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View Full Version : Second Row Seats that install using Floor Cargo Rails??


pesmith
09-10-2013, 07:50 AM
The attached picture is from my 2013 Sprinter showing the cargo rails in the floor deck. Is there a seat manufactured that can be installed using the factory floor cargo rail system? Or maybe hardware that can be used to interface the seat to the cargo rails? I would like to install a two person bench seat with safety belts or two captain chair seats with safety belts. Any advice welcome as how to best accomplish this.

Tom9054
09-10-2013, 03:05 PM
Well, don't believe everything you read on the internet - let's start there.
It's my idea to do these:
http://www.cargoequipmentcorp.com/Series-L-Stud-Fitting-p/32502r.htm
and attach a 5/8" turnbuckle-short one:
http://unicornstainless.com/products/turnbuckles/jaw-jaw-turnbuckle/
then attach to a seat pedestal:
www. i havenoideawheretofindoneatthistime.org
to the pedestial attach 2 mini cooper seats from the local junkyard:
www.allreadypurchased.tom

The idea being, if I don't have passengers, the seats are easily removed. No holes in floor.
Will it work, I dunno.
Is it factory, oh heck no.
Most importantly - is it safe? :idunno:
Reasonably safer then the 2x12's i hooked the grandkids on to for the trip to Winnipeg.
So it's an upgrade < ya that's it!
thanks for listening
Tom

pfflyer
09-10-2013, 04:55 PM
I believe this is the same type track used for airline seats but I suspect they use different grade fasteners and attached with plates and nuts on the underside. Depending on type seating you may have to add track sections to get spacing correct. I have 1 section of two first class leather airline seats my wife would love to sell you if you are interested. They sell male threaded studs that lock into the track and you attach the seats that way. I am not sure these fittings and the track you have are DOT approved or not. There is another thread on this subject as well.

rb3232
09-10-2013, 05:52 PM
I believe this is the same type track used for airline seats but I suspect they use different grade fasteners and attached with plates and nuts on the underside. Depending on type seating you may have to add track sections to get spacing correct. I have 1 section of two first class leather airline seats my wife would love to sell you if you are interested. They sell male threaded studs that lock into the track and you attach the seats that way. I am not sure these fittings and the track you have are DOT approved or not. There is another thread on this subject as well.

The track used in airliners is similar style but a much lighter and stronger alloy.

Tom9054
09-11-2013, 01:08 AM
pe, thought I'd get a thanks out of all that?
guess I'll just have to high 5 myself! :smirk:

huntler
09-11-2013, 06:03 AM
I had this same plan all figured out last year then totaled the brand new sprinter. Just hot the replacement a month ago and I need to do the same thing. I had found seats on ebay that were made for sprinters and very reasonable. They don't appear on ebay any more. I was going to recess additional short sections of track and use the stud attachment as mentioned in the earlier post. It's doable.

pfflyer
09-11-2013, 01:58 PM
The track used in airliners is similar style but a much lighter and stronger alloy.

I know parts that goes on an airplane has extra scrutiny but sometimes same thing can be bought by the public. Delta was a customer of mine and if I wanted to supply a part that went on a plane it would cost my company almost $500k (2004 dollars)just to be certified to be a supplier. I don't make any parts just resell them. People that make the parts much more. I would be willing to bet that there is not a whole lot different between l track used by airlines and ones for public consumption. Not saying they are the same just not much difference.

CJPJ
09-11-2013, 06:16 PM
Just for anyone reading this post that might be mislead into thinking that because “it is used on a airliner” makes the product in some way superior or even adequate in a crash. I did a quick Google search and I found a example.

INTRODUCTION; Aircraft crashes will continue to occur in spite of all human efforts to prevent them. However, serious injury and death are not inevitable consequences of these crashes. It has been estimated that approximately 85 percent of all aircraft crashes are potentially survivable without serious injury for the occupants of these aircraft (1,2,3). This estimate is based upon the determination that 85 percent of all crashes met two basic criteria. First, the forces involved in the crash were within the limits of human tolerance without serious injury to abrupt acceleration (1). Second, the structure within the occupant’s immediate environment remained substantially intact, providing a livable volume throughout the crash sequence (1). In other words, contrary to popular belief, most aircraft crashes are not “smoking holes”.
Nevertheless, many deaths and serious injuries occur in crashes that were classified as “survivable” by crash investigators. This is because the protective systems within the aircraft such as cabin strength, seats, and restraint systems were inadequate to protect the occupants in a crash that would have otherwise been non injurious.This is why the definition of survivability of a crash is based solely on aircraft and impact related factors and not upon the outcome for the occupants of the crashed aircraft. A mismatch between the survivability of the crash and the outcome for the occupants suggests an inadequacy of protective systems design or utilization. One of the adages of aircraft design, “it is possible to build a brick outhouse, but you can’t make it fly” , applies to this situation. Increased crash worthiness and advanced crash protection systems increase both the cost and the weight of the final design and, therefore, potentially decrease profit margins as well as aircraft performance.

d_bertko
09-12-2013, 09:32 PM
I did see that L-track is available in at least two aluminum alloys.

The commonplace alloy seems to be 6061-T6

A higher strength version used in aircraft might be 7075-T6.

Difficult to say if without engineering data if the higher strength is needed but perhaps seatbelt restraints would justify for peace of mind.

I used the 6061 from Cargo Equipment throughout my DIY and it is well secured to hold cargo. We don't often carry passengers long distances---I'd consider the stronger alloy if I had regular passengers in back.

One could ask the wheelchair-securement guys what they use in their conversions.

Dan

pfflyer
09-12-2013, 11:03 PM
Cargo Equipment carries occupant restraint systems for wheelchairs using the L-track they sell. Wheelchair is lighter than a bench seat but maybe if someone has time to read all the tech bulletins they can find what they need.
http://www.cargoequipmentcorp.com/Sure-Lok-Technical-Information-s/315.htm
http://www.cargoequipmentcorp.com/v/vspfiles/PDFs/Catalog_Occupant_Restraint_Section.pdf
http://www.cargoequipmentcorp.com/Sure-Lok-s/87.htm

pfflyer
09-12-2013, 11:08 PM
pe, thought I'd get a thanks out of all that?
guess I'll just have to high 5 myself! :smirk:

Thanks and high five. Better late than never. That's one way not to be asked to pick up the grandkids after school any more.

rb3232
09-14-2013, 04:30 AM
I know parts that goes on an airplane has extra scrutiny but sometimes same thing can be bought by the public. Delta was a customer of mine and if I wanted to supply a part that went on a plane it would cost my company almost $500k (2004 dollars)just to be certified to be a supplier. I don't make any parts just resell them. People that make the parts much more. I would be willing to bet that there is not a whole lot different between l track used by airlines and ones for public consumption. Not saying they are the same just not much difference.

I have pieces of both and they are significantly different alloys. No comparison really, they only look similar. The airplane stuff is much lighter and harder. 6061 is way too weak and heavy for airliners generally.

Aqua Puttana
09-14-2013, 06:45 AM
My opinions and comments in no particular order.

Everyone knows that a crash puts a heck of a lot of stress on seats and restraints.

There are many factors which affect the stress on the track and fittings. Leverage, clamping strength, and friction are just some examples.

It is important that enough fasteners are installed to hold the seat fixtures to the track and to secure the track to the floor.

I don't believe that the OEM load rail L-tracks as factory designed/installed are up to the task of seat mounting without adding more track to frame/floor fasteners.

Aviation/aircraft parts and materials are held to different specifications as to manufacturing tolerance, design, weight, and strength as compared to vehicle components.

L-track type load rail is used in vehicles for load securement and seating. I recall that there are threads here which list the L-track for seats as used in the UK (Unwin as one example) so it can be done safely and meet standards. (I doubt that a DIY design/install would ever technically meet official standards though.)

This forum can offer opinions, methods, and criticism, but the final product is the total responsibility of the installer. There will never be concensus acheived here on the subject.

No matter how much design and documentation you have you will never be able to install a seat DIY that will technically, legally meet DOT specifications, or prevail in court should it fail. Don't even try to kid yourself.

An owner needs to decide whether the installation meets his/her standards while realizing that the seat installation may cause your vehicle to not pass a stringent regulatory safety inspection.

There are many, many previous discussions here on the forum about aftermarket and DIY seat installations.

:2cents: vic