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Bigdaddydaveh
09-04-2013, 12:22 PM
Here's an odd one with our 2004 2500 Sprinter. Occasionally (seems to occur when warm) it won't start. When turning the key to the accessory position there is no hum from the fuel pump and the aux fan on the radiator goes on. No glow plug indicator light on the dash either. Return the key to the off position and try again; sometimes the same thing, sometimes it returns to normal (fuel pump prime buzz and glow plug light shows up like normal; shuts off when ready to turn over). This does not happen all the time and a few times the wife reports it stalls when backing down our driveway (down hill) immediately after the start fail cycle.

I've searched and found similar issues with the start cycle and need to know where to start diagnosing the problem. No one else has mentioned the stalling issue. I've read ground wire issues could be the cause but need to know exactly which ground wire I should be looking at. The only ground off the battery seems to be the main one (maybe 8" long) to the fire wall just behind the battery. The terminals and battery post are tight and free from corrosion. Is there another ground cable under the dash or in the engine wire harness I need to be looking at? Coolant sensor seems to be another possibility or the ECM (ouch!)

A.Hayes
09-04-2013, 03:39 PM
Aux fan running when the key is turned seems to be an indicator of an ECM problem. A couple of recent threads:

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25823

and

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26867&highlight=skreem

The first one continues in another thread that I can't find at the moment, but ended up being a faulty ECM, which was sent to SOS diagnostics in Oregon for replacement/reprogramming... certainly a more reasonable option than the dealer $$$.

Good luck.

Bigdaddydaveh
09-05-2013, 11:15 PM
As luck would have it, our very own Wayne Rodd is going to be driving past my town this weekend and has agreed to swing by on his way home to Toledo and check it out for me with his DADIII and if possible get the ECM replaced or get the issue fixed. He rebuilt our engine for us last year and has been a great resource for repair and advice.:bow: Hopefully this has thrown some codes and we can confirm the source of the problem.

surlyoldbill
09-06-2013, 01:29 AM
I've read here that "wiggling" the ECU relay on the steering column fuse box will sometimes allow you to start. Try it next time it acts up.

Bigdaddydaveh
09-06-2013, 12:10 PM
I've tried that and it doesn't seem to do anything. I have even pulled the whole fuse panel, opened the case, and cleaned/checked all the contacts for corrosion. The inside is just a layered maze of stamped metal circuit runs, no actual wires. It's kinda cool looking. I should have taken photos. I even cleaned up the pins on the relays and connectors and no change.

LuckyDawgz Jim
09-06-2013, 01:37 PM
Had the exact same issue and it did turn out to be the steering column mounded fuse panel. (approx $100 with fuses and relays from dealer)

If you have the time, remove the fuse panel again and re-solder those problematic spots that feed the relays. (there is a thread with the details)

I just recently replaced all 3 of the relays for that very same fuse panel, as I had a dead flasher and also intermittent wiper issues.
Oddly the 2 relays that did not work correctly in the flasher or wiper positions did seem to work OK in the ECU spot.
Bench testing (w/no load) did not show any difference between any of them,good or bad.
I had been keep the old relays from my original panel believing they had tested OK... they were NG!
I need to find an accurate way to test/certify them.

The latest "sub" part number for any of those micro relays is: A-003-542-02-19
$15 list price from Freightliner
They are black instead of grey and are marked "made in Portugal"

Bigdaddydaveh
09-06-2013, 02:33 PM
I'll have to look at that again tonight.

Bigdaddydaveh
09-07-2013, 11:18 PM
does anyone off hand know which relay of the three is the ECU? It did the false start thing again tonight and after it did start, I jiggled the middle one and the whole thing died. I swapped that middle one with the one on the far right and it fired right up. Then the turn signals would not work. HMMM If this is just a simple bad relay I'm gonna be so happy and yet so ticked off that I didn't think of that before.

Aqua Puttana
09-07-2013, 11:36 PM
does anyone off hand know which relay of the three is the ECU? ...
On the T1N it is the M relay. vic

54444

LuckyDawgz Jim
09-08-2013, 05:25 AM
does anyone off hand know which relay of the three is the ECU? It did the false start thing again tonight and after it did start, I jiggled the middle one and the whole thing died. I swapped that middle one with the one on the far right and it fired right up. Then the turn signals would not work. HMMM If this is just a simple bad relay I'm gonna be so happy and yet so ticked off that I didn't think of that before.

As AP showed, the middle one is the ECU, wiper is on the left-turn signal/flashers is on the right.

Get yourself 3 of the new style relays, be sure to pitch the old ones... then re-solder all of those relay connections on the fuse box.

Bigdaddydaveh
09-09-2013, 11:09 AM
Well, it turns out it was the relay. Switched them around and the turn signal stopped working and then the wipers stopped working when the relay in question was hot. Wayne was gracious enough to leave some parts with me in case it turns out to not be the fuse but we are pretty confident. My AC that has been acting up all summer now seems to be working as well. Not sure if that's related or not but it was an added bonus for sure.

LuckyDawgz Jim
09-09-2013, 03:14 PM
Nice!

When you have spare time, re-solder those know problematic fuse box connections.
You don't need them acting up... on the worst day possible.

Thanks for the update.

jim

surlyoldbill
09-09-2013, 03:48 PM
It sounds like it may be a GOOD IDEA to buy a spare relay and have it on hand for those of us who haven't had the issue yet. I think they're inexpensive.

smlmgd
09-09-2013, 08:04 PM
On the T1N it is the M relay. vic

54444

Thanx Aqua, this is an excellent layout of the steering-column fuse-box. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Keep well,
Mac.

LuckyDawgz Jim
09-09-2013, 09:02 PM
It sounds like it may be a GOOD IDEA to buy a spare relay and have it on hand for those of us who haven't had the issue yet. I think they're inexpensive.



The latest "sub" part number for any of those (3) micro relays at the bottom of the steering column fuse box is:
A-003-542-02-19
$15 list price from Freightliner.

They are also used on that relay panel hidden under the driver's seat.