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View Full Version : Turbo removal - please help


rebelyell
08-27-2013, 01:35 PM
Okay, I attached the factory service manual for removing the turbo. But the clamp in step 7, (which is number one of the second picture on that page or, directly right of step 7) DOES NOT EXIST!

There's no clamp. The down-pipe is one long ass piece all the way to the trans cross-member and short of removing the damn transmission, there's no possible way of removing it.

Anyone that has ever done this, please help me, please... before I snap and go crazy...

I spent over 10 hours already trying to remove the turbo. I'm so angry that the service manual tells me there's a clamp where there isn't. And that some retard a-hole Mercedes engineer thought it would be a good idea to make the down-pipe one huge ass irremovable piece of crap.

Thanks in advance!

sailquik
08-27-2013, 02:27 PM
Ummm..... is there a reason that you need to remove the turbocharger?
Mercedes/Garrett VNT turbochargers are extremely reliable so unless you had something
explode inside your engine, that took out the hot/drive slide bucket wheel blading, there is
probably nothing wrong with your Turbocharger if you have < 500k miles on your Sprinter.
Also, is this a T1N (I-5 2.7 liter OM-612 '02-'03/OM-647 '04-'06 Sprinter) or an NCV3 (V6 3.0 liter OM-642 '07 and later)?
Are you replacing the turbo because you have no boost or your boost is low?
Can you visually see that the turbo rotor is rubbing on something or has rubbed on something so there's
damage to the blading?
What?
Roger

rebelyell
08-27-2013, 03:04 PM
To access the swirl valve.

2007 sprinter. 3.0L diesel

rebelyell
08-27-2013, 03:06 PM
I read some write-ups where people don't pull the turbo and use glue and small tools. I'm not going down that road. Theres also oil everywhere, so I want to pull everything off and make sure everything is right. I may have to change the intake manifolds too, won't know until I get this darn turbo out.

But no, there is nothing wrong with the turbo...

Aqua Puttana
08-27-2013, 03:37 PM
To access the swirl valve.

2007 sprinter. 3.0L diesel
Ah, the dreaded swirl valves. I know nothing about them other than what I've learned on the internet.

A Canadian sailing friend of mine towed with a jeep which had a MB diesel and swirl valve issues at fairly low mileage. When I responded to his swirl valve comment his wife said, "You know about those? Most people think we're kidding." He was quoted $5,000.00 for the repairs. He traded it in. He loved the torque and fuel economy of the diesel, but his replacement is a gasser.

Back to topic, kinda...

From what I've gleaned from the internet the swirl valve problems often relate to the mechanism getting bound up by soot or deposits. When the mechanical parts bind up some of the (plastic?) parts fail to work properly. I've wondered whether a DIY PM/repair would be to somehow thread a pipe or tube into the area of the swirl valves so that a hose could be used to occasionally inject some cleaner in the general area of the valves. The idea is to prevent the deposits from building up too much. I have no idea whether the idea is even a possibility for either access or effectiveness of the cleaner.

As it seems that you plan to do quite a bit of disassembly it would be great if you could take some pictures of what you do and what you find.

Sorry I can't help with the turbo question. vic

rebelyell
08-27-2013, 03:47 PM
The old 5 bangers are so easy to work on... IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

These v6s... I HATE them... They're a damn nightmare. We have 2 07 sprinters in our fleet, the other one had the swirl valve fail while under warrantee... This one failed just recently. It drives fine, and I would care less if it worked or not. But it triggers the CEL, and the vehicle is used as a school vehicle, and it will fail inspection for that. I have a week to get this done before school starts back up. It already kept me at work 3 hours late yesterday. I am extremely frustrated with this german engineered POS. I can't understand why they do moronic crap like this. It seriously blows my mind.

rebelyell
08-27-2013, 04:03 PM
Okay... I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that I'm going to have to pull the tranny to do this... I hate this van... I'll take pictures..

Any tips will be greatly appreciated..

Aqua Puttana
08-27-2013, 04:07 PM
...
Any tips will be greatly appreciated..
Sawzall. Reconnect with a sleeve?

The better suggestion might be to call Doktor A. vic

rebelyell
08-27-2013, 06:40 PM
Sawzall. Reconnect with a sleeve?

The better suggestion might be to call Doktor A. vic

lol... Hope that was a joke...

Aqua Puttana
08-27-2013, 07:33 PM
lol... Hope that was a joke...

There are some potential pitfalls for any transmission R&R.

And I thought that people here knew me.

Aqua Puttana's Cheap Tricks - Nothin' Fancy Here
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4827

Specifically this post. When funds are low one needs to be creative. Given the repair/parts costs I probably shouldn't own a Sprinter.

Muffler Exhaust Pipe Repair
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128492#post128492

Still think that I was kidding now?

That said, given enough straight pipe a welded sleeve can make a proper repair.

Doktor A will have better suggestions. vic

rebelyell
08-27-2013, 09:10 PM
Theres no way to get a sawzaw in there, and no part of the pipe is straight or long enough to do that.

And its a school bus and NJ is very anal when it comes to inspections.

Took an hour and a half to pull the trans, after that was done it took 30 minutes to pull the turbo and another 30 minutes to get down to the intake manifolds. I should have just done this from the beginning.

I didn't mean to insult you, I just prefer to do things the right way. Money is not an issue here. I'm a lead tech at a school bus company... I'm not allowed to be cheap or take short-cuts...

Aqua Puttana
08-27-2013, 09:47 PM
Theres no way to get a sawzaw in there, and no part of the pipe is straight or long enough to do that.

And its a school bus and NJ is very anal when it comes to inspections.

Took an hour and a half to pull the trans, after that was done it took 30 minutes to pull the turbo and another 30 minutes to get down to the intake manifolds. I should have just done this from the beginning.

I didn't mean to insult you, I just prefer to do things the right way. Money is not an issue here. I'm a lead tech at a school bus company... I'm not allowed to be cheap or take short-cuts...
No problem. Commercial vehicles have rules, school buses have even more rules. What you just outlined would probably take me an entire W/E working in front of my garage.

So once it was apart did you discover a way to remove the turbo without needing to drop the transmission? Seems like a bunch of work if all that someone needed to do is replace the turbo.

Have fun. vic

CJPJ
08-27-2013, 09:53 PM
The better suggestion might be to call Doktor A.

I didn't mean to insult you, I just prefer to do things the right way.. I'm a lead tech at a school bus company... I'm not allowed to be cheap or take short-cuts... If you had known about Andy Bittenbinder you would have skipped the Sprinter-Forum! - aka "Doktor A" 412-366-6165.


but please keep us informed of your progress!

rebelyell
08-28-2013, 02:18 PM
I could have blindly taken the turbo out, but I would have to blindly re-install it. There's no way to remove the down-pipe or turbo without dropping the trans.

And I know Andy, he helped me out with a problem I was having on an 06 5cyl sprinter.

manwithgun
08-28-2013, 02:38 PM
Anyone that has ever done this, please help me, please... before I snap and go crazy...

I spent over 10 hours already trying to remove the turbo. I'm so angry that the service manual tells me there's a clamp where there isn't. And that some retard a-hole Mercedes engineer thought it would be a good idea to make the down-pipe one huge ass irremovable piece of crap.

Thanks in advance!

I feel horrible that I have not yet been able to set aside the time to post my trial and error approach to this same procedure. I tackled this job a couple of months ago, cleaning the intake tract, intake ports, manifold, egr cooler, freeing swirl valves, and replacing the pcv oil separator. No parts were replaced, just spent around $300 in seals and gaskets, a boat load of patience, and a ****-ton of curse words... Still don't have the time to do a proper write-up but I'll post some pics that may explain themselves. Hopefully others can fill in the blanks.

For starters, the swirl valve fault is either a bad servo or stuck flaps. I managed to disconnect the servo from the linkage to confirm that the valves were stuck. Common cause of this is a bad oil separator which allows an abundance of atomized oil from the PCV system to be pulled through the vacuum side of the intake, then turbo, then charge air tract where it blends with EGR gasses/particulate, and forms a sludge that collects in the intake manifold and causes problems. As bad as the build-up looks, it was not physically preventing the flaps from moving. On mine, it was 2 of the plastic pivot points that had actually seized (to clarify, I am not speaking the white retaining clips in the pics. These were removed to allow some up/down movement to free up the seized pivot). Disconnecting the linkage allows you to address each valve individually but with your situation, complete manifold replacement is probably advised, and the RIGHT manifold actually includes the servo motor. Unfortunately, my budget does not allow for this approach.

http://europarts-sd.com/item.asp?PID=1975

My situation was so bad that I also cleaned the intake ports above the valve seats. I did this by making sure that he valve was closed, scraping off the build-up, then blowing the chamber clear with an air hose. I then soaked each chamber with Sea Foam, agitated with an acid brush, drew out the solvent with a syringe, then blew it clear again with air. Thanks to Dennis for the advise!

Another tip from Dennis of Linden Engineering is to leave the fuel filter ring mount attached and remove/install both manifolds together as one. Here are some pics of my endeavor. A proper write-up one of these days. gotta run! -Jim

manwithgun
08-28-2013, 02:39 PM
More Pics...

suzieque
08-28-2013, 03:05 PM
what I find most helpful with manwithgun pictures is those CRD owners that insist the flow of oil and EGR gas into the intake manifold is perfectly fine and no cause for concern.

Like clogged arteries in your chest ready to cause a heart attack, the oil and soot clogged intake manifold is building up over time to eventually cause a swirl motor or swirl valve failure. And yes, Manwithgun has a tear in his CCV valve that accelerated the oil going into the intake manifold.

Aqua Puttana
08-28-2013, 03:07 PM
... Common cause of this is a bad oil separator which allows an abundance of atomized oil from the PCV system to be pulled through the vacuum side of the intake, then turbo, then charge air tract where it blends with EGR gasses/particulate, and forms a sludge that collects in the intake manifold and causes problems. ... -Jim
Thanks very much for the information and pictures. :thumbup:

Does anyone have any input whether the oil separator is something which is easily removed for periodic cleaning or replacement? Would doing that help an owner to avoid a swirl valve failure? vic

manwithgun
08-28-2013, 03:13 PM
I could have blindly taken the turbo out, but I would have to blindly re-install it. There's no way to remove the down-pipe or turbo without dropping the trans.

And I know Andy, he helped me out with a problem I was having on an 06 5cyl sprinter.

I managed to get mine out with 95% being done from above. Only had to remove the egr tube and exhaust mount from below. DO NOT skimp on tools as a cheapo e-torx socket will potentially ruin yer day. Best tip I've got is to tape a trash bag onto the hood liner and firewall as you will get intimate with these and they'll have you itching from the fibers they give off...

This is my first diesel and the work that I've done was only out of necessity but I'll PM you my number just incase. Might be the blind leading the blind but I'd rather quote Tom Waits with " in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king..."

manwithgun
08-28-2013, 03:27 PM
Thanks very much for the information and pictures. :thumbup:

Does anyone have any input whether the oil separator is something which is easily removed for cleaning or replacement? Would doing that help an owner to avoid a swirl valve failure? vic

It takes 10 minutes and costs less that $100. There are three E8 torx bolts that hold it on and it's located near the passenger side firewall. just follow the tube back from the junction. This also brings the elephant hose mod into play but that is a different can of worms. To contribute to the current thread, here are some gaskets and the oil separator bag, tho I believe there are several different part #s...

Aqua Puttana
08-28-2013, 03:39 PM
68048205AA

VALVE. PCV. .
Pressure Control Valve-ZJ9.

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/products/VALVE-PCV-Pressure-Control-Valve-ZJ9/4417271/68048205AA.html

rebelyell
08-29-2013, 02:51 PM
The PCV was blowing oil into the intake... And I had some luck in that the swirl valves move freely with no free-play. PCV is getting replaced along with the swirl actuator and that should be all it needs. I'm contemplating pulling the intakes off to clean them...

manwithgun
08-29-2013, 03:39 PM
When you change the swirl actuator, you may also want to replace the clips that snap around the ball joint if you damaged them during removal. Don't have time to find the MB # but it's #5 in this diagram.

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=551566

And if you want more info, the Jeep guys kick the ball around for 24 pages.....

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/crd-swirl-motor-project-thread-1176742/

Aqua Puttana
08-29-2013, 04:33 PM
...
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/crd-swirl-motor-project-thread-1176742/
Thanks for the link.

Is the "elephant trunk" a newer/re-designed variation of an older OEM part or just a nickname? vic

Trayscott
08-29-2013, 04:48 PM
What does the swirl motor do guys? Have searched without much luck. Also what prompted you to get to removing all this. I have oil in the intercooler hoses but I hear that is somewhat normal but how much. Have a 2008 running fine, just short of 175000 miles.

PLUMMER
08-29-2013, 05:03 PM
Also looking for info on proper amount of oil that should be found in the mouth of the turbo, or PCV valve and or inter cooler and hoses. I know how long it takes for my egr system to clog up, but have yet to learn about the oil in the intake. My turbo intake will have a very small 1/8" wide line of oil at the bottom. PCV has been quit soaked but I might only get a few to a dozen drips out of it while its out for 30 minutes on the bench. Inter cooler and hoses will leave a 4-6" puddle from drips, but it doesn't run out. Everything else seems to just have a nice oil film on it from turbo intake thru to EGR. IM KINDA WONDERING IF my intake looks as bad as my egr and cooler. I guess it's time to see if my small cam will see far enuff to the first valves.

I just went over 100k miles and have noticed larger fuel Milage drops then a good hard run during a regen one time I kept it over 3200 rpm and my Milage jumped back up a little better than it was before. I'm currently back down in the mid teens and only resetting will bring it back for a while

suzieque
08-29-2013, 09:13 PM
you could try and get an inspection camera past the throttle valve, to the intake. I was not able to last time I pulled out my intercooler. I had come up with an estimate of the amount of oil being sucked into the air intake tube, for those people that do not have a catch can. I can dig up the estimates if you want.

manwithgun
08-30-2013, 02:41 AM
what I find most helpful with manwithgun pictures is those CRD owners that insist the flow of oil and EGR gas into the intake manifold is perfectly fine and no cause for concern.

Like clogged arteries in your chest ready to cause a heart attack, the oil and soot clogged intake manifold is building up over time to eventually cause a swirl motor or swirl valve failure. And yes, Manwithgun has a tear in his CCV valve that accelerated the oil going into the intake manifold.

In response to this, I have no idea what the intakes of a properly running CRD look like after, say, 100k miles. I bought my high mileage sprinter in limp mode with no history and later discovered that it was consuming 1 quart of oil per 100 miles, much more than could normally pass through a faulty pcv oil separator... For how long and with what type of oil spec, I have no idea, but I figure my case to be on the extreme side. You've got to figure that with that much oil going through combustion, the egr gasses were probably more foul than normal. If this type of congestion is considered 'normal' then there is a BG intake cleaning process that should be added to the routine maintenance schedule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w4ABTo42tKA

There is a bit of discussion about it in my thread here-
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26451

manwithgun
08-30-2013, 03:04 AM
Thanks for the link.

Is the "elephant trunk" a newer/re-designed variation of an older OEM part or just a nickname? vic

The elephant hose mod, EHM, is when they place a plug in the main turbo intake hose where the pcv hose normally connects to allow only fresh air into the turbo and intake tract. A large 1" heater hose is then spliced on to the pcv vent hose and run in a large, unkinked, unrestricted radius to somewhere beneath the engine where it vents to atmosphere. This is an attempt to keep the oily air out of the system. Some add a secondary oil separator to the original vent hose and keep the stock routing while others have connected the hose to the air filter box. Of course, you no longer have that static vacuum being pulled on the crankcase and a kink in the hose could possibly lead to a blown seal among other things in theory.

Trayscott
08-30-2013, 03:09 AM
In response to this, I have no idea what the intakes of a properly running CRD look like after, say, 100k miles. I bought my high mileage sprinter in limp mode with no history and later discovered that it was consuming 1 quart of oil per 100 miles, much more than could normally pass through a faulty pcv oil separator... For how long and with what type of oil spec, I have no idea, but I figure my case to be on the extreme side. You've got to figure that with that much oil going through combustion, the egr gasses were probably more foul than normal. If this type of congestion is considered 'normal' then there is a BG intake cleaning process that should be added to the routine maintenance schedule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w4ABTo42tKA

There is a bit of discussion about it in my thread here-
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26451

Any update on your oil consumption issue..Thanks. Very interesting reading. Found out what "Swirl valves" are, aka butterflys in the US auto world.

PLUMMER
08-30-2013, 04:53 PM
In 10k oil change intervals, my 07 consumes 1.3-1.7 quarts, and has since new when using Mobil 1ESP. I did have a Quaker state version for a cycle from the dodge dealer. It consumed almost 4 quarts and I went back to Mobil from then on. That is also when a lot of my issues started as well. Turbo, EGR, glow plugs. I never go by what they say they put in, so I always ask for an extra quart or two on the seat to verify what they actually put in. No worries at the Hoekstra dealer and that's where I been going since. $160-176 and all the other inspections and computer resets.

jgventura
09-03-2014, 08:07 PM
I've done numerous swirl valves (actually the root cause is the intake manifold flaps, but new manifolds come with a new SV), and i have done it with and without removing trans. The last one i did about a month and a half ago I did NOT remove trans, honestly was too lazy and didn't feel up to it, not that it's difficult. The only pain is removing the collector off the back of the turbo and the rear exhaust pipe. Other than that, it's just a long, methodical process. I tell the service office 40 hours, we are a fleet so they are our own vehicles (which i can do it in aprx. half that time and use the rest of it to relax). A lot of people seem to believe the swirl valves are the issues when infact it's coding because the flappers on the manifolds are so severely caboned up they are seized solid. I think i have the ones in the shop that i removed recently, i'll take a vid or pics to show. When I do this job, i also r&r all glow plus with copper never seize. any questions, please ask!

dmitry4387
01-08-2015, 05:41 AM
No need for transmission removal for sure. Just careful work around. Two bolts 2mm from each other on back of turbo needs to be removed with long extension from underneath. Other than that everything from top. two people a must as one can be an eyes of others hands.

Turbone
09-23-2015, 06:09 AM
I'm in the process of removing the turbo on one of our shop vehicles, a 09 3500. The compressor wheel broke in half and the shaft snapped :wtf:
Truck only has 120k on it too.
I have no shop manual, but have turned a wrench for many years and replaced/upgraded turbos on performance gassers.
This removal has got to be the worst I have EVER encountered, friggin german engineering :bash:
I've got about 10hrs into it and all I have left is the downpipe. Had all the bolts removed from the headers etc and discovered I cant lift it out because it hangs on the downpipe :rolleyes:
I'm worried about the cause of the failure, we have 4 other Sprinters with higher mileage and have had zero problems with the turbo itself (lots of intake pipe cracks).
So, any input on this failure?

1109
09-23-2015, 11:53 AM
Okay, I attached the factory service manual for removing the turbo. But the clamp in step 7, (which is number one of the second picture on that page or, directly right of step 7) DOES NOT EXIST!

There's no clamp. The down-pipe is one long ass piece all the way to the trans cross-member and short of removing the damn transmission, there's no possible way of removing it.

Anyone that has ever done this, please help me, please... before I snap and go crazy...

I spent over 10 hours already trying to remove the turbo. I'm so angry that the service manual tells me there's a clamp where there isn't. And that some retard a-hole Mercedes engineer thought it would be a good idea to make the down-pipe one huge ass irremovable piece of crap.

Thanks in advance!

Wonder what year your manual is for. Because I just checked on my 2011 and the clamp is there and very visible. Might need a 5 year old to get in there but its there. Good luck
Mike

Turbone
09-23-2015, 12:23 PM
Wonder what year your manual is for. Because I just checked on my 2011 and the clamp is there and very visible. Might need a 5 year old to get in there but its there. Good luck
Mike

He did the job 2yrs ago, so I imagine its all a bad memory for him now.

SprinterHelp
01-30-2017, 02:32 AM
Just removed turbo took a month, but about an hour turning wrench. Read forums X10, saw nice utube turbo removal 3.0 video, soaked bolts for weeks. Only one had to be heated, all bolts accessible easily from top, must undue down tube hanger bolt (s) to catalyst, all bolts easy access. Very fast easy job as long as all your bolts cooporate. I will let bolt soak overnight if it feels finicky, y manifold to exhaust bolts all POPPED or had a sound like removing a tight lug nut when letting loose. In a happy world with new bolts I see removing the turbo once all ancillary parts removed is a half hour to someone who knows how, as well as actuator change out at 40 minutes already done. We see in the next day about the oil cooler. My only concern is dirt, need to clean vacum area first. Maybe steam clean area. You need like in video a swivel head..offset handle, works well for a few of the hard to get bolts, a rocker socket adapter, a shorty socket wrench and other 3 inch 6 inch extensions. Once you understand from the video or pics of assembly its really straight forward. Depending on sockets, low profile, I found one bolt a 1 inch extension would be nice.