fluids and took glance at all the components, nothing I could see was wrong so I shut the hood. 15-20 minutes later gave it a try, started right up ran that tank out filled it up this time without turning shutting it off and keep going down the road. I arrived to my destination and it wont start at all, it will crank but wont fire.

What i have done so far! First I replaced the fuel filter couldn't get it to prime so I took off the feed line, nothing came out. I am thinking fuel pump in the tank! I got under the T1N and noticed that the tank had fuel on it, not a lot some. So i say to my self thats my problem! I dropped the fuel tank, could't find any problems with the seal, pump or lines. The pump moved up and down, I could get my head around how the pump worked its plastic with a spring and a steel tube, but it had no cracks or damage that i could see. I cleaned everything good put it back together. Now I have an in line pump hooked up, it primed the filter. But wont start, I do get a sputter sometimes. I would get a sputter sometimes before I took anything apart. I took the negative battery cable off for 15 min to see if that would help, nope! I have cranked it twice till the battery almost died. I am out of Ideas right now and have looked through the form twice to see if I might of missed something, If I have could forward the link to me. Any other suggestion i am willing to try. If I cant get it fixed I will have to take it where I don't want to. I have been taken once by the dealer $1,000 went in with two problems and it left with two problems. Thanks to S.O.S in Oregon they fixed me up that time and haven't had any problems till now.

The coolant was a bit low so I topped it off, oil is good.

It has newer glow plugs and module 15,000 miles ago, Skreem ECU and keys were sent to S.O.S 15,000 miles ago, new air filter, new fuel filter, old oil it ready to be change but first needs to be running before I do that.

Thanks and looking forward to sharing my prognosis with the rest of you!

surlyoldbill
09-21-2013, 10:14 PM
Look at thread "hard to start when hot" for many possible solutions.
If it starts when the engine is cold but not when it is up to operating temp, there are a few possible reasons.
CRANKS, but won't start.

NelsonSprinter
09-21-2013, 11:01 PM
What year sprinter do you have?
a 2002-3003 fuel pump will pull fuel to the engine so I suspect you have that model if you're not getting fuel out of the tube when it's off. Fill the new filter with fuel and crank for 1 minute.
If you have a later model then your fuel pump isn't working properly.
You may have a worn fuel injector that prevents a warm start , perform the "injector leak off test" listed on this forum

1dzmotard
09-21-2013, 11:29 PM
Yeah I have the 2002 SHC 2500 158
No it wont start when cooled or hot.
Ill that a look at the injector leak off test Nelson

surlyoldbill
09-21-2013, 11:38 PM
you have clear fuel lines, you should be able to see if you have air in lines.
DON'T jump to worse case scenario, check fuel for air, do leak off test, inspect cam sensor and intake air sensor.

1dzmotard
09-22-2013, 01:36 AM
So I did the test on the injectors and there's vary little fuel in the hoses so they are good.

The clear hose on my van is not so clear anymore but I did put a flashlight on the backside of the hoses so I could see if there was any bubbles. I did uses the inline fuel pump to get all the air out of the line from the tank to the filter. Was that a :bash:?

Should I take out the cam sensor or just check the connector and wire? How could I check to see if its bad or not same with the intake sensor. would I use a jumper wire or would that be :bash: also?

Thanks guys

NelsonSprinter
09-22-2013, 01:59 AM
I'm not an expert on the leak off test, but I thought there should be 1/2 to 1" of fuel in the hoses, and a bad injector would have 2" or more, so I think there may be a fuel pump issue.

It isn't highly recommended, but when I sprayed a little starting fluid in the EGR when mine wouldn't start, it started right up because everything was moving faster. Do not use a lot of starting fluid or you will throw a valve thru your pistons from early detonation.

surlyoldbill
09-22-2013, 02:22 AM
I think that zero fuel in the tubes is great, but up to 1/2" is acceptable for 10 second crank. An inch is getting a little too much.

Cam sensor, crankshaft sensor, low fuel pressure in the rail (o-rings in the rail solenoid might be cause), rare but possible low or high pressure fuel pump failure. If you have any way of checking the fuel pressure in the rail while attempting start, that might help find the problem. We're assuming a fuel problem, is there a possibility that there is some electrical problem that is telling the ECU to not allow the engine to start? Other than the sensors mentioned?

Why am I not seeing the 5th cyl in the pic?

1dzmotard
09-22-2013, 02:25 AM
I'm not an expert on the leak off test, but I thought there should be 1/2 to 1" of fuel in the hoses, and a bad injector would have 2" or more, so I think there may be a fuel pump issue.

It isn't highly recommended, but when I sprayed a little starting fluid in the EGR when mine wouldn't start, it started right up because everything was moving faster. Do not use a lot of starting fluid or you will throw a valve thru your pistons from early detonation.

There was a bit of fuel in each tube just at the top of the where the tube is connected

1dzmotard
09-22-2013, 02:41 AM
I think that zero fuel in the tubes is great, but up to 1/2" is acceptable for 10 second crank. An inch is getting a little too much.

Cam sensor, crankshaft sensor, low fuel pressure in the rail (o-rings in the rail solenoid might be cause), rare but possible low or high pressure fuel pump failure. If you have any way of checking the fuel pressure in the rail while attempting start, that might help find the problem. We're assuming a fuel problem, is there a possibility that there is some electrical problem that is telling the ECU to not allow the engine to start? Other than the sensors mentioned?

Why am I not seeing the 5th cyl in the pic?

I don't see it either in the photo but trust me its there, i just grabbed the bag to make sure i had five and i pulled them all off. I looked to make sure there was some fuel in each one or Than I would think the same as Nelson did, no fuel is getting their at all.

I did have a problem with the injector wire grounding out on the new intake manifold after the sealership installed it. That was tricky to find got lucky! The van had broke down on My mom and left her on the side of the road crying. good thing she had her motorcycle in the back. I will untape those wires and give a good look, I bandaged them up pretty good and I looked to make sure it hadn't chewed through today.

Thanks for you help guys

1dzmotard
09-22-2013, 03:02 AM
No dice, wires are fine. When that wire would ground out it killed the van immediately. I drove the van to where its parked now and was running fine when I shut the van off. The van runs fine when it starts but she just wont start it will sputter once in a while but thats it. I will try and test the sensors tomorrow. Have any idea on where I could find out how to test the sensors?

GREYGHOST
09-22-2013, 03:49 AM
I'm having a crank no start issue myself. Today I replaced the fuel filter, with no change to the issue of the van cranking , but not starting. It will run if I start with ether. I was thinking crankshaft sensor also. I've recently replaced the air intake temp sensor, the MAP sensor on the boost intake hose, the vacuum transducer that controls the turbo vanes. I also had two shutdowns/ engine cutouts, while driving at low speeds before the no start issue. I repaired a case of black death in injectors 1 and 5, that were replaced with new injectors, About three years ago and 115,000 miles ago. Recently repaired the water pump, which I think was caused by the pex fuel lines that feed the hi pump, leaking directly onto the water pump and getting into the small hole in the casting above the bearing. Replaced all clear fuel lines, that was money well spent. Spoke with Andy Bittenbinder, he also was wondering about fuel rail pressure,suggested a leak off test. That's my next move until I decide to check/replace the crankshaft position sensor. Any suggestions?

1dzmotard
09-22-2013, 04:22 AM
How do I do a fuel leak test

MikeHowe
09-22-2013, 10:27 AM
I have had similar problems with my 2003 T1N, the solutions may help in this case. With the 02 and 03 T1N's the absolute first priority in a situation like yours is to make sure that air is not entering the fuel lines. If you're getting significant air in the lines you will have problems getting the van started until eventually it won't start at all. This is what happened to me.

Whilst there are many possible sources of air getting in (it's a particular problem for 02 and 03 sprinters because the low pressure fuel pump is not in the tank, and it therefore sucks fuel, and air, into the system), the number 1 culprit is the fuel filter, which has many points where air can get in. The commonest place is through the water in fuel sensor at the base of the filter. Rather than mess around trying to repair seals that may or may not be faulty I followed the advice of many guys on this forum and simply replaced the filter with one that doesn't have the water in fuel sensor or the drain plug. In addition to this I made sure that the correct clips were used on the pipes on top of the filter and hey presto problem solved, no more air and the van started after cranking and purging all the air through the injectors.

If you are happy that your injector leak off test was done correctly and showed no problems with the injectors, then I would change the fuel filter and then crank the engine until the air is purged and it should start.

If it doesn't, only then would I move on to the other possible causes that have been mentioned so far.

I would add that I have also had problems with injectors which caused poor starting and eventual stalling. This was happening whilst my fuel filter was allowing in air, so the 2 problems were exacerbating each other. So first priority is stop the air getting in, then be absolutely certain the injectors are ok, and then move onto other possible problems. I'd be surprised if it wasn't air or injectors in your case.

Good luck, Mike

1dzmotard
10-28-2013, 07:09 PM
I took it to the MB Dealer and for $275 they washed my dirty van, replaced head light bulb and new Cam Sensor that is on the Top of the motor witch was why my van would not start. Code came back as CAN-BUS issues. One day Fix! back on the road and running good again.